82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Are we reading the same thing? I didn't find it overly detailed at all. It still seems like the bare essentials of Miranda's arc with only a little justification given as to how they tie together. It's possible elements of this may make it in the final version (expanded of course) but not necessarily so. And where are you getting the location from? If you give me source material, please only give the line, I'm still trying to keep everything else at a distance.

[...]

I can see where that impression might come from. However it's still premature to assume Miranda will not get cool scenes, even if the setup remains exactly as is. The writers could decide the cell idea is too lame (or doesn't flow right with gameplay or something) and change it to match something like Garrus' mission- Miranda fighting a bunch of goons singlehandedly until you show up and help her push onwards.

Well, there are two separate things. How the mission fits into the game, more or less when and exactly where it happens, why, who is involved... that info is all in the leak and seems pretty solid.
 
How exactly the level will finally be organized is sketchy and, there, I agree, there is plenty of room for the actual details of the mission to play out in a much more appealing manner than the leak would suggest.

Modifié par flemm, 08 novembre 2011 - 06:50 .

[jtav]

I think the genie's out of the bottle, but it beats lockdown. Only, what can we talk about?

[naledgeborn]

There always Miranda...


and cake.

[jtav]

The problem is everything is tainted by the knowledge. Our most popular lines of speculation have been blown to pieces.

[PretaxAle95]

guys but there will be Miranda in the team or will make an appearance only in the missions? also has not heard from her in the documents where there was the story of Mass Effect 3?

[Ieldra]

Dialogue snippet:

Shepard and Miranda are standing in front of a blasted metal door. Prisoners walk by to be moved to the Normandy for transport.

Shepard: That was impressive. Would've given even Jack second thoughts.
Miranda *drily*: I doubt that. Remember those Ymir mechs? Thank you by the way, the distraction came at the right time.
Shepard: If you could've done that all the time, why didn't you?
Miranda: No point in it if the likely result was to be captured again. Besides, they put omega-enkephaline in my water. I metabolize the stuff faster than they think, but it still takes time.
Shepard: All right. You know the layout of this base?
Miranda *points*: This way. Can you give me a pistol? I'm coming with you.
Shepard: You sure? You don't look so good.
Miranda: You never coddled me when we worked together. Don't start now.
Shepard *grins*: So this is now it goes? You and me against the forces of hell, just like old times?
Miranda *smiles*: Doesn't it always?
Miranda *continues coldy*: But not quite, this time. I'm ending this - him - once and for all, and don't you dare interfere.
Shepard: We need that information.
Miranda *even colder*: We'll get it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 novembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[jtav]

Oh wow, Ieldra, I like your way.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
You understand this wrong. They want us to believe it's all bull****. Whether it actually *is* bull****, that's a very different matter. Maybe some of us weren't exactly rational the last 36 hours, but what would I call completely disregarding information that experience says should be mostly accurate? Well, yeah. In denial. 

I'll give you that things are incomplete and lack any detail. The reuniting scene, for instance, might involve Miranda making a good showing of herself. That would, of course, change how she's perceived dramatically and alleviate a lot of concerns. But you can reasonably depend on the scene actually being in the game. To say anything else without evidence is akin to believing in invisible pink unicorns.

I think they could do a little better than that if they "wanted" to mislead us. That's all I'm going to say about that because this is straying into paranoid talk. The fact that they're not outright dismissing the leak as false does suggest that some of it may end up in the final product. It seems likely they haven't deviated from the outline a huge amount so it wouldn't do to go on the record and say it's all false. And that's pretty much all anyone can say about that.

And exactly what is your evidence for claiming that particular scene is in the game? I pointed this out last night and didn't really get a reply. You're very demanding of evidence so clearly you should have some for insisting that that specific scene must necessarily exist in the final game. Oh and "past experience" doesn't count on account of the fact that it makes no sense. Forgetting that precedent doesn't imply causality, past experience in what? Past experience that a vague leak about Miranda makes it into the final game? Ridiculous. Surely not. Past experience that some part of spoiler leaks make it into a final game? Alright you may have that. Still doesn't prove that scene will be there. Just that some scenes will be there.

There is a difference between denial and reasonable doubt. I am not in denial regarding the probability of ruination of Miranda's character (and I resent the frequency of that claim). I am however introducing reasonable doubt of the certainty of ruination or even of lessening. And furiously disagreeing with its presentation as certainty thus far.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 08 novembre 2011 - 07:03 .

[PretaxAle95]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dialogue snippet:

Shepard and Miranda are standing in front of a blasted metal door. Prisoners walk by to be moved to the Normandy for transport.

