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[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Miranda is, frankly, an ass in the scene with Joker. But a very human one. She seems to lash out when upset. It's a character flaw. We all have them.

Yeah, she's pissed and looking to take it out on someone. Miranda's like that sometimes

I do like JB's point about Miranda not taking it easy on Joker, though.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I've always been wondering what exactly she meant when she says that. What is it he cannot see? That someone wants it that way? That all too often people just don't care? That it's inherent in the way the galaxy is run? That's it's unavoidable? Or is she simply exasperated by the way he lets his moral indignation speak without asking for the underlying reasons? Or by the way he appears to be surprised by what should be obvious if you know anything about Omega - which he should?

A little of all those things, probably. Basically she is saying, you are naive: it's not hard to understand why things are this way, but you would have to question your assumptions about how society works and why humans behave the way they do.

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 03:02 .

[jtav]

We need a picture:

[jtav]

Is there anyone else here who regularly plays FemShep? The end of her dialogue upsets me. It's so abrupt. She's just revealed this gaping emotional wound, and I want to *do* something. But I can't.

[Ieldra]

Thanks, jtav. We appear to be a little lacking of Miranda topics to be discussed. I read that topic about Miranda's appearance on the general forum, but there was nothing in it that hasn't been debated to Alpha Centauri and back here.

Hey Bioware: a screenshot of Miranda in ME3 would be nice.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Is there anyone else here who regularly plays FemShep? The end of her dialogue upsets me. It's so abrupt. She's just revealed this gaping emotional wound, and I want to *do* something. But I can't.

Yeah, annoying. I regularly play femSheps, but since I tend to play them first, my latest playthroughs were with the maleSheps left. Currently restarting my main femShep in ME1. Can't say I'm looking forward to Miranda with no follow-up dialogue in the scene after the loyalty mission debriefing.  

[jtav]

I'm only importing the one MShep. Can't think of a compelling reason to do a second.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

We need a picture:

*snip*

Wow, that's pretty awesome. You've been holding out on us

Ieldra2 wrote...

Can't say I'm looking forward to Miranda with no follow-up dialogue in the scene after the loyalty mission debriefing.

Yeah, that's a real downer. The first character I rolled was actually a femshep, and the lack of significant follow-up here was really annoying.

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 07:31 .

[jtav]

It's from the confrontation with Jack. I have others but am too lazy to crop the black bars.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Hey Bioware: a screenshot of Miranda in ME3 would be nice.

It would. I tend to think we won't see or hear anything official prior to release, though. (Feel free to prove me wrong, Bioware, by immediately releasing massive Miranda spoilers )

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 07:40 .

[jtav]

January, maybe? You'd think they could manage a non-spoiler screenshot. Speculation is rather thin gruel.

May I ask a question about the romance? It's stupid, and possibly offensive.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

January, maybe? You'd think they could manage a non-spoiler screenshot. Speculation is rather thin gruel.

Well, you never know. Miranda is the type of character that could be used as part of a marketing push around that time. I suppose she could even be in the demo. But she's the one character where almost anything we see would be spoilerific, from her appearance to the very fact that she is fighting alongside Shep.

So, I tend to think that, large or small, her role is going to be saved as a surprise for the game itself.

At this point, Yvonne hasn't even been confirmed as the voice actress. That at least we might hear about some time soon, I suppose.

May I ask a question about the romance? It's stupid, and possibly offensive.

Out with it

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 07:50 .

[jtav]

Okay. Why import more than one romance playthrough? I can't see much of a justification for doing so. I've got one and I'm happy with Shep's other decisions. Why do more?

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Okay. Why import more than one romance playthrough? I can't see much of a justification for doing so. I've got one and I'm happy with Shep's other decisions. Why do more?

Where's the offensive part? I'm almost disappointed

I dunno. I guess it partly depends on whether there's more than one way for the romance to play out in ME3. There's been some tallk of that being the case. And it's already true in ME2, so it's a realistic possibility. So, I guess it's a bit of a "wait and see" sort of thing.

That's my take on it. I have three playthroughs, and I don't expect to do any more prior to ME3. I have much more time for gaming over the summer for one thing. For another, I just don't feel motivated to stockpile playthroughs. It will be fun to go through the whole trilogy, if ME3 isn't a huge disappointment.

