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[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Reading over what seems to be the journal, Miranda's mission seems to be third to last. Discuss.

Yeah, didn't realize you hadn't seen that part. It's what I was referring to when I said there are some clues as to when the mission happens, and they suggest it's very late in the game. Basically: Miranda's father (Miranda's mission, if she's alive), TIM, final battle.

I guess she might come along for TIM, it would make a certain amount of sense.

Of course, that list might be out of date, blablabla

[VStar]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the order of the journal entries. I expect the game will follow a similar structure to most BioWare games; you have the introduction, then the first mission/planet, then you have a selection of missions/planets that you can go to in any order. It's very possible based that the mission involving Miranda could be playable at any time after the first required mission -- similar to how you could do the Artemis Tau mission to recruit Liara in any order in ME1, or how you could do the loyalty missions in different orders. This meant you would have some squadmates sooner rather than later, depending upon how you chose to play.

And I agree, Vertigo -- the few snippets involving Miranda did not seem fleshed out or completed in terms of the writing stage at all. This could be taken as an ominous sign, but considering that some far more tangential squadmates like Samara had more-complete quests, I would simply think it suggests her plot points -- and indeed, the Cerberus plot points as a whole -- were not fully-developed yet.

[Eyeshield21]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

Reading over what seems to be the journal, Miranda's mission seems to be third to last. Discuss.

Yeah, didn't realize you hadn't seen that part. It's what I was referring to when I said there are some clues as to when the mission happens, and they suggest it's very late in the game. Basically: Miranda's father (Miranda's mission, if she's alive), TIM, final battle.

I guess she might come along for TIM, it would make a certain amount of sense.

Of course, that list might be out of date, blablabla

true dat, and it could've been made in 2010 or something like that for all we know.

[flemm]

VStar wrote...

I wouldn't put too much stock in the order of the journal entries. I expect the game will follow a similar structure to most BioWare games; you have the introduction, then the first mission/planet, then you have a selection of missions/planets that you can go to in any order. It's very possible based that the mission involving Miranda could be playable at any time after the first required mission -- similar to how you could do the Artemis Tau mission to recruit Liara in any order in ME1, or how you could do the loyalty missions in different orders. This meant you would have some squadmates sooner rather than later, depending upon how you chose to play.

Well, to a point, but there is actually more info, namely that the conversation that triggers the mission happens after "Cat 2," which appears to mean the second mission involving the Catalyst, which is the major plot macguffin in the leak. You can see the Catalyst missions in the journal entries as well, and they also point to a rather late-game appearance for Miranda, though there is some flexibility there.

Also, since Miranda's father provides the whereabouts of TIM, it makes sense that these missions would happen in fairly quick, if not, perhaps, immediate succession. So, there are several relevant clues.

Basically it would put Miranda's appearance in ME3 approximately where Legion's is in ME2 (give or take), i.e. it would lead in to the game's finale. That's not necessarily terrible, of course, if she actually sticks around for the whole finale. But anyway the leak seems to put Miranda's involvement within a pretty thin slice of the game. There's actually quite a bit of info on that.

Modifié par flemm, 08 novembre 2011 - 02:46 .

[Skullheart]

So we can only have her by 1/3 of the game if she is recruitable. I hope we have enough dialogue with her...

Glad to see that the moral raised a little.

[jtav]

Yeah Legion's situation wouldn't be horrible. Just give her something to do beyond victimhood. But I think her involvement ends there. My guess is the "fun, challenging scene" is the confrontation with her Dad, which will play out like the Jack/Aresh confrontation. I also think TIW may be off the table, considering the final choice seems to be whether to carry out TIM's plan.

[enayasoul]

flemm wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

That would calm me somewhat. However, it seems like that even if Miranda survives, she goes off with Oriana.
From what I've read so far, they couldn't have messed Miranda more if they had tried.

There's no real indication of what happens at the end, other than Miranda has a scene with Shepard, then Shepard goes in to confront the father. I have to believe, as Skullheart mentioned earlier, that at least Miranda would be there for that.

There's nothing at all about what happens next, though. She could go off with Oriana, and that would be that. Or, she could join Shepard's squad. It could plausibly swing either way.

Since the info you get from Miranda's father is the location of TIM, it's not too much of a stretch to think she would come along for that at least. Since that's apparently the last thing you do before the final battle, maybe she's there until then end. If you want to try to stretch it further, and put the "recruitment mission" at about mid-game, then she could still have a satisfactory role in the game, basically...

1) Rescue, scene with her father, Oriana subplot wrapped up.
2) On the squad for a while at least.
3) Scene with TIM.
4) Either she leaves for whatever reason, or she stays for the final battle.

It could still work like that. It's just that most of it would have to be missing from the leak. However, the rest of it plausibly would be missing, since it's not plot-relevant, other than TIM scene, of which there is only a small fragment in the leak.