Shepard: That was impressive. Would've given even Jack second thoughts.
Miranda *drily*: I doubt that. Remember those Ymir mechs? Thank you by the way, the distraction came at the right time.
Shepard: If you could've done that all the time, why didn't you?
Miranda: No point in it if the likely result was to be captured again. Besides, they put omega-enkephaline in my water. I metabolize the stuff faster than they think, but it still takes time.
Shepard: All right. You know the layout of this base?
Miranda *points*: This way. Can you give me a pistol? I'm coming with you.
Shepard: You sure? You don't look so good.
Miranda: You never coddled me when we worked together. Don't start now.
Shepard *grins*: So this is now it goes? You and me against the forces of hell, just like old times?
Miranda *smiles*: Doesn't it always?
Miranda *continues coldy*: But not quite, this time. I'm ending this - him - once and for all, and don't you dare interfere.
Shepard: We need that information.
Miranda *even colder*: We'll get it.

then will be part of the team or not?

[Ieldra]

That was not a spoiler, PretaxAle95. I made that dialogue up. And we don't know if Miranda will be part of the team, only that if she will, it's somewhere in the second half of the game.

[PretaxAle95]

Guys since I'm Italian I do not understand much English and the translator does not help me much ... I noticed that you're angry in front of the choices made by BioWare that you found in the text where there were spoilers of the story ... I explained briefly what is wrong in the choices made by BioWare, which may go against the fans?

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
And exactly what is your evidence for claiming that particular scene is in the game? I pointed this out last night and didn't really get a reply.

Really, I don't get you. It's there in the file, black on white, figuratively speaking! I mean, what better evidence can there be than an actual design document, outdated or not? If this was about Miranda saying this line or that line, that would be a detail I wouldn't put too much weight on, but a mission outline or a very broad scene description? I'd say if is in the file, the probability that it will be in the game is considerably higher than that it will not be.

Oh and "past experience" doesn't count on account of the fact that it makes no sense. Forgetting that precedent doesn't imply causality, past experience in what? Past experience that a vague leak about Miranda makes it into the final game? Ridiculous. Surely not. Past experience that some part of spoiler leaks make it into a final game? Alright you may have that.

Previous experience with leaks from Bioware games proving about 95% accurate in the broad outlines. And some knowledge of game development will tell you that it's extremely hard to make major changes comparably late in the development cycle. 

Still doesn't prove that scene will be there. Just that some scenes will be there.

My god, I don't know where you're coming from. I'm trying to get out of my pessimism, and you drive me further in with the incomprehensible way you put your arguments which I have to refute as a matter of principle, not content. Here's it: If past experiences say that leaked spoilers are about 95% accurate, we can reasonably say that any particular piece of information, as long as it's an outline and not a detail like a line someone says, has a 95% probability of actually being in the game.

I have never claimed certainty, because that's absurd, but for all practical purposes, a very high probability is just as bad. Where you do think "reasonable doubt" starts? At 99.9%, at 99%, at 95%? I say that's all bad.

[mineralica]

I wonder how exactly the missions development works and how material got into the leaked file. Because now there are strange situation where some mission are repeated several times with rather varying details while others mentioned only once.

I can guess that started with "how many main missions will be there, and let's not forget about giving each character a piece of relevance to main plot", then several concepts of side missions were thrown inside (possibly to avoid situation "empty at one moment and flood in another"), then all the missions were started to get details. And from what I've seen from missions which had several iterations in text, the difference between initial intention and final version can be wild.

So maybe at the time of creation of this version of designers' doc Miranda's mission just didn't get into focus of writers' attention?

[Ieldra]

PretaxAle95 wrote...
Guys since I'm Italian I do not understand much English and the translator does not help me much ... I noticed that you're angry in front of the choices made by BioWare that you found in the text where there were spoilers of the story ... I explained briefly what is wrong in the choices made by BioWare, which may go against the fans?

I'm sorry, but I do not understand the question you're asking. What do you want to know?

After the leak, we are...concerned about the direction Bioware might take with Miranda. Concerned that they may go exactly in the opposite direction of what most of us here wish for. We are concerned that Miranda will lose her competence and her capacity to walk at Shepard's side as an equal. And we're concerned that her screen presence will be so short that there will not be enough time to present her accordingly.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 novembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[jtav]

Here's a question much on my mind. What do you think the writers thought Miranda's appeal was? Just the obvious?

[Ieldra]

More dialogue (made up by me, no spoiler, just to be clear):

After the Reapers have been defeated. Miranda and Shepard are standing in the SR2, looking out on Earth. From up here, nothing of the horrific damage done by the Reaper invasion can be seen, it looks just as beautiful as ever.

