82210 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

CrutchCricket wrote...

flemm wrote...
I can easily imagine a situation where Miranda is leading her own team that I would like even more than her being a squad member. It would involve the same amount of interaction as you would get with the squad, of course. But Miranda leading a rebel band of Cerberus operatives, appearing frequently throughout the game to assist in taking out important objectives, being able to check in with her back at her base periodically for new dialogue options, perhaps even pick up additional resources there, all leading up to the confrontation with TIM.

Would be awesome. Easy to imagine. It's a little harder to imagine it actually being implemented, though. But you never know.

I'd get behind this sort of thing in the following scenarios:

Sister Ship: Miranda commands a similar ship (call it the Thermopylae,keeping the famous battle and classical naming conventions) to Shepard and is never far away, either in the same cluster or a mass relay jump away. They coordinate missions together where ground teams must hit separate objectives simultaneously. If this were a gameplay mechanic it'd be like a type of co-op mode where each player would take command of either the Normandy or the Thermopylae and each would have separate objectives within the same larger mission. Ground teams would work together similar to the Fire Team concepts in the SM (but with more screentime showing the "other" team). Shepard would be able to call up Miranda and talk to her at any time via hologram and at certain points in the game (during brief reprieves in the fight perhaps) could arrange a ship-to-ship randevous where they could be together in person.
Battle Coordinator: Far simpler, this basically plays out like Liara after the Shadow Broker. Miranda's in one base, coordinating teams across the galaxy and is accessible at all times (you can visit the base whenever) with the option to again invite her to the Normandy during quieter periods.
XO: Most obvious example, Miranda's still aboard the Normandy, not part of your squad as in you can't take her into combat but you can chat her up whenever. Can fulfill the Balltle Coordinator role this way as well.

Obvious focus: Accessible at all times.

 

I always like the sister ship I did but the  Midway  works better... both  Normandy and Midway were  important battles in the  same war.   You  could almost say they were sister battles.  I would also love to have a large team and break them up in the different teams on a mission.  Like how Assassians Creed  Brotherhood lets you send  Assassians out on missions.

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...
The Wrex-Wreav situation raises my hopes a tiny bit. While Wreav serves the same basic purpose of giving Grunt's and Mordin's LM, the fact that he is a traditionalist makes his clan Urdnot significantly different from Wrex's.
For example after Mordin's LM, Wrex has clan Urdnot adopt the survivors from clan Weyrloc, which included females, while Wreav destroys them all and appropriates their stockpiles. Both strengthen Clan Urdnot, but in very different ways.

I did not know that. I like this even more now. Thanks JB!

flemm wrote...
That's it, really. Two modified missions and a
couple of other modified scenes and you'd end up with a 100% satisfying
level of presence and involvement for Miranda that could easily be
erased if she dies in the SM. No substitute necessary.

My hat to you sir! You've made my day. Now if only the writers think of this or read your mind/post and do it!

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, *we* agree about that. But we aren't the
writers. There seems to be some pervasive climate of "Paragon is right"
among the writers, else there wouldn't be so much Paragon favoritism.
I'm inclined to trust Mac Walters somewhat after ME:Evolution but he's
not the only one setting the mood, and there are quite a few fans who
would like a "Miranda Redemption plot". I'd hate it beyond all measure
of course. Anyway, the decision has almost certainly been made some time
ago.

I think Mass Effect is making an effort at not playing all of this straight, but then again you are feeling the favoritism after two games so maybe it's not fully gone. I guess I would say the "redemption" part already came when she quit Cerberus and I don't know how many fans outside this board will analyze her character to the extent required to come to a conclusion like yours i.e. "given the right circumstances Miranda might act as ruthlessly as TIM". So a simplistic surface view some fans might subscribe to is "Cerberus bad, Miranda quit Cerberus, therefore Miranda good", thus making it less likely they'll keep demanding more "redemption". Pure speculation on these premises though.
And maybe I'm being too technical but I thought "fallen" meant "start out on good, end up on evil" (simplistically). Miranda never started on good. Anyway at best she's going from darker gray to somewhat lighter gray. I don't think it's a concern.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:11 .

