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[naledgeborn]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Well, I hate unintelligent psychos.

Somehow I doubt you'd be saying that if Yvonne Strahovski played Jack instead of Miranda. Then you'd be all about loving "unintelligent pyschos".

Sorry dude I just can't take you seriously.

[Skullheart]

Jack isn't an "unintelligent psycho". She writes poetry. She is like a psycho emo from the 22 century.

[Bran187]

naledgeborn wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Well, I hate unintelligent psychos.

Somehow I doubt you'd be saying that if Yvonne Strahovski played Jack instead of Miranda. Then you'd be all about loving "unintelligent pyschos".

Sorry dude I just can't take you seriously.

Im not a fan of 'psychos' in general. lol

But i would still take Miri over say.... Ash if they switched bodies. But i can't do the whole psycho thing. Im all about orgainization and order and psychos tend to ruin that. But i can honestly say that i like Miri's character the most, the looks are a great bonus but not what i like the most about her.

[jtav]

She's also deeply troubled and of questionable responsibility for her actions.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

naledgeborn wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Well, I hate unintelligent psychos.

Somehow I doubt you'd be saying that if Yvonne Strahovski played Jack instead of Miranda. Then you'd be all about loving "unintelligent pyschos".

Sorry dude I just can't take you seriously.

I dislike jack, there should be no objection to my opinion.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
I liked the Paragon version quite a bit less. I can't put my finger on it, but she feels less like an actor than something acted upon. Shepard boosts her self-esteem, she responds by making things sexual. But when he expresses interest, she begs off. Stammering. There are individual lines I like ("I think I could live with it" "Cautious, Commander Shepard") but she seems much less Shepard's equal here. I realize she stammers after the kiss too, but she pulls herself together enough to toss off an expasperated/amused "Stop smiling, damn it" as a parting shot.

She may be a bit less in control in the Paragon path, I don't really disagree with your assessment. But it doesn't last, and I don't mind that she's not 100% in control at all times. Nobody is.

My main issue with these scenes is that Meer's acting sucks in them no matter what you do. Strahovski is really good throughout, though, even saving a few clunky lines.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:06 .

[CrutchCricket]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
I dislike jack, there should be no objection to my opinion.

Your opinion is logically invalid and therefore inferior.

That was a joke.

Not a fan of Jack myself. She's got issues I hope she gets them resolved but my Shepard doesn't have time for that. Squadmate wise I never use her and I can't really understand in-game reasons for recruiting her in the first place. She's a convict, highly unstable and volitile and has a history with Cerberus. Why TIM wants her to be a part of this mission is beyond me.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:13 .

[naledgeborn]

@ MEff4life

But there is from me because your opinion sucks. Now drop it. No more Jack, Tali, Ash, whatever bashing.

OT: Meer is very good when he wants be. He made Shepard as emotional as a brick on purpose if only not to vary his Paragon/Renegade deliveries from each other. I think that if he were in the booth with the rest of the cast during these types of one-on-one scenes he'd do a lot better.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:15 .

[flemm]

naledgeborn wrote...
OT: Meer is very good when he wants be. He made Shepard as emotional as brick on purpose if only not vary his Paragon/Renegade deliveries from each other. I think that if he were in the booth with the rest of the cast during these types of one-on-one scenes he'd do a lot better.

Perhaps so. I don't really mind what he does with broshep overall, but his delivery in this type of scene is a problem imo. Hopefully one they will attempt to rectify in ME3 by giving him more leeway to emote.

There's not much point in having a fully voiced protagonist if the actor is then going to be asked to be intentionally bland.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:18 .

[naledgeborn]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Not a fan of Jack myself. She's got issues I hope she gets them resolved but my Shepard doesn't have time for that. Squadmate wise I never use her and I can't really understand in-game reasons for recruiting her in the first place. She's a convict, highly unstable and volitile and has a history with Cerberus. Why TIM wants her to be a part of this mission is beyond me.

Lore-wise, other than Gillian Grayson, Jack is the most powerful human biotic. That could come in handy in a suicide mission with the goal being to save human lives. If Shepard can't command respect from an unstable, volitile criminal he doesn't deserve to be in command of an entire ship/crew. Military officers are trained for that sort of thing. Part of Officer Training School is getting a room of kindergarteners to "work together" cohesively.

Edit: Typos galore.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:23 .

[jtav]

Okay, last romance conversation. For the record I did "Love?" and "No promises."

