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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#20426
Ieldra

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flemm wrote...
Well, the original leak and the more developed script we have now corroborate each other. The game is likely to corroborate both, as far as the structure of Miranda's appearance is concerned. Endgame is where there is perhaps some room for more Miranda material. Maybe.

You know why I'm cautiosly optimistic? Because of the pattern of giving closure to even minor story arcs I'm seeing. I've seen content related to a minor Citadel sidequest in ME1 (and no, no reporters were involved), one I'd never thought would be referenced again. If they're doing that, leaving out important aspects of major characters would surprise me very much. So I'm not judging from what I see only but also from what I can reasonably expect to exist given the evidence. 

A missing endgame presence would be an epic disappointment, I agree. I can see a way how they could wriggle out of having to include one while still giving closure to that story arc. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.   

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Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 novembre 2011 - 08:25 .


#20427
Ieldra

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Dr. Doctor wrote...

Skullheart wrote...
Too bad that Miranda doesn't have any banter.


That might not necessarily be the case. What we saw was a rough draft of the storyline, while some banter might be fleshed out already (because it requires certain positioning, animations, etc) the entirety of the dialogue might not exist yet. Of course considering that there's a pan-galactic war going on date night might need to be put on hold:

Miranda: (ejects clip from SMG) You always take me to the nicest places!

Shepard: (lobbing a grenade a husk) We'll always have Paris!

Miranda: You've been dying to say that haven't you?

:lol:

Unfortunately, the probability for such a thing appears slim at the moment. 

#20428
wright1978

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Skullheart wrote...

Why Tali? She is already favored in the game.
Mmmm... speaking of Tali, I hate her. For some of her lines.


I didn't used to hate her. Now i do due to the favouritsim she has got.

#20429
The Elder King

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flemm wrote...

As a broader point, the ME2-specific characters are all marginalized to a greater extent than I'm comfortable with.


Agreed. But I have to say that it's expected. The team was too large and the variables with the SM make impossible to give all of them enough space (but what they did with Jacob is unforgivable, imo. They screwed his fanbase in the same way the DA team screwed Ander's<_<).
This logic doesn't work for Tali and Garrus, though. I mean, I like them (Garrus is one of my favourite squadmates), but they could've chosen ME2-specific squadmates for the squad, and put on the same place ME and ME2 (Liara and VS from ME and two ME2-specific squadmatres from ME2). And in Tali's case, with the role they decided to give them in the Flotilla, it could've been just fine to put her outside the squad.


About Tali, her hate for Miranda is reasonable, since she was a Cerberus loyalist, and Tali hates Cerberus. She could've been the perfect Jack's replacement for questioning Miranda's leading role on the SM, instead of Garrus.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 novembre 2011 - 09:51 .


#20430
wright1978

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hhh89 wrote...

Agreed. But I have to say that it's expected. The team was too large and the variables with the SM make impossible to give all of them enough space (but what they did with Jacob is unforgivable, imo. They screwed his fanbase in the same way the DA team screwed Ander's<_<).
.....
About Tali, her hate for Miranda is reasonable, since she was a Cerberus loyalist, and Tali hates Cerberus. She could've been the perfect Jack's replacement for questioning Miranda's leading role on the SM, instead of Garrus.


Expected, no i was expecting them to try and inject an element of choice into the squaddie system. So Tali and Garrus are dead in your import, well that's your fault apparently, you just have 2 less squaddies.

Yeah i don't have a problem with Tali's dislike of Miranda or Jack's for that matter. I don't want everyone to be nicey nice to  eachother.

#20431
The Elder King

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wright1978 wrote...


Expected, no i was expecting them to try and inject an element of choice into the squaddie system. So Tali and Garrus are dead in your import, well that's your fault apparently, you just have 2 less squaddies.

Yeah i don't have a problem with Tali's dislike of Miranda or Jack's for that matter. I don't want everyone to be nicey nice to  eachother.



