82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

@jtav, that might put it about where you'd expect, in terms of number of options.

[jtav]

The artificiality is one of the reasons I don't care about the universe. I'll save Miranda and Liara, but everyone else can go to hell. It's all about filling up the readiness bar, now.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The artificiality is one of the reasons I don't care about the universe. I'll save Miranda and Liara, but everyone else can go to hell. It's all about filling up the readiness bar, now.

I do care, because I separate the universe from the decision patterns. And after all, Miranda lives in it, it can't all be bad

But I wish for an epilogue option where Shepard and Miranda, plus a few thousand like-minded individuals, put together an expedition and go create a new civilization somewhere in the far reaches of the galaxy. In that scenario, I would even envision them with children.

As for decision patterns - I'm sure people are sick of hearing it - I'm yearning for a decision pattern like in the WItcher games. The games have *only* choices which are suboptimal from some point of view, and no point of view is presented as inherently better than the other. Also CD Project is unafraid to give the player their just reward for stupid choices: In TW2 you can die from a wrong decision in the prologue, of all things. Game over. It's indicative of how bad ME's decision patterns are that I was genuinely delighted when I got that game over screen. Too bad that I'm still stuck in the Kayran fight and will likely never complete the game unless I find a god mode cheat.

-----------------------

@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure. Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler*. Details see here.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:10 .

[Ieldra]

And I'm finally in a mood good enough to post this. Forgive me for being cheesy, but Miranda's wink lights the universe...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:15 .

[jtav]

She's done something to me, that's for sure. I've become the kind of romantic obsessive I normally mock. She can have whatever she likes from Shep, whatever the cost.

[Skullheart]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And I'm finally in a mood good enough to post this. Forgive me for being cheesy, but Miranda's wink lights the universe...

snip

That wink can make the reapers go away...

EDIT: btw, Yvonne has been casted for "I, Frankenstein." The production is at its early state. could this intervene with she voicing Miranda?

Modifié par Skullheart, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:32 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And I'm finally in a mood good enough to post this. Forgive me for being cheesy, but Miranda's wink lights the universe...

All is forgiven

So, bioware, can we get a screenshot or some concept art or something?

These last couple of weeks have really sucked, remind me never to be a fan of anything ever again.

Skullheart wrote...

EDIT: btw, Yvonne has been casted for "I, Frankenstein." The production is at its early state. could this intervene with she voicing Miranda?

I saw that. I doubt it would interfere, since she will have to do her VA for Miranda very soon, I would imagine. It's a pretty small window, really, if she's actually not going to start until Chuck is over with. She tweeted, what? 13 days left? So, I guess she could be in the studio for ME3 a little while after that, maybe early December.

Modifié par flemm, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:38 .

[Ieldra]

Skullheart wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And I'm finally in a mood good enough to post this. Forgive me for being cheesy, but Miranda's wink lights the universe...

snip

That wink can make the reapers go away...

ROFL.
Imagine that. Miranda the goddess. "This galaxy does not deserve to be saved, but I have mercy" *wink* *Reapers explode into dust*

[jtav]

That's pretty much how Matt thinks of her. A goddess. The first time they met, she terrified him because she was too perfect to be real. Melodramatic artist, that's Matt.

Modifié par jtav, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:39 .

[Vertigo_1]

flemm wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

EDIT: btw, Yvonne has been casted for "I, Frankenstein." The production is at its early state. could this intervene with she voicing Miranda?

I saw that. I doubt it would interfere, since she will have to do her VA for Miranda very soon, I would imagine. It's a pretty small window, really, if she's actually not going to start until Chuck is over with. She tweeted, what? 13 days left? So, I guess she could be in the studio for ME3 a little while after that, maybe early December.

That's comming out in 2013

[MACharlie1]

My goodness people. Consider this:

Yvonne is in LA. One of Bioware's recording studios is in LA. Yvonne, I'm pretty sure, doesn't work on Chuck 24/7. A recording session is only 4 hours max. There are 24 hours in a day, 7 days in a week. That's 168 hours per week. I'm sure she has time even now to do her voice overs.

[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

That's comming out in 2013 [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

The Frankenstein movie? Yeah, what I meant was that it likely wouldn't interfere with ME3, given that the game will go gold in late January or so.

MACharlie1 wrote...