And this is where my blood pressure goes back up. For starters, the beginning doesn't flow very well. "What happened was a simple mistake, nothing more" is followed immediatalely by "I don't know what this is..." It feels like severe mood whiplash, trying to inject gravitas into what had been a fun romance. But it falls flat. The biggest reason is Shepard. He's a block of wood. Miranda is scraped raw (props to Strahovski here--I take back some of my more unkind comments), but Shepard can never worry and fret over her the way she is fretting over him. We don't have what would seem to be an incredibly obvious "you first" option. Assuming Shepard does in fact have the capacity to feel such, a possible explanation presents itself: he's still in commander mode, saying what he has to to keep morale up. But Miranda isn't speaking as his 2IC, but as his lover. If he can't be vulnerable with her when she's pouring her heart out to hin, this relationship is doomed. No one is in or out of control 100% of the time, but the power dynamics are tilted decidedly in Shep's favor here. What makes it galling is that there will never be a moment where Miranda needs to be strong and comfort Shep, which would have mitigated my crticisms a good deal.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
What makes it galling is that there will never be a moment where Miranda needs to be strong and comfort Shep, which would have mitigated my crticisms a good deal.

I dunno. I hope there will be. If they are going to try to improve the romance scenes a bit, and make them more emotional, according to player choice, then that's the type of thing that could be added. I'd like to see it.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:26 .

[Labrev]

naledgeborn wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Not a fan of Jack myself. She's got issues I hope she gets them resolved but my Shepard doesn't have time for that. Squadmate wise I never use her and I can't really understand in-game reasons for recruiting her in the first place. She's a convict, highly unstable and volitile and has a history with Cerberus. Why TIM wants her to be a part of this mission is beyond me.

Lore-wise, other than Gillian Grayson, Jack is the most powerful human biotic. That could come iin handy in a suicide mission with the gaol being to save huma lives. If Shepard can't command respect from a unstable, vilotile, criminal he doesn't deserve to be in command of an entire ship/crew. Military officers are trained for that sort of thing. Part of Officer Training School is getting a room of kindergartens to "work together" cohesively.

Not to mention, there are only two biotics on the team in Jacob and Miranda. Thane and Samara are not on the recruitment list at the time either. So at that point in the game, you can't be awfully picky. Especially not to pass-up on a biotic who can crush three heavies with her bare hands.

And really, for a reputed "psycho," she's pretty downright tame with Shepard. You can even ****** her off in the catfight and the worst she'll do is.... sulk?

I think they also figured she'd be a polarizing, love-or-hate figure and if left unrecruitable, no one would give her a chance. I know that if I had the option not to recruit Jack, I'd have probably left her myself. I wasn't a fan at first. I even tried to resist liking her when I was trying to get to know her.

But no, couldn't do it. She's my favorite now.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

naledgeborn wrote...

@ MEff4life

But there is from me because your opinion sucks. Now drop it. No more Jack, Tali, Ash, whatever bashing.

So now I return after not being here for a long time, and you insult me?

Everyone has a right to say their own opinion about a character, whether it's less or more important than others. Yes, that sounds crazy coming from me, but I had a long time to thing.

[Vertigo_1]

This isn't a hate thread.

[flemm]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
I think they also figured she'd be a polarizing, love-or-hate figure and if left unrecruitable, no one would give her a chance. I know that if I had the option not to recruit Jack, I'd have probably left her myself. I wasn't a fan at first. I even tried to resist liking her when I was trying to get to know her.

Maybe so, but I also think her recruitment is just too important for the main story to allow players to pass up. You need her history with Cerberus and her confrontation with Miranda.

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Okay, just finished playing through as both Paragon and Renegade. And it wasn't half-bad playing through mostly Renegade. The first thing that struck me is that Miranda really does believe in Cerberus as she understands it. The inflection in her voice doesn't match up with someone parroting what she's been told. Second, she is both angry and defensive about Teltin. This is *not* Cerberus as she understands it, and she won't be tarred with that brush, by Jack or you. The second thing is that Miranda is bitter as hell about her genes. Don't think I need to explain that. "The only thing I can take credit for are my mistakes" cuts like a sword. Both responses seem inadequate. I don't want to romance her, I want to hug her and tell her everything will be okay. There's also more than a whiff of "she has now acknowledged her place in the pecking order and is fit to be romanced." Or not, since the dialogue is identical for both genders up to this point.

But the Miranda that emerges from "You're jealous" is glorious. TVTropes calls this scene "Slap Slap Kiss" but I think they're wrong. There's no anger here, only good natured rivalry and teasing. And Miranda gets some of the fire back in her as she reminds Shepard what's she's done. Watch her body language as well: walking closer, not backing down. And despite what the wheel says, Shepard does not kiss her as much as they kiss each other. She's a willing participant in her own seduction. She isn't bowing to some irresistible tide of Shepard's power. Even in the aftermath, she's more exasperated than anything and has one last barb for Shep, a command no less. My reaction was wanting to tell the crazy kids to find a closet so they could make out.