[CrutchCricket]

nitefyre410 wrote...
I always like the sister ship I did but the  Midway  works better... both  Normandy and Midway were  important battles in the  same war.   You  could almost say they were sister battles.

Good suggestion. I picked Thermopylae because it's a name in classical Greek, I was trying to go for convention and a connection though now I realize a) Cerberus is from myth, not history and it doesn't really have anything to do with Miranda.
I'll modify my original post.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:06 .

[AstronautN7]

A couple of good ideas were thrown around on the 2-3 pages (the Wrex idea and others). Very interesting and refreshing to read.

It also made me think what I'd like Miranda wise for ME3.

Suprisingly I don't mind her squad status (permanent, temporary or none at all) that much, if the following things apply:

Miranda voiced/faced again by Yvonne Strahovski.
a lot of interaction between Shepard & Miranda, both mission and LI related.
a happy end for them together in at least one of the game's outcomes.

What's your must's and what not?

[jtav]

Miranda to remain competent and ruthless when the situation requires. She must also retain her drive to do great things. I also want to see the side of her that's devoted to her loved ones. I want her to end as a big player on the galactic stage. The more interaction the better, but the above is more important.

And no miracle pregnancies!

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I'm inclined to trust Mac Walters somewhat after ME:Evolution but he's not the only one setting the mood, and there are quite a few fans who would like a "Miranda Redemption plot". I'd hate it beyond all measure of course. Anyway, the decision has almost certainly been made some time ago.

Doubtless, but I actually think it's fairly plausible that you might see both a "Miranda Redemption plot" and an Illusive Woman scenario. Reason being that the culmination of Miranda's character arc is likely to be the end of the Cerberus plot. That's not guaranteed, but I think it will be very hard for the writers not to follow through on this. Miranda and TIM are just too tightly linked for that not to happen.

Even if Miranda's only around for a mission or two, I would think she would join up just prior to tracking down her old boss.

So, the way ME works, there would be a few different options at the end. For example: once TIM is defeated, Miranda declares her intent to repurpose Cerberus assets, except for the tech used to create an army of clone slaves.

You have your conversation wheel:

Default Paragon choice: "no," leading to a confrontation with Miranda.

Default Renegade choice: "yes," which leads to TIW scenario. 

Paragon Persuade: "Miranda Redemption" version of the ending.

Renegade Persuade: TIW scenario + continued use of the clone slave army against the Reapers.

Something like that.

Modifié par flemm, 29 octobre 2011 - 01:16 .

[SnakeStrike8]

CrutchCricket wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
I always like the sister ship I did but the  Midway  works better... both  Normandy and Midway were  important battles in the  same war.   You  could almost say they were sister battles.

Good suggestion. I picked Thermopylae because it's a name in classical Greek, I was trying to go for convention and a connection though now I realize a) Cerberus is from myth, not history and it doesn't really have anything to do with Miranda.
I'll modify my original post.

They ought to call it Kursk. Or Yeggi-Sdtamnz.
From what we see, frigates all have easily recognizable battles that they're named after. What we need are a few ships named after less well known battles, and if we're sticking to World War 2, then they ought to come from the Eastern Front.
Normandry was still relatively clean. Sure, lots of Yanks bought it, but the Brits had fairly smooth sailing on Gold and Sword beaches. Even the Canadians didn't lose that many troops at Juno. At Kursk, we had thousands of tanks having it out while infantry stabbed, shot, crushed and cut each other to bits. It was a true turning point in the war, and I think it fits Miranda nicely.
If Normandy is Shepard's ship, and it represents the victory against all odds that gives hope to the beleagured (which is how I see Normandy), then the Kursk ought to be Miranda's ship that represents the naked violence and grim determination in the face of certain destruction without which no war is won.

[Dr. Doctor]

I sort of like the sister ship idea, Cerberus does own a major shipbuilding firm, so it would make sense there would be more than one SR2-class vessel in the galaxy:

Jacob: Welcome aboard the Midway Commander.

Shepard: She's the spitting image of the old SR2.

Jacob: The Illusive Man comissioned her after he found out the Alliance commandeered the Normandy. The captain mananged to steal the ship right out from under his nose when she made her escape.

