82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

No doubt, Bioware isn't setting us up for a fall. But his cybernetics could very well be a liability, one he has to overcome with heroic willpower. No way to tell yet.

True, anything is possible

CrutchCricket wrote...
So assume... even less than nothing?

*mind explodes*

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:44 .

[Eyeshield21]

flemm wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

No doubt, Bioware isn't setting us up for a fall. But his cybernetics could very well be a liability, one he has to overcome with heroic willpower. No way to tell yet.

True, anything is possible

CrutchCricket wrote...
So assume... even less than nothing?

*mind explodes*

"Tries to save Flemm's mind by using Lazurus project"

[flemm]

Eyeshield21 wrote...
"Tries to save Flemm's mind by using Lazurus project"

Just please, please don't put a control chip in my brain

[Eyeshield21]

flemm wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...
"Tries to save Flemm's mind by using Lazurus project"

Just please, please don't put a control chip in my brain

Nope, that's Miranda's job

[flemm]

Eyeshield21 wrote...
Nope, that's Miranda's job

Maybe it's already happened. OMG...

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:02 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

SLACKERS! >

Behold...the might of a Mirimancer's/Mirimaniac's love for Miri. Trust me, there's more to it than that. Miri is STILL my one and only LI in all of Mass Effect<3!








:wub::wub::wub:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Dr. Doctor]

jtav wrote...

Again, she has lines. Once she's said them, no plot armor. Assume nothing.

It's more of plot-resistant sheilding. I'm somewhat sad that a romanced Miranda can't die during the SM, while I do like happy endings tragedy can also be enjoyable. I suppose that the plot shield runs off of the power of love.

[CuseGirl]

flemm wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...
Nope, that's Miranda's job

Maybe it's already happened. OMG...

well considering u worship at this thread like its her altar.....she's probably got all of us....

[Bran187]

Nice pics MASSEFFECTfanforlife101.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

flemm wrote...

Initially, maybe, but if there's one thing we can be absolutely sure of, it's that Shepard gets to play hero/space jesus in the end. Lazarus is a big part of what makes Shepard special, ergo it is extremely likely it will have positive results in the end.

No doubt, Bioware isn't setting us up for a fall. But his cybernetics could very well be a liability, one he has to overcome with heroic willpower. No way to tell yet.

Ugh. I hope it isn't heroic willpower alone. Shepard against a Reaper? Ludicrous. What I can see is resisting the influence in its early stages until you get to a place where he can be disconnected, cured etc.. Maybe the influence gets stronger over time and you only have a certain number of missions until you get the "game over" message or see the "Reapers win" ending on your screen.

[Shotokanguy]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

jtav wrote...

Again, she has lines. Once she's said them, no plot armor. Assume nothing.

It's more of plot-resistant sheilding. I'm somewhat sad that a romanced Miranda can't die during the SM, while I do like happy endings tragedy can also be enjoyable. I suppose that the plot shield runs off of the power of love.

I prefer "Do You Believe in Love?" 

If fits them more, and there's that beautiful scene in Chuck with Yvonne cartwheeling and smiling and stuff...

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

jtav wrote...
Again, she has lines. Once she's said them, no plot armor. Assume nothing.

It's more of plot-resistant sheilding. I'm somewhat sad that a romanced Miranda can't die during the SM, while I do like happy endings tragedy can also be enjoyable. I suppose that the plot shield runs off of the power of love.

One would almost think it was intentional, right? Such a little thing like making sure Miranda is there to to say her lines, and such consequences. But honestly, I don't think it matters to anyone but Miranda's fans, and SM deaths somehow fail to have the same impact as the death on Virmire. 

As for the power of love, I hope they'll keep far away from it. Love is a great thing, but it shouldn't have any special power to resolve problems unrelated to itself.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
One would almost think it was intentional, right? Such a little thing like making sure Miranda is there to to say her lines, and such consequences.

I don't see any reason why the lines couldn't have been canned, so it probably was intentional to a point. Not that it necessarily means that much where the next game is concerned.

[Ieldra]

Started the SM in my replay of my main maleShep...



Discovered two things:

First, Joker's sequence to regain control of the Normandy counts as a mission, so that you can have the kiss scene before it and the promise scene after. Not exactly the best roleplaying-wise, but I want this to be as late as possible just in case I need to replay romance scenes.

