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[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I started up my revolutionary mShep. He romanced Liara and will be going "can't I have you both?" in the best sense of the phrase.

LOL. Wouldn't I love it if they actually said yes (did I mention I'm an anti-traditionalist radical....)


And yes, I also believe your LIs past and present, if alive, will be present in a scene near the endgame. We can only hope they'll make their appearance appear natural.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 novembre 2011 - 05:50 .

[jtav]

The funny/sad thing is that I don't mean it in a horny or disrespectful sense. I think they're just that awesome. Only bad thing about this Shep is that I killed Kate Bowman and Kaidan, so there goes two points for Team Organic. He's not going to have many people to talk to in the beginning of ME3.

[raziel1980]

jtav wrote...

The funny/sad thing is that I don't mean it in a horny or disrespectful sense. I think they're just that awesome. Only bad thing about this Shep is that I killed Kate Bowman and Kaidan, so there goes two points for Team Organic. He's not going to have many people to talk to in the beginning of ME3.

Ash will be there...so will Liara, Garrus, Tali, and to a lesser extent Vega and possibly the unnamed new female squadmate to be the equal of vega if only so we don't have a another DA 2 situation where is an LI which only females can mance( though I suspect Vega will be bi in ME 3)...

[jtav]

Like I said, no one to talk to except Liara. Everyone else is temperamentally opposed. I don't like Ash that much, but Shep's a Engineer turned Sentinel so pragmatism won out. I want more deliberate, thoughtful characters to come back.

[CrutchCricket]

Throwing out an idea: The LI that is rejected/ "loses" the confrontation gets indoctrinated later and comes after Shepard.

Basically this idea plays along the lines of a popular trope in Stephen King stories where a supernatural force uses/springboards off a common grievance to corrupt/drive insane the character in question. The character is under the control of the force but in their mind they are simply addressing the grievance.

Thoughts?

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 novembre 2011 - 06:23 .

[jtav]

I doubt it. I think the indoctrinated squad member will be universal because it's too juicy a plot and you'd have to write dialogue for eight different people. My money's on Liara and said indoctrination will be reversible.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The funny/sad thing is that I don't mean it in a horny or disrespectful sense. I think they're just that awesome.

Neither would I mean it that way. 

Only bad thing about this Shep is that I killed Kate Bowman and Kaidan, so there goes two points for Team Organic. He's not going to have many people to talk to in the beginning of ME3.

I'm replaying ME1 with my main femShep and I chose to bolster my faith in humanity by saving Kate Bowman, deviating from the earlier script. The thought of Delan surviving and Kate Bowman dead makes me sick. Kaidan's dead though.

(OT, but 3.5 years after playing it for the first time, I still find something new in my ME1 games - it's actually possible to get both morality quests without cheating. Didn't do it this time, but almost got the P/R configuration right (80% or one, 90% of the other, before starting Ilos) without even trying.)

Now I'm rooting for an f/f romance with Miranda in ME3. I don't usually play those romances, but if Vega is the new LI there won't be any viable males in the Mass Effect life of Rani Shepard.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 novembre 2011 - 06:30 .

[jtav]

I'd reply him, but I'm sick of ME1.

I don't think Miranda will be f/f, more's the pity.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And yes, I also believe your LIs past and present, if alive, will be present in a scene near the endgame. We can only hope they'll make their appearance appear natural.

I shudder to think how this might actually work in practice. I'm hoping the LIs that only get short appearances in the game break off the romance for one reason or another during their temp mission.

They might still return for the final battle, of course, but hopefully no romance flag. The chances of that whole situation being indescribably lame are just soooooo high.

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:38 .

[jtav]

They won't do that. Fans would be climbing the walls. And BW wants a confrontation.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
I shudder to think how this might actually work in practice. I'm hoping the LIs that only get short appearances in the game break off the romance for one reason or another during their temp mission.

Ugh. Really? I'd be up in arms about such a thing if it happened to Miranda.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

They won't do that. Fans would be climbing the walls. And BW wants a confrontation.

I'm not sure how much stock to put in that, tbh. I'm sure they'll be one of some kind, and it makes sense between characters who are on the ship together for a big chunk of the story (either squad members or Normandy NPCs). Reason being that you have roughly the same level of interaction with these characters, they are up to date on one another's involvement with Shep, they're involved in the same basic plot, Shep can be assumed to have interacted with them all recently, etc.

But having, say, Jacob, who you haven't seen since twenty missions ago, show up on a shuttle to complain about how you've been romancing Vega... I mean, that would be ultra lame. I'm exaggerating a bit, but the whole "Remember me, the guy you have no dialog with for most of the game?" scenario strikes me as awkward to say the least.

There's another possibility, I suppose, which would be having a visit to the Normandy for certain characters after their temp mission, if a romance is flagged, plus maybe a romance scene at that time. So, concluding on a high note. It would be a change from the prior games, but I think it could work, as far as the mechanics are concerned.

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:03 .

[raziel1980]

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...
I shudder to think how this might actually work in practice. I'm hoping the LIs that only get short appearances in the game break off the romance for one reason or another during their temp mission.

Ugh. Really? I'd be up in arms about such a thing if it happened to Miranda.

I personally think the LIs should have permanent squad member status, (as in if you romance Miranda in ME 2..then she can be recruited into your squad by choice permanently for ME 3, though I would expect you need to make some kind of choice whom to keep if came to say...Miranda and Jacob.)- since the other 5 members with exception of vega can be/are LIs to begin with...

[jtav]

Well they'd be back because it's the final battle--the choice and love scene would just be extras.

[Ieldra]

raziel1980 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...
I shudder to think how this might actually work in practice. I'm hoping the LIs that only get short appearances in the game break off the romance for one reason or another during their temp mission.

