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[CrutchCricket]

Ah the morning catch-up. Not as extensive this time around. Still...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
This thread started 4 months ago. Only 8 months left and then it's gone.

ME3 comes out in 5 months. I predict dozens and dozens of pages will be added to this thread in the days after the release where we all nerd out out about Miranda to the max. Conversations will expand to ridiculous sizes, and be lost in the flurry of page-long posts back and forth. Teeth will gnash, praises and insults will reign alternatively from the sky, marriages will be broken, lawsuits will ensue and the blood of the innocent will be spilled- for about another two months. Then most will have burned out and only a few will remain with a month left to go, dead set opinions and the beginning of stagnation. Then they will feel the call to a far away new thread where each must battle until only one remains... sorry got carried away and started thinking about Highlander:wizard:. Anyway I doubt it's a problem.

Regarding post-ME3 I envision something similar to paul165 as well as a full sap romance ending as an alternate. Detailing these endings with subtle variations was actually my first post on this site. I don't feel like reposting it at the moment but if you're curious, just ask. I might also write up a clearer document in the future.

who would know wrote...

Same. The way it is now, any
specific conversation is lost forever in a character's respective thread
(read: shrine). And locking anything less-than-general just for it to
be redirected to a
character's support thread isn't really promoting serious or continued
discussion.
I'd venture to say that these characters deserve to be and could be
talked about in more than one thread, but what do I know. 

Alas, every support thread is in some combination

• Overwhelming
• Cliquish
• Thought-policed.

Eh, what are you gonna do? This is the main Bioware site and we are but a small thread in a ugly sweater (see what I did there?).  A dedicated character site/forum would probably cater better to that level of specificity. I still agree with you, especially on the bullet points and particularly on the second one.

[Xilizhra]

Because of all that, I think Miranda will be able to make peace with herself. After that, I think it's very possible that after ME3, she might be heading a research foundation, think tank, technology corporation or similar.organization specializing in human enhancement technologies including things like offshoots of Lazarus, genetic engineering, maybe even adapting Reaper technology to those goals. It's exactly what I think would appeal to her - a kind of human advancement untouched by politics and by its very nature, untainted by xenophobia.

Well, it's better than the alternative.

[jtav]

As much as I argue for TIW, the Foundation is my preference. One, it's dramatically appropriate. Miranda was discarded as an unfit heir but returns in triumph to take back her birthright. Two, I think it would intellectually and professionally satisfy her. Three, it's more suited to raising the children she wants, however they come about and is considerably less likely to put Oriana or other family in danger. It may be the best option to tie all aspects of her character together in a satisfying way.

[jtav]

Oh, and picture. I always liked Miranda's eyes here:

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

As much as I argue for TIW, the Foundation is my preference. One, it's dramatically appropriate. Miranda was discarded as an unfit heir but returns in triumph to take back her birthright. Two, I think it would intellectually and professionally satisfy her. Three, it's more suited to raising the children she wants, however they come about and is considerably less likely to put Oriana or other family in danger. It may be the best option to tie all aspects of her character together in a satisfying way.

I like the concept as well. It's less clear to me how this would tie into the overall war story than TIW scenario, though.

Guess it would depend on where Mr. Lawson falls in the scheme of things. If he ends up right in the middle of the main Cerberus/Alliance story, which I do think is possible, then maybe something like the Foundation scenario could happen.

Sweet image, jtav, thanks

Re: character threads being cliquish, well, people are cliquish. A subforum would also be cliquish (though I agree it would be preferable for more focused discussion). So, the only remedy there is not being too narrow-minded or too focused on imposing a specific view of any given character. It's tough, as fans, to avoid doing this, because we all tend to want very badly to see our favorite characters portrayed in specific ways. But, it's not impossible.

Modifié par flemm, 26 octobre 2011 - 01:52 .

[jtav]

War scenario? I'm speaking strictly of epilogues. While I'm here, there are three things I want in a post-game scenario.

1. Miranda continuing to challenge herself on a grand scale professionally.
2. Not to be forced into fatherhood in romanced games. It's fine as an option, but Shepard Jr. shouldn't be the only option. And, of course, it's none of my business if I didn't romance her.
3. Any pregnancy to result from a medical procedure.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

War scenario? I'm speaking strictly of epilogues.

