82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

naledgeborn wrote...
On a serious note, can't blame the concept of birth or re-birth for being associated with a happy ending. People usually want to walk away from a story with their belief in hope intact.

Also associating babies with happiness probably has roots in biological instinct- you know reproduction and all that.

Personally I want Miranda to have a kid with Shepard (after the cure of course) and do the whole happy family thing. At least in one ending. Funny, I maintain one "main canon" line based mostly on my first playthrough with everything else as merely alternate universes or just variations I wanted to see but don't acknowledge as happening. And yet it's the overall ending that truly diverges for me. I suppose I just haven't picked one for the main line yet. Cross that bridge when I get to it I guess.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I think that's exactly what bothers Ieldra. ME has 21th century mores. Think how much things have changed from 1850 to now and tell me that's plausible.

Exactly. It's a common flaw in space opera to ignore the effects of technological change and scientific advancement on the way we live and the way we see things. Either the writers blithely assume that everything stays the same or deliberately ignore this aspect because it might offend some stuck-up conservatives. I could't say which I find more annoying. 

And they're already behind their times. Half the people *I* know these days don't see marriage as normal even if they want children - and I'm not even of the younger generation. As for natural conception - other than that it's more fun and costs less money, it has nothing to recommend it over more artificial means. I find the implication that you're somehow lesser if you're a Gattaca Baby highly insulting. 

I'd like Miranda to learn that she's fine as who and what she is, that using technology to have children (and enhance them genetically) is Not A Problem ™ as long as you love them and care for them. More to the point, I'd find it fitting if at some point, Oriana told Miranda that she appreciates that Miranda got her away from their father, but other than that, she doesn't want a normal family life, then went off to have a less conventionally normal lifestyle.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Exactly. It's a common flaw in space opera to ignore the effects of technological change and scientific advancement on the way we live and the way we see things. Either the writers blithely assume that everything stays the same or deliberately ignore this aspect because it might offend some stuck-up conservatives. I could't say which I find more annoying. 

I don't know, what have advancements in science and technology done to change family structure in the past 200 years? Earlier I pointed out that while values or other details might change, on average (in Western Society) it's still mother-father-kids: no change in structure. Marriage (a separate issue), how it's done and understood has changed noticeably but can this be attributed to tech?

I don't think anyone should be blamed for wanting some "family life" ideal, whether it's labeled normal or not. Certainly it shouldn't be forced on them but choice is what we want here right?

*Edited for clarity

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 09 novembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...


And they're already behind their times. Half the people *I* know these days don't see marriage as normal even if they want children - and I'm not even of the younger generation. As for natural conception - other than that it's more fun and costs less money, it has nothing to recommend it over more artificial means. I find the implication that you're somehow lesser if you're a Gattaca Baby highly insulting. 

I'd like Miranda to learn that she's fine as who and what she is, that using technology to have children (and enhance them genetically) is Not A Problem ™ as long as you love them and care for them. More to the point, I'd find it fitting if at some point, Oriana told Miranda that she appreciates that Miranda got her away from their father, but other than that, she doesn't want a normal family life, then went off to have a less conventionally normal lifestyle.

Well I will say, I like very much the idea that if Miranda and Shepard were able to have biological children of their own, that they go for natural conception. It's got nothing to do with the fact that she's less human or whatever. Because if we were to go down that road, Shepard with his cybernetic enhancments and Space Jesus status would be tarred with the same brush as well. Maybe they'd see it as an affirmation of their human roots, as a means to better form an emotional connection with their family, or if you will, the proverbial middle finger to those who think them as less than human. In a world where the primal notions of biological identity is in such a constant flux, human is as human as you make it.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
I don't think anyone should be blamed for wanting some "family life" ideal, whether it's labeled normal or not. Certainly it shouldn't be forced on them but choice is what we want here right?

It's not that anyone wants a "family life" ideal I object to. It's the
implication that if you don't have it, you're lacking something.

And yes, I would like to have a choice in this. If I can talk Miranda out of that mindset, I will. And *then* proceed to cure her infertility and raise the possibility again.

