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[Beard_of_Bees]

flemm wrote...

For example, the romance "arcs" for the ME2 characters are there, though that is perhaps not always an appropriate term. Basically, you can see how they end and it doesn't involve a romance scene in the case of any of the ME2-specific characters.

One thing that was giving me hope was the "love triangle". I romanced Ashley, then Miranda. Now for me Miranda is the clear winner there, but they do say that the LIs will vying for Shepards attention...surely a reasonable amount of screen presence is needed?

Admittedly I have avoided all spoilers, so most of you folks have info I don't.

[ScrapperSteph]

Hello all,

flemm wrote...

Her knowledge of Cerberus is not really exploited, except perhaps to a small extent in her mission.

I tried to find a feasible scenario for Miranda in ME3, but in addition of her possible death in ME2, I find other problematic issues.

Given the fact that she resign from Cerberus at the end of the ME2, and that we know that some time has passed between ME2 and ME3 ( The huge evolution of Ash/Kaidan in just a few days couldn't be credible  ... ), her knowledge of Cerberus will be a little bit outdated by the time of ME3. 
We can assume that The Illusive Man has probably cutted off all her acces to Cerberus Databases, defined new protocols, new plans - so Miranda could not know them - and maybe even disposed of all people in Cerberus who could have give her some informations. ( It is easy for TIM to identify all people in his organization who have worked with Miranda at a given time )
And EDI finaly seems to know more on Cerberus than Miranda as soon as we give it full control at the end of ME2.

So except with the Oriana-Miranda's Father issue ( Once again ... ), I cannot find a solution to include her in a major plot of the game.


PS : I'm not a Mirihater. In fact, I'm a no-one hater, who tried to find the answers WITHOUT reading the leaks
( However I get spoiled several times by just reading some threads here ... )

[Beard_of_Bees]

But Garrus and Tali can be killed. And one of Ashley/Kaidan is killed...

[ScrapperSteph]

When I say Ash/Kaidan, it's one or the other, we know that one of the two is KIA on Virmire.

And Garrus and Tali are not the focus of my post. They have been chosen by Bioware to be main characters, so no one could go against that.

[jtav]

Actually, we can. Loudly.

[ScrapperSteph]

No, because it's the writers who build the game, not the fans.
If the fans have done ME2, Miranda could simply have never existed ...

[jtav]

Yes, I'm glad they created her. But I'm under no obligation to continue to be grateful. The way thins are going now, I'm saying I can do a better job with Miranda in ME3 than her actual writers. And what's to stop me? It's not as if there's some truth to contradict. Once a creative work is finished, it ceases to belong entirely to its writers.

[The Everchosen of Chaos]

This is true. Ultimately, we have no real power over what happens in the game, it is up to the writers to decide what happens to x and y. fans can influence things such as gameplay but rarely if ever, does developer write the story according the fans expectations.

We'll just have to go with what we've got come March, whining about it isn't going to change anything. Besides we have no idea what the developers are going to come up with, they may surprise us. In a good way of course. Lets hope there aren't anymore leaks.

[ScrapperSteph]

Keep the faith, jtav !

I doubt that the writers will really "scrap" Miranda, due to her status in the fans hearts. 
Maybe the fact that they keep her for the end is a proof that she has not be forgotten, after all, the end of Mass Effect will be great, so it's better to be here for the final than just for the begining.:happy:

As a fan of Kasumi, I knew since the end of ME2 that chance to see her again in ME3 were small ... but I keep the faith, and finally, I know that she will be there in ME3. ( In a small role and for a limited screen time, but don't know exactly as I don't read the leak, just have read the thread on this forum ), she will be there, and that's good.

[CrutchCricket]

Props to you ScrapperSteph! It was actually Kasumi that played a large part in getting me to feel good about ME3 again. There's so little interaction with her but an imaginative mind can make so much more (though being on the Normandy certainly helped). I've accepted the fact that I may see very little of her. Perhaps I should do so for Miranda as well. My only hope for both of them now is that ME3 doesn't interfere with their fundamental characters or the post-ending plans I have for them (I feel like I should be wringing my fingers and cackling lol)

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 14 novembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[flemm]

Beard_of_Bees wrote...

