82210 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

jtav wrote...

ME2 did a great job bringing out my inner misanthrope. I simply don't like ME humanity that much.

Undestood. I think it was related to the Alliance and the take over of the Normandy.

Ieldra2 wrote...

@hhh89:
It's not just that. Some of us
here don't like the way humans are portrayed in the games so far. We
have almost no decent humans who aren't on Shepard's team or ship. After
meeting Delan on Horizon, I was beginning to ask myself if humanity is
worth saving. Then consider how the Alliance treated Shepard after the
battle of the Citadel, how they treated Shepard after Arrival. And the
whole "humans are special" thing with no grounding whatsoever is
annoying to start with.

Basically, the matter is that the games
*tell* us that humans are SOOO special (last instance: exchange with
Harbinger in Arrival) while *showing* us mostly idiots and jerks. I have
a pro-human Shepard as my main Shepard, but even he wishes that he
could selectively kill the idiots on Earth.

I don't like the "humans are so special" neither, but this is related to the genetic code, not to humans intelligence.
Every species has idiots (and to be honest, every species so far has more idiots than decent guys), though I agree on the fact that there aren't a lot of decent humans outside Shep's team (the exceptions in my opinion are Anderson and Hackett, plus TIM).

I'm not saying that you and jtav are wrong, but if I have to consider how ME-ME2 portrayed most of the organics, I'd say that the Reapers are right to their intent to annihilate them, since most  of them are portrayed as idiots/jerks.

[The Elder King]

Ieldra2 wrote...



Edit:
At least in ME1, we could talk with a few normal people who were neither enemies or on your side. People like that guy in the Wards under the stairway down from the med clinic. And ME1 had Kate Bowman. ME2....no such thing and the "humans are special" agenda was pushed even more. I hate that exchange with Harbinger "That's what humans do". Bah. 

Agreed. Especially about Kate Bowman. My favourite female character in ME and my second favourite character in ME.

[jtav]

My MaleShep will be doing pretty much what Miranda asks of him. She is his motivation at this point.

This is also a rather ruthless playthrough. Would you guys leave Samara nd Thane unrecruited or kill them? I've reached the point where I want the part of the game that isn't the romance to be over.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
If one of the new ones is a human female with an operative-like background, I'll resent her just as much, but otherwise new team members, by definition, can't get the preferential treatment of Garrus and Tali. No one can, because no one else was there for two whole games before ME3.

Yeah but in that case wouldn't you also be thinking "wow instead of bringing Miranda back they created this assclown? I know I would.

Yes, I would. But I would give her a chance. She'd never replace Miranda but she may turn out awesome in her own right. On the other hand, if Garrus or Tali take a main character slot from Miranda, they're dead.

@jtav:
I'm a completionist, I never leave anyone unrecruited unless that would spoil my plans for the SM, and that's pretty much limited to Zaeed. That's just me, but you'll also lose out on a lot of upgrades and P/R points. And third, if you *really* don't want them in ME3 you'll have to kill them.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 octobre 2011 - 09:28 .

[jtav]

Well, it's more indifference and the realization that I won't get any more good Miranda moments or screenshots until the IFF outside the romance and everything else feels like marking time.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, I would. But I would give her a chance. She'd never replace Miranda but she may turn out awesome in her own right. On the other hand, if Garrus or Tali take a main character slot from Miranda, they're dead.

Until she does, she can go choke as can any character that usurps Miranda's position. The only difference is for me, Garrus and especially Tali have merit in their own right.

Also regarding your point on humanity's portrayal in ME- it's not really any different from how everyone says quarians are thieves, cheats and general ****s but we never see a single quarian criminal- so I guess it's reversed for them.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 21 octobre 2011 - 09:49 .

[jtav]

I think that's the difference. We're indifferent to/hate Team Dextro--I only like Garrus when I romance him--and Miranda's absence intensifies those feelings.

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Also regarding your point on humanity's portrayal in ME- it's not really any different from how everyone says quarians are thieves, cheats and general ****s but we never see a single quarian criminal- so I guess it's reversed for them.

Golo, Mass Effect: Ascension.

[The Elder King]

jtav wrote...

I think that's the difference. We're indifferent to/hate Team Dextro--I only like Garrus when I romance him--and Miranda's absence intensifies those feelings.

How can you romance Garrus if you don't like him?

[jtav]

Because the romance hits a lot of things I enjoy.

[CrutchCricket]

hhh89 wrote...
How can you romance Garrus if you don't like him?

Very carefully.

Sorry couldn't resist.

JB- haven't read any ME stuff outside the games. Still 1 quarian in EU no less isn't enough to disprove the point.

[The Elder King]

jtav wrote...

Because the romance hits a lot of things I enjoy.

Fair enough.

CrutchCricket wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
How can you romance Garrus if you don't like him?

Very carefully.

Sorry couldn't resist.

JB- haven't read any ME stuff outside the games. Still 1 quarian in EU no less isn't enough to disprove the point.

In truth, Rael' Zorah is technically a criminal for the Flotilla, since if you give the proof to the Admirals, he's appointed as a criminal and exiled post mortem.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
 The tangent I went off on was from something I read on Vega and how he was there for new players.

