82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

What problem do you have with Mordin's voice? I watched the video only once. I thought something was subtly wrong with it, but couldn't put my finger on it.

As for squad banter - Wrex is likely only present for that mission, and his interaction with Shepard is very limited. One or two scenes of interaction, squad banter included or not, wouldn't be nearly enough for Miranda. Not even as a minimum requirement.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
As for squad banter - Wrex is likely only present for that mission, and his interaction with Shepard is very limited. One or two scenes of interaction, squad banter included or not, wouldn't be nearly enough for Miranda. Not even as a minimum requirement.

Well, I think jtav meant that we couldn't reasonably expect any less than that, which I think is true. Of course, Wrex will likely be back for the end of the game as leader of the Krogan.

Miranda has always been the most likely ME2 squad member to be on the ME3 squad for an extended period. So far, nothing I've seen has really changed that view. Where she would fit in the game as a squad member is pretty clear. Clearer, really, than where she would fit otherwise.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 03:59 .

[jtav]

I said it was a reasonable minimum expectation, not the minimum satisfactory. Given that Wrex is likely dead in at least half of all games, I think we can look at him as a baseline. And we're going to Tuchanka, so I doubt this is it for him.

And, well, squad banter!

[CaptainZaysh]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You mean you don't realize that the privileged and their children already have a head start in life and that they work very hard to keep things that way - to limit the competition by keeping opportunities unequal - for the next generation? I suggest you read reports about the correlation between social inequality and health, social inequality and the next generation's accomplishments. Capitalism is not the great equalizer, and the belief that capitalism complements democracy is a delusion. Human greed cares not a whit about fairness.

Personally, I don't really care that much about social inequality.  The benefit of the rich getting richer is that the poor get richer too (just at a slower rate) - the poorest people in my country have plasma TVs, iPhones, laptops, housing, access to the Internet, the right not to work, cheap and plentiful food, free access to medicine and life extending drugs, etc, etc.  If they crash their car, they get rescued by the same paramedics who would rescue a top politician.  If they get taken hostage by terrorists, the door is kicked down by the same special forces who would save a captain of industry.

So, yeah, they don't get to have first access to amazing new technologies.  But they eventually will get it (like they eventually got plasma TVs and iPhones), because capitalism incentivises the creators of amazing new technologies to sell them to as many people as they can.  That's the awesome thing about capitalism - it's an engine of development powered by human greed, which can always be relied upon.  Which is why it is doing what no human political or economic system before it has ever done, which is to lift billions of people out of genuine poverty in China and India.

And yes, if the price of giving billions of humans access to clean water and cheap energy is that some British kids are born into mere comfort while others are born into luxury, I am absolutely fine with that.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Also genetic enhancements are different than normal everyday technology. Like our everyday technology, in the end everything will depend on the price tag on human enhancements. And because the producers want to be spectacularly rich and the goods are so very desirable, they'll set the price tag high. Inevitably, a great many people will be left behind without having a choice about it. That will create a fundamental inequality at birth that will perpetuate itself through the generations if not severely checked. And because, as opposed to scenarios where genetic enhancements are not yet possible, this scenerio is avoidable, those who further it are acting in an immoral way.

I agree, at first any new tech has a high price tag set on it.  So the super rich get it first.  As a manufacturer you then run into the problem of running out of super rich people, so what you do then is reduce the prices so the next richest segment of the market can afford it.  You make less profit per unit, but you sell more units, so you get richer.  This process continues until everyone who wants to buy it can afford it.

It's like cellphones.  In the 80s you had to be Gordon Gecko to have a cellphone.  Greed and capitalism drove the cellphone manufacturers to develop ways to bring cellphones to the mass market, to the point where they are ubiquitous today.  Our access to cellphones today was funded by the outrageous amounts Gordon Gecko and his pals were willing to pay for cellphones in the 80s.

Yeah, in the 80s it was unfair that only the rich had access to cellphones.  But the consequence of that unfairness is that now everybody's got one.  It will be the same with genetic enhancements.  At first only the elites get them, but over time everybody will get them because the manufacturers of the genetic enhancements can be relied upon to be greedy.  Which I guess is what Gordon was talking about when he said that "greed is good."

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I said it was a reasonable minimum expectation, not the minimum satisfactory. Given that Wrex is likely dead in at least half of all games, I think we can look at him as a baseline. And we're going to Tuchanka, so I doubt this is it for him.

And, well, squad banter!

I rather think that Wrex is alive in almost all games since it's so ridiculously easy to convince him. Basically, killing him seems so unnecessary that I have a hard time bringing myself to do it. Which brings him closer to Miranda actually, who is likely also alive in almost all games.