Yeah, but I would think that an epilogue would most likely tie into something that happened in the game. Like, for TIW scenario, Miranda leads the remnants of Cerberus against the Reapers, and in the epilogue we hear more about how that plays out later.

If we don't encounter Mr. Lawson at all in the game, and don't learn anything more about him or his organisation, then I would expect an epilogue dealing with that to be much less likely. (Though you never know, of course.)

Modifié par flemm, 26 octobre 2011 - 01:56 .

[naledgeborn]

Who needs kids anyway? Especially in a setting where humans live well into 120s. Plenty of time for blowing up buildings. I'm sure Ms Lawson would concur.

And yeah no immaculate conceptions. I like Shepard, but not in the Egyptian/Greek mythological sort of way.

My 2 Lincolns.

[MisterJB]

I support...both. Miranda, sole CEO of the EAE as well as the very, very illusive leader of the New and Improved Cerberus. Since Shepard has already been burned anyway, he could act as the face of it so that Miranda can still have a social life.

Regarding children in romanced games, my preferred option would be Miri and Shep finding another genetic twin while they deal with Mr. Lawson and decide to raise her.

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
Re: character threads being cliquish, well, people are cliquish. A subforum would also be cliquish (though I agree it would be preferable for more focused discussion). So, the only remedy there is not being too narrow-minded or too focused on imposing a specific view of any given character. It's tough, as fans, to avoid doing this, because we all tend to want very badly to see our favorite characters portrayed in specific ways. But, it's not impossible.

True, it all starts with the people that post. However it's not always a matter of intentionally being narrow minded and snuffing out other view points in favor of your own. It could just be that one viewpoint has stronger supporters, people with more skill at debating that put more time and effort into it. This leads to the same thing, even if no one's intentionally being suppressed. The way to avoid a thread becoming cliquish is to counterbalance the views so none become overbearing. Sadly there's no controlling this sort of thing but you can mitigate it by playing Devil's Advocate.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
As much as I argue for TIW, the Foundation is my preference. One, it's dramatically appropriate. Miranda was discarded as an unfit heir but returns in triumph to take back her birthright. Two, I think it would intellectually and professionally satisfy her. Three, it's more suited to raising the children she wants, however they come about and is considerably less likely to put Oriana or other family in danger. It may be the best option to tie all aspects of her character together in a satisfying way.

I like it, too, with no clear preference for either. I only fear that her writer might overplay her difficulties with her genetic enhancements, which would lead her to reject that path. I'd rather let Lazarus define her than her self-esteem problems, and have her deal with her father's ghost once and for all and take credit for her achievements. After all, she does damn good work...

[Ieldra]

naledgeborn wrote...
Who needs kids anyway? Especially in a setting where humans live well into 120s. Plenty of time for blowing up buildings. I'm sure Ms Lawson would concur.

Why does this remind me of Kargesh's unnamed friend.

"Blowing up buildings is better than kids!"

And yeah no immaculate conceptions. I like Shepard, but not in the Egyptian/Greek mythological sort of way.

It bears repeating. No miracle pregnancies. If only for the sake of my carpet - puking all about the place leaves things unpleasant. 

[jtav]

I've finished everything but the engine room scene. It strikes me that the "promise scene" really doesn't gel wit the rest of the romance. You have this moment of attempted pathos but things go right back to playful for the lock-in and stay there. Maybe better to keep it light and save big, emotional declarations for ME3?

[CrutchCricket]

Wait maybe I missed something but how is Miranda "discarded as unfit"? She ran away, her father tried pursuing her and she needed Cerberus to protect her from him. Only when he couldn't have her did Oriana come into play.
That reminds me, Miranda was engineered from her father's DNA but she wasn't the first. So there were more "rejected copies". This sounds a lot like Okeer building his krogan legacy. Wonder if they're in any way related or what Okeer and Mr. Lawson would have to say to each other (you know, if Okeer was still alive) and conversely what Miranda and Grunt might talk about. We at least know enough of Grunt to know he might care the less out of any of them. Actually come to think of it Grunt can be used as a "get over it" example for Miranda's own doubts about her past.

edit* Damn this makes the whole recruiting mission for Grunt more disappointing because Miranda makes no comment about any of this. She can't have not noticed the similarities. I call writer oversight on this one.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 26 octobre 2011 - 03:42 .

