82210 réponses à ce sujet

[alperez]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Should Miranda's impact on the main plot turn out to be inconsequential, or should she be turned into a Paragon, *then* I'll be up in arms. 

Sorry to snip part of your reply (i think i explained my position better in the pm) but it was this part i wanted to comment on.

If that turns out to be the case then i have a feeling you may have a hell of a lot of company, esp. looking at the reactions of certain other characters fans, we may find a lot of unlikely bedfellows come me3's release, the VS and Miranda fans both fighting on the same side is not a scenario a lot of people would have envisioned just a short time ago.

So again if they go this route, you bring the pitchforks and come early because i suspect there may be a lot of various different characters fans waiting to rise up against bioware.

[alperez]

alxboss78

At this stage i'm not sure any characters fanbase will force Bioware to change how they will treat any character in me3, complaining about how we perceive a characters been treated or will be handled using the info that's been leaked will no doubt lead to the same responses from Bioware in relation to that info itself.

Its old, out of date, it doesn't reflect the complete story etc.

I think the 2 best chances in terms of characters roles being majorly different are if the script really is that old and really is missing a lot of info (how likely that is depends on your own opinion.

Or if the leak itself has forced them to change certain things just to prove how old and inaccurate it really is, looking through the character fan threads and seeing how people react imo won't have any bearing on what bioware will do nor will writing to them or complaining regarding a perception of how characters are treated.

What will be interesting to see though is once the game is out, how much accuracy there is in these leaks and how we'll respond if the worst fears are proved to be true.

I can see some people losing all trust and faith in bioware because of how certain characters may be handled or how choices may be incorporated while others will be overjoyed, how many people will actually decide not to buy into Bioware's products afterward and whether or not this is completely offset by the new people who do would be an interesting comparison.

[Boilrig]

A game can only be so big, so it was always known some characters were going to fade into the background. The last thing Bioware needs is to create conflict and rifts in the community over characters within ME3, Miranda is a newer character, and could possibly have a strong backing due to the amount of people who chose to romance her in ME2. I also agree with alperez, any uprising in the community against characters in ME3, you have to be in quick with the toughest argument.

I can see some people losing all trust and faith in bioware because of how certain characters may be handled or how choices may be incorporated while others will be overjoyed, how many people will actually decide not to buy into Bioware's products afterward and whether or not this is completely offset by the new people who do would be an interesting comparison.

I agree, while this game is most certainly going to sell, and most people on these forums will purchase it. The future of the Mass Effect series, after the Shepard Story Arc, and any game from Bioware will be a risk, because of how characters have been handled. But as I said before, a game can only be so big, so its a choice of what to put in and what to keep out.

Modifié par Boilrig, 13 novembre 2011 - 11:30 .

[Ieldra]

I'll join the horde with the pitchforks as soon as I find sufficient reason to, alperez. People are too hair-triggered about details and too fast in jumping to conclusions. Yes, that does include me of a week ago.

Re:VS, I'm one of those who likes Kaidan and Ashley quite a bit, and I haven't seen anything to get up in arms about. And why the hell does nobody see the utter irony of the situation they complain about? I'll say that the handling of the situation is tricky, and requires really good writing and scene design to avoid ruining it, but really, to include it in the first place is a masterstroke, and a daring one at that. Won't say more in a public place.  

[Boilrig]

I'm concerned by the time a sufficient reason has come around it would be to late, aka, game release. We will just have to wait and see.

Modifié par Boilrig, 13 novembre 2011 - 11:40 .

[Skullheart]

We can always burn BW offices if they ruined the game... Just kidding.

[alperez]

Ieldra

I agree completely we can be hair triggered at times, me especially, like you say this week is better than last so who knows what next week or the week after may bring (still have spare pitchforks though just in case), but you intrigue me with your reference so feel free to pm when you get the chance.

In terms of the VS i actually consider myself a VS fan as much as i do a Miranda one, different Shepards for different playthroughs allow that imo.

[alperez]

Skullheart wrote...

We can always burn BW offices if they ruined the game... Just kidding.

Kid not, if they have i'll be in full Beavis mode "FIRE, FIRE" lol.

[t3HPrO]

Bah. I'll just call in Tavish DeGroot to blow up all of Bioware's offices for a nickel to defend my Miwi.

And time for a Miwi pic:

[alperez]

Boilrig

I think there's more at stake than just the future of the mass effect universe, Bioware aren't coming from the same hallowed ground they once did in the eyes of a lot of people. Be it people who complain about the perception that the rpg genre itself is somehow abandoned or people who were so dissappointed by DA2 that they're almost in a last chance saloon situation with Bioware in terms of me3.

Honestly for some people me3 really is that important, if certain things are not to their liking i can see some people deciding Bioware is no longer the company they should support, whether this attitude is right for you or i is irrelevant but its there for some people to be sure.

In terms of the game can only be so big, we partly use that to excuse certain things in me2, its the second game, choice can't really be reflected etc. To me that excuse doesn't actually work as well in the last act of the trilogy, simply because if anything it should imo be even bigger than the last 2 games were, not just in scope but in characterisation and choice consequence etc.