Shepard: There'll be a run on all that Reaper debris floating around.
Miranda: I'm already on it. My people are out collecting the best samples.
Shepard *smiles*: Always one step ahead I see.
Miranda *smiles back*: That's what you have me for. Didn't you say you only blow stuff up?
Shepard *shakes head*: Can't you forget all that for a time. We've won, remember?
Miranda *leans into him a little*: Only when I'm with you. That's why I love you. And that's why you're an incredibly dangerous man.
Shepard *grins broadly*: I like the sound of that. 
Miranda *smirks*: Well, I have my ways of dealing with dangerous men.
Shepard: Should I take that as a challenge?
Miranda *deliberately declaiming voice*: It's not a competition.

Both laugh, then turn to each other and kiss. A hint of blue fire can be seen before the screen fades to black.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:07 .

[ubermensch007]

Okay, so my last post here was like on page 560 and now its on page 801

I haven't even really been lurking in the last month, but i have started to catch up on what i've been missing around these parts - so far i'm like up on page 570 or so...

So for now, i'll only be writing about what i've been reading; two things:

1. There was some talk about how Operative Lawson may be all but mission critical in order to take down Cerberus.If she's dead than your out of luck:

I don't know about that... From what we see in Mass Effect 2, it seems to me, althought Miranda is considered to be of V.I.P. status to the Illusive Man, that she is graced to be in his presense and he does not feel as though his life is in danger.With Aria, there is a different story.

But let's look at the facts.What intel or resources does Miranda have that could assist Shepard in dealing with Cerberus in Mass Effect 3 ?

- Miranda knew nothing about Project Overlord.

- She knew nothing about Project Firewalker.

- She knew nothing about the Pragia facility.

- She didn't even know that EDI had Reaper technology integrated into its hardware.

So for all intents and purposes it would appear that TIM did a bang up job of keeping Operative Lawson out of the loop...

So, how will Miranda help Shepard take Cerberus down? I do not know.The Shadow Broker seemed to be really confident about Cerberus ultimate demise and was in the works to bring it about.Perhaps by the time ME3 comes out Liara and Miri will be good friends and buisness partners.That could be a way for Miranda to be included in Commander Shepard's Iteniary...

2. Now about Miri's catsuit:

I love it (the boots especially) and see no problem with her wearing it.We must remember that as we today now have clothing that is fire resistant and bullet resistent as well.The defensive technology in the Mass Effect universe has reached a point where kinetic barriers are able to be placed in or on normal clothing.In fact when you click on the Squad Menu it shows us what type of defense each character uses.Some protect themselves with biotics, other shields and some use armor.

And another thing: Remember Kaidan and Ashley's talk about the Asari Commandos in Mass Effect 1.Alenko commended them for thier strentgh and agility while Williams was just like, "Meh.I'll stick with body armor."

Recall how Jack, Samara and Thane fought.Jack is fast man.She stays in continous motion when she's on the battlefield.Watch how she get's down on Purgatory.Do any of you really think Mr.Krios could have been crawling through ventalation shafts in Heavy Armor?

Lady Samara relies on her biotics and accute reflexes to keep her alive.

Physiology begets psychology: Body Armor can give one a false sense of security.While being lightly armored keeps ones awarness of danger high.And keeps you light on your feet.Jack took out four Heavy Mechs in a manner of seconds when she was in a firefight while she was "half-naked". I fail to see how having her dress like a soldier would have improved her performance

Modifié par ubermensch007, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:15 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Here's a question much on my mind. What do you think the writers thought Miranda's appeal was? Just the obvious?

I'm not sure, actually. I think it was mostly sexiness combined with the Ice Queen Melting trope, but I also think they knew some people would come to appreciate her competence and her genetic engineering. What I'm wondering about: was it surprising to them that so few people here - even among the "soft Miranda" faction - liked the possibility that Miranda might only want a normal life with a family and nothing more? We *all* want her to be more. That might have been unexpected.

[ViSeiRa]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Huh. Didn't think you would actually reply. Unfortunately you haven't done what I've asked so this will likely just be a waste of space. Still...

[1] No I did not read the entire leak. Unlike some on these boards I still plan to enjoy the game when it comes out. But that's irrelevant. Let's look at what you're saying. A rough draft from start to finish helps you evaluate character involvement? Really? Spectacular! Although not for poor Garrus apparently since he's never even mentioned. Seems he's just decided to pop out of existance for the duration of this game right? "Screw this Reaper crap, I'm peacin"? No? He does have a part? Well then I guess there goes your hypothesis. Tough luck.