That is how Vega has been described, yes. Not as "worldy" as many of the other characters, and intended to represent players who are new to the series. Meaning I guess that he will be the one who doesn't know who the returning characters are, doesn't know what is going on with the Reapers and Protheans, etc., thus becoming a source of helpful exposition and a sort of comforting confusion that new players may relate to.

It's an interesting concept, and probably pretty telling as far as the overall design of the game is concerned (lots of returning characters in prominent roles).

We already know that is true, of course, regardless of what is done with Miranda.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 02:26 .

[who would know]

Image by Freakshow6.

Love it. What a refreshing style.

[Dr. Doctor]

 Vega seems like an attempt at creating a character that succedes where Jacob failed. Take one standard-issue Alliance grunt, give him a background comic instead of a crappy iPhone game, give him a comic that references some vague ghost of the past that haunts him (story fodder for when Shepard talks to him) and shows that he can be a badass. Then throw him in to ME3.

On the subject of Miranda, what do you suppose Cerberus agents do when they're not engaged in their employment? Although she does strike me as a workaholic I wonder if Miranda has a place of her own that she goes to when TIM doesn't have her on assignment?

[jtav]

So, I want to talk about Miranda's LOTSB dossier.

No, wait! Come back, it's not what you think!

Miranda is described as "ruthless, efficient, obsessed with human dominance." Now, in every other case, I'd class the SB's observations as cynical yet accurate. But here, I'm not so sure. She never struck me as obsessed with human dominance. Her real obsession seems to be pushing both humanity and herself to the limit. So how are we to take the flavor text here?

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
So how are we to take the flavor text here?

Hard to say. The SB dossier is really mystifying in a lot of ways. Partly because it contain so much new info, when compared to the other dossiers, and partly because a lot of it doesn't really chime with what we see in the rest of the game.

The line about human dominance has always struck me as extremely odd. It doesn't fit with Miranda's personality elsewhere, where she seems committed to human advancement (that's the term she uses). Even that committment hardly comes across as an obsession.

It doesn't even fit with the rest of the dossier tbh, since elsewhere in the dossier she's putting down her journal on biotics in favor of a book on relationships or whatever. Wierd.

@who would know, very nice, thanks for posting.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 03:29 .

[MisterJB]

flemm wrote...
It doesn't even fit with the rest of the dossier tbh, since elsewhere in the dossier she's putting down her journal on biotics in favor of a book on relationships or whatever. Wierd.

Oh boy...here we go again.
Also, it was a Fashion magazine. She did buy a book on relationships though, which I maintain should have been romance exclusive.

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...
Oh boy...here we go again.

Oups

[jtav]

Would it be arrogant to say the writer of the LOTSB doissier (Jay Turner, I believe, definitely not Weekes) didn't get her character? It's just such a complete mess, even without the infertility. Game!Miranda was abrasive but definitely socially functional. The dossier!Miranda has social skills about on Legion's level. Even Oriana reads wrong, closer to sixteen than nineteen.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Would it be arrogant to say the writer of the LOTSB doissier (Jay Turner, I believe, definitely not Weekes) didn't get her character? It's just such a complete mess, even without the infertility. Game!Miranda was abrasive but definitely socially functional. The dossier!Miranda has social skills about on Legion's level. Even Oriana reads wrong, closer to sixteen than nineteen.

Well, yeah, I think that is a real possibility. It wouldn't really matter if the info recorded there is particularly accurate or true to character, since the writers are obligated to follow exactly none of it in ME3. The SB could just turn out to be misinformed, perhaps deliberately so, either by Miranda or TIM. Or they could just ignore it and let us sort out wtf happened.

[Dr. Doctor]

jtav wrote...

So, I want to talk about Miranda's LOTSB dossier.

No, wait! Come back, it's not what you think!

Miranda is described as "ruthless, efficient, obsessed with human dominance." Now, in every other case, I'd class the SB's observations as cynical yet accurate. But here, I'm not so sure. She never struck me as obsessed with human dominance. Her real obsession seems to be pushing both humanity and herself to the limit. So how are we to take the flavor text here?

Consider the fact that the Shadow Broker is writing only from what his agents have observed, while we know how Miranda views Cerberus' goals the only time that she brings up that interpretation is when Shepard asks. It doesn't seem to far of a stretch to assume that TIM's top agent would be devoted to the organization's cause and the SB seems to be going off of the 'Cerberus as Evil' version of things.

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 22 octobre 2011 - 03:43 .

[jtav]

I'm hoping it's reduced to barebones "Miranda wants a child but can't conceive and is trying to build a relationship with her sister." Because she can read people. Her own feelings may scare the crap out of her, but she reads and handles Shepard just fine. If the dossier were literal, I'd wonder if she had a personality disorder or a cartoon version of Asperger's.

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...
Also, it was a Fashion magazine.

I stand corrected. Still, not exactly preferred reading material for those obsessed with human dominance, unless she is concerned with the asari stranglehold on galactic haute couture...

[MisterJB]

The only complaint I have about the dossier is that the combination of these three things:


Subscription Activated: After Dark Fashions
Vid Book Purchased: "Men are from Omega, Women are from Illium."
While we cannot firmly attribute the cause of the benign neoplasm to the irregularity in your genetic makeup, we can confirm that the progressive damage renders you unable to conceive a child.
Makes me really uncomfortable.