My goodness people. Consider this:

Yvonne is in LA. One of Bioware's recording studios is in LA. Yvonne, I'm pretty sure, doesn't work on Chuck 24/7. A recording session is only 4 hours max. There are 24 hours in a day, 7 days in a week. That's 168 hours per week. I'm sure she has time even now to do her voice overs.

Theoretically, but it's odd that she hasn't been announced as returning yet. It seems likely that she would be, once she's in the studio.

Modifié par flemm, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:52 .

[Vertigo_1]

[quote]flemm wrote...
Theoretically, but it's odd that she hasn't been announced as returning yet. It seems likely that she would be, once she's in the studio.
[/quote]

Mordins' VA has yet to record either (for now).

I'm thinking they are leaving their recordings last or close to the end.  There's still a few months like you said

---------------------
[quote]@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure.
Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler*. Details see here.[/quote]
[/quote]

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 18 novembre 2011 - 07:17 .

[Ieldra]

Also they're still writing dialogue, and Miranda's parts were more imcomplete than most others' in the leaked script. I guess her parts will be recorded late. I say that's a good thing because they can still react to feedback. Not saying that they will, but it's at least possible....

-----------------------

@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure. Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler*. Details see here.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 novembre 2011 - 07:06 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Also they're still writing dialogue, and Miranda's parts were more imcomplete than most others' in the leaked script. I guess her parts will be recorded late. I say that's a good thing because they can still react to feedback. Not saying that they will, but it's at least possible....

With that in mind...

@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure. Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler*. Details see here.

[GuitarShredUK]

 @MACharlie1 "Yvonne, I'm pretty sure, doesn't work on Chuck 24/7.", @flemm etc:
Right, plus they're all almost done:

twitter.com/#!/Y_Strahovski/status/137236362108735489

Yvonne says...

13 shooting days to go on Chuck holy crap!!!!!!

I don't think we have anything to worry about. Who knows, she may tweet about it when she's about to start e.g. "So, I'm about to start on a certain video game..." or something like that, then we can all rest easy. 

[Ieldra]

Here's Miranda talking about her time with Cerberus. A bit too much monologue, perhaps, but I lack the patience to turn it into a full scene. I believe most of her fans could get behind this:

Shepard: "What kind of work were you doing all those years?"
Miranda: "Mostly espionage and sabotage. You recall that uproar about the Hegemony copying our carrier designs that suddenly died down? They'd managed to make improvements to them. I stole their results and manipulated their records to show a fundamental non-compatibility with their military doctrine. The funding for their project was withdrawn, and we had the improved designs."
Shepard: "That doesn't sound so bad. Nothing Alliance Intelligence wouldn't do."
Miranda: "Espionage wasn't so bad. Could be nice and elegant if executed well. And I make good plans. Counter-intelligence was worse. The things I had to do to people I considered colleagues, sometimes friends. And before you ask, I regret the necessity, but I'd do it again."
Shepard: "I know the feeling. Aratoht, you know."
Miranda: "Then you understand. Those were the good years. We even outwitted the STG, if you can believe that. They'd infiltrated the manufacturer producing our communication systems in order to bug every patch of components we got. I and my team fed them false information that led to the exposure of several of their sources. The codes we extracted from them enabled us to listen in to all their communications with their base on Sur'kesh for two weeks."
Shepard *laughs*: "Was there ever a successful Cerberus operation that didn't involve you?"
Miranda *smiles*: "There was a reason why I came to lead the espionage and sabotage division."
Shepard: "What I don't understand is this: why did Cerberus all those things. Why didn't AMI?"
Miranda: "Structures in the Alliance are too transparent. They didn't have a hope against the likes of the STG. People don't want to hear it, but accountability requires transparency, transparency is bad for covert operations, and failure in covert operations means losing out. Nobody wants to lose out, but neither do they want to pay the price. So we stepped in. There were always ties between Cerberus and the Alliance."
Shepard: "And of course you used every opportunity to place your people in the right positions."
Miranda: "Of course. Who wouldn't."
Miranda: "But then there was the disturbing stuff. I had an argument with the Illusive Man after the Yandoa incident. I said that was unnecessary. We could test eezo tolerance on cell samples before approaching viable subjects for experimental exposure, with no risk of death or mutations in the children, which meant we'd have volunteers. He said it would take too long, what's done was done and it wouldn't need to be repeated."
Miranda: "I made my own test series after that. I identified the gene responsible for eezo tolerance in humans. When I presented the results he vetoed my decision to channel them through ExoGeni for publishing. That was the first time I thought about resigning."
Shepard: "Why didn't you?"
Miranda: "I don't know. I should've, really. I felt he was betraying what Cerberus stands for. But we were a clandestine organization. I was already highly placed but there were many things I didn't know. I assumed there was a point in his decision and accepted it. There was also Oriana to consider."
Miranda: "And after that....I suppose he kept me away from projects like that. I didn't think about it - perhaps I didn't want to - until you brought me to Pragia. There was the recording, but the whole setup had the mark of the Yandoa incident."
Shepard: "I didn't want to say it in front of Jack but you sounded as if you tried to convince yourself."
Miranda: "Perhaps. It doesn't matter anymore. Cerberus isn't the organization I joined anymore. Perhaps it never was. That's one thing I'd like to know before I put all this behind me."
Shepard: "Don't tell me human advancement has lost all meaning for you."
Miranda *smiles*: "Not at all. But I'm thinking of something new. A science foundation and R&D company. I tentatively call it 'Project Prometheus'. Stealing fire from the gods. I've always liked the symbolism. Where it will go? No idea. But it won't be like Cerberus."