One thing that was giving me hope was the "love triangle". I romanced Ashley, then Miranda. Now for me Miranda is the clear winner there, but they do say that the LIs will vying for Shepards attention...surely a reasonable amount of screen presence is needed?

Admittedly I have avoided all spoilers, so most of you folks have info I don't.

There's not much in the files that would indicate this is a bigger deal than in previous games, really. But it's very one-sided, by which I mean there are files with Ashley, for example, making some catty comments about Miranda and Jack, but not the reverse.

That's generally true of the way the files work: lots of dialog and material for the recruitable characters, not much at all for the others, which is part of what contributes to the general impression that certain characters are side-lined.

Keep in mind that Miranda appears very late in the game and never boards the Normandy.

ScrapperSteph wrote...
I tried to find a feasible scenario for Miranda in ME3, but in addition of her possible death in ME2, I find other problematic issues.

If writers want to give a character an important role in the story, they can easily do so. Writing a character out of the story is also easy to do. This is regardless of where the characters start off, or how many plot hooks they have.

Witness Liara becoming the SB, completely out of nowhere. With Miranda, the plot hooks are there and could have been exploited with the greatest of ease. (They are even exploited in the leaks, just in a very limited way.)

It's a choice, one that could easily have been handled differently.

Modifié par flemm, 14 novembre 2011 - 09:03 .

[Skullheart]

Ludicrous idea: The alliance hires her as (captain, XO, civilian contractor) in the SSV Ain Jalut, due her experience as XO in the SR-2.

I can only dream...

[flemm]

Somewhat lost in the shuffle of the recent leaks is the increasingly noteworthy detail that we still haven't had any confirmation of Yvonne Strahovski returning to voice the role. I would actually have expected them to make a bigger deal of that with Miranda returning in a small role than otherwise. Possibly at some point along the way, I suppose.

Modifié par flemm, 14 novembre 2011 - 09:39 .

[jtav]

I take it for granted that she will be.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I take it for granted that she will be.

I tend to think so, it's just odd that they haven't announced it. It's an easy non-spoilery thing to use as a little news item somewhere and doesn't depend on the scale of her involvement at all.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Yeah, there's something we figured as far back as May we must get for Miranda and it's absent, with actual evidence that we won't be getting it.

May? It was clear from the release of ME2 that any resolution of Miranda's story arc would have to deal with that. Which makes me doubt there won't be anything added to it before release. It will probably be indirect, but that would still be better than nothing. 

I also have a really hard time believing there won't be a romance scene with Miranda somewhere in the game. We can take what's there and say if it's good or bad, but we have very limited ways to tell what will not be there. I can't say I'm optimistic in that regard, but it would be a very unexpected "What the hell, Bioware" moment.

For what it's worth, Miranda's story arc should contain, among other things:
(1) Confronting TIM
(2) A romance scene
(3) It she's in trouble, she should make a very good showing of herself and  not be reduced to a victim.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 novembre 2011 - 11:14 .

[wright1978]

The very least i expected was good romance arc. I'm now extremely worried especially after mac Walters tweet about how amazing the key relationships were in the game as if any relationship isn't key.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...

The very least i expected was good romance arc. I'm now extremely worried especially after mac Walters tweet about how amazing the key relationships were in the game as if any relationship isn't key.

Well, if we go back to Casey Hudson's original comments about the game, he mentioned that there would be a key set of characters around whom the story revolved, some characters who would be recruitable like normal, some temp companions, and then cameos.

It's now pretty easy to see how that breaks down:

1) Liara, Vega, VS + other new squad members
2) Garrus, Tali
3) ME2-specific squad members
4) DLC

It's not a pretty picture.

Modifié par flemm, 14 novembre 2011 - 11:39 .

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

The very least i expected was good romance arc. I'm now extremely worried especially after mac Walters tweet about how amazing the key relationships were in the game as if any relationship isn't key.

Well, if we go back to Casey Hudson's original comments about the game, he mentioned that there would be a key set of characters around whom the story revolved, some characters who would be recruitable like normal, some temp companions, and then cameos.

