82210 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Hmm.....are you, perchance, unaware of the fact that we do know how he got his eyes? And that he has been aware of the Reapers - though most of the time in form of some unnamed menace - since 2157? In 2157 he was a partisan in the First Contact War, his real name is Jack Harper, and ME:Evolution tells the tale of how he came to be touched by a Reaper artifact, which brought him into a short mind contact with them and changed his eyes. He knew all the time, and everything he did since then was influenced by the awareness of this threat.

Yes but does Miranda know about the eyes? I thought the question was would she know what to make of his eyes and he can easily lie about that.

Otherwise I have said before I only know info from the games (I was actually trying not to delve into his past that much). Are you saying there was no Cerberus before 2157? If that's the case I can still modify my version to say that he was preparing for "the unnamed menace" but he didn't know what he was up against until recently.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 19 novembre 2011 - 10:41 .

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Hmm.....are you, perchance, unaware of the fact that we do know how he got his eyes? And that he has been aware of the Reapers - though most of the time in form of some unnamed menace - since 2157? In 2157 he was a partisan in the First Contact War, his real name is Jack Harper, and ME:Evolution tells the tale of how he came to be touched by a Reaper artifact, which brought him into a short mind contact with them and changed his eyes. He knew all the time, and everything he did since then was influenced by the awareness of this threat.

Yes but does Miranda know about the eyes? I thought the question was would she know what to make of his eyes and he can easily lie about that.

Ah. I see. Yes, the effect could be achieved through other means.

Otherwise I have said before I only know info from the games (I was actually trying not to delve into his past that much). Are you saying there was no Cerberus before 2157? If that's the case I can still modify my version to say that he was preparing for "the unnamed menace" but he didn't know what he was up against until recently.

There was no Cerberus before 2157. Jack Harper published his manifesto in 2157 and took up the moniker "Illusive Man" after being called that by officials reacting to his manifesto. It was a reaction to the First Contact War - and of course his contact with the Reaper artifact. The message from the Reapers he got was pretty specific: "Your time is almost at an end. It is the way of things. It is inevitable. You can't fight it. You can't avoid it. You have but two choices: you can hide, or you can accept your fate. We are your destiny."

As for Miranda, likely she didn't know about the event of 2157, but she must've been wondering how he knew so much about the Reapers.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 novembre 2011 - 10:54 .

[coogi]

i dunno if this has already been posted but someone leaked some part of the script from the leaked beta, i don't know if this will get removed or censored or whatever because i'm not a common poster but like all of you i love miranda and was extremely disappointed by what i read originally about her involvement...anyways here ya go

http://n4g.com/news/...d-miranda-story

[MisterJB]

I...have no words.

I guess it's a testament to the quality of Ieldra's dialogue.

[flemm]

coogi wrote...

i dunno if this has already been posted but someone leaked some part of the script from the leaked beta, i don't know if this will get removed or censored or whatever because i'm not a common poster but like all of you i love miranda and was extremely disappointed by what i read originally about her involvement...anyways here ya go

http://n4g.com/news/...d-miranda-story

Ahhh... the text at that link is something Ieldra posted back on page 831. Not sure what's up with that exactly...

[coogi]

oh damn my bad, i went back a couple pages but couldnt find it...my bad!

anyways thats potential good news that there will at least be a romance scene (i.e. "some time later" in that script) still its quite disappointing that it seems she won't be a major RI in ME3

[flemm]

coogi wrote...

oh damn my bad, i went back a couple pages but couldnt find it...my bad!

No, I mean Ieldra (a poster here) wrote it. It's not from the game.

Modifié par flemm, 19 novembre 2011 - 11:28 .

[coogi]

ohhhh yeah now i see it...damn sorry about that

well written Ieldra! (even though now im even more depressed lol)

[coogi]

sorry bout the double post

Modifié par coogi, 19 novembre 2011 - 11:37 .

[alperez]

CrutchCricket wrote...

alperez: While I believe Miranda might have thought that way (though not consciously. I have an issue with her still needing a father figure) I think it was more mentor-protege than father-daughter. And only on her end. She saw what she wanted to see. TIM had other plans and used her like he used anything else.