(The pair approach the CIC, where a woman dressed in an officer's uniform is standing on the galaxy map platform.)

Shepard: Who makes off with an entire frigate without anyone noticing?

(The woman turns away from the galaxy map, revealing her to be Miranda)

Miranda: I do.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Miranda to remain competent and ruthless when the situation requires. She must also retain her drive to do great things. I also want to see the side of her that's devoted to her loved ones. I want her to end as a big player on the galactic stage. The more interaction the better, but the above is more important.

Yep, that's my "must haves" as well.

As for "must nots":
*Miranda indoctrinated
*Miranda reduced to someone who must be rescued.
*Miracle pregnancies. 


@Dr. Doctor:
LOL, such a scene would be epic.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 octobre 2011 - 08:08 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I'm inclined to trust Mac Walters somewhat after ME:Evolution but he's not the only one setting the mood, and there are quite a few fans who would like a "Miranda Redemption plot". I'd hate it beyond all measure of course. Anyway, the decision has almost certainly been made some time ago.

Doubtless, but I actually think it's fairly plausible that you might see both a "Miranda Redemption plot" and an Illusive Woman scenario. Reason being that the culmination of Miranda's character arc is likely to be the end of the Cerberus plot. That's not guaranteed, but I think it will be very hard for the writers not to follow through on this. Miranda and TIM are just too tightly linked for that not to happen.

Even if Miranda's only around for a mission or two, I would think she would join up just prior to tracking down her old boss.

So, the way ME works, there would be a few different options at the end. For example: once TIM is defeated, Miranda declares her intent to repurpose Cerberus assets, except for the tech used to create an army of clone slaves.

You have your conversation wheel:

Default Paragon choice: "no," leading to a confrontation with Miranda.

Default Renegade choice: "yes," which leads to TIW scenario. 

Paragon Persuade: "Miranda Redemption" version of the ending.

Renegade Persuade: TIW scenario + continued use of the clone slave army against the Reapers.

Something like that.

The latter part would be a Renegade shift too strong to be believable, given Miranda's own origins. That would hit too close to home and people would be justified in calling it out of character. Use a technology that doesn't hit as close to home and it might work.

Anyway, on grounds of fairness I can't argue against the presence of some kind of ending Paragons might like. As long as I get my more Renegade-ish Miranda, I can live with it. But what I hate is the suggestion that Miranda somehow has to make up for things she did earlier in her career. That's why I specifically dislike a redemption scenario out of the set of possible scenarios that would make Miranda more Paragon. I cannot see her agonizing over things she did in the past the way someone like Thane does.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
The latter part would be a Renegade shift too strong to be believable, given Miranda's own origins. That would hit too close to home and people would be justified in calling it out of character. Use a technology that doesn't hit as close to home and it might work.

Admittedly, that's probably true. But it was more an example of how you might get a set of different outcomes than anything. I used the "Miranda Redemption path" in the example, but I think the most Paragon ending might not actually work that way.

I don't think fans really want Miranda to be "redeemed" per se. But I do think quite a big chunk of fans would like to see her walk away from Cerberus. So, it might just be Miranda deciding that enough is enough, and it's time to leave Cerberus behind her (Paragon Persuade). And you find out what else she ends up doing in the epilogue.

Modifié par flemm, 29 octobre 2011 - 12:38 .

[wolf99000]

my only worry with her just being in the game for one mission is the final battle I dont want my shepard who is dating her to be staring at a photo like me2 what goes for all li that are not on the ship

plus if all her stuff is done by then why would she not be with the man she loves it could be the last time and with her line just dont die in me2 you would think she would want to be with you

[flemm]

wolf99000 wrote...

my only worry with her just being in the game for one mission is the final battle I dont want my shepard who is dating her to be staring at a photo like me2 what goes for all li that are not on the ship

plus if all her stuff is done by then why would she not be with the man she loves it could be the last time and with her line just dont die in me2 you would think she would want to be with you

Well, one mission really is worst case scenario. I think we all hope there's a lot more than that.