If it is a disappointment, well, that's a lot of time I didn't waste

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 07:58 .

[jtav]

I suppose it's because I've gone rigid. There's a set of decisions I like and a romance path I like, There's a couple of choices I wish I'd done, differently, but mostly I just wish I'd been an Infiltrator instead of a Soldier.

Damn it, is that a reason for another romance run?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Okay. Why import more than one romance playthrough? I can't see much of a justification for doing so. I've got one and I'm happy with Shep's other decisions. Why do more?

Because
(1) I have four maleSheps with different plot decisions,
(2) Miranda is the only acceptable romance for a maleShep for me and
(3) I have no reason to play a maleShep without romancing anyone.

I don't yet know if I'll import all of them into ME3, but there will be at least two. The most important difference is the Council - alive in one game and dead in the other. There are also different decisions about the Heretics, and about the genphage cure, and about Keiji's greybox, to list a few which might have consequences. I even have a game where I destroy the base, but that's the one I don't really expect to continue.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 octobre 2011 - 08:44 .

[jtav]

I think my problem is that I have one way of doing things that feels right. That said, I am replaying. I want to be an Infiltrator.

[CrutchCricket]

Hey not much to add on the pages since I posted last. I kind of think the Miranda/Jacob relationship just ended mutually and although it was Miranda that actually voiced it Jacob did not disagree. I say this because I don't really sense any regert around "she needs a better man than I". He's a good friend but he just didn't cut it as an LI and he knew it. I don't see her as dominant all the time (in fact that might've been the reason she wanted to end it with Jacob). Shepard on the other hand can resist, can get the upper hand and that excites her. I think the relationship will develop with a slight tug of war, each side sort of testing the boundries before settling on a good equilibrium (unless they, you know die.)

Then this got me thinking:

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I get the feeling that Miranda starts channeling Mr. Lawson when she gets truly enraged. For instance I get the feeling that she's been on the receiving end of "Clearly you were a mistake."

When I read this I started thinking about what Mr. Lawson would be like. First off do you think we'll see him in ME3? I would think it's likely given the role he plays in Miranda's story arc. And along those lines I was suddenly struck with the idea that he should be played by Bill Nighy and in a similar manner as Viktor from the Underworld movies. This isn't the first time I've drawn similarities between Miranda and the Selene-Victor relationship (initially it was about TIM and how he keeps her in the dark about some of Cerberus' more extreme operations). But the more I think about it the more I could see Mr. Lawson acting in a similar fashion to Viktor, one moment savagely seeming to bite the very words he's spewing at her then the next he's totally calm but his voice is menace incarnate. Obviously it wouldn't be a straight character lift (I think Mr. Lawson is toned down slightly compared to Viktor) but I'd see the same mannerisms, the same ruthlessness and ultimately the same willingness to sacrifice their daughers in favor of a "legacy".

Thoughts?

[jtav]

So I am replaying my MShep. Think it might be worth it to RP slavishly agreeing with Miranda on everything?

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
First off do you think we'll see him in ME3? I would think it's likely given the role he plays in Miranda's story arc.

It's on my wishlist. As to likelihood, I think that depends on where he fits in the scheme of things. I don't expect there will be much character-specific material in ME3, compared to ME2. Nothing like the loyalty missions. We'll see characters appear where they are important to the overall fight against the Reapers (and Cerberus). If characters don't have any real obvious place where they fit, something will be invented so they fit.

Mr. Lawson could be an important figure in the Cerberus/Alliance story. Some revelations are probably in store for what the relationship really is between these two entities, so he could play a role there. It's possible that something like this was planned from the beginning, given "The Prodigal" title of Miranda's LM achievement.

I'm not really familiar with the analogy you are using. But I actually expect Miranda's father to end up being an ambiguous figure. He may have always intended for Miranda to want to fight to get free of him, as part of what would prepare her to take over the reigns of his financial empire. It's the one who gets away that you really want to keep.

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...
I'm not really familiar with the analogy you are using. But I actually expect Miranda's father to end up being an ambiguous figure. He may have always intended for Miranda to want to fight to get free of him, as part of what would prepare her to take over the reigns of his financial empire. It's the one who gets away that you really want to keep.