Ugh. Really? I'd be up in arms about such a thing if it happened to Miranda.

I personally think the LIs should have permanent squad member status, (as in if you romance Miranda in ME 2..then she can be recruited into your squad by choice permanently for ME 3, though I would expect you need to make some kind of choice whom to keep if came to say...Miranda and Jacob.)- since the other 5 members with exception of vega can be/are LIs to begin with...

Not sure about permanent - I'd like Miranda to do something big and important for the big picture while away from me. But long-term team members, certainly. Only if they're just team members without being integrated into the ongoing story with mission comments, squad banter and suchlike it will be a disappointment. Imagine having to write mission comments and squad banter between any of nine LIs and the other possible team members. Not saying it's impossible, but it's a huge amount of work.   

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Well they'd be back because it's the final battle--the choice and love scene would just be extras.

I tend to think that there's no way this could be handled effectively for characters that are only in the game for a mission or two otherwise. For anyone with a significant presence in the game, where you get to interact with them more or less the same amount as a squad member or Normandy NPC, that could definitely work.

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 08:40 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Considering that Casey tweeted that the writers just went over the romance scenes and that they represent "some of their best work yet" I'm not too worried about how things will turn out.

[naledgeborn]

Well don't expect them to say "meh, we did better back in so and so game". They're still trying to sell the game. But yeah it's a bold claim and I'm cautiously optimistic *is really hoping for a couple of nods to Kotor*.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 02 novembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[enayasoul]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Considering that Casey tweeted that the writers just went over the romance scenes and that they represent "some of their best work yet" I'm not too worried about how things will turn out.

I'm a little concerned how the romances will turn out.  I sincerely hope it's their best work because they need to improve on how they do romances.  I'm not satisfied with how they do them in all their games.  They build it up to you finally get the romance and game over.  WTF.   

I hope we don't get two conversations, love scene, game over.  That will just ****** me off.    Bioware has a habit of this.  I want my character to at least say something to each other before it's all over. I want to know what the future holds for them then a blank make up your own.  That's nice an all but I've invested time in this game...years! I could  have been doing something else. I want it to be worth the time spent. 

Thus, I think dragon age rocks on character banter.  I wish ME would do the same.  It's so lacking and I hope they really do improve it.

Modifié par enayasoul, 02 novembre 2011 - 09:36 .

[wright1978]

I have to say i'm very worried about the time romances will get. LI need time on screen and banter as well as the usual set of regular conversations in my opinion. I don't see how a temp squaddie can have a rewarding LI experience that does the relationship justice. Still just praying that Miri makes the squad for a longer period so i won't be throwing things at the screen at her getting sidelined into a LOTSB type quest.

[jtav]

I think too much is being made of the romances. Miranda's is six minutes long in ME2. Focus on satisfying conclusion to the character arcs and the rest will fall into place.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I think too much is being made of the romances. Miranda's is six minutes long in ME2. Focus on satisfying conclusion to the character arcs and the rest will fall into place.

It's partly with that in mind that I made my earlier comments about temp LIs returning at the end, though. The romance arcs only really work as part of the main story imo. It's a side effect of what the characters are mainly doing, and a natural result of the regular dialog exchanges. Like a bonus, essentially.

So I tend to agree with wright1978 that the normal amount of screen time and dialog really has to be there for the whole thing to be satisfying at all.

If that can't happen, then I'd prefer to see the writers focus on other things, rather than try to tack on a confrontation and a love scene. We'll see. I'm pretty optimistic where Miranda is concerned, but as a general thing, I'm really hesitant about the idea of bringing the temp LIs back for a token scene or two at the end of the game.

It would be an attempt at appeasement, basically, and probably a very unsatisfying one.

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:19 .

[jtav]

I'm saying something slightly different: be satisfied with that two minutes of content because that's all the romances warrant. I do want that two minutes as a cap off however, preferably at the end. And, in my scenario, it's everyone that comes back, not just LIs.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I'm saying something slightly different: be satisfied with that two minutes of content because that's all the romances warrant. I do want that two minutes as a cap off however, preferably at the end. And, in my scenario, it's everyone that comes back, not just LIs.

Well, quality really matters a lot. If it doesn't flow as part of the story, it isn't going to be an effective two minutes, or a good cap off to anything. This is something that would become obviously only once we actually experienced it. Look at how many complaints we hear now about how the romances are too short, not involved enough, etc., and that's with a a full set of conversations.

A lot of the characters returning in the end does make a certain amount of sense, but it is also somewhat of a separate issue.

Modifié par flemm, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:39 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

I think too much is being made of the romances. Miranda's is six minutes long in ME2. Focus on satisfying conclusion to the character arcs and the rest will fall into place.

Too much? I think not. How many of us would be on here discussing these characters (not just Miranda but everybody) if it weren't for the romance component? I think you underestimate how much stock some people have put in these "simulated relationships" to say nothing of how many people got into this series to begin with because of the controversy generated by the so called "scandalous sex scenes".

Extreme cynicism aside, the ability to romance characters not only likely encouraged the writers to make sure they were multi-dimensional and appealing but is also a huge driving force for continued interest from fans. I'm not saying they're Shallow Love Interests or that the fans treat them that way. Obviously threads such as this one disprove that notion. But while we might like what the characters are made of, the romance aspect is a huge boost in actually developing emotional attachment to them.

Look at Tali and Garrus. A large part of why their popularity skyrocketed (to infuriating levels for some of you apparently) is because people wanted to romance them and they got their wish. Would the so-called "talimancers" be as prominent or belligerent if Bioware had refused to make her romanceable?

I say definitely expand the romances, make them worthwhile, make them as endearing and captivating as possible. Don't do it at the expense of ruining what a character is or the overarching story. But do it nonetheless.

After all, isn't romance the poor man's indoctrination?