I'm not sure how they'll handle the LIs that only make temp appearances. I guess either the storyline will end during the temp mission, or they will show up again at the end.

[Skullheart]

Don't worry, there's several Miranda scenes. So there will be more than one cameo. (maybe 2 or three in the game, then the love scene and bye bye).

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
Don't worry, there's several Miranda scenes. So there will be more than one cameo. (maybe 2 or three in the game, then the love scene and bye bye).

Nothing but cameos would be even worse. Besides, several scenes can easily fit within one mission, as Miranda's loyalty mission shows (five scenes, seven if you include the briefing and debriefing). Basically, anything that reduces MIranda's presence to a mission plus the end game counts as bad at this point. It may turn out that not having her on the team for longer actually makes for a better story arc for her, but I'll only be satisfied with that if there enough additional interaction opportunities. And missing out on squad banter and on-mission comments, of which there is said to be more this time around, that would hurt.  

[jtav]

I'm so anxious about characterization that time on squad really isn't registering.

Another question: how hard do you think it will be to keep Miranda alive? I take it for granted she can die again.

[Skullheart]

mmm... that's true, the several scenes might be for only one mision. We'll found out in march.

And, wich scenario you prefer to introduce her in the game?

- Damsel in distress, where she ends saving Shepard's team.
- She looking for us, for some complications in Lazarus.
- We started an assault to one of Cerberus bases, but we found some combat betwen Cerberus forces. One faction loyal to TIM (or indoctrinated), the other loyal to mankind.

[Skullheart]

jtav wrote...

I'm so anxious about characterization that time on squad really isn't registering.

Another question: how hard do you think it will be to keep Miranda alive? I take it for granted she can die again.

High paragon/renegade points?
I believe that the hard part is to make your squad to trusth her. She can be killed by some character the same way Ash can kill Wrex without Shepard's permission.

Modifié par Skullheart, 29 octobre 2011 - 03:17 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Another question: how hard do you think it will be to keep Miranda alive? I take it for granted she can die again.

I think anyone can die. But it will likely be rather obvious which decisions might lead to someone's death. So if your first priority is to keep her alive, then you're OK. But if you want to make a certain plot decision a certain way *and* keep her alive, that might turn out to be difficult or even impossible. Persuasion may play a part here.

It's also possible we'll get a Virmire-like decision about who is on the team, with the one who leaves turning out dead later on. Possibly dependent on another plot decision.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 octobre 2011 - 03:26 .

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
And, which scenario you prefer to introduce her in the game?

(1) During an infiltration of a Cerberus base, we meet Miranda as she's breaking out of captivity. We team up and complete both our objective and the one that originally brought her here.
(2) During a mission where we're hard pressed, a mysterious ship turns up and helps us out. Turns out to be Miranda and her new team of Cerberus renegades.
(3) Shepard starts experiencing difficulties with her/his cybernetic enhancements, possibly even starts having strange dreams and visions, similar to those experienced by the indoctrinated. We seek Miranda out to help with this unexpected fallout from the Lazarus Project.

[jtav]

One thing I hope doesn't happen is me having to choose between Miranda and Kaidan or Liara. My brain would probably freeze.

[wolf99000]

well I did read on another forum so not sure how real the info is that there will be 8 full time squadmates so far we have not had 8 confirmed so I wonder if the li could be one I know bioware have said they are doing some new with them so could that be who ever the li is for the shepard you are playing will be on the ship with you

so if the li is not one of the 8 who are the others

Modifié par wolf99000, 29 octobre 2011 - 04:21 .

[jtav]

Well, it won't be as simple as "the LI." Some LIs are already confirmed as full squad members. Thane is a confirmed temp. Besides, even among the non-ME1 squad members, you're talking about four people to write dialogue and banter for. Ow. And it reduces them to nothing more than LIs.

[shepskisaac]

jtav wrote...

Well, it won't be as simple as "the LI." Some LIs are already confirmed as full squad members. Thane is a confirmed temp. Besides, even among the non-ME1 squad members, you're talking about four people to write dialogue and banter for. Ow. And it reduces them to nothing more than LIs.

When/where was it confirmed?

[jtav]

That leaked article that showed up a few weeks back.