It's now pretty easy to see how that breaks down:

1) Liara, Vega, VS + other new squad members
2) Garrus, Tali
3) ME2-specific squad members
4) DLC

It's not a pretty picture.

Yeah it doesn't look good. Given romance stuff is always labelled as optional anyway though i really don't see why they can't be treated with a degree of more equality. Yeah squaddies will have more dialogues but this could be counterbalanced by the temps having much longer main dialogue. Then everyone gets a final scene. The way it currently seems to stand i'm half expecting a big message to pop up saying 'wrong choice' when i try to continue the romance i like.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...
Yeah squaddies will have more dialogues but this could be counterbalanced by the temps having much longer main dialogue. Then everyone gets a final scene. The way it currently seems to stand i'm half expecting a big message to pop up saying 'wrong choice' when i try to continue the romance i like.

Well, not saying it's an excuse at all, but the temp romance characters are the ones that won't be available to new players. So, that material is specifically being designed for imported games. Here again, it's a question of willingness to make the effort, mostly, I think. Since I doubt the cost of including a romance scene for a character like Miranda would be prohibitive. It might not be negligible, but with what's already there, it should definitely be feasible.

Really, I'm at a loss as to why this was ever not part of the plan in the first place. But when I recall to mind comments about the romances all being resolved "in some fashion," etc., combined with the leak, I think it's pretty clear it wasn't the plan (and still may very well not be).

Modifié par flemm, 14 novembre 2011 - 11:57 .

[wright1978]

flemm wrote...

Well, not saying it's an excuse at all, but the temp romance characters are the ones that won't be available to new players. So, that material is specifically being designed for imported games. Here again, it's a question of willingness to make the effort, mostly, I think. Since I doubt the cost of including a romance scene for a character like Miranda would be prohibitive. It might not be negligible, but with what's already there, it should definitely be feasible.

Really, I'm at a loss as to why this was ever not part of the plan in the first place. But when I recall to mind comments about the romances all being resolved "in some fashion," etc., combined with the leak, I think it's pretty clear it wasn't the plan (and still may very well not be).

Yeah if it turns out ME2 romances were just there to act as a test of fidelty for those who'd had a romance in ME1 that would beseverely uncool.

[Dr. Doctor]

There's going to be something for the ME2 romances I can't see the reason why there wouldn't be, why would they go through all of that work if they just wanted to create a fidelity test?  I have Shepards who romanced Ash and Liara and stayed "loyal" that's fine, but I also have Shepards who only have ME2 LI's I have a hard time believing that Bioware will simply tell me "You chose poorly". 

[flemm]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
There's going to be something for the ME2 romances I can't see the reason why there wouldn't be, why would they go through all of that work if they just wanted to create a fidelity test?  I have Shepards who romanced Ash and Liara and stayed "loyal" that's fine, but I also have Shepards who only have ME2 LI's I have a hard time believing that Bioware will simply tell me "You chose poorly". 

Well, common sense is certainly in your corner

[jtav]

Little bit of fanfic to take our minds off things. Warning: angst, perhaps too much so. But I had to resort to drastic measures to alter the time line.

The intercom buzzed to sudden life. Liara. “Shepard? Can I see you for a moment?”

Matt finished adjusting the sight on his pistol. “Be right there.” He didn’t really want to deal with people right now. They’d saved the krogan—well, technically Mordin had saved them while Shepard shot the things trying to stop him—and there was much backslapping and rejoicing all round. Except by him. Everyone thought he’d done it to save the species, but the truth was that he thought the krogan army would be a bit more useful. Buy the scientists the time they needed to construct the Catalyst. He only hoped it was the right call and they wouldn’t be dealing with another Krogan Rebellion in a few generations.

Miranda rubbed off on me. Matt winced. Thinking of Miranda was still a bit like being knifed. He exited the armory. The retrofitted SR-2 was still a strange and unfamiliar place and he still blinked to find himself on the crew deck instead of the CIC. The observation decks were gone, replaced by gun batteries. Crew quarters had been expanded. It was quieter. Whatever their faults, the Cerberus crew had always been talking and laughing about one thing or the other. Had Alliance crewmen always talked in such low, grim tones and he had simply forgotten? Or was it the war?