[Xilizhra]

It seems as though Miranda was raised with an emphasis on how everything good about her, she was given by her father. Her self-esteem issues seem to largely be a product of environment.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It's not that anyone wants a "family life" ideal I object to. It's the
implication that if you don't have it, you're lacking something.

But if you want something but don't have it, aren't you in fact lacking something, namely that which you want but don't have?

Of course, not "lacking" in the way I think you mean it, that you're a lesser being for not having it.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...

It seems as though Miranda was raised with an emphasis on how everything good about her, she was given by her father. Her self-esteem issues seem to largely be a product of environment.

But was that enforced upon her? Or just conclusions that she drew based on what she saw?

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It seems as though Miranda was raised with an emphasis on how everything good about her, she was given by her father. Her self-esteem issues seem to largely be a product of environment.

But was that enforced upon her? Or just conclusions that she drew based on what she saw?

If the former, I wouldn't be surprised.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
If the former, I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't know. It wouldn't be very productive to create a legacy with no self-confidence who thinks its just a tool.

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


And they're already behind their times. Half the people *I* know these days don't see marriage as normal even if they want children - and I'm not even of the younger generation. As for natural conception - other than that it's more fun and costs less money, it has nothing to recommend it over more artificial means. I find the implication that you're somehow lesser if you're a Gattaca Baby highly insulting. 

I'd like Miranda to learn that she's fine as who and what she is, that using technology to have children (and enhance them genetically) is Not A Problem ™ as long as you love them and care for them. More to the point, I'd find it fitting if at some point, Oriana told Miranda that she appreciates that Miranda got her away from their father, but other than that, she doesn't want a normal family life, then went off to have a less conventionally normal lifestyle.

Well I will say, I like very much the idea that if Miranda and Shepard were able to have biological children of their own, that they go for natural conception. It's got nothing to do with the fact that she's less human or whatever. Because if we were to go down that road, Shepard with his cybernetic enhancments and Space Jesus status would be tarred with the same brush as well. Maybe they'd see it as an affirmation of their human roots, as a means to better form an emotional connection with their family, or if you will, the proverbial middle finger to those who think them as less than human. In a world where the primal notions of biological identity is in such a constant flux, human is as human as you make it.

I agree with this. It doesn't change what I was talking about though. The difference is this:

If *they* prefer it, it's very much OK. If the game tells us, in it's usually anvilicious ways, that it *is* to be preferred, then that's not OK. I see too much of the mindset that "genetic engineering is bad" and "nature knows best" in Miranda's story arc. I want a counterpoint to that. 

[jtav]

There's additional info in the spoiler group.

[CrutchCricket]

randy06 wrote...

I just remembered seeing this pic this morning and thinking "this would be great for a 'caption this image' type of game!"

Any takers?

Edit* I suppose I should start it:

"Creative" Uses of Mass Effect Fields? Shepard you're not serious!"

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 09 novembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[Ieldra]

randy06 wrote...

jtav wrote...

There's additional info in the spoiler group.

where?

Miranda in ME3 pre-release spoiler discussion group. Send a membership request if you want in. And everyone, please keep spoilers out of the thread.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 novembre 2011 - 08:09 .

[CrutchCricket]

"At first glance"?

Actually it could also work as an "I see what you did there" image.

[jtrook]

"Mmmm...This store is alright"

[MisterJB]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Actually it could also work as an "I see what you did there" image.

This one is better, IMO.



"Miranda sees what you did there."

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
Actually it could also work as an "I see what you did there" image.

This one is better, IMO.
*pic*
"Miranda sees what you did there."

That seems more like "You win this round ****hole."

[The Elder King]

About the marriage and the children topic, I don't care much (if they'll give us a scientifical explanation/cure for Miranda's fertility). As long as in the epilogue she continues to work for advancing humanity, with the TIW scenario or the Foundation scenario, I'm fine with ther having chidren and (possibly) marrying Shepard. I think that they should make this optional though, depending on some dialogue choices.

[MisterJB]

Wallpaper from psychicsocial:

http://psychicsocial...ass effect&qo=7

[flemm]

Wow, awesome! Thanks for posting, JB!

Modifié par flemm, 09 novembre 2011 - 10:55 .