Second, the mod that gives Miranda her loyalty outfit instead of her default one doesn't work in the elevator scene and in all SM cutscenes on the Normandy. So instead of switching the default outfit's file with the loyalty outfit's, I just copied the loyalty outfit's files over the default. With this setup you cycle the outfit after Miranda's LM and she then has it always after Minuteman Station except for the engine room scene, including the SM cutscenes and the elevator scene, but the default isn't available for selection anymore.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

flemm wrote...

Initially, maybe, but if there's one thing we can be absolutely sure of, it's that Shepard gets to play hero/space jesus in the end. Lazarus is a big part of what makes Shepard special, ergo it is extremely likely it will have positive results in the end.

No doubt, Bioware isn't setting us up for a fall. But his cybernetics could very well be a liability, one he has to overcome with heroic willpower. No way to tell yet.

Ugh. I hope it isn't heroic willpower alone. Shepard against a Reaper? Ludicrous. What I can see is resisting the influence in its early stages until you get to a place where he can be disconnected, cured etc.. Maybe the influence gets stronger over time and you only have a certain number of missions until you get the "game over" message or see the "Reapers win" ending on your screen.

No it certainly wouldn't be. Full on indoctrination is inescapable. But I was thinking along the lines of the cybernetics being a quick remote backdoor for the Reapers. For example they beam a signal at the Normandy that would take over his cybernetics and try to control him like Overlord did (sort of), forcing him to submit, crash the ship etc. He'd have to fight to resist it just long enough to disable them somehow- maybe microwave himself*. Ingame they could play it like Bioshock, slowly sapping his health and/or other stats until he's able to disable them somehow.

I forget where I read this but the idea of an indoctrination meter was being tossed around with a similar mechanic to what you're describing. Since indoctrination doesn't build up on its own I would also recommend differing rates of takeover based on proximity. This could be used as a deciding factor for mission order/priority. You could do a bunch of side missions but if they all directly involve Reapers your indoctrination level would rise faster.


Speaking of cybernetics and Lazarus what did you guys think of my idea of Shepard coming back wrong? I only threw it in at the end but the more I think about it, it's a really interesting idea (not that I necessarily want it to happen). Basically the premise is Shepard was very like much like Miranda in ME1 in that he was all about the job, doing what it takes to win (particularly if ruthless) and rarely if ever allowed people a glimpse into himself. He was always in commander mode and that's what everyone knew of him. The only known instance anyone saw past that was when the Normandy was grounded and the LI at the time was able to comfort and inspire him.
Then he dies. Lazarus tries their damnest to bring him back and it looks like they succeed. Except now there is only the commander mode. Somehow the man behind it is broken or absent entirely. He's not a robot, but in a sense he is just acting the part of a dead man. If you try to look past that you find... nothing. In a sense Lazarus hasn't failed because they did bring back Commander Shepard (or Shepard Commander if you prefer)- the kickass soldier, hero of the Citadel and symbol of human ownage. But *insert first name here* Shepard is still lost, perhaps irrevocably. Not their fault since few knew what the man Shepard was like. Perhaps the tests Miranda mentioned that they neglected to do would've uncovered that?

*totally not ripped off MGS4 *shifty eyes*

[Ieldra]

@CrutchCricket:
An indoctrination meter as a mechanic, built up by doing missions involving Reapers or certain kinds of artifacts, that would be extremely interesting. The only problem would be to make it useful for increasing tension without annoying people. Perhaps there could be a mission where a defensive measure would be acquired after which this would become less relevant, or some kind of nanotechnological countermeasure to need to apply in regular intervals - which would cost resources. Hmm...doesn't sound so good, actually. No real drama. I think the danger of indoctrination should be relevant in ME3, but how....no idea.

About Shepard coming back wrong, that wouldn't work, not the way you describe it anyway. Shepard wasn't always in commander mode in ME1, nor in ME2. I also wouldn't want my character continuity being compromised in such a major way, especially if it's irreversible.