I see we're 100% in agreement here. The line "The only thing I can take credits for are my mistakes" is the only one I don't like, but then, it's her defining flaw to be angry at her father for the wrong things and to not see that what she's done with her gifts more than makes up for any misgivings she might have. It is my no. 1 hope for ME3 that she'll overcome that self-destructive attitude, exorcize the ghost of her father and embrace what she is and who she is.   
There's one Renegade option I don't like so much, that's the one leading to her saying "You're the best humanity has to offer". I don't quite recall if that's coupled with something I like, but IIRC I usually use the upper option there, and where Shepard says "The best thing he (TIM) did was to put you on my squad". The rest of this scene I use the lower options.
The scene with the kiss is really good, so much better than the alternative version that there's no comparison. The Paragon version is tame, she's quite a bit less confident and the only thing I miss is Shepard's "Yeah, he gave you gifts, but you can be proud of what you're done with them":

[jtav]

Considering that thread goes nowhere? No, you don't. Jack and Tali should have swapped recruitment slots.

And Ieldra, the line you're thinking of is coupled with "The best thing he did was put you on my squad" and you get her line about not having fire. I chose that one.

Modifié par jtav, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:42 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Considering that thread goes nowhere? No, you don't. Jack and Tali should have swapped recruitment slots.

I'm not sure I understand. Could you clarify?

[jtav]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

Considering that thread goes nowhere? No, you don't. Jack and Tali should have swapped recruitment slots.

I'm not sure I understand. Could you clarify?

Tali should have been mandatory, Jack optional. She also hates Cerberus and has another, important plot thread.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

This isn't a hate thread.

No sh!t. >_>

It's not like I made a 1000 word rant on how much I dislike Jack, so calm down. There are worse people who say worse things in other threads.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:48 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
But Miranda isn't speaking as his 2IC, but as his lover. If he can't be vulnerable with her when she's pouring her heart out to hin, this relationship is doomed. No one is in or out of control 100% of the time, but the power dynamics are tilted decidedly in Shep's favor here. What makes it galling is that there will never be a moment where Miranda needs to be strong and comfort Shep, which would have mitigated my crticisms a good deal.

Again 100% agreement. Shepard's unbearable here. In fact, this scene was the main reason for my old thread "Why I don't like ME2's Commander Shepard", with my main criticism being that he always speaks from high up, even where it's totally inappropriate. And "Come on, Miranda. You want this" - I don't know what to say. That's so stereotypical, almost sexist. Why the hell can't he admit that he wants her? *Grumbles*

I hope we'll get a balancing scene in ME3.

[Dr. Doctor]

 Mark Meer's strength is that he can do funny and sarcastic very well, as his backround is in comedic acting, the issue is that Shepard doesn't really get to show as broad a range of emotions in ME2. Meer's performance in Lair of The Shadow Broker was a definite step up from what we get in the main game.

What interests me however is when Liara asks how Shepard is doing at the end she says that she wants the truth, not the reassuring facade that he puts up for the crew. This would suggest that Shepard does have fears and worries of his own, but bottles them up because he's expected to be the fearless Commander. What I really want is a scene similar to the Locker Scene in ME1 with the ME2 romances.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
Tali should have been mandatory, Jack optional. She also hates Cerberus and has another, important plot thread.

Euh, well, it's not something that I have a huge stake in either way, but honestly I think having Jack's recruitment be mandatory makes more sense.

The quarian plot is certainly important to the ME story overall, but not as much to ME2 specifically, which is mainly about the twist of Shepard being resurrected by Cerberus.

Tali is the returning character, while Jack is new and ME2-specific. Also, though this is more of a minor detail, Tali's recruitment seems to be the result of the accidental encounter early in the game, and not something TIM was expecting. (IIRC, he mentions that it's a surprise at some point.)

Modifié par flemm, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:55 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
And Ieldra, the line you're thinking of is coupled with "The best thing he did was put you on my squad" and you get her line about not having fire. I chose that one.

Yes, I also choose this one. "I don't have your fire..." seems like an honest appreciation of his leadership, with no hint of putting herself down except to admit that she's been wrong. Then she starts to talk about her genes. It doesn't matter what you select there, her answer is the same. After that, the lower choices "you're jealous" and "[Kiss her]". So the only upper option that's important is "The best thing he did was to put you on my squad".