82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

Hmmm, looks like somebody's about to get blowed up real good...

Ieldra2 wrote...

(Decided I'd quote the image for the top of the page.)

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 04:08 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Here's another old favorite you don't usually get with Miranda in her loyalty outfit. Which version do you like better:




And...pardon me, but...

Who could ever say no to Eyes and a Face SO DAMN Beautiful:wub:?!

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 octobre 2011 - 04:52 .

[jtav]

Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

How can that be possible? The unintelligent psycho hates our Miri to the core.

[CrutchCricket]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

How can that be possible? The unintelligent psycho hates our Miri to the core.

Yes but she won't start **** with Shepard right there and enemies everywhere. Too risky. So she focuses her rage on her foes.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

Not really. I've always liked both characters, and they are actually fairly similar in a lot of respects, once you get past the superficial stuff. The idea that gets thrown around occasionally that they are actually sisters doesn't even strike me as all that far-fetched. Not saying it's true, just that I could see why that might occur to people as an idea.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:01 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

CrutchCricket wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

How can that be possible? The unintelligent psycho hates our Miri to the core.

Yes but she won't start **** with Shepard right there and enemies everywhere. Too risky. So she focuses her rage on her foes.

Damn right, or I would use a Renegade Interrupt to throw the psycho in the crowd, .......and then ignite my Cain, which is most definitely a mini-nuke, from far away with Miri at my side.

[Athayniel]

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

During my first playthrough Miranda and Jack were my go-to team, until I recruited Samara. Even so I still think Jack's and Miranda's powers synergise better than Miranda's and Samara's do, I just prefer Samara as a character to Jack.

[CrutchCricket]

On the dossier issue I really don't have any problems with it. I figure any inconsistencies between it and what we see in person can be attributed to three possible things:

Poor research/writing ingame- by this I mean whatever agent was assigned to investigate her was a chump or he didn't care about getting everything right. No doubt the Shadow Broker would only care about threat analysis or things that could be used against her if the situation called for it. Thus the agent only cared about this and not getting every intricacy of her character across. Agent might also have been biased in some way (Wilson?)

Dossier is only preliminary/ only a part of a full file: So the Shadow Broker is supposed to know everything about everyone in an entire galaxy. Are we really to believe he only has a chat log or two and a few emails on Miranda? Hardly. The thing we read was probably just a summary or "quick fact sheet", again intended to quickly provide threat analysis. This applies to all the dosiers we see (further example: SB can count TIM's cigarette intake but has bugger all info on him otherwise? Not likely.) Shepard could get access to the whole thing if he asked but we never get the chance to ask. It's possible there's volumes on Miranda's psych profile that could be dug up that are a little more accurate.

Dossier is outdated: This is pretty much how I reconciled the "dating" chat logs with the romanced Miranda. Basically the report may have been accurate when it was written however long ago but is no longer the case due to her character development. Dating logs actually support this as she wouldn't have "met suitors" while working on Lazarus so report is at least 2 years old.

*edit- On the magazine subscriptions: Why are they necessarily viewed together? The science journal could've been useless to whatever she needed it for (cancelling shows her practicality, removing something once it served its purpose or has no purpose), while the fashion magazine is a simple hobby. There's quite likely a simple explanation for each choice. Not everything is social commentary.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:24 .

[jtav]

And Jack isn't unintelligent. She's shrewd in her way, just uneducated due to her extreme abuse. I feel sorry for her and I hope she can heal a bit.

And another casualty bites the dust if I can get her loyalty back.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
The mere hint that Bioware might write Miranda to fit that stereotype sends jtav and me up the wall. In fact, I do not understand why it doesn't send more people up the wall.

I get why it would, but I think the evidence is pretty slim so far that we will see that. The dossier is just not coherent enough overall to make me think Miranda's personality will be completely reworked.

For example, the same dossier talks about how ruthless she is, and bent on human domination. Not that this part strikes me as 100% accurate either. It's just a very mixed bag overall.

Beyond that, the idea of Miranda giving up her career, so to speak, strikes me as particularly unlikely in a game like this. There's no quiet retirement option. Maybe in an epilogue at worst, I guess.

Well, Bioware has a history of avoiding that stereotype. So usually I wouldn't worry. But as I said elsewhere, the ME team seams to have a particularly conventional streak in things like this. MIranda's dossier is an excellent example of the sort of unthinking traditionalism creeping in. Plus, as that entry about the infertility shows, the awareness that they're writing a sci-fi universe appears to be only selectively present.