Maybe i didn't explain it as well as i meant, I actually meant it as almost a combination of both, The relationship now is more mentor/protege but i envisioned it starting out more as father/daughter, originally, when TIm first approached Miranda imo her feelings regarding what she lost in her own father where in some ways transferred to TIM, he became everything her father was not, over the course of time though the relationship changed and those feelings have been replaced by a more mentor/protege type relationship.

I agree though its almost a non conscious thing on Miranda's part and on TIM's its not as prevelant, for his part i see a bit of the mentor/protege relationship but it could never be allowed to flow to a natural conclussion because that would mean the student taking over from the teacher and TIM's way too much of a control freak to let that happen.

Tim has definetely used her as much if not more than he's used anyone else also, although i'd also say in some respects the line is a little more murky because Miranda's goals and Tim's in a lot of case's were the same, so he probably hasn't made her do anything that she wouldn't have done anyway.

I think as well that imo she's find Tim's betrayal to be worse than anything her father did, almost blaming herself for believeing and trusting a man that in the end turned out even worse than her own father.

[magicalpoop]

I hope Miranda gets sucked out the airlock and dies. She's a pretty 1D character.

So perfect that she has an inferiority complex and is cold as hell....<yawn>

[jtrook]

 In light of all this, I don't think Miranda would be indoctrinated. Her only exsposure(that we know of) is the illusive man's eyes and the reaper tech found through out the ME2 story. She quit Cereberus and (in my loppy train of thought) should still be on the Normandy. Of course this is coming from the guy who couldn't stomach the renegade playthrough. So I don't if she quit on that one too. Here is my two thoughts and NINJA OUT!

[Dr. Doctor]

The interesting thing with TIM is that he could act as a foil for Shepard. Both of them experienced the visions induced by the Prothean Beacons but whereas Shepard had the benefit of the Cipher, TIM has had to live with the images of the extinction of an entire civilization without any sort of context other than the fact that said threat is still out there.

Seeing that would give a reason why Cerberus so often resorts to extreme measures, TIM was shown the coming apocalypse, but wasn't exactly given a timetable, so he needs every weapon he can get in his arsenal no matter how he manages to acquire it, to some he may be a terrorist, or a monster, but in his mind he's simply trying to help his race survive.

I'm sort of hoping that we get to see him as the morally ambiguous character that we're introduced to in ME2, rather than the comic book villain that we see in Retribution.

[Ieldra]

coogi wrote...
i dunno if this has already been posted but someone leaked some part of the script from the leaked beta, i don't know if this will get removed or censored or whatever because i'm not a common poster but like all of you i love miranda and was extremely disappointed by what i read originally about her involvement...anyways here ya go

http://n4g.com/news/...d-miranda-story

ROFL. A prime case of how rumors start. I'm flattered that my little piece I first posted here is mistaken as part of the leaked script, but unfortunately that is 100% pure fanfiction.

@Bioware:
But maybe that's an indication of how appropriate it would be to include something like that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 novembre 2011 - 08:09 .

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

They Call Me Tim wrote...

For being so "perfect", she's quite the opposite. Very flawed.

I hope she comes back in ME3, but not as a squadmate. A brief cameo would be perfect. Make more room for the characters who aren't working for the enemy. >.>

Shush! You're sabotaging our efforts!

[JosephDucreux]

They Call Me Tim wrote...
I hope she comes back in ME3, but not as a squadmate. A brief cameo would be perfect. Make more room for the characters who aren't working for the enemy. >.>

*Image removed,  see Site Rule # 2*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 20 novembre 2011 - 10:21 .

[Amaterasuomikami]

magicalpoop wrote...

I hope Miranda gets sucked out the airlock and dies. She's a pretty 1D character.

So perfect that she has an inferiority complex and is cold as hell....<yawn>

I think it's pretty clear she uses the "perfect" tag as a shield. And I'm not sure it's an inferiority complex, more than she doesn't feel she is a real person because her upbring was so controlled, which is why she was so determined her sister had a normal life. Also if you get the Shadow Broker DLC you learn something very interesting about her at the end.

But, hey, the argument that other ME2 characters are two dimensional could be made. Jack had a horrible life and is an angry kid in an adult's body. Garrus was betrayed and wanted vengeance. The point is that the characters with predictable personalities change over the course of the game if you interact with them. If you do Miranda's loyalty mission and talk to her she drops the "Ice Queen" facade at least to you.

[flemm]

Amaterasuomikami wrote...