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 novembre 2011 - 09:56 .

[flemm]

Interesting stuff. Basically, the key points, it seems to me, are the following:

Miranda was highly suited for the type of covert operations she was conducting at Cerberus, and she believes in human advancement. So, it was a good fit as long as TIM kept her in the dark to a certain degree, probably aided at least somewhat by the complexities of Miranda's background.

[CrutchCricket]

Oh wow, I didn't think we were still doing the dialogue. The number of posts since then suggested we had moved on. I had something and then deleted it.
Crap.
I'll try recreating it. By the way the dialogue I mentioned earlier is on page 727. It's not exactly what you were looking for but it does have the right setting. So I guess this would go after it.

Miranda is rooting through TIM's computer.

Shepard: Find anything?
Miranda: Shepard... I've found everything. Locations of hidden bases. Cyphers and codes. Weapon caches. Data on husks... This is... disturbing.
Shepard: You know what your boss deals in.
Miranda (looking up angrily): No, that is not my boss. My boss doesn't make deals with Reapers. He doesn't feed them innocent people.
Shepard: So he was indoctrinated.
Miranda: I... I don't know. There's nothing here to suggest he ever had direct contact with a Reaper. He's- it wasn't always like this you know.
Shepard: You mean Cerberus.
Miranda: Cerberus saved and protected me. It protected Oriana. That's why I joined. But that's not why I stayed. They didn't just offer protection. They offered me purpose. (sighs) You don't know what it's like to be constantly told you're built to be perfect and berated for failure all in one sentence.
Shepard: Your father must've been a real monster if Cerberus was the lesser of evils.

Miranda: It wasn't like that. I was young but I wasn't stupid. I started out in an espionage cell. I found and used damaging information on dozens of politicians and corporate executives. I stole valuable research data. I even coordinated assasinations. You don't do that kind of work for long if you don't believe in the cause.

Miranda: I saw what Cereberus wanted to do. I read the Manifesto. There was no confusion about what human advancement meant back then. It meant pushing the envelope. Building a technology instead of just complacently using another's. Attempting to understand and replicate it instead of taking comfort in ignorance. Always looking to rise above our current lot in any way necessary. The ideals appealed to me. I was part of something great and I was helping create something greater.

Shepard: Create something greater than what your father did? Surpassing him would finally shut him him up, even if just in your head.
Miranda: Yes... I suppose that was part of it. Though I never consciously thought of it that way.
Shepard: With those ideas, I'm guessing you didn't stay a spy for long.
Miranda: (smiles) No. Didn't have much taste for it. I was good but it wasn't where I excelled. The Illusive Man monitored my progress. He saw that I was better suited to managing operations or leading research projects than I was in the field. So one day he personally reassigned me.

Shepard: What did you think of the Illusive Man when you first met him?

Miranda: Few people ever met him in person or even saw his face. Of those that did, most were distrustful or even fearful. I... was in awe. He seemed to see farther that most people, to understand more. He saw more potential in me than my father ever did.

Shepard: You looked on him as a mentor?

Miranda: In a way. Back then he seemed the embodiment of Cerberus, an expression of what I wanted to accomplish. (shakes her head) People see what they want to see.

Shepard: So he lied to you about what Cerberus did?