[naledgeborn]

This not a Jack hate thread. In fact she's my second favorite female character. And yes they make an excellent team. Jack's pull + Miranda's Warp. Miranda's Overload + Jack's Shockwave. Jack has insane cooldown with an innate biotic damage boost. Miranda has the squad buff that makes Jack less squishy. Very efficient squad.

And people who "hate" Jack as a character because of her confrontation with Miranda need to pull their heads out of their asses and like or dislike the character for what she is.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

On the dossier issue I really don't have any problems with it. I figure any inconsistencies between it and what we see in person can be attributed to three possible things:

Poor research/writing ingame- 

Agent might also have been biased in some way (Wilson?)

[...]

Dossier is only preliminary/ only a part of a full file:

[...]

Dossier is outdated:

[...']

I agree that all those are possible explanations for the inconsistencies, both within the dossier itself and between the dossier and the rest of the game. (Bolded part is an interesting thought, btw.)

I still don't really get what the point of any of it is, whereas with the other dossiers, it's pretty clear.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Well, Bioware has a history of avoiding that stereotype. So usually I wouldn't worry. But as I said elsewhere, the ME team seams to have a particularly conventional streak in things like this. MIranda's dossier is an excellent example of the sort of unthinking traditionalism creeping in. Plus, as that entry about the infertility shows, the awareness that they're writing a sci-fi universe appears to be only selectively present.

Well, we're going to have a lot to talk about in a few months, one way or another

I'm curious about many things regarding Miranda in ME3, of course, but what happens with the info in the dossier is certainly on the list.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:44 .

[Ieldra]

@CrutchCricket:
We've raised hell about the dossier here when it came out. And Mac Walters hinted that while the dossiers are canon (i.e. they really do exist in-universe and contain the information we see), it's possible the information is wrong.

Regarding the infertility, I'd rather have it reversed or circumvented by advanced reproductive technology than proven as "wrong information".

About the magazine subscriptions: of course there could be any number of in-game reasons for that. The problem is the image this particular combination conveys. Particulary since both are in the same part of the dossier.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:47 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Does anyone else find it weird that Miranda and Jack make a fantastic team? They are cleaning house on Thane's RM.

I noticed that in my last playthrough. Jack's almost as good as Jacob as complement to Miranda, she'd be on my team more often weren't Squad Incendiary Ammo way more useful than Squad Warp Ammo. Also I never figured out how to use Shockwave - it never appears to be that useful.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 Also I never figured out how to use Shockwave - it never appears to be that useful.

It's good against husks. That's about it, really, as far as I can tell. Not that I'm super pro or anything, far from it.

[jtav]

They are absolutely fantastic. And I can do Incendiary.

Do you still want my comments on the next romance scene? They shall probably be significantly less positive.

[Skullheart]

I never used Jack, even as compliment to Mitanda (the only time I selected Jack was in her LM): On insanity her powers are almost useless, I found Samara far better than her.

[naledgeborn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I noticed that in my last playthrough. Jack's almost as good as Jacob as complement to Miranda, she'd be on my team more often weren't Squad Incendiary Ammo way more useful than Squad Warp Ammo. Also I never figured out how to use Shockwave - it never appears to be that useful.

Put her in cover behind Shepard/Miranda/rest of the squad (with a pistol). Map Shockwave to hotkey. After biotic upgrades it becomes spamm-able. Good for staggering enemies and when defenses are stripped good for knocking them off the battlefield for automatic kills. 

Edit: I only play on insanity. Far from useless. Like many people claim.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:56 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Do you still want my comments on the next romance scene? They shall probably be significantly less positive.

Of course. It will be interesting to read. In that scene, there's only one line I have an issue with if you choose the right mix of upper and lower lines.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

naledgeborn wrote...

This not a Jack hate thread. In fact she's my second favorite female character. And yes they make an excellent team. Jack's pull + Miranda's Warp. Miranda's Overload + Jack's Shockwave. Jack has insane cooldown with an innate biotic damage boost. Miranda has the squad buff that makes Jack less squishy. Very efficient squad.

And people who "hate" Jack as a character because of her confrontation with Miranda need to pull their heads out of their asses and like or dislike the character for what she is.

Well, I hate unintelligent psychos.