[jtav]

A further reflection on the romance: I'm somewhat infamous for both my complaining about the romance and my inability to keep a save where I romance another female ME2 LI. I think I figured out why: Tali and Jack arouse my protective instincts. They've been through so much that I just want to shield them from further harm, mother them.And that is the kiss of death for romance. Certainly I'm outraged by Miranda's childhood and want to beat her father to death with my bare hands, but it's coupled with my awareness that she's a big girl who can suffer the slings and arrows currently being thrown at her. Nothing in the main game indicates she needs physical or emotional rescued. She's tortured, scarred, but she's functional.And even during her softest moments on her LM, she is the protector, not the protected. There's no sense of "Shepard or no one." No guilt over not romancing her, which makes romancing her more desirable.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@CrutchCricket:
An indoctrination meter as a mechanic, built up by doing missions involving Reapers or certain kinds of artifacts, that would be extremely interesting.

I agree it's an interesting idea. It's the kind of thing Blizzard does all the time in boss fights, where, when you take damage, a debuff builds up on you that you need to cleanse or whatever to avoid being mind controlled.

So, theoretically, the encounter designers could do something like that within a singe battle, or over the course of a series of missions. Could also be a timed mission, where you need to get to the objective quickly to avoid indoctrination. The "Miranda's been captured" scenario could work like that, theoretically.

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:48 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

About Shepard coming back wrong, that wouldn't work, not the way you describe it anyway. Shepard wasn't always in commander mode in ME1, nor in ME2. I also wouldn't want my character continuity being compromised in such a major way, especially if it's irreversible.

Nor would I mine. Too invested in my Shep to want this to be main continuity. But as an alternate possibility, an alternate universe even, it has promise. I do think we see Shepard Commander far more in both games than we see Shepard the person (kind of makes sense outside the universe since you are supposed to be Shepard the person). By this I also don't mean he's still, robotic, emotionless (since he's none of those things), or just putting on an act (meant to decieve). Maybe it's more like Nicholas Angel in Hot Fuzz. He just can't switch off. Imperfect example since Shep isn't that anal.

I haven't fully worked it out yet and a lot of this is nebulous (attempting to even define "personality" is a dauting enough task without endeavoring to split it). I'll keep thinking about it and if I make any progress I'll bring it up again. In the meantime other pointers are still welcome.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:01 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

A further reflection on the romance: I'm somewhat infamous for both my complaining about the romance and my inability to keep a save where I romance another female ME2 LI. I think I figured out why: Tali and Jack arouse my protective instincts. They've been through so much that I just want to shield them from further harm, mother them.And that is the kiss of death for romance. Certainly I'm outraged by Miranda's childhood and want to beat her father to death with my bare hands, but it's coupled with my awareness that she's a big girl who can suffer the slings and arrows currently being thrown at her. Nothing in the main game indicates she needs physical or emotional rescued. She's tortured, scarred, but she's functional.And even during her softest moments on her LM, she is the protector, not the protected. There's no sense of "Shepard or no one." No guilt over not romancing her, which makes romancing her more desirable.

Huh. I never felt any guilt about not romancing either of them. "Jack" and "romance" are probably the thoughts farthest from each other in my Shep's mind. Really it feels easier romancing Miranda than it does Jack for the very simple fact that Miranda doesn't say something along the lines of "**** everything" every other line. I understand Jack's problems but you really have to have saintly patience to get through all the crap she throws at you (or have the time which Shepard does not). I hope she gets help but I just can't be bothered.

Tali I could see why guilt should be there. Post loyalty, knowing full well she's crazy about you yet still getting it on with Miranda not 6 feet from where she works? Total dick move. In that light the Miranda-Jack fight pales in comparison. Tali's got way more reason to hate Miranda (at least until she stops worshipping Shepard then she can hate Miranda AND Shepard.). Damn. Maybe I should hurry and create another playthrough where Shepard picks Tali to make up for this. Was going to do it anyway but writing about it makes it sink in.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:20 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
A further reflection on the romance: I'm somewhat infamous for both my complaining about the romance and my inability to keep a save where I romance another female ME2 LI. I think I figured out why: Tali and Jack arouse my protective instincts. They've been through so much that I just want to shield them from further harm, mother them.And that is the kiss of death for romance. Certainly I'm outraged by Miranda's childhood and want to beat her father to death with my bare hands, but it's coupled with my awareness that she's a big girl who can suffer the slings and arrows currently being thrown at her. Nothing in the main game indicates she needs physical or emotional rescued. She's tortured, scarred, but she's functional.And even during her softest moments on her LM, she is the protector, not the protected. There's no sense of "Shepard or no one." No guilt over not romancing her, which makes romancing her more desirable.