If you haven't seen the movie, it won't be obvious. But from what I'm imagining, Mr. Lawson is definitely not ambiguous. I wish I could describe it but I don't have the words to do it justice and unfortunately youtube only has badly edited clips set to bad music. If I find a sample I'll let you know.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
If you haven't seen the movie, it won't be obvious. But from what I'm imagining, Mr. Lawson is definitely not ambiguous. I wish I could describe it but I don't have the words to do it justice and unfortunately youtube only has badly edited clips set to bad music. If I find a sample I'll let you know.

Ok, thanks. (I haven't seen those movies.) I guess Mr. Lawson could end up being more overtly sinister and controling, though. It's just as plausible, based on what we know.

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Dr. Doctor]

jtav wrote...

Okay. Why import more than one romance playthrough? I can't see much of a justification for doing so. I've got one and I'm happy with Shep's other decisions. Why do more?

Some of us created Shepards that romanced Miranda under a number of different choices. Never mind the ones created to romance other LI's. I don't have a problem.

@ClutchCricket

I'm hoping that Mr. Lawson isn't going to be a repeat of Magister Denarius from DA2. Because having a simple one-sided villain is boring. I actually sort of picture him being a lot like Miranda, he is capable of compassion and is willing to help others, but at a cost (Miranda did say that he would get her whatever she wanted, but it always came with a catch). Like Miranda, he likes to plan things out to the last detail before committing to action. Think Lex Luthor.

[jtav]

Okay, now think you could come up with a way to do a Liara/Miranda/Shepard triangle that keeps everyone sympathetic and both relationships active?

[flemm]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
I'm hoping that Mr. Lawson isn't going to be a repeat of Magister Denarius from DA2. Because having a simple one-sided villain is boring. I actually sort of picture him being a lot like Miranda, he is capable of compassion and is willing to help others, but at a cost (Miranda did say that he would get her whatever she wanted, but it always came with a catch). Like Miranda, he likes to plan things out to the last detail before committing to action. Think Lex Luthor.

I think it could work out that way. We don't know much about him. All we really know is that he was trying to create a "dynasty," so he wanted the ideal heir for his financial empire. Even that last part is a little hazy, as I can't recall that we really know the nature of his importance, other than the fact that he is rich, and once supported Cerberus financially.

So, my thinking is, unless he is really foolish, he would know that raising a slavishly obediant individual, instead of an independant person, would not make for an ideal heir, no matter the individual's genetic gifts. He tests her, and the biggest test is whether she breaks away or not. I could see it working that way. He'd still be a bastard, no doubt, but with a twist.

From that point of view, you could write it so Mr. Lawson and TIM have been allied all along.

Modifié par flemm, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:19 .

[CrutchCricket]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I'm hoping that Mr. Lawson isn't going
to be a repeat of Magister Denarius from DA2. Because having a simple
one-sided villain is boring. I actually sort of picture him being a lot
like Miranda, he is capable of compassion and is willing to help others,
but at a cost (Miranda did say that he would get her whatever she wanted, but it always came with a catch). Like Miranda, he likes to plan things out to the last detail before committing to action. Think Lex Luthor.

Haven't played DA2. Anyway I wouldn't consider what I'm describing a one-sided villain. There are plenty of nuances and subtleties about a character like that, that make him magnificent to behold while still having no doubt that they are in fact a villain. I don't see why Mr. Lawson should be gray at all. He may be able to fake compassion, to shed tears but they would be crocodile tears. And while he may do this in general, by the time we see him, we know what he is from Miranda. So there'll be no pleasant social mask.

Anyway this is the best I could find. It shows his mannerisms and general demeanor a bit.  There was another scene I was thinking of where he chews out Selene (what I see as the Miranda analogue) sort of like he does here but more angry. She'd just broken an important law. After the chew-out his voice goes soft and almost regretful as he explains why the law's important and you can feel he's sorry to see she's broken it. The next
line he leans back, his voice as hard as granite and says "you will not be shown an ounce of leniancy" I swear that was one of the most menancing lines I've ever head. You have to stretch your imagination a bit.

Off-topic I would recommend those movies if you're at least partial to vampires/warewolves. Certainly beats what's out there today.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:20 .