Sorry, I should've said that it was expected for me. I though that they're going to put only 2-3 squadmates from ME2 on the squad. I hoped that they choose someone else, since we already had Tali and Garrus in the squad for two games.
The element of choice into the squaddie system is very difficult to implement.

#20432
wright1978

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hhh89 wrote...

Sorry, I should've said that it was expected for me. I though that they're going to put only 2-3 squadmates from ME2 on the squad. I hoped that they choose someone else, since we already had Tali and Garrus in the squad for two games.
The element of choice into the squaddie system is very difficult to implement.


I get that it would be very difficult but i don't think it would be impossible. Those squaddies might get less in terms of dialogue and banter than the core team. The difference is that i'll play the game and stick it in a drawer now and that'll be it. If they'd managed to put in an element of choice i'd likely end up raving to everyone i meet about the game and the series and more importantly about the amazing company that created it.

#20433
Ticktank

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Miranda still an email chain after next leak. Her fans need to rage harder!

#20434
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Ticktank wrote...

Miranda still an email chain after next leak. Her fans need to rage harder!


In the leak there are more than email. And from what I heard the email thing could be as Hackett's conversation with Shepard at the beginning of the Arrival dlc.

#20435
Hillbillyshep

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Hopefully BW would just simply go something like this with the squadmates:
Permanent-Core-squad: VS, Vega and Liara
Additional Permanent Squadmates, or Permanent+: Garrus, Tali, Miranda and 2 more.(Jack and Grunt?)
8 would be a good enough of a number.

#20436
alxboss78

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Guys sorry to be a bother, i have read some pages where the shift of the mood turned from negative to positive over some new leaks concerning Miranda's rols, but from what i understand we still have no clue about her status (recruitable, permanent etc) and her screentime. Just that her "recruiting mission" takes place after the middle of the game. But after that will we be able to keep her in the party till the end game? Or will she only be available for that specific part of missions that concern her (like Liara - Shadow borker)?? Would be grateful for a spoiler-free answer from someone who has knows...

#20437
Ieldra

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wright1978 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Sorry, I should've said that it was expected for me. I though that they're going to put only 2-3 squadmates from ME2 on the squad. I hoped that they choose someone else, since we already had Tali and Garrus in the squad for two games.
The element of choice into the squaddie system is very difficult to implement.


I get that it would be very difficult but i don't think it would be impossible. Those squaddies might get less in terms of dialogue and banter than the core team. The difference is that i'll play the game and stick it in a drawer now and that'll be it. If they'd managed to put in an element of choice i'd likely end up raving to everyone i meet about the game and the series and more importantly about the amazing company that created it.

I agree that the technical difficulties are very much surmountable. For instance, I know from my BG2 modding days how comparably easy it is to insert banter dependent on the presence of certain characters. ME's cinematic style makes it a little harder to implement, and of course everything needs to be recorded, but there are enough generic poses and animations in the game, and given what effect you could get for even very few lines of banter I'd think it would be worth the resources. To think that we might never get the epic Miranda/Ashley banter everyone envisioned is very disappointing.

However, I also want to say that I find it very appropriate for Miranda to be absent for extended periods of time. She is an indepedent agent with no faction loyalty anymore, and I think we all like her that way. It is something I can justify in my head even while disliking it from the player's viewpoint. And should she do something that influences the outcome of the war while she's absent - all on her own - well, I'd wear a smile as broad as Joker's when he finished the flight academy.  

What I greatly resent - as flemm does - is the general sidelining of the ME2-exclusive characters combined with the Tali/Garrus/Liara favoritism. Miranda might actually end off luckier than most in comparison, but it's still jarring. Particulary with Garrus, who never showed any main story significance whatsoever and always was the guy who tagged along. I guess that makes him easy to integrate into the team since he has no other obligations, unlike Tali. 

