82210 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Actually, yes, that *is* the first hypothesis we must make. For that would appear logical unless we get evidence that they do things differently. They could, of course, but nobody would assume that by default. First you'd think "It must be here somewhere", and then you look, don't find anything, and conclude they do things differently or you don't know what to look for. You just don't hypothesize "They do things differently" and conclude you don't need to look. That's just stupid.

We are not assuming by default. We have had previous contact with the Collectors, we have been to one of their ships. Mordin studied them. They are tools for the Reapers, nothing else.

Unless, of course, you do not *want* to look. Or you do not want there to be anything useful. With a passion...

I have already acknowledged that the Base must contain useful Reaper technology that we can adapt to benefit us. I have simply refused the possibility that, given what we know about the Collectors and Reapers, there are any sort of blueprints in there.

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra: I've been willing to debate the tiniest detail of one line with you because hey, still 3 months to go, what else are we gonna do? That being said, hinging all of this reasoning (for both sides) on one word... It could be a throwaway for all we know. Or like I was thinking when Skullheart brought up Collector cloning, something that just slipped her mind.If you've just spent hours fighting for your life and are faced with a monstrosity, can you really be faulted for not seeing the one little cherry tucked off to the side somewhere? The whole point of my tech argument was to show there was no evidence for assuming there was any useful techonology aboard other than to make Reapers. But if there was something, a mere subtle hint of something else that could be studied but it was overshadowed by the horrific main purpose could you really fault Miranda for not seeing it, given she wasn't at her best?

But we keep at this when we should move on. That second picture is actually very close to what I mean it might even be a few seconds before/after. They're both awesome though. I really felt like they were together during that scene, not just romantically but also as fellow warriors. Maybe that was my projection more than what was actually there.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...

While i don't agree completely with Ieldra's take on the scene i can share the worry about the Miranda we will meet in ME3. I worry that if she doesn't get enough content/a big enough role what we'll get is a one size fits all Miranda that focuses on the uncontentious areas of her arc(oriana etc) and doesn't allow for divergence.

Agreed that it's a legitimate concern. Miranda should not be a safe character: she should have an edge and do some things that provoke debate, that are contentious, etc. A lot of that comes from the more "professional" side of the character, while the personal side is less controversial.

Miranda should have her eye on the big picture, as well as on her personal concerns. As long as she does, I think we'll be fine. It's true that it's a bit... disconcerting that the leaked material seems to focus primarily on the personal. But it's incomplete, and Miranda seems to have some big-picture stuff going on that's unfocused for the moment, but feels unfinished. So, we'll see.

We've voiced our concerns on that point, and no doubt will continue to do so. Beyond that, we just have to hope for the best.

Modifié par flemm, 24 novembre 2011 - 11:44 .

[alperez]

We really are placing a lot of faith in the missing or presumed missing content though, which does worry me because in a lot of ways the safe or what Bioware consider what the majority of fans want option seems to be a route they're taking.

Ashley being glammed up, the VS being given the role that most wanted etc, would or could suggest that its not actually the fans of a particular character (unless your a dextro fan) that Bioware are trying to appease but the non fans which is technically the larger fanbase.

What i mean by this is while us Miranda fans appreciate and look forward to seeing the complexity of her character shown, its that complexity which non fans may want removed.

[Skullheart]

Bioware already screwed the squad henchmen with their ME1 favoritism.

My major concern now is that Miranda might end in the limbo after her mission....

[flemm]

alperez wrote...

We really are placing a lot of faith in the missing or presumed missing content though, which does worry me because in a lot of ways the safe or what Bioware consider what the majority of fans want option seems to be a route they're taking.

Well, I'm not really putting faith in it, at least I wouldn't put it that way. For one thing, there's some actual evidence in the leak for missing material (how much or what kind is very much open to debate, of course).

Also, I'm definitely not going to assume it's there, moreso the opposite. That said, all we can really do for the moment is keep talking about what we want.