Liara’s office was almost a straight shot from the armory. Technically, it probably should haven his quarters since Kaidan was ranking officer, but Liara needed the space more than he did. Every square centimeter of the place was covered with computers that beeped and chimed at irregular intervals. The soft bed had become a hard cot, and the couches were long gone. Not even a whiff of the distinctive jasmine scent that had once filled these quarters.

Liara looked up from one of those monitors. “I’ve been thinking about Cerberus,” she said without preamble. “Why they attacked us on Sur’Kesh. It makes no sense. You gave them the base. They should still want the same things you do. Unless they’re indoctrinated. And that wouldn’t explain the increase in manpower and equipment.”

Matt forced himself to smile. “What? The Shadow Broker doesn’t have all the answers?”

She glared at him. “I’m doing the best I can with what I have. You try running an information network from here.” She took a deep breath and her expression was suddenly unreadable. “We need Miranda. She’s still Cerberus, technically. Maybe she can help us figure it out.”

Matt grunted. Miranda had vanished after he’d turned himself in. He’d half-hoped for some message while he was locked up or at least once he’d gone back to the Normandy. But there’d been nothing. Pf course, it could have been because the Reapers had gutted galaxy-wide communication instead of her hating him. Matt was always one to look on the bright side. “You think she’s alive?”

“I know it. She’s on the Citadel and she goes by the name Katriana Solheim now.”

Before Matt quite realized what he was doing, he’d taken two steps forward. “You knew she was alive, and you never told me?” Alive. Miranda was alive. Not blown to bits or turned into a husk. The idea seemed incredible. He’d lost his family to Mindoir and his unit to Akuze. Losing people was what he did, just as much as saving the day. But not this time.

“Calm down, Shepard. I only confirmed it this morning. She’s a slippery one. I can see why you like her.” Her voice was wistful, and Matt could suddenly see a piece of N7 armor in a glass case as clearly as if it had been standing there. He wasn’t the only one here with a broken heart. “And we need her.”

“Why are you asking me, then. Kaidan’s ranking officer?” So much easier if the decision was out of his hands.

“And the crew listens to you. Now that the Reapers are here, you’re a hero. They’ll go where you want. And you know Miranda better than anyone. Tell you that you need her help, and she’ll listen. Duty has always been first for her. She worked with Jacob for years after they broke up. She’ll work with you.”

Grief and rage coiled within him. His voice was low and dangerous. “I shot her sister. That’s a little worse than a breakup. She’ll probably hand me over to the Illusive Man herself.” And maybe he’d deserve it. He’d always been so careful about not hurting civilians. And the one time he’d screwed up…well, the only person he wanted to suffer more was Oriana and Miranda’s father for sending the mercs in the first place.

[AstronautN7]

flemm wrote...

Somewhat lost in the shuffle of the recent leaks is the increasingly noteworthy detail that we still haven't had any confirmation of Yvonne Strahovski returning to voice the role. I would actually have expected them to make a bigger deal of that with Miranda returning in a small role than otherwise. Possibly at some point along the way, I suppose.

@ San Diego Comic Con I asked Casey Hudson personally, while waiting to play the ME3 demo, if Yvonne Strahovski would be facing/voicing Miranda Lawson again in ME3, to which he replied  "Yes, she'll be back".

Also, in the (more detailed or 2nd) leak there is somekind of a credits/thanks list , usually the one appearing at the end of the game or if selected, and her name is on it too, among many (all?) then known VAs.

Just last week I believe the ME team recoreded TIM (Martin Sheen) in LA, so VA work is clearly still ongoing.
Also, CHUCK is in it's last weeks, with only 2 more episodes of filming too, which usually lasts around 8 to 10 days per episode I think.

Her busy TV/movie career and schedule might have reduced her availability for ME and thus her role in the ME3 game, but that's just speculation on my part.

So all in all, there's a lot of reason for optimism. I certainly have confidence on my part that she'll be back.

Modifié par AstronautN7, 15 novembre 2011 - 02:31 .