Yep, it's like that for me, too.

Recall Liara's answer when you ask about her and Feron? She says even were she attracted to him, it wouldn't feel right, almost like exploitation. That's what I feel about Jack's romance. Tali is good on-mission - very mature actually, for instance the way she gets over her grief on her LM, but in the romance she reverts to a girl who rouses those protective instincts. I guess that works for some, but not for me. She's more like a daughter or a little sister.

Miranda though - in spite of a few suboptimal moments, she's generally on Shepard's level. She's the only real romance option for me.

BTW, I'm nearing the end of the SM and I'd been thinking of roleplaying here. The result is that everyone survives. All replays of this year have had deaths on the SM and I'm sick of it. Cyrus Shepard is a good commander and knows the skills of his team. Also Miranda has lead both fire teams. I didn't do that in my earlier games because I wanted her with me, but who does Cyrus Shepard trust to do that more than Miranda?

I must say the mood of the SM is very different if there are no deaths. Shepard and team are totally badass. It's also been a long time since I've seen Samara's biotic explosion. If ME3 doesn't get too annoying in pushing Garrus and Tali in my face while sidelining Miranda, I'll keep this ending. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[jtav]

You think we can get out of recruiting Garrus (and Grunt, should he get any kind of significant role)? I'm softer than I believed myself to be. Might just simply skip Zaaeed altogether. Tali's my self-insert, so I don't mind her too much.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

You think we can get out of recruiting Garrus (and Grunt, should he get any kind of significant role)? I'm softer than I believed myself to be. Might just simply skip Zaaeed altogether. Tali's my self-insert, so I don't mind her too much.

I'd be surprised if any of the above were mandatory in the strong sense, reason being that the game will have to be able to pretend they're not there in any event. So, might as well give players the option of not opening the tank, so to speak.

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:46 .

[naledgeborn]

A Miranda betrayal/deception based plot twist. What are you opinions on it?

My personal take on it is, nay. Why? Even though Shepard is as bright as 1AM on a moonless night, I'm tired of the protagonist being played like a sucker by a pretty girl. Makes men in general look bad as well the hero look stupid. Two recent examples come into mind.

Adam Jensen being obviously played by Megan Reed (and it doesn't stop there Namir makes it personal and takes her as his lover). I saw it coming a mile away and though the protagonist would be compromised and clouded by his personal stake the deception shouldn't have been so painstakingly obvious to the player. It makes Adam look like a passive idiot.

Second, BioWare's own, Hawke yet again proves how stupid he is for letting Tallis pull his strings like a puppet during MotA. Not only does Hawke not notice the "House of Tides" markings on her armor, but even as an anti-Qunari let's her get away with her mission objective without any action.

These are my only concerns with a betrayal scenario. I know Shepard isn't usually the smartest kid on the playground, but when something is made obvious to me from a metagame perspective, from a roleplay perspective it makes the protagonist seem like a complete tool.

If a deception plot arc is to happen it should take me (the player) completely by surprise. Only way I'd let it slide.

Thoughts?

[flemm]

naledgeborn wrote...
A Miranda betrayal/deception based plot twist. What are you opinions on it?

My main issue would be that I don't see a scenario where Miranda realistically doesn't want the same thing the player-character wants, i.e. defeating the Reapers. Unless indoctrinated, in which case I'm not interested, and it wouldn't really be a betrayal anyway.

The one scenario I might approve of would be the one in which Miranda's true goal of retaking Cerberus is not revealed until the moment it happens, at which point you need to decide whether you support her or not. In that scenario, the deception in ME3 would be the extent to which she has truly become an alliance sympathiser. She plays the good soldier because she needs Shep and the rest of the crew to get close to TIM. But her actual goal is not 100% in line with everyone else's. Something like that I could be interested in.

It wouldn't be a betrayal per se, more of a ruse. And, in the end, it's the player who has to decide where Shep's loyalties lie.

Modifié par flemm, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:58 .