Ranting about what's not there but should have been can come later

That said, where Miranda is concerned, I think the jury's still out. The stuff we're seeing actually leaves open some scenarios fans have been asking for all along. And, to be fair, it actually contains some stuff that fans have been asking for.

Beyond the question of screentime, the main issues are too much focus on the personal, rather than the big picture, and the missing piece of Miranda's Cerberus arc that we have been griping about here for some time now. We'll see. The omissions are fixable, and I could see them being fixed in a final version while the rest of what we're seeing stays basically intact.

So, that's what I'll be rooting for until we see the final product.

Skullheart wrote...
My major concern now is that Miranda might end in the limbo after her mission....

Mine as well. She needs something to do after her mission, and it should be big picture-related. Still, I think that part can be plausibly understood as unfinished in the leak.

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:37 .

[STJebus]

agreed with skullheart^^ sooo ****in pissed at bioware

Modifié par STJebus, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:48 .

[alperez]

I agree all we can really do is keep talking about what we want and hope that its either already been addressed in the missing content or it will be adressed in the game itself.

What i meant in terms of not listening to the fanbase's was actually more in relation to other characters specifically the VS, which if carried forward with Miranda would explain why certain omissions are present and why they the focus seems more on the personal rather than other aspects of her character arc.

Personal storyline for Miranda creates no real grey area, whether you like her or dislike her, whether you understand or don't her character, if you just focus on the personal aspects it removes a lot of potential grey areas, making the character more sympathetic to non fans.

If you take the VS fanbase as an example, generally they're annoyed with the direction Bioware seem to be going with the character, however the non VS fans (probably the majority after Horizon) are probably over the moon, so if this pattern is repeated it could spell trouble for us Miranda fans.

The difference is perhaps we're getting slightly better treatment in there doesn't seem to be any character assassination going on in Miranda's case, its more a sin of omission at the moment.

Although again you could argue that the omission if it makes it to the game itself is in some ways character assassination also.

Anyway, that's enough pessimism from me, (note to self must try to stay positive).

[Xilizhra]

I wonder... shouldn't Jack have just as much a chance to whack Cerberus as Miranda?

[Skullheart]

Jack doesn't have the resources to harm Cerberus.
One of the things that I wanted was mission were Miranda request Jack assitance to take down a Cerberus facility. The banter betwen them could have been fun.

[MisterJB]

I like what Bioware is doing with Jack in ME3. I find it to be a fitting and satisfying conclusion to her story arc.

Spoilers Jack protecting Biotic children from Cerberus. That's just perfect

[MisterJB]

Replaying that which I suspect will remain my favorite part of the Mass Effect series, The Suicide Mission.
Miranda and Shepard playing hide and seek.

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

I like what Bioware is doing with Jack in ME3. I find it to be a fitting and satisfying conclusion to her story arc.
 

Agreed, very fitting.

In fact, all of the returning characters end up in a place that seems to conclude their story arcs. Jack's is particularly appropriate and significant compared to many of the others, but everyone ends up in a place where they belong, at least according to the characters themselves in the script (many actually say that, or something like it).

Miranda does not. She's in limbo at the end of her mission in the leak. That would be a huge omission if it stays that way, but there are some indications in the script, I think, that it won't. Also, it would be really odd for Miranda to be singled out that way. So, on this particular point, I think a "wait and see" approach is best.
 
Though it will be worthy of an epic rant if it stays this way

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Xilizhra]

If she is limboed, I wonder if it's because there's so much division on what to do with her in the fanbase.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...

If she is limboed, I wonder if it's because there's so much division on what to do with her in the fanbase.

Not a good reason, if so, but it could explain some hesitation on the part of the writers. ME is a game that allows for player choice to affect outcomes, so a choice can always be provided, if that is deemed necessary.

Anyway, I think there are some pretty strong indications in the script that this part was unfinished at the time. We'll see.

@JB, awesome screens

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 01:34 .