Whatever we'll get in the end, since the developers said that they want to tie off all loose ends, these are Miranda's ends that must be tied up or the conclusion won't be satisfactory. Originally posted by flemm on the spoiler group, I'll put this here in a non-spoilery version that doesn't take into account what most of us here already know:

1. Miranda must confront her old boss, the Illusive Man. The encounter should shed light on her motivations for joining Cerberus and for leaving them again (if you kept the Collector base). Possibly there could be different Mirandas depending on Shepard's prompts or earlier decisions.
2. Miranda must confront the ghost of her father or the actual person. This should shed light on her views of her genetic enhancements. More possibilities of different Mirandas here.
3. In the romance, Shepard and Miranda must resolve what they are to each other and what they expect for their future together, if any. This should influence what will happen in the epilogue, if there is one. A romance scene is a must.
4. The question of Miranda's infertility should be resolved. An option for Miranda to find a way to reverse it is desirable.
5. Oriana's plotline must be resolved, possibly in combination with (2).

@alxboss78:
May I refer you to the Miranda in ME3 pre-release spoiler discussion group. The first post of the thread "The Verdict" summarizes what we know - in a very preliminary way - in a low-spoiler version.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 novembre 2011 - 12:52 .


#20438
Ieldra

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Hillbillyshep wrote...
Hopefully BW would just simply go something like this with the squadmates:
Permanent-Core-squad: VS, Vega and Liara
Additional Permanent Squadmates, or Permanent+: Garrus, Tali, Miranda and 2 more.(Jack and Grunt?)
8 would be a good enough of a number.

Actually, it's Liara, Ashley/Kaidan, Garrus, Tali, Vega and two others which do not include Miranda. Having Miranda as the eightth after we meet her again would be very, very, VERY desirable. The chances don't look good, though.

#20439
flemm

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Ieldra2 wrote...

A missing endgame presence would be an epic disappointment, I agree. I can see a way how they could wriggle out of having to include one while still giving closure to that story arc. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.   


Well, I know what you are hoping will happen in the endgame. Part of what makes me doubt it's likely is that all the disposable ME2 characters are plugged into the same amount of content, approximately, and have approximately the same amount of impact.

So, Miranda having some type of huge impact at the end strikes me as really unlikely, with that in mind. For that to happen, the devs would have to handle her differently than the others, which they only seem to be interested in doing with Tali and Garrus.

Or they all end up having a huge impact (even more unlikely).

Ieldra2 wrote...

1. Miranda must confront her old boss, the Illusive Man. The encounter should shed light on her motivations for joining Cerberus and for leaving them again (if you kept the Collector base). Possibly there could be different Mirandas depending on Shepard's prompts or earlier decisions.
2. Miranda must confront the ghost of her father or the actual person. This should shed light on her views of her genetic enhancements. More possibilities of different Mirandas here.
3. In the romance, Shepard and Miranda must resolve what they are to each other and what they expect for their future together, if any. This should influence what will happen in the epilogue, if there is one. A romance scene is a must.
4. The question of Miranda's infertility should be resolved. An option for Miranda to find a way to reverse it is desirable.
5. Oriana's plotline must be resolved, possibly in combination with (2).


I'll add to this that Miranda's story arc has to have some type of meaningful conclusion where she is not just in limbo at the end of it (which I also mentioned in the spoiler group). There is a lot of stuff that would need to be in the game that is missing from those files.

This is regardless of screentime and squad presence, which appear to be minimal and non-existant respectively.

Modifié par flemm, 12 novembre 2011 - 01:18 .


#20440
Sleepy Buddha

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Hi guys. Haven't been here in a while. I'm guessing from your conversation that the news is not good.

I have to say I never got why the devs focused so much on Garrus and Tali. Never found either of them interesting.

#20441
alxboss78

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Ieldra2 wrote...
@alxboss78:
May I refer you to the Miranda in ME3 pre-release spoiler discussion group. The first post of the thread "The Verdict" summarizes what we know - in a very preliminary way - in a low-spoiler version.


I applied to join since i was not part of that group. But the post you mention is spoiler - free?

#20442
flemm

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alxboss78 wrote...

I applied to join since i was not part of that group. But the post you mention is spoiler - free?


