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[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Hello fellow Mirimancers/Mirimaniacs! :happy:   (hope you reply)

What did I miss?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[Melra]

Nyoka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

A retcon does not require a contradiction. It is a reinterpretation. As the text says, in its simplest form, a retcon is any plot point that was not intended from the beginning.

As the text says, a retcon is "reframing past events to serve a current plot need". And there are no past events to reframe in this case.

It is a plausible suppostion.

Sorry, I only accept arguments.

It is not as simple as that. See my previous post for the explanation.

Yes, it really is as simple as that. The identity thing is irrelevant in your game, since in your game, she is straight. No identity crisis. I thought you said in your mind she is established as straight. That's okay. You don't need to change your mind on that. She will continue to be straight for you.

If her character being bi is likely to result in a lesser implementation of the romance, then I have grounds to prefer the s/s options not to be present.

Good thing then that her character being bi is not likely to result in a lesser implementation of the romance, as proven by the most developed NPC in the Mass Effect series, who incidentally happens to have also the most developed romance related dialogue, including even lines regarding Shep's other romances.

My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why people bother to be so strongly against it, it won't take anything away from them. If it somehow does, it's their own doing.

[Alessar1288]

As long as it isn't done badly, but considering how bland I considered the Dragon Age 2 romances.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I said hello.....

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 05:39 .

[The Uncanny]

SoulfulStarfish wrote...
I feel Miranda would make an excellent Spectre. Shepard isn't the only one with that fire which makes people follow him into hell itself. I think Miranda has that too even though she says she hasn't. She's a very determined, strong individual and she would do anything to succeed.

Hey, I would gladly follow Miranda into hell itself....

Indeed! 

Miranda is an excellent leader, capable, intelligent and powerful.

She is the only person who my Shepard would accept orders from.

[Bocks]

Melrache wrote...

My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why people bother to be so strongly against it, it won't take anything away from them. If it somehow does, it's their own doing.

Better to not have it and not risk anything in the process or have it and ruin the characters. Not everyone is bisexual, Miranda most of all never, EVER gave me any vibe of that sort. The only person on the Normandy SR-2 that ever gave me the impression they were bisexual was Jack. Everyone else just... doesn't make sense.

[Zjarcal]

Melrache wrote...

My thoughts exactly. I don't understand why people bother to be so strongly against it, it won't take anything away from them. If it somehow does, it's their own doing.

*playing as a female Shepard*

Dialogue option for Shepard: "That's a nice ass you got there Miranda."

Player: "Yeah, that's not a flirt option at all, I'll choose it as a friendly compliment!"

Miranda's Response: "Ooh, well I wasn't aware you found my body so... attractive"

Player: "Eh, is she taking this as flirting instead?"

Next dialoge option: "Mind if I get closer to you so I can examine it carefully?"

Player: "Oh, yeah, Shepard's gonna do that for science"

*player selects the option*

....

*Miranda/FemShep smexytime begins*

Player: "WTF?!? I didn't mean for that to happen!!!"


----------------------------------------------------------------------

If that happens to someone they only have themsels to blame. Or they could just sit back and enjoy the show. 

[Batlass8]

*de-lurks*

Personally, I think of Miranda as bisexual, but I think that's largely due to my jtav fanfic addiction. However, as someone who thinks it would be out of character for Ashley Williams to suddenly express interest in femshep (despite the deleted option) without some sort of incredible explanation for it, I can appreciate the position that Miranda's been presented as straight, and should remain as such. Ieldra, your fear that adding new romance options for Miranda would result in an overall decrease in the amount of time put into the continuation of the romance for those Shepards that have already romanced her seems perfectly legitimate to me. Would you prefer that she not be a new romance option for any Shepard, male or female?

Still, I think a discussion of the possibilities/probabilities of Miranda's sexuality in ME3 probably won't end up going anywhere productive. We all have our opinions, and discussion is likely to entrench us in our positions rather than foster real cohesion. And as Errol pointed out, there are other threads to discuss characters' sexuality on these forums. Although I'm just a lurker (and a bit of a hypocrite, considering what I posted above), I'd humbly suggest that the thread move on to other topics.

@Uncanny: I agree that Miranda has more of those Spectre qualities than Ashley. In particular, she's got an understanding of, and appreciation for bureaucracy that Ashley (at least as we know her in ME1) doesn't have. If you consider her biotics, knowledge of tech, combat skills, and long history of competent service as a top Cerberus operative, and Miranda's basically been the Cerberus equivalent of a Spectre: operating independently as a first/last line of defense confronting seemingly insurmountable problems. Even more, her ability to see the grey means that she'd take advantage of the Spectre "license to kill" without abusing it. Before the announcement/implication that the VS was going to be made a Spectre, I was really hoping Miranda would be a Spectre. Alas, you can't always get what you want.