[Xilizhra]

flemm wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If she is limboed, I wonder if it's because there's so much division on what to do with her in the fanbase.

Not a good reason, if so, but it could explain some hesitation on the part of the writers. ME is a game that allows for player choice to affect outcomes, so a choice can always be provided, if that is deemed necessary.

It's quite possible they hadn't decided what to do with her when this was written.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's quite possible they hadn't decided what to do with her when this was written.

Agreed, see  edit above.

[spirosz]

MisterJB wrote...

snip jack spoiler

That makes me so happy, thanks for posting

Modifié par spiros9110, 25 novembre 2011 - 03:02 .

[pplr]

Ieldra2

You're likely right. So would ME3 have an explanation or (perhaps better) a correction.

[uhdnrt]

Mass Effect Marathon 2

Hey everyone. Just passing along that the Marathon is beginning. It's for the Child's Play gamer's charity. So click on the link, watch and support your favorite character!

[wright1978]

MisterJB wrote...

I like what Bioware is doing with Jack in ME3. I find it to be a fitting and satisfying conclusion to her story arc.
 

I don't personally. The Jack i've got in one of my playthroughs is a renegade who butchers a troubled ex Cerberus prisoner in cold blood.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
But we keep at this when we should move on. That second picture is actually very close to what I mean it might even be a few seconds before/after. They're both awesome though. I really felt like they were together during that scene, not just romantically but also as fellow warriors. Maybe that was my projection more than what was actually there.

I had the same impression. 100%. Miranda acts as Shepards co-commander here, and this scene has been the foundation of my impression they can work together seamlessly in this capacity. What I wrote into the wishlist as "we want Miranda to walk at Shepard's side instead of just following" comes true in this scene. ME3 will be hard-pressed to give us another one like it. Quite possibly this scene will remain my favorite Miranda-related scene of the whole trilogy.

For those who don't know what we're talking about:


In my next run I'll try to make more shots of this scene. It's not easy to do because the best moments are...well....moments.

@MisterJB:
Epic screenshot sequence. Thank you!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:13 .

[Ieldra]

uhdnrt wrote...
Mass Effect Marathon 2

Hey everyone. Just passing along that the Marathon is beginning. It's for the Child's Play gamer's charity. So click on the link, watch and support your favorite character!

Thanks and done. LOL. That's a great incentive. Never would've thought of it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2011 - 11:54 .

[Ticktank]

I wasn't active in these forums before ME2 arrived, so I need to ask - how exactly did BW inform the Liara, Wrex and VS fans that their characters were not returning as squadmates in ME2? I'd imagine how disappointing it must have been for them.

Was it all hush hush right to the end? A big, open reveal 3-4 months before release? Or half-truths during interviews etc? Or worst...denial i.e. "Wrex is going to get an awesome in-depth appearance in ME2!"

I'm trying to get a sense of whether BW is using the same PR tactic for Miranda in ME3.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If she is limboed, I wonder if it's because there's so much division on what to do with her in the fanbase.

Not a good reason, if so, but it could explain some hesitation on the part of the writers. ME is a game that allows for player choice to affect outcomes, so a choice can always be provided, if that is deemed necessary.

Anyway, I think there are some pretty strong indications in the script that this part was unfinished at the time. We'll see.

I'm not too worried about Miranda's endgame contribution. There will be one. If it's suitably epic, that's a different question.

My worry is about her presence at a certain location where she should....must....be present to give suitable closure to her Cerberus story arc.

As for division, I'm getting a vibe of division among the writers as well. Don't ask me why.

@Ticktank:
I don't recall. I think they said they would have cameos. As for Miranda, we already know she won't be on the team and she'll be more than a cameo. Though that's the state of things a few months ago, both are unlikely to change if you ask me. For more, you'll have to go into the spoiler group. The material pertaining to her appears to be more incomplete than other characters', so there is some uncertainty left.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 novembre 2011 - 12:12 .