I think it's pretty clear she uses the "perfect" tag as a shield.

Well, factually speaking, she doesn't use the "perfect" tag for herself at all. It's other people that use it. For example, Shepard uses it, after Miranda tells him about her genetic enhancements, but Miranda explains that this is not so.

Modifié par flemm, 20 novembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Ieldra]

As for Miranda being 2D, that's plainly not true. In fact, one problem with Miranda's character is that she has so many aspects to her character, which are not always well-integrated. Her competence clashes with the determination of the game to showcase her flaws, her social ineptitude clashes with her backstory, her detached demeanor clashes with her behavior in the conflict with Jack, and the romance is a tangle of the brilliant and the cheesy.

I think the writers compromised too far in their efforts to make her better-liked. Rather than showcasing her flaws and giving her that social inepitude (to say nothing of the infertility *grrrr*), they should've said more about what exactly her father did that made her run away. Together with her dedication to her sister and a developing trust in Shepard's competence, it should have been enough.

Anyway, that ship has sailed. As I said elsewhere, the execution is good in places and poor in others, but not fatally so. And if the Miranda in my head is less socially inept than the game shows us and I must pretend the engine room doesn't have any windows, I'll live with the inconsistency and hope ME3 isn't determined to prove my altered image wrong.

[Ieldra]

New topic for discussion that appeared while I was talking with Elyvern about her fanfic:

When Miranda ran away from her father, taking Oriana with her, would she have entertained the thought to keep Oriana and raise her herself? Regardless of that it was impossible in practice, would she have wanted to?

And before you say that this feels wrong, consider that given their peculiar genetics, there is no way to distinguish a clone sister from a clone daughter unless very special circumstances apply. The relationship established between them would draw on culture and social constructs exclusively, and given that Miranda was around 17 when she ran and Oriana a small child, it's not implausible. Miranda's attitude towards her sister also has more than a touch of the maternal.

And more food for thought: Miranda has protected Oriana for a long time and she loves her. We've been debating if such a love can plausibly exist and be maintained without more interaction between them than "take her away and give her to trustworthy adoptive parents". In other words, has Miranda visited the family, perhaps incognito and in disguise, to see how things were developing?

(Note that Miranda's infertility should not come into this. At the time she discovered that, the relationship - if you can call it that - with Oriana was already established).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 novembre 2011 - 03:44 .

[wright1978]

In response to Ieldra's question. No i don't think Miranda would have ever entertained keeping Oriana. It is clear she wanted for Oriana what she never had, ie a normal life. Miranda could never offer her that. Being brought up with Cerberus, constantly at threat of their father's wrath. In my mind too Miranda of 20 years ago was likely thinking of making her mark on the world not children.

[flemm]

@Ieldra, some of the contradictory stuff you're referring to (quite a bit of it actually), really only exists for the moment in the SB dossier, so unless it translates somewhere into the actual game world in ME3, I think it can/should be considered separately.

As far as Miranda's material in the basic ME2 game is concerned, it's pretty complex and not always perfectly consistent, but I don't think it can be said to be contradictory.

Ieldra2 wrote...
When Miranda ran away from her father, taking Oriana with her, would she have entertained the thought to keep Oriana and raise her herself?

I'm not sure the material in the game actually supports the idea that Miranda took Oriana with her when she left. I don't believe there's any explicit information one way or another, but to me the LM suggests that Miranda taking Oriana away from her father is a separate event.

Anyway, beyond that, I do think Miranda's relationship with Oriana has a maternal aspect, but I'm not sure that would have been developed enough initially for Miranda to consider raising Oriana herself.

Modifié par flemm, 20 novembre 2011 - 04:21 .

[Td1984]

@ Ieldra

I think it's plausible the idea crossed Miranda's mind. However, again, she was 17 and on the run from their father. She probably realized that it would be incredibly difficult to raise a child while on the run. Especially as wright pointed out, Miri wanted Oriana to lead a normal life. That wouldn't have been possible under those conditions. So Miranda probably didn't consider it for very long.

Once things got more stable as Miranda got older, that's when she became interested in trying to have children of her own.

[Skullheart]

I think that Miranda really wanted to keep and raise Oriana. But she knew that she couldn't give her a normal life. Oriana needed a norman homw with both paternal figures. While Miranda was working for Cerberus she was unable to give Oriana those things.