So, that's the super-optimistic interpretation

Well, I don't find anything wrong with the 1-4 points you pointed out flemm.  Isn't that we've all been talking about?  Oriana is a part of the picture.  Yeah, another rescue but seems logical since Oriana had to be moved and cerberus knows where.  I can see TIM selling out Miranda's sister location to her father.  And I do want to see who this father is.  He's a mystery I want uncovered.  And a scene with TIM taking the basterd down! Yah!

I haven't read any of the links but after reading most of the posts, not all yet, and thinking it over while at work tonight. I'm not so disappointed about it.  I'm not about to click the rumor links. 

Yeah, it's optimistic interpretation. 

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Yeah Legion's situation wouldn't be horrible. Just give her something to do beyond victimhood. But I think her involvement ends there. My guess is the "fun, challenging scene" is the confrontation with her Dad, which will play out like the Jack/Aresh confrontation. I also think TIW may be off the table, considering the final choice seems to be whether to carry out TIM's plan.

Sadly, I tend to agree. Where Miranda could have had the most impact would have been in the Cerberus arc, but it seems she will have little involvement there. The other area of interest for the end of her story arc is the question of her father, and that's what the mission seems to be about. Storywise, that's likely it.

Potentially I guess she could join up, but there doesn't seem to be a strong reason for that to happen.

[VStar]

True, Flemm. The Illusive Man mission's description makes it seem like it's the only point-of-no-return mission, though; the Miranda's father mission happens before that, which means that it could be a situation where you have access to the final mission long before you've completed most of the game's content -- like the Reaper IFF mission in ME2, for example. It's also possible the order in which these missions are available could change as they are worked upon. I think it's pretty clear that Miranda won't be showing up in the early parts of the game, but whether she appears mid or late-game seems open for debate at the moment.

As for whether she joins up, I don't see a reason for her not to once her business is completed, but there's no intrinsic connection to the plot that forces her into your team.

Modifié par VStar, 08 novembre 2011 - 02:54 .

[Eyeshield21]

true, plus, if in the middle of the game, I wont be surprised if the VS becomes ticked off cause of Miri(especially Ash and especially if romanced. )

[jtav]

And it's galling. I mean, the director of Lazarus reduced to this. I'm still half-inclined to kill her. I also have some things to say about why this skeeves me from a feminist POV.

[flemm]

VStar wrote...

True, Flemm. The Illusive Man mission's description makes it seem like it's the only point-of-no-return mission, though; the Miranda's father mission happens before that, which means that it could be a situation where you have access to the final mission long before you've completed most of the game's content -- like the Reaper IFF mission in ME2, for example. It's also possible the order in which these missions are available could change as they are worked upon. I think it's pretty clear that Miranda won't be showing up in the early parts of the game, but whether she appears mid or late-game seems open for debate at the moment.

Yeah, like the Reaper IFF, there could be a bit of flexibility as to how soon you go after TIM.

jtav wrote...

And it's galling. I mean, the director of Lazarus reduced to this. I'm still half-inclined to kill her. I also have some things to say about why this skeeves me from a feminist POV.

It's lame, no way to sugarcoat it. Giving the benefit of the doubt, I expect the mission to be a bit more dynamic and interesting than it sounds in the leak.

Modifié par flemm, 08 novembre 2011 - 03:15 .

[jtav]

Not to sugarcoat it myself, what's so enraging is: What motivates Miranda in the end? Not her desire to prove herself or her belief in human advancement. Not even the desire to beat the Reapers. Oriana. And she's not even the star of her own mission. She's there to be rescued.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Not to sugarcoat it myself, what's so enraging is: What motivates Miranda in the end? Not her desire to prove herself or her belief in human advancement. Not even the desire to beat the Reapers. Oriana. And she's not even the star of her own mission. She's there to be rescued.

Well, I don't really mind Miranda wanting to save Oriana, but as her only involvement in the game, which seems quite plausible, I don't really see how this scenario could be satisfying at all. And I'm not sure where this would leave her in the end. At best she might have access to her father's resources, I guess.

Modifié par flemm, 08 novembre 2011 - 03:13 .

[drwells123]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Also, tali is now an admiral?

Goodbye Migrant Fleet, been nice knowing you...

"I'm surprised you brought the quarian, T'Soni. Her supposed leadership of the migrant fleet got most of it killed."

wright1978 wrote...

Well i go to the pub and have a few
beers and i come back and it seems the alcohol hasn't blunted my rage at
Miranda's apparent cameo damsel role in the game. I was so happy this
morning and even thinking about making the big step and pre-ordering the
game. That's what happens when you get your hopes up i guess. That'll
teach me.

Alcohol just amplifies your mood. A railroad-tie-sized line of medical-grade snow might be more in order here

Modifié par drwells123, 08 novembre 2011 - 03:20 .