*re-lurks*

Modifié par Batlass8, 24 juin 2011 - 05:44 .

[PMC65]

The Uncanny wrote...

Would Miranda make a good Spectre? Personally I think she'd be a more suitable candidate than Ashley.

I think that Ash could make a good Spectre .. the gal saw her whole team go down in a geth attack on Eden Prime and when Shepard & Kaidan arrived, she was ready to go back for more. She was a good marine as noted by her record, was part of the crew that stopped Saren, the geth and saved the council (if optioned). After all, Shepard didn't do it alone. And who knows really what she has accomplished since Shepard "died" (1.5-2 years time). To be honest, the VS has a bigger resume now than Shepard at the start of ME1. She's a survivor, warrior but I am concerned about her diplomatic skills. She can be blunt so we will see how the years have changed her. I was also more blunt years ago until I got into management. Yu grow both as a person and professional through experience.

Would Miranda make a good Spectre? To be honest, I would see her going into politics more than the Spectre program. She has an ability to manage and inspire people of intellect (her crowd) ... not psychos (yes, I'm looking at my buddy Jack ). I don't think she wold want that role either. But if Bioware went that route ... I'm ok. To be honest I'm not making any guesses on what is coming with the characters (major or minor).

NOTE: I like both Miranda & Ash ... and Liara, Tali, etc. Not really into hating any of the crew that had Shepards back. Although I do keep femshep AWAY from Jacob ...     not Jacob's fault (yes, I'm looking at you Bioware!)

[jtav]

I don't think she would, for the simple reason that her goals are not aligned with the Council. She's not racist, but she's wedded to human advancement, not galactic harmony.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

*tries to wave his hand in the crowd*

I said hello. Can no one see me?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 05:49 .

[Apollo Starflare]

I think both Miranda and Ashley have the potential to make great Spectres, but Spectres with very different styles and skillsets. Afterall I imagine you get all sorts of different Spectres, all with different methods.

[PMC65]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

*tries to wave his hand in the crowd*

I said hello. Can no one see me?

Are you being ignored?

Hello *waves hand*

[slimgrin]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

Awesome, another thread endlessly discussing ******-hetero-bi-whateversexuality. Exactly what this forum needed.

I have to agree. Nothing good comes from the discussion.

On topic: always thought Ashley is a more uncompromising and realistic character than Miranda was. Glad to have her back.  

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 juin 2011 - 06:04 .

[Caihn]

My opinion about a bi-sexual Miranda :
I wouldn't mind if Bioware give the possibility to FShep players to romance Miranda, and IMO there is nothing in the game that proves she can't be also attracted to females.
Also, this could make me decide to play my FShep again.
But, since Miranda is modeled from a real person, I think Bioware will have to ask the approval of Yvonne first.

Batlass8 wrote...

@Uncanny: I agree that Miranda has more of those Spectre qualities than Ashley. In particular, she's got an understanding of, and appreciation for bureaucracy that Ashley (at least as we know her in ME1) doesn't have. If you consider her biotics, knowledge of tech, combat skills, and long history of competent service as a top Cerberus operative, and Miranda's basically been the Cerberus equivalent of a Spectre: operating independently as a first/last line of defense confronting seemingly insurmountable problems. Even more, her ability to see the grey means that she'd take advantage of the Spectre "license to kill" without abusing it. Before the announcement/implication that the VS was going to be made a Spectre, I was really hoping Miranda would be a Spectre. Alas, you can't always get what you want.

I agree.

And I dream to have 3 spectres (Shepard, Miranda and Kaidan) in the same team.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[Jebel Krong]

PMC65 wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Would Miranda make a good Spectre? Personally I think she'd be a more suitable candidate than Ashley.

I think that Ash could make a good Spectre .. the gal saw her whole team go down in a geth attack on Eden Prime and when Shepard & Kaidan arrived, she was ready to go back for more. She was a good marine as noted by her record, was part of the crew that stopped Saren, the geth and saved the council (if optioned). After all, Shepard didn't do it alone. And who knows really what she has accomplished since Shepard "died" (1.5-2 years time). To be honest, the VS has a bigger resume now than Shepard at the start of ME1. She's a survivor, warrior but I am concerned about her diplomatic skills. She can be blunt so we will see how the years have changed her. I was also more blunt years ago until I got into management. Yu grow both as a person and professional through experience.