And yes, the level of squad interaction is nice.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I rather think that Wrex is alive in almost all games since it's so ridiculously easy to convince him. Basically, killing him seems so unnecessary that I have a hard time bringing myself to do it. Which brings him closer to Miranda actually, who is likely also alive in almost all games.

Well, Wrex is probably alive in almost all ME1 imports, but he is dead by default in new ME2 games, which means he won't be alive in a pretty significant number of ME3 games.

This actually raises the question of who will be alive and who will be dead by default in new ME3 games. I tend to think they will reverse course on that (compared to Wrex) and make a perfect or almost-perfect suicide mission the default scenario. But I don't believe that's been confirmed anywhere.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:34 .

[naledgeborn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What problem do you have with Mordin's voice? I watched the video only once. I thought something was subtly wrong with it, but couldn't put my finger on it.

It was deeper. Not sure if it's Michael Beattie reprising though. I couldn't tell yet one way or another. Not enough dialogue to judge.

Yes everybody, my ears are that good,

[flemm]

naledgeborn wrote...
Not sure if it's Michael Beattie reprising though.

It's not him, at least I don't believe so, which is why people have a problem with it. There's some talk of it just being a placeholder, though.

[jtav]

Half of all ME2 players didn't import an ME1 game, which means he's dead in over half of all games. And I don't think they'll reverse course. They'll want to minimize ME1/ME2 references in the default, so I'd guess Garrus, Tali, and maybe Miranda and Jacob.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
Half of all ME2 players didn't import an ME1 game, which means he's dead in over half of all games. And I don't think they'll reverse course. They'll want to minimize ME1/ME2 references in the default, so I'd guess Garrus, Tali, and maybe Miranda and Jacob.

Problem there is new players will lose a lot of good content that way, assuming they have tried to give each character a proper send-off. But either is certainly possible.

Tuchanka with Wrex is better than Tuchanka without, but that's a tiny difference really. In ME3, if each "might be dead" character has a loyalty mission-esque appearance, then new players would be losing access to a lot of really good content by comparison.

If each "might be dead" character also contributes to galactic readiness in some way, which strikes me as extremely likely, then I don't think too many of them could be missing in new games.

It's even possible, of course, that Miranda will only be present in imported games, like Wrex. Not sure why they would pay Yvonne just for that, but you never know.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[jtav]

They lose content in the default as is. I think it'll be limited to permanent squad members only. You'll still be able to do temp squadmates' missions, just without them.

I think Miranda will be alive in defaults, to get more bang for the celebrity VA buck.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

They lose content in the default as is.

They do, but comparatively little. Basically Wrex and a few easter egg type things. I guess you might see a mix, where the more plot-heavy characters like Legion and Miranda are there by default, while characters like Samara and Thane are only in imported games.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 04:52 .

[Ieldra]

@CaptainZaysh:
I'll answer you in more depth in a PM later, since this is partly OT, but I think you're getting the problem: it's that unregulated genetic enhancement will create a genetic aristocracy anyone not already belonging to it will never, ever be able to match. It is in human nature to band together with those like you, so you can expect that those people will do everything to keep the privilege of their group intact and put the rest of the world off with lesser stuff, even in apparent defiance of the outdated economic theory you're using for your reasoning. We see it today in how lobby groups influence how laws are made, resulting in an inability of politics to do anything against the unchecked greed of the financial markets.

For any more political stuff unrelated to the effects of genetic enhancements, please use PMs.

Apart from that I'm in a romantic mood. Here's Cyrus Shepard and Miranda...

[Ieldra]

@jtav:
Yes, I forgot about that default setup of ME2. Never played an unimported game. I'd rather replay ME1 yet another time.

[Prudii Aden]

I did a default ME2 playthrough, just to see the differences. IIRC, the differences weren't spectacular.

[Phazor58]

I just watched some videos of the leaked ME3 thing, and not seeing Miranda in it made me sad

So I came here and was glad to see so many people in support of Miranda having a big role in ME3. And now I'm happy again, lol.

[Dr. Doctor]

So, after watching a leaked video of the ME3 demo (can't link, the video was nuked from Youtube) I can honestly say that Meer's voice acting performance has gotten much better. The best line he had was when Anderson orders him to go out and rally the fleets he gives the line "You forgot that I don't take orders from you anymore!" after which Anderson tosses Shepard his dog tags and tells him to consider himself reinstated.