[jtav]

If I had to guess, I'd say this was Miranda's scene list:

1. Rescue/Reunion.
2. Confrontation with her father
3. Normandy debrief/love scene

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

If I had to guess, I'd say this was Miranda's scene list:

1. Rescue/Reunion.
2. Confrontation with her father
3. Normandy debrief/love scene

Something like that, I suppose.

[jtav]

Just...why this of all things. I get a cameo. But why would anyone want her so diminished?

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

Not to sugarcoat it myself, what's so enraging is: What motivates Miranda in the end? Not her desire to prove herself or her belief in human advancement. Not even the desire to beat the Reapers. Oriana. And she's not even the star of her own mission. She's there to be rescued.

If this is the case... perhaps ME3's problem is that it has to somehow follow everyone from ME2, but doesn't really have the room to do any of them justice. Though what's probably worse is this insistence on the idea that the freaking last game of the trilogy has to be easily accessible to new people. Let them go play the damned first two games themselves if they want a connection with the story.

[Dr. Doctor]

The summary that we get of the mission irks me, if ME3 is supposed to work as an entry point and conclusion to the story, throwing Miranda and the majority of the Cerberus arc into the very end seems a little sloppy. Remember how the Quarians and the Geth story arc was introduced in ME2? We were reintroduced to Tali early on only to meet up with her later.

To me Miranda would work along the same lines, sort of like a River Song character that just so happens to pop up over the course of each act for a few missions tocontinue the arc along. Progression could work as follows:

Prologue:
-The Siege of Earth and the Flight of the Normandy (establishes overarching mission)

Act I:
- Initial missions to rally allies to Shepard's cause (go to Citadel, talk to Council, etc)
- Introduce Cerberus as an antagonist, start Cerberus arc
- Towards the end of the arc reintroduce Miranda + mission that advances the Cerberus plotline.

Act II:
-Continue overarching plot missions; introduce the Macguffin.
-Continue with the Cerberus arc, reunite with Miranda, go on a string of missions leading to confrontation with Mr. Lawson, where Miranda takes control of her father's operations. Allude to the Sanctuary.

Act III:
-The Hunt for the Macguffin.
-Cerberus arc: Miranda finds the location of the Sanctuary, but has come under attack from Cerberus extract her from her position to continue the arc (make this time sensitive, Miranda is only captured if you wait too long to do this mission)
- The Battle of The Sanctuary.
-Finding the Macguffin

Finale

That's how I'd write it.

[drwells123]

Xilizhra wrote...

If this is the case... perhaps ME3's problem is that it has to somehow follow everyone from ME2, but doesn't really have the room to do any of them justice.

Yep. 12 characters is a lot even for an ongoing story with multiple arcs.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Just...why this of all things. I get a cameo. But why would anyone want her so diminished?

Well, I can think of some reasons. None of them good.

When we see the actual scenes, this might end up being clearer. But honestly, it may come down to what the SB files were basically suggesting, which is that the writers' view of Miranda is that she woke up from her committment to Cerberus and her career and decided she wanted to devote herself to family, having children, and a normal life, like Oriana.

Unfortunately, the dossier does seem to have been teasing Miranda's involvement in ME3 very heavily, as it does for a few other characters. At this point a miracle pregnancy seems increasingly plausible tbh. "Unfinished business, especially if you romanced her in ME2, etc."

It is, I suppose, possible she might join up as a sort of surprise in the end. These games do tend to have someone join up around that time. *shrug*

Modifié par flemm, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[Terraforming]

Xilizhra wrote...
If this is the case... perhaps ME3's problem is that it has to somehow follow everyone from ME2, but doesn't really have the room to do any of them justice.

This had been my concern about ME3 for some time, but I guess I was just hoping that they could pull it off better than the spoilers would suggest. I know so much info is speculative but I still feel really discouraged.

Modifié par Terraforming, 08 novembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[Dr. Doctor]

I think that we're starting to encounter the restrictions of writing a saga like Mass Effect. It's hard enough writing a story with one set of choices (Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire, Dune to name a few) but when you have to work with multiple choices, love interests, and characters, whilst being confined to a limited number of hours of gameplay. Tying up all the loose threads, and character arcs is a challenge.

[shepskisaac]

flemm wrote...

Well, to a point, but there is actually more info, namely that the conversation that triggers the mission happens after "Cat 2," which appears to mean the second mission involving the Catalyst, which is the major plot macguffin in the leak. You can see the Catalyst missions in the journal entries as well, and they also point to a rather late-game appearance for Miranda, though there is some flexibility there.

Cat 2 is Thessia. I don't think the list really determines the timing/order of things happening, especially considering Cat 1 is missing from the list. Personally, I expect Cat 2 to happen somewhere in the middle, like Horizon, not very late in the game. Especially considering Thessia's been the first planet revealed in N7 Ops. Would they reveal a planet that would be so late into the game/plot? Don't think so