Would Miranda make a good Spectre? To be honest, I would see her going into politics more than the Spectre program. She has an ability to manage and inspire people of intellect (her crowd) ... not psychos (yes, I'm looking at my buddy Jack ). I don't think she wold want that role either. But if Bioware went that route ... I'm ok. To be honest I'm not making any guesses on what is coming with the characters (major or minor).

NOTE: I like both Miranda & Ash ... and Liara, Tali, etc. Not really into hating any of the crew that had Shepards back. Although I do keep femshep AWAY from Jacob ...     not Jacob's fault (yes, I'm looking at you Bioware!)

ash is a grunt, not elite spectre material. i have to agree with jtav that miranda isn't really, either - miranda is also more of a SB-type & elite project manager than a pan-galactic end-of-the-line saviour/hellbringer.

[Ieldra]

The Uncanny wrote...
Would Miranda make a good Spectre? Personally I think she'd be a more suitable candidate than Ashley.

Yes, I agree. Miranda has more of a Spectre's mindset than Ashley ever expressed, and plainly Ashley's a good soldier, but a Spectre isn't defined by combat. A Spectre is more of an operative combined with commando than a soldier. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[Jebel Krong]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Kelly.

kelly's not a "proper" romance - i.e. it doesn't follow any of the traditional paths of any of the others, and whilst that may be a factor of her late-stage addition to the game, it doesn't really count.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri would be an AMAZING and POWERFUL Spectre.<3<3<3<3^_^

The only problem is the Alliance. They wouldn't want to give her a Spectre rank due to her history with Cerberus.

The Alliance won't budge. Even if I were to vouch for Miri.

Miri would be the PERFECT Candidate for a Spectre Status.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 06:21 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

Kelly is a proper romance with flags and everything.

I agree that Miranda would be better Spectre material than Ashley and Kaidan, but I sincerely doubt, that she would accept such a title. She has all the skills she needs to get her missions done, special authority granted by the Countil or not.

Modifié par Errol Dnamyx, 24 juin 2011 - 06:26 .

[Jebel Krong]

MisterJB wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
no, that just means at the time no preference has been established - you need actual evidence for that: like consistent established behavioural choices - for example - liek Miranda has established, same with Garrus etc. not desperate opinion.

If FemShep used the same lines ManShep does and Miranda reacted differently to them, then it would have been extablished that Miranda is heterosexual.
Since that is not the case, there's absolutely nothing that indicates Miranda would refuse a relationship with FemShep had she approached the issue.

again, stop trying to prove absence of denial = evidence of anything. real-life doesn't work like that, nor does character behaviour in (consistent) fiction.

@ your pic of liara - ignoring the anthropomorphisation of aliens and fanservice elements, Liara is still an alien and at least as much of her "romance scene" is a mental communion as it is being lucky that the other parts actually fit.

Master Shiori wrote...

Considering the distinct lack of  information about her sexual preference or history, other than a brief relationship with Jacob which Miri doesn't even bring up at any time, I'd say there is nothing solid to base the whole "Miri cannot be bisexual" argument on. Sure, FemShep cannot flirt with her in ME2, but she couldn't flirt with Garrus in ME1 either and I don't see anyone saying how Bioware ruined Garrus' character by making him attracted to other species. We simply lacked proper information about whether or not Garrus would ever consider a relationship with FemShep.

if it had been a factor, it would have been mentioned - it wasn't = it's not. same goes for femshep - if BW had wanted there to be any room for manoevre, they'd have kept the options open and the lines the same - they didn't, which means they didn't want any ambiguity there and Miranda is straight.

naledgeborn wrote...

If Miranda were a lesbian or bisexual she should have been in Mass Effect 2. At the very least it could have been openly stated or subtly implied like Jack. It wasn't therefore making it so in Mass Effect 3 is a retcon. 

Yes, I get it. Not every lesbian or gay will openly broadcast their sexual preference or stereotypically act a certain way. But that is real life, not a video game.

this. same goes for garrus/thane etc.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 24 juin 2011 - 06:34 .

[jtav]

I'd only doubt her loyalty to the Council.

[Zjarcal]

Jebel Krong wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Kelly.

kelly's not a "proper" romance - i.e. it doesn't follow any of the traditional paths of any of the others, and whilst that may be a factor of her late-stage addition to the game, it doesn't really count.

So because she's not a squad mate she doesn't count, even if her romance actually has more depth than most other romances (where you can actually flirt with her and court right from the start and even have a date with her, instead of just having one or two lines and the pre-suicide mission sex).

Yeah. Right. <_<

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 juin 2011 - 06:27 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

@ jtav
I wouldn't blame her. The Council is forever ignorant.

They looked at and doubted Shepard as if he where the boy who cried "WOLF!":unsure:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 06:26 .