82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...
So, no one have said anything about Shepard and Miranda talking about her infertility (if she is romanced). Bioware bringed it in LotSB, they should put a clousure to that too.

Nothinig about that in the leak, but here's what I've envisioned: when Miranda and Shepard talk about the future, there should be options Shepard can take that hint at future possibilties:

Option 1: Acceptance of the condition, implying that it could've been cured if not for the pressures of the Reaper conflict, "We'll have to live with it - but humanity owes you for that sacrifice, and I won't let them forget it."
Option 2: Not accepting it, implying that Miranda knows enough about the human body after Lazarus to cure the condition or find a way around it. "You brought me back from the dead. Curing you shouldn't be a big problem now that we've got the time."

There was an option 3 implying that they don't want children, but apparently that has been canonically disproven for Miranda.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I think they were going for comedy for most of it and sympathy with infertility. Only, it backfired. People seemed more turned off than before.

Well, Bioware's writers aren't usually that inept. So, I don't really find that reading especially convincing. Feels to me more like it was written to emphasize the "unnaturalness" of Miranda's origins. Not sure who wrote it, but it's always felt like it wasn't one of Miranda's writers.

Modifié par flemm, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:19 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Insinuate that genetic tailoring leads to evolutionary dead ends?

That would make me disown Miranda and rail at the writers for a year.  It's one of my greatest fears.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[jtav]

Not me, but that's our persistent disagreement. I want that tech to fail and hard.

At least she's not a sociopathic clothes horse.

[goofyomnivore]

I think Mr. Lawson made her infertile or knew of the likelihood of it, and I think there will be a slight revisit of the infertility bit in Mass Effect 3. I hope it doesn't evolve into a central issue, but I think it warrants a few dialogue lines.

However I really really hate the infertility "flaw".

[Ieldra]

They could just leave it open for us to interpret. That would be an acceptable minimum solution - as long as Miranda embraces her enhancements.

However, I still hate her infertility with a passion. I want it gone, even there's only a subtle hint towards that end somewhere.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:26 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Not me, but that's our persistent disagreement. I want that tech to fail and hard.

Genuinely suprised at this. I was under the impression this was agreed upon by just about everybody. You never mentioned this (at least not since I've been here). Care to elaborate?

Do I need to add the same cautionary note, namely that I'm not trying to reinstigate old fights, I'm just curious?

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:28 .

[goofyomnivore]

I wish they would of left the dossier ambiguous. Maybe the dossier could of been her sending an email to set up a fertility test, or she was seeking a second opinion on her fertility. You would of got something like Anora where the game implies she is infertile, however it isn't concrete, and the players can assume what they want in the epilogue.

Modifié par strive, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:33 .

[CrutchCricket]

I think given the technology we see in the game it's fairly easy to handwave even without additional ambiguity. It's easy to the point that "miracle fertility" is actually a genuine concern.

[jtav]

I'm lapsed Roman Catholic and I have serious issues with Miranda's creation. It's not her fault, so I don't like to bring it up much. Besides, I don't want kids for my Sheps.

[goofyomnivore]

I don't think curing it is the issue people have. It is why does it need to be there. At least that is my problem with it. There has to be a cure for it in 2183. IIRC isn't the issue Miranda suffers from nearly cured today in 2011? Even then you got things like genophage, lazarus project, etc. So I find a cure being out of reach implausible.

It just feels like they wanted to add a polarizing issue for the sake of adding it.

Modifié par strive, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[flemm]

Well, it could be some sort of control mechanism instituted by her father. Don't know how that would work, really, but with pop sci-fi pseudo-science, anything is possible.

If so, then the reason for it being there is actually very specific and would definitely be addressed.

Modifié par flemm, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:40 .

[jtav]

Oh, I don't mind a cure. I just don't mind her being infertile and want the tech to be nonviable on a large scale. As long as I'm not stuck with kids, I don't care what happens in other games.

Modifié par jtav, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:41 .

[goofyomnivore]

flemm wrote...

Well, it could be some sort of control mechanism instituted by her father (don't know how that would work, really, but with pop sci-fi pseudo-science, anything is possible). If so, then the reason for it being there is actually very specific and would definitely be addressed.

Yeah that is what I have believed the reasoning behind the infertility to be.

Modifié par strive, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:43 .

[CrutchCricket]

What does having kids have to do with it? I get the faith thing, you don't agree with the tech. But kids are almost a separate issue given the number of options available not just to Miranda but to any potential "artificially spawned" human. Besides it's YOU and your Shepards that don't want kids. Miranda does. I don't think wanting kids or not should have anything to do with the genetic engineering technologies that created Miranda.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:45 .

[CrutchCricket]

strive wrote...

flemm wrote...

Well, it could be some sort of control mechanism instituted by her father (don't know how that would work, really, but with pop sci-fi pseudo-science, anything is possible). If so, then the reason for it being there is actually very specific and would definitely be addressed.

Yeah that is what I have believed the reasoning behind the infertility to be.

I would hope not because this opens the nasty possibility of "...and only I can cure you". Much rage would ensue if this were the case.

[jtav]

And I'm her boyfriend (feels weird to say that). If unromanced Miranda has kids, that's none of my business. I'll be the most supportive friend ever. But I think I should get a say if I'm in a relationship, rather than BW automatically giving them to us. And BW has done exactly that in epilogues before.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I would hope not because this opens the nasty possibility of "...and only I can cure you". Much rage would ensue if this were the case.

Well, it also eliminates a lot of irritating possibilities, and actually makes the whole thing a meaningful part of Miranda's story, so I doubt it would be all bad.

[Ieldra]

Well, all I care about in this issue is that the game doesn't try to make a point of the supposed evils of genetic enhancements. As long as they avoid that, I'm fine.

@CrutchCricket:
jtav and I agree on many things about Miranda, but we're at opposing ends regarding bioethics. I want exactly what she doesn't want - that this becomes available on a large scale - though I'd be content with the game not canonically refuting it. Then it can happen in my imagination.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:55 .

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

And I'm her boyfriend (feels weird to say that). If unromanced Miranda has kids, that's none of my business. I'll be the most supportive friend ever. But I think I should get a say if I'm in a relationship, rather than BW automatically giving them to us. And BW has done exactly that in epilogues before.

On this issue I'm singing from the same hymn sheet as Jtav.

Modifié par wright1978, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:57 .

[CrutchCricket]

jtav: That's fine, we were talking about choice before and more choice was good. However wanting kids or not has no bearing on genetic engineering/enhancements. That you disagree with it on other grounds is no concern of mine as I don't feel like getting into that talk at this point.

flemm: The "control" option by itself wouldn't be all bad. But "only I can cure you" is absolutely terrible with no redeeming features. I'm worried that allowing for the first option opens up the second and it's too easy to go there once the way is clear.

[jtav]

Crutch: I don't want kids and I don't want the tech viable. Two motives for the same end: namely I don't want kids in my romance with her. Other people can do what they like as long as I don't have to see it. It's on;y that BW has done "one size fits all" epilogues and had the hero settle down regardless. Not me.

[Abraham_uk]

Some armour in battle would be nice.

[jtav]

I don't think that's going to be an issue this time.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Crutch: I don't want kids and I don't want the tech viable. Two motives for the same end: namely I don't want kids in my romance with her. Other people can do what they like as long as I don't have to see it. It's on;y that BW has done "one size fits all" epilogues and had the hero settle down regardless. Not me.

Well then, the question becomes "is the tech not being universally viable going to stop them from having kids?" and the predominant answer would probably be "no." I'm fine with you endorsing these as separate ideas but I'm just not sure they're co-dependent.