82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

But seriously, our villains are the ones with vision. Shouldn't Paragons also be fighting against the Council and Alliance, but in a different way?

Yeah, I actually think it's a pretty good analogy. One of the reasons why the whole Xavier/Magneto conflict was so compelling, at least in its heyday in the comics, is you had really strong arguments and dynamic personalities on both sides. Neither was happy with the status quo, and both were really ambitious about trying to change it.

Their methods and philosophies were different, as were their past histories (which explained to an extent the other differences). They fought, but at the same time, they were like brothers. It's rare that you see that type of situation in pop culture.

Modifié par flemm, 01 novembre 2011 - 10:54 .

[CrutchCricket]

TIM is Magneto? You give him too much credit. I'd say he's Mr. Sinister, though nowhere near as personally brilliant.

Wait scratch that. Mr. Lawson is Mr. Sinister.

TIM is Mastermold.

Now we just need an Apocalypse...

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 01 novembre 2011 - 10:58 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

TIM is Magneto? You give him too much credit. I'd say he's Mr. Sinister, though nowhere near as personally brilliant.

Well, given a possible selling of his soul to the Reapers, that may actually be more accurate, but jtav's analogy is still pretty interesting, I think, as to what the difference between an ambitious Paragon and an ambitious Renegade might be like.

Mr. Sinister is like Faust to Apocalypse's Devil, in a sense, so TIM may go in that direction, I suppose. It sort of feels like it.

Modifié par flemm, 01 novembre 2011 - 10:58 .

[jtav]

I think it's pretty accurate. He has a good cause--Cerberus exists to fight the Reapers--but it consumed him and now atrocities are the order of the day.

[CrutchCricket]

Sorry for the repeated edits. I'll leave that post alone now...

CrutchCricket wrote...
Now we just need an Apocalypse...

....Reapers. Derp. I'm gonna go back to thinking before I post:whistle:

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 01 novembre 2011 - 11:02 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Sorry for the repeated edits. I'll leave that post alone now...

No worries lol, I do that all the time. Tinker, tinker, tinker...

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I think it's pretty accurate. He has a good cause--Cerberus exists to fight the Reapers--but it consumed him and now atrocities are the order of the day.

Depends where we are in Magneto's history, I guess, but back in the day, even Marvel didn't always classify him as a villain. (In Secret Wars, for example, he's grouped with the heroes and they're all like, WTF?)

CrutchCricket wrote...
....Reapers. Derp. I'm gonna go back to thinking before I post

LoL, we keep ninja-ing each others points...

It's hard to explain, at first glance, what would make TIM side with the Reapers. Only thing that makes sense is he gets something from them. What could it be? Immortality, I suppose. That could mean that each Reaper is actually the personality imprint of a specific individual from the "harvested" race in question. So, like Harbinger and Sovereign are the sole survivors of a long-dead race who made a similar pact with the devil.

Modifié par flemm, 01 novembre 2011 - 11:18 .

[MisterJB]

You can roleplay a Shepard with some of Professor Xavier's morals. Particularly situations like telling Ashley that if there is a God, he must have intended for the Galaxy's race diversity and saving the Council, thus proving that humanity can be trusted.

 

jtav wrote...

I think it's pretty accurate. He has a good cause--Cerberus exists to fight the Reapers--but it consumed him and now atrocities are the order of the day.

Also, we can make a loose comparision between the Turian ocupation of Shanxi and the German Invasion of Polony.

Ieldra2 wrote...
 However, I want to play a Shepard who *occasionally* gets the best results from being coldly pragmatic against all empathy, instead of always getting the short end of the stick.

Going a bit back but when does a pragmatic decision gets Shepard the short end of the stick?

Modifié par MisterJB, 01 novembre 2011 - 11:23 .

[Dr. Doctor]

The question I have is if TIM has the same visions that Shepard has and he's gone off the deep end, what's keeping Shepard from ending up the same way?

I mean, Shepard's seen the mass extinction of a civilization from its point of view, had two Asari root around inside of his brain, faced assorted eldrich abominations, been killed and brought back, and that's not including whatever background you chose for your Shepard. Liara does say that Shepard tends to supress his fears and doubts from the crew because he's supposed to be the one who leads them. How long until Shepard finally explodes?

[jtav]

@MisterJB: I, ah nuked the Council with my revolutionary Shep. Mostly because I think it's a gang of bullies and needs to be replaced. It didn't work out, but no harm in trying. And it might have helped a little, considering humanity works with the hanar and elcor in one news story and some volus are using us in our quest for independence.