But again i'll go back to my original point, it doesn't imo need every single character from me2 to be fully integrated squadwise or storyline wise in order to achieve this, but it does need some and one in particular, Miranda.

Simply because of the level of importance that Cerberus play in me3 imo this should apply directly to her character also, when you see that TALI and Garrus seemingly can be incorporated then surely the game being too big isn't an issue with those characters, so why should it be with one more.

As for it being too late once the game is released, unfortunately that's true, but people have discussed, argued and put across their opinions regarding characters since me2 was finished, if it hasn't been taken in by Bioware up to this point, its unlikely that anything we say or do will make a difference up to the game being released.

Which brings me back to people giving a final shot to Bioware, for some this is essentially why that is the case, if they heard our concerns which its impossible they did not and didn't address them in the past 2 years, then should we really continue to support them post me3?

To find out the answer to that though we must first see just exactly how they have handled those concerns and to do that we have really no choice other than to wait until me3 is released and then afterwards decide for ourselves just how important we are to Bioware or they are to us.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Holy sh*t guys, I think I just found Miri's rape face.

[flemm]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Screen presence is as important as her characterisation. Thus, Bioware have already failed.

That would certainly appear to be the case. Squad presence is desirable, but not mandatory. However, there are plenty of ways to give Miranda adequate screentime without her being on the squad.

The most important mission for her story arc is apparently the mission immediately following her mission.

There's no game development reason that could adequately explain her not being there for that.

alxboss78 wrote...

Excuse me guys, but if we have already accepted that the more likely scenario involves Miri having limited screentime and no recruitability, have we tried giving grief to the guys from Bioware?Just my 2 cents

Well, as Ieldra states, I doubt they'll respond. Obviously, it will come as no surprise to them that people are unhappy with this. Doesn't mean that contacting them is necessarily a bad idea. But, concretely, it likely is what it is at this point.

Modifié par flemm, 13 novembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[alperez]

flemm wrote...

That would certainly appear to be the case. Squad presence is desirable, but not mandatory. However, there are plenty of ways to give Miranda adequate screentime without her being on the squad.

The most important mission for her story arc is apparently the mission immediately following her mission.

There's no game development reason that could adequately explain her not being there for that.

Which is pretty much why i feel if an me2 specific character deserves having the boat pushed out for them it really is Miranda.

They could and should imo go a completely different route with her presence in me3 than almost any of the other characters and certainly the me2 specific ones.

Have her play a large role outside of squad status by all means, but also a larger role in squad status from a certain point in the game as well, hell even giving her 2 missions would somehow reflect this especially the 2 you mention above.

[flemm]

alperez wrote...

Have her play a large role outside of squad status by all means, but also a larger role in squad status from a certain point in the game as well, hell even giving her 2 missions would somehow reflect this especially the 2 you mention above.

Well, yeah, not having the second mission in there will be inexcusable imo. Because there's clearly no good reason for it.

[Boilrig]

Alperez
I agree, Bioware has changed over time, and yes there is more at stake in the future, with its popularity it has also gained a deadline, a deadline which is pushed by EA, and even more by the community, because of this the game is limited, and features/characters/development will be left behind, this may be the last arc in the trilogy, but it is still bound by time, which determines its size, also quality for that matter.

I totally understand why Miranda needs to be in ME3 and not just fade into the background, she played a crucial part of ME2 and as you said, with Cerberus stepping up in ME3, her character involvement should be heavy in some areas. Tali and Garrus are major characters back from ME1, since that time have formed a large backing in the community due to being in both games and their likability. 

I would find it unwise as a company to not take note of the communities feelings towards characters within the 'Mass Effect 3 Character and Romance Discussion', if Miranda is pulled back, all I could suggest is a DLC, using the same base from LOTSB to allow the community to have their time with Miranda as a squad member. If Bioware doesn't take on the communities ideas, it will be shown, and it will be noted.

I too have noticed the lack of jumping to ideas of what would be beyond ME3, as most people actually think even before the game has been released, I wonder what the sequel of what game would be... It is unlikely we will learn more on the areas we want to, unless its specifically aimed at calming the community down with information they require. Looks like we are going to be waiting for a while.

Modifié par Boilrig, 13 novembre 2011 - 12:49 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
The most important mission for her story arc is apparently the mission immediately following her mission.

There's no game development reason that could adequately explain her not being there for that.

Absolutely. Which is why I still have hope she will be there. Anything else would make no sense. This part of her story arc needs closure, and two or three lines in a vidcomm conversation, which would be the easy way out, won't cut it. 

[Boilrig]

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...
The most important mission for her story arc is apparently the mission immediately following her mission.

There's no game development reason that could adequately explain her not being there for that.

Absolutely. Which is why I still have hope she will be there. Anything else would make no sense. This part of her story arc needs closure, and two or three lines in a vidcomm conversation, which would be the easy way out, won't cut it. 