The other point of interest is that the VS is in command of the Normandy at the start of the game (Ash is a Lieutenant Commander, Kaidan is a Major) Also Joker is nowhere to be seen, perhaps he stayed on with the rest of the Cerberus crew from the Normandy. Maybe this lends a little more credibility to the whole Cerberus Renegade idea.

[Ieldra]

Phazor58 wrote...
I just watched some videos of the leaked ME3 thing, and not seeing Miranda in it made me sad

So I came here and was glad to see so many people in support of Miranda having a big role in ME3. And now I'm happy again, lol.

Well, Mike Gamble said she would have a large role, but we'll see how that will turn out. MIranda still has a good change, though. Mac Walters said he reviewed several scenes with her and "the odd detail" about the Lazarus project. Hopefully we're in for a good surprise rather than a bad one.

I'd really like to know what the Bioware people think when they read this thread and see us worrying. Whether it's more like "Boy, are you in for a surprise", or rather "Oh no, what will they say when the game has come out."

[Ieldra]

@Dr. Doctor:
You don't seriously believe Joker won't be piloting the Normandy right from the start, do you? I would like that Cerberus Renegade scenario where the whole old crew plus Jacob and Miranda went off on their own, but even if we'll see it, I don't think Joker will be part of it.

As for the videos, you can find them here.

[flemm]

Phazor58 wrote...

I just watched some videos of the leaked ME3 thing, and not seeing Miranda in it made me sad

So I came here and was glad to see so many people in support of Miranda having a big role in ME3. And now I'm happy again, lol.

LoL. Yeah, well, we're all hoping for the best. Not seeing Miranda in the demo is not really surprising, since they have gotten to this point without revealing any specific info about her. If she's on the squad, it will probably be as the Archangel-esque "surprise" returning squad member. Which, honestly, I think is fairly likely at this point.

As I fan, I am still nervous. But when my head crunches the numbers and possible scenarios, I feel pretty good about it.

For example, in that leaked footage, you can see a Renegade dialog option with Anderson where you can roleplay no longer feeling attached to the Alliance (trying to avoid being too specific and spoilery). This pretty much clicks with what devs have said in the past on the subject.

So, you can roleplay being happy to be back with the Alliance, or you can roleplay in the other direction. At some point, somebody's going to show up in the game who represents that alternative point of view, and that's where Miranda should fit.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[Dr. Doctor]

@Ieldra

Joker left the Alliance remember? As for the rest of the Lazarus Cell I'm willing to bet that he warned them to get off of the Normandy before the Alliance commandeered the ship. Also, with the VS being a member of the command crew onboard the Normandy I'm wondering how the Alliance crew will react to having Miranda onboard

[flemm]

I'll be really surprised if Joker isn't there from the beginning. Arrival basically sets the stage for this with Hackett's line about how he's not even sure it's a Cerberus ship anymore.

The same might apply to other NPCs, though a lot of the rest of the crew can actually be dead, so I'm not sure how that'll work exactly.

Admittedly, it would be a pretty cool twist if Joker were off doing something else.

Where does Miranda fit and how would the crew feel about her? Hard to say. There are a whole bunch of possible scenarios. It partly depends on when she left the Normandy, and why.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Skullheart]

I'm wondering if the Normandy has EDI at the start of the game. We can hear EDI and Joker in the rannoch demo when the Normandy makes a ground attack.

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

For example, in that leaked footage, you can see a Renegade dialog option with Anderson where you can roleplay no longer feeling attached to the Alliance (trying to avoid being too specific and spoilery). This pretty much clicks with what devs have said in the past on the subject.

So, you can roleplay being happy to be back with the Alliance, or you can roleplay in the other direction. At some point, somebody's going to show up in the game who represents that alternative point of view, and that's where Miranda should fit.

Cheers Flemm. Been stopping myself trawling through those videos and limiting my spoilers to people's second hand impressions. Was worried that there wasn't a anti alliance choice from what people had said. As you say hopefully Miranda will be there to support my Shep in his attempts to distance himself from Alliance control.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...

Cheers Flemm. Been stopping myself trawling through those videos and limiting my spoilers to people's second hand impressions. Was worried that there wasn't a anti alliance choice from what people had said. As you say hopefully Miranda will be there to support my Shep in his attempts to distance himself from Alliance control.

Cheers

I've looked at most of the footage, and it seems pretty similar to the beginning of ME2, where you couldn't really affect the outcome of the intro, but you did get to say "Cerberus is horrible" and "I don't really want to work with you" a few times.

If the parallel holds, that should mean there are some more substantive choices that can swing either way later on.

Modifié par flemm, 05 novembre 2011 - 08:54 .