[jtav]

Okay, just finished playing through as both Paragon and Renegade. And it wasn't half-bad playing through mostly Renegade. The first thing that struck me is that Miranda really does believe in Cerberus as she understands it. The inflection in her voice doesn't match up with someone parroting what she's been told. Second, she is both angry and defensive about Teltin. This is *not* Cerberus as she understands it, and she won't be tarred with that brush, by Jack or you. The second thing is that Miranda is bitter as hell about her genes. Don't think I need to explain that. "The only thing I can take credit for are my mistakes" cuts like a sword. Both responses seem inadequate. I don't want to romance her, I want to hug her and tell her everything will be okay. There's also more than a whiff of "she has now acknowledged her place in the pecking order and is fit to be romanced." Or not, since the dialogue is identical for both genders up to this point.

But the Miranda that emerges from "You're jealous" is glorious. TVTropes calls this scene "Slap Slap Kiss" but I think they're wrong. There's no anger here, only good natured rivalry and teasing. And Miranda gets some of the fire back in her as she reminds Shepard what's she's done. Watch her body language as well: walking closer, not backing down. And despite what the wheel says, Shepard does not kiss her as much as they kiss each other. She's a willing participant in her own seduction. She isn't bowing to some irresistible tide of Shepard's power. Even in the aftermath, she's more exasperated than anything and has one last barb for Shep, a command no less. My reaction was wanting to tell the crazy kids to find a closet so they could make out.

I liked the Paragon version quite a bit less. I can't put my finger on it, but she feels less like an actor than something acted upon. Shepard boosts her self-esteem, she responds by making things sexual. But when he expresses interest, she begs off. Stammering. There are individual lines I like ("I think I could live with it" "Cautious, Commander Shepard") but she seems much less Shepard's equal here. I realize she stammers after the kiss too, but she pulls herself together enough to toss off an expasperated/amused "Stop smiling, damn it" as a parting shot.

Modifié par jtav, 22 octobre 2011 - 07:07 .

[naledgeborn]

jtav wrote...

Okay, just finished playing through as both Paragon and Renegade. And it wasn't half-bad playing through mostly Renegade. The first thing that struck me is that Miranda really does believe in Cerberus as she understands it. The inflection in her voice doesn't match up with someone parroting what she's been told. Second, she is both angry and defensive about Teltin. This is *not* Cerberus as she understands it, and she won't be tarred with that brush, by Jack or you. The second thing is that Miranda is bitter as hell about her genes. Don't think I need to explain that. "The only thing I can take credit for are my mistakes" cuts like a sword. Both responses seem inadequate. I don't want to romance her, I want to hug her and tell her everything will be okay. There's also more than a whiff of "she has now acknowledged her place in the pecking order and is fit to be romanced." Or not, since the dialogue is identical for both genders up to this point.

But the Miranda that emerges from "You're jealous" is glorious. TVTropes calls this scene "Slap Slap Kiss" but I think they're wrong. There's no anger here, only good natured rivalry and teasing. And Miranda gets some of the fire back in her as she reminds Shepard what's she's done. Watch her body language as well: walking closer, not backing down. And despite what the wheel says, Shepard does not kiss her as much as they kiss each other. She's a willing participant in her own seduction. She isn't bowing to some irresistible tide of Shepard's power. Even in the aftermath, she's more exasperated than anything and has one last barb for Shep, a command no less. My reaction was wanting to tell the crazy kids to find a closet so they could make out.

I liked the Paragon version quite a bit less. I can't put my finger on it, but she feels less like an actor than something acted upon. Shepard boosts her self-esteem, she responds by making things sexual. But when he expresses interest, she begs off. Stammering. There are individual lines I like ("I think I could live with it" "Cautious, Commander Shepard") but she seems much less Shepard's equal here. I realize she stammers after the kiss too, but she pulls herself together enough to toss off an expasperated/amused "Stop smiling, damn it" as a parting shot.

Pretty much. All that's missing from the Renegade version is a Bastilla-like "Shut up and kiss me!". That would've been epic despite it being a throwback line.

"Stop smiling damn it!"  made up for it though.

[LiquidGrape]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Well, I hate unintelligent psychos.

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote slightly earlier...

Damn right, or I would use a Renegade Interrupt to throw the psycho in the crowd, .......and then ignite my Cain, which is most definitely a mini-nuke, from far away with Miri at my side. 

Wait, who's the psycho here again?

Anyway, OT: Miranda is cool, more of Miranda would be pleasant, Miranda available as a LI for a Shepard of either sex would be pleasantly cool.
Grapey out.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 22 octobre 2011 - 07:16 .