Just for fun though, here's a rough outline for you: Farmboy hates his life wants adventure. Buys droids and meets old man. Droids contain distress signal from beautiful woman. Old man, farmboy and droids hire starship captain to rescue woman. Old man dies during rescue when faced with old apprentice turned evil. Woman is princess and rebel leader, wants their help in blowing up opressive government space station. Farmboy signs on while starship captain takes money and runs. Epic space battle. Farmboy about to shoot down space station, evil apprentice about to shoot down farmboy. Starship captain to the rescue. Station exploded, credits cake, win.

Obi-wan totally gets shafted out of an imporant role right? It's a rough draft from start to finish, clearly we can infer everything we need from it and our beloved Jedi mentor is basically just a chump doing an escort mission right? RUINED FOREVER.
Hint: That was a joke.

Garrus was mentioned, there are several versions of the leaked files, and I wasn't hypothesizing, we can evaluate the roles and involvement of the characters that ARE mentioned in the leak, or at least I can.

Maybe I should put it in a simpler form:
- Fans don't know anything about their favorite character thus they speculate about her role.
- Fans see leaked files that contain information about the role of their favorite character and they don't like it so they feel disappointed.
- CrutchCricket sees same information (debatable) and still denies everything and life is all sunshine and roses for him.

And if what you wrote above is a joke then let me be frank and tell you the joke is on you mate, you think you're smart trying to sum up an entire movie into one paragraph, let me tell you something you probably didn't know, the leak wasn't just one paragraph, it was multiple files containing heaps of information, and it's incomplete there's no denying that, but when it comes to Miranda, everything there's to know about her is in those files.

CrutchCricket wrote...


[2] I'm sorry, I'd be inclined to reply to this if it could in any way be interpreted as "an argument". Hell even if the argument was "cheese is good with ice cream" I'd respect that. Instead you've got exaggeration, emotional outburst and a personal attack. I'm sorry to say but the only sane reply is : u mad bro?

Let's not turn this into a flame war shall we? If you wish to make real arguments perhaps you can do so by PM. I believe this thread has moved on.

Personal attack? well, it was personal but it was also the truth, and the truth usually hurts, see from where I stand there are two types of responses to bad news and harsh truths, first there are people who get emotional but deal with the problem (like me and some people here) and then there are people who deny the problem even exists and try to escape reality... if you still don't get, I'm talking about you in that scenario.

And in all honesty it's not your opinion that bugs me, it's the way you present it... and I can't make real arguments when the person against me is acting illogically.

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Here's a question much on my mind. What do you think the writers thought Miranda's appeal was? Just the obvious?

I'm not sure, actually. I think it was mostly sexiness combined with the Ice Queen Melting trope, but I also think they knew some people would come to appreciate her competence and her genetic engineering. What I'm wondering about: was it surprising to them that so few people here - even among the "soft Miranda" faction - liked the possibility that Miranda might only want a normal life with a family and nothing more? We *all* want her to be more. That might have been unexpected.

I think they have a very conservative streak combined with idealism. Miranda's work was "bad" so she needs to be "redeemed" by our heo and  therefore give up her work. So I think the allure of the villain turning for you is there.

[enayasoul]

I don't really see Miranda giving up her work... she's helping Shepard take down Cerberus. Giving him intel. Can I speculate and say that maybe she's helping Liara in the Shadow Broker area? Like from the base? I would like to think that Liara and Miranda could be very good friends. They've worked with each other before. Why not?

[jtav]

Except we aren't seeing her do any of that. Yet.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Here's a question much on my mind. What do you think the writers thought Miranda's appeal was? Just the obvious?

I don't really want to speculate too much about that in the absence of detailed info about how her appearance in ME3 works. I understand what you mean, but it's probably a little early to start tearing into the writers for things that we don't have details about yet.

Plenty of time for that later, should it prove to be necessary

[flemm]

PretaxAle95 wrote...

Guys since I'm Italian I do not understand much English and the translator does not help me much ... I noticed that you're angry in front of the choices made by BioWare that you found in the text where there were spoilers of the story ... I explained briefly what is wrong in the choices made by BioWare, which may go against the fans?

Hi Pretax.

Basically, a lot of details about the story have appeared online. They are largely accurate, but incomplete and unfinished. The information makes it appear that Miranda has a small role in the game, and not a very important or appealing one. This may or may not be an accurate representation of her role in the game, since quite a bit of information about the game is missing.

I hope that works with the translator. Anything more I can explain in detail via private message.

Modifié par flemm, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[WardenMaster]

look at this mirimancers! \\/