Miranda: Not lied. He didn't have to lie. Independent cells remember? Even in the later years I only knew of a fraction of operations. It was easy to hide the less desirable aspects from the more scrupulous. I saw discrepancies in what other agents believed we were about. No one bothered to correct their misconception. In a way we were all working for a different version of Cerberus while only the Illusive Man knew the whole web.

Shepard: What do you think his goals were? What was he trying to accomplish?

Miranda: Difficult to say. Dominance seems like the easy answer. But dominance itself can lead to stagnation. The krogan destroyed their civilization over and over rather than succumb to that. I don't think the Illusive Man would've stopped there. Whatever his plans may have been, they all went out the window once the Reaper threat became known.

Shepard: It sounds like you're defending him again.

Miranda: No, just explaining as best as I can. I was working for a Cerberus that didn't exist. I know that now.  Even without the Reapers the Illusive Man would've needed to be stopped. But the latest Cerberus wasn't the true intended one either. It was the desperate struggle of a man who saw too far.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 19 novembre 2011 - 03:02 .

[flemm]

Hmmm, nicely done, CrutchCricket. It's an interesting topic. I'm going to have another go at it as soon as I find the time. I think your take is one of the better ones that has been posted so far.

Modifié par flemm, 19 novembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[enayasoul]

Nicely done Crutchcricket.

[jtav]

Very nice.

[Ieldra]

Very good, Crutchcricket. You do the complex matter more justice than I did, to my chagrin. Though I'm not so sure about the last paragraph. Come ME3, I guess there will be a lot of debate about how much the Reaper problem turned TIM into who he is, or if he always was as ruthless. As for this part::

CrutchCricket wrote...
Miranda: I saw what Cereberus wanted to do. I read the Manifesto. There was no confusion about what human advancement meant back then. It meant pushing the envelope. Building a technology instead of just complacently using another's. Attempting to understand and replicate it instead of taking comfort in ignorance. Always looking to rise above our current lot in any way necessary. The ideals appealed to me. I was part of something great and I was helping create something greater.

That's what I've always assumed Miranda's ideals were. I used to hope that that was indeed once the true face of Cerberus, but unfortunately evidence is against it. Or maybe I'm thinking in a too simplisitic way and there was never one true face of Cerberus. After all, I still believe that protecting humanity from then-unnamed menace he saw when he touched the Reaper artifact in 2157 has always been part of TIM's agenda.

Any opinions about whether or not Miranda knew that detail about TIM? The contact with the Reaper artifact? After all, she must've been wondering about his eyes.

BTW, speaking of eyes...


-----------------------

@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure. Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler*. Details see here.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 novembre 2011 - 10:08 .

[alperez]

I always got the impression that in a lot of ways TIM's relationship with Miranda was like a father/daughter thing, that the ideals Miranda had and believed she found in Tim were a direct replacement for the realisation of what her father's ideals were and that in Tim she found someone like but unlike her father.

When you see the 2 of them together at the beginning of me2 there's a closeness that i don't think i've seen anywhere else certainly in Tim's case, but that closeness is almost like a father with a favoured child or a child that the father sees a lot of potential in so they mentor that child that much more.

In terms of the reaper thing again its because of how i see that relationship that i always imagined Tim confiding a bit more about his own experiences with the artifact to Miranda than anyone else, so i'd say she knows, perhaps not the exact details, perhaps Tim gave a more basic explanation or an explantion which painted him in an even better light.

Considering he then entrusts her with both the lazurus project and placed her with Shepard to see the mission through it makes sense that Miranda had more knowledge of the reapers than anyone apart from TIm himself and perhaps Shepard, although the collector ship mission kinda shows he doesn't tell even Miranda everything.

But its one of the worst aspects of not having a Miranda/Tim confrontation in me3 because to me that relationship breaking down probably hurts MIranda even more than anything her father did, what's the saying you can choose your friends not your family.

I think a lot of the Miranda/father issues are dealt with in Miranda's case, she knows who and what he is and what he's capable of so even with what he does in me3 its no real surprise or betrayal, wheras TIM's actions are both and even worse because like i said i believe in Tim, Miranda found the father she always wanted, so the betrayal is much more cutting.

Modifié par alperez, 19 novembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Ticktank]

Want to know how Miranda will look like in ME3? Open a gmail account, click compose mail and just type in a few lines of text. Create 3 such drafts.

That's what she will look like. Lobby harder Miranda fans. It'll be pathetic if the final product turns out that way.