[MisterJB]

Different methods. How many times did the X-Men had to protect Robert Kelly from the Brotherhood?


edit: I don't disagree with you in that the Council are bullies and that the government structure of the galaxy needs changing. I just don't think humanity turning its back on what are, effectivelly, the leaders of the United Nations is the right way to go about it.

Modifié par MisterJB, 01 novembre 2011 - 11:50 .

[jtav]

As soon as the game gives me another option, I'll take it. But, in ME1, Paragons are very much pro=status quo regarding the Council.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

As soon as the game gives me another option, I'll take it. But, in ME1, Paragons are very much pro=status quo regarding the Council.

I can get on board with that. The paragon/renegade system feels like a hangover from KOTOR that was thinking about going in a less obviously light vs. dark sort of direction, but ended up playing it safe and staying too close to the SW model. 

[jtav]

Garrus and Miranda, don't like each other and with good reason. Garrus us a hothead,. Miranda is bloodlesly cold. (Pejorative terns deliberate)

[flemm]

Bebe77 wrote...

srry if this is a little out of left field but i just have to get this out
i just finished a playthrough where i let some squadmates die
since jack got zapped by the occulus when miranda said she would lead the second fire team garrus chirped in with some nasty comment " I dont want u leading us no one trusts you!" or somthin and i wuz like wtf i kinda liked garrus (but that comment got him fed to the seekers) did anyone else find that appalling?

Well, he gets Jack's dialogue if she's dead. Probably reverts to Garrus because he's always there at that point (correct me if I'm wrong, not 100% sure), as opposed to, say, Tali. Somebody like Mordin doesn't make sense, since he's always been cool with Miranda and Cerberus. So, I don't really find it appalling, no, though I'm basically indifferent to Garrus as a character.

He's suspicious of Cerberus and the game allows you to roleplay lack of allegiance to Cerberus, so it's an opportunity to do that.

Bebe77 wrote...

fair enough...... still gonna reconsider keeping him alive dont need him pulling one of those when the reapers show up

Might be different in ME3. Devs have stated that you can roleplay Alliance/Cerberus allegiance, or at least your degree of loyalty to the Alliance, so it makes sense that some characters will not trust the VS and Vega (due to the trial of Shepard and other things).

Miranda would theoretically be a big part of that. But somebody like Garrus could easily be a huge critic of the VS. There's even some tension among the fans along these lines, so it wouldn't surprise me.

By the same token, he might be more sympathetic to Miranda now, given their experiences in ME2 and defeating the Human Reaper. Given that they are apparently the most used squad members in the game, it's quite possible they often do so together (you see this in fan videos and stuff a lot, anecdotally).

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 12:55 .

[jtav]

I resent Garrus for other reasons but he's allowed to dislike her and performs fine in the field.

[MisterJB]

flemm: Garrus can be killed actually. Then it's Jacob who says that most of the squad doesn't trust Miranda.

Anyway, I had Miranda lead the FireTeam with Garrus in it and they were both on my squad when Shepard chose to destroy the CB. I expect an apology in ME3.

Modifié par MisterJB, 02 novembre 2011 - 12:49 .

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

flemm: Garrus can be killed actually. Then it's Jacob who says that most of the squad doesn't trust Miranda.

Ok, thanks, wasn't sure. Odd that Jacob would be next in line, though the dialog is probably canned.

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 12:51 .

[Skullheart]

Any idea who is next after Jacob?

[CuseGirl]

flemm wrote...
By the same token, he might be more sympathetic to Miranda now, given their experiences in ME2 and defeating the Human Reaper. Given that they are apparently the most used squad members in the game, it's quite possible they often do so together (you see this in fan videos and stuff a lot, anecdotally).

how do they know that Garrus and Miranda are the most used? By poll or by some other way?

[MisterJB]

No one. Jacob can't be dead at that point.

[CrutchCricket]

Bebe77 wrote...

srry if this is a little out of left field but i just have to get this out
i just finished a playthrough where i let some squadmates die
since jack got zapped by the occulus when miranda said she would lead the second fire team garrus chirped in with some nasty comment " I dont want u leading us no one trusts you!" or somthin and i wuz like wtf i kinda liked garrus (but that comment got him fed to the seekers) did anyone else find that appalling?

He's allowed to have an opinion and that opinion is justified from his point of view. To him she's still just a Cerberus tool. He may never have seen her in action if they're not on the squad simultaneously and he definitely didn't see any of her leadership skills. So he doesn't even have the grudging admiration he might've developed if he'd witnessed those things. Check that scene when Jack is still alive, she comments but you can see Garrus behind her shaking his head in agreement.

A petty reason to kill a squadmate.