Relatively low spoiler for that particular post, but it's not spoiler-free (just thought I'd answer this right away, in case you really, really don't want to be spoiled).

Modifié par flemm, 12 novembre 2011 - 01:27 .


#20443
alxboss78

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flemm wrote...

alxboss78 wrote...

I applied to join since i was not part of that group. But the post you mention is spoiler - free?


Relatively low spoiler, but it's not spoiler-free.


I guess that's good enough... When will i be able to access it?

#20444
flemm

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alxboss78 wrote...

I guess that's good enough... When will i be able to access it?


Well, Ieldra or jtav have to approve your request, I believe, which I'm sure will happen shortly.

#20445
Ieldra

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alxboss78 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
@alxboss78:
May I refer you to the Miranda in ME3 pre-release spoiler discussion group. The first post of the thread "The Verdict" summarizes what we know - in a very preliminary way - in a low-spoiler version.

I applied to join since i was not part of that group. But the post you mention is spoiler - free?

No story details, no mention of key encounters or the topic of any mission. No guarantee for answering posts, though. 

You should be able to access the group now.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 novembre 2011 - 01:29 .


#20446
wright1978

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Ieldra2 wrote...

However, I also want to say that I find it very appropriate for Miranda to be absent for extended periods of time. She is an indepedent agent with no faction loyalty anymore, and I think we all like her that way. It is something I can justify in my head even while disliking it from the player's viewpoint. And should she do something that influences the outcome of the war while she's absent - all on her own - well, I'd wear a smile as broad as Joker's when he finished the flight academy.  


Yeah i always assumed she'd be away for a portion of the game but that doesn't mean she couldn't have been recruitable for a significant portion of the game. Don't like the fact apparently we are able to roleplay as anti-alliance but don't appear ever to be able to have anyone on our squad of that mindset unlike in ME2 where there were numerous anti-cerberus squaddies.

#20447
flemm

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wright1978 wrote...

Yeah i always assumed she'd be away for a portion of the game but that doesn't mean she couldn't have been recruitable for a significant portion of the game. Don't like the fact apparently we are able to roleplay as anti-alliance but don't appear ever to be able to have anyone on our squad of that mindset unlike in ME2 where there were numerous anti-cerberus squaddies.


Agreed. It's fine if Miranda is off on her own for significant periods of time. It was always likely, and even desirable. But she also should be present for significant periods of time. I'm not seeing that at all.

We also need to find out more about where Miranda stands re: Cerberus, not just logistically, but what does she think about her past involvement? Does she regret it? Or aspects of it? If not, then why? This is really basic stuff.

#20448
wright1978

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flemm wrote...

Agreed. It's fine if Miranda is off on her own for significant periods of time. It was always likely, and even desirable. But she also should be present for significant periods of time. I'm not seeing that at all.

We also need to find out more about where Miranda stands re: Cerberus, not just logistically, but what does she think about her past involvement? Does she regret it? Or aspects of it? If not, then why? This is really basic stuff.


I personally don't see why she should regret it. She might very well regret being the unwitting pawn of the illusive man but not the overall stated goal of the organisation.

#20449
flemm

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wright1978 wrote...

I personally don't see why she should regret it. She might very well regret being the unwitting pawn of the illusive man but not the overall stated goal of the organisation.


I'm not saying she would necessarily, rather that we need to hear about it from her, especially given the way Cerberus is portrayed in this game.

#20450
wright1978

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flemm wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

I personally don't see why she should regret it. She might very well regret being the unwitting pawn of the illusive man but not the overall stated goal of the organisation.


I'm not saying she would necessarily, rather that we need to hear about it from her, especially given the way Cerberus is portrayed in this game.


I'm hoping this will tie into the epilogues. If you reassure her of her previous outlook we get more of a TIW epilogue ending whereas paragons can convince her the other way. I'm worried there's going to be one happy ending for her with no player input.

Modifié par wright1978, 12 novembre 2011 - 02:42 .