More like an email at your terminal.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Absolutely. Which is why I still have hope she will be there. Anything else would make no sense. This part of her story arc needs closure, and two or three lines in a vidcomm conversation, which would be the easy way out, won't cut it. 

Indeed it would not. But it would mean that they would have to devote a little extra development time and resources to Miranda, which it seems quite clear they have no interest in doing.

We're talking about this having maybe changed. If it has changed, it will likely be because of the support we've shown here. But that it was ever the plan for Miranda not to be there for that second mission tells me all I need to know.

Modifié par flemm, 13 novembre 2011 - 12:58 .

[Ieldra]

To avoid being too spoilerish: think about what else is not present in that mission. I say there's definitely a lot of stuff missing there.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 novembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[Skullheart]

Our support means nothing. Maybe this thread is the more active in this forum, but it doesn't means that the devs really care.

Finished another playthrough. Tali died as a tach expert because Garrus was leading the second team and he wasn't loyal. I hope that there's flags like "second team leader" "tech specialist", etc.

[alperez]

Boilrig

Considering they already pushed back the relase to suit whatever purpose to me the time and pressure defence doesn't work that well.

As for popularity or fan support playing a role in choosing who to bring back and who not while this is true to an extent, miranda was probably the most popular of the me2 crew anyway, but even so it didn't actually make a difference when they went from me1 to me2 considering Wrex was probably head and shoulders above Garrus and Tali at that stage yet he wasn't brought back fully.

To me storyline trumps popularity anyway, given that they will no doubt have characters filling whatever role they desire in order to suit the story they will push forward, it should have been even more of a reason to bring Miranda back in a larger role than say for example Garrus.

I don't think the Dlc idea for squadmates can actually work this time, simply because the issues squadmates have will all be resolved in game so you'd just be creating extra missions for the sake of them.

I mean why bring Miranda back in a dlc if you've already done the major issues concerning her character arc in game with or without her?

It is unwise not to take account of the issues people have regarding the implementation of squadmates, but its also a calculated choice to do so as well, your not just calculating that x amount of people actually don't really care, your calculating that the ones that do will not just leave if you do as you wish and even if they do the new ones you bring forward will more than cover it.

Whether this is somethng that works, well other companies have found to their cost what happens when fans become disenchanted, often at great cost.

As for what's beyond me3, there are a lot of factors that can decide that not directly related to me3 itself and some which are.

For example worse case scenario Massive fan dissappointment with me3 may force a radical change in direction regarding the next game.

But probaby the most important aspect regarding the next game from Bioware is in fact the next game from Bioware, TOR could define Bioware's direction completely, if anything its more important than Me3 in deciding the future direction or if there will even be one.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

To avoid being too spoilerish: think about what else is not present in that mission. I say there's definitely a lot of stuff missing there.

Yes, but the reason concocted to prevent Miranda from being there is in the files. I'm not saying it's impossible that this particular detail has changed. If anything, the reason I think it's worth showing support here and continuing to do so is because, hey, you never know.

But I'm also not big on deluding myself: it seems quite clear from the files that Miranda's involvement has been designed to be restricted to one mission from the beginning.

Skullheart wrote...

Our support means nothing. Maybe this thread is the more active in this forum, but it doesn't means that the devs really care.

Admittedly, that is quite possibly true. And from the state of Miranda's involvement in the game, it seems in fact extremely likely. Whatever, I'm not going to get all despondent. But I am going to call a spade a spade.

It's basically a glorified cameo that marginalizes Miranda in a game where, plausibly speaking, she should be heavily involved.

Modifié par flemm, 13 novembre 2011 - 01:16 .

[alperez]

flemm wrote...

But I'm also not big on deluding myself: it seems quite clear from the files that Miranda's involvement has been designed to be restricted to one mission from the beginning.

I wonder about this big time, since it seems to be the case almost with the entire me2 specific cast also.

[flemm]

alperez wrote...

I wonder about this big time, since it seems to be the case almost with the entire me2 specific cast also.

Yep. There is a pattern there and, while agree with you that it makes no sense at all for Miranda's appearance to be governed by that pattern, it would appear to be.

[Boilrig]

Aplerez

True, the defence doesn't work that well, but time is still a major factor across most games these days, aswell as community demands and expectations. I agree, with Miranda being the most popular it gives bearly any reason to actually limit her screen time, Miranda has the support due to probably one of the highest amounts as an LI within ME2. Yes, some characters still weren't fully brought back in ME2 from ME1, but some beleived that they had enough screentime, now its concerning if she gets less than that.

Yes, it does come back to the storyline, further yet the writers, I agree that there is more of a reason to bring back Miranda than Garrus, but it all depends on the writers, I'm concerned that they have not fully ultlized the character of Miranda within the storyline, which is concerning to what we can now expect from other chracters.

I totally agree with your view on the DLC idea, it was more of a broad idea if players are unhappy with her screentime. Mass Effect 3 is to important to not take into considerations of the community and their interests, as I said, it will be noted if they had actually listened to the community, if not, I would see a negative reaction in their future games and an huge decrease in posting on these forums other than ingame bugs and errors.