[Xilizhra]

It bears repeating. No miracle pregnancies. If only for the sake of my carpet - puking all about the place leaves things unpleasant.

What would be better? That or continued sterility?

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
True, it all starts with the people that post. However it's not always a matter of intentionally being narrow minded and snuffing out other view points in favor of your own. It could just be that one viewpoint has stronger supporters, people with more skill at debating that put more time and effort into it. This leads to the same thing, even if no one's intentionally being suppressed. The way to avoid a thread becoming cliquish is to counterbalance the views so none become overbearing. Sadly there's no controlling this sort of thing but you can mitigate it by playing Devil's Advocate.

I've been known to dabble in that very thing

Anyway, I agree, it's not really about intentionally blocking out other views, but it can happen accidentally, or as a byproduct of other things.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...

It bears repeating. No miracle pregnancies. If only for the sake of my carpet - puking all about the place leaves things unpleasant.

What would be better? That or continued sterility?

Cured infertility followed by normal pregnancy? All sorts of other medical options including genetically engineering a new baby with their DNA? Adoption?

I think they were railing against immaculate conception. I'm not sure how/why that came up as a serious option.

*edited for typos

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 26 octobre 2011 - 04:05 .

[naledgeborn]

Continued sterility. It would at least give her room to grow as a character whereas a miracle pregnancy would feel like a fake disney ending to her story line.

Miranda doesn't strike me as the happy ending kind of love interest. More like pyrrhic victory.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Wait maybe I missed something but how is Miranda "discarded as unfit"?

Well, I don't recall that she was. On the contrary, she was "the first one he kept," until she ran away. But anyway, the basic idea of her coming home to take over the family business does present a certain dramatic weight, regardless of that particular detail.

Re: "immaculate conception," I doubt we'll see anything like that.

The infertility thing mystifies me a bit, but I think most likely the info will be disregarded, Miranda will have to genetically engineer her offspring, or she will cure her own infertility somehow.

Modifié par flemm, 26 octobre 2011 - 03:55 .

[jtav]

"She was meant to replace me." Also, he wants Oriana back, despite the fact that she is eighteen, almost nineteen. Her formative years are behind her.

What we worry about is Miiiranda getting pregnant without medical intervention. I've seen enough "oh, you're not really infertile" endings to worry.

Modifié par jtav, 26 octobre 2011 - 04:00 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

"She was meant to replace me."

Well, yeah, but that was after she left, wasn't it? Miranda's father couldn't try to get her back because of her ties to Cerberus.

[CrutchCricket]

naledgeborn wrote...

Continued sterility. It would at least give her room to grow as a character whereas a miracle pregnancy would feel like a fake disney ending to her story line.

Miranda doesn't strike me as the happy ending kind of love interest. More like pyrrhic victory.

In a world where you can literaly raise the dead, you're telling me you can't circumvent whatever a "benign neoplasm" is? I would hate for the writers to ignore in-game science and basic logic for the sake of literary devices. Whether it's an outright cure or a workaround, it is far more plausible that Miranda can beat this infertility if she wants to. And there is evidence that she wants to.

We'll just have to diagree on the suitability of a happy ending. Although I did have this idea some time ago of Miranda actually getting a kid but finding out that for some reason I haven't worked out yet she can't actually raise it.  So Oriana takes it. Feel free to rip this apart, I'm not particularly attached to it.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 26 octobre 2011 - 04:06 .

[naledgeborn]

Curing infertility through science is hardly an immaculate conception. Shepard is special shouldn't be that cure either. And sure literary devices shouldn't necessarily conflict with the established lore, but if it makes for a good enough story that I'm willing to overlook it then by all means have at it.

I actually like JB's scenario of Shepard and Miranda finding baby Miranda 3.0 and deciding to raise it. Carries more weight than a cure IMO.

[jtav]

As long as those of us who only like other people's children don't have to become parents.