82210 réponses à ce sujet

[berserkerblob]

As a former member of the pro-human separatists group called cerberus, she would be a bad choice to represent the citadel council and its races.
She once stood up against the citadel as she fought for cerberus and therefore she isn't any trustworthy and there is no reason to promote somebody who isn't supposed to be loyal to the citadel council.

[Caihn]

Saren, Tela Vasir and a pro human Shepard were better choices ?

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2011 - 06:34 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

@ berserkerblob

Even if she helped save the Galaxy? That woundn't be fair.

Especially if she were to put her life on the line to help stop Cerberus. She deserves SOMETHING.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[LiquidGrape]

Zjarcal wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Kelly.

kelly's not a "proper" romance - i.e. it doesn't follow any of the traditional paths of any of the others, and whilst that may be a factor of her late-stage addition to the game, it doesn't really count.

So because she's not a squad mate she doesn't count, even if her romance actually has more depth than most other romances (where you can actually flirt with her and court right from the start and even have a date with her, instead of just having one or two lines and the pre-suicide mission sex).

Funny thing is, that wasn't even the point we were arguing from the beginning. Jebel claimed that FemShep has never been allowed to express an interest in other women, and I replied with "Kelly". Regardless of the actual romantic path (which, incidentally, I agree is probably one of the better in either game), Kelly proves FemShep has been allowed to be played as a bisexual or even lesbian character.
Guess the context was lost somewhere on the way...

Anyway, I believe we've exhausted that particular discussion. As for Miranda being a spectre, I agree she'd probably be one of the better picks based solely on her skill and ability.
Ideologically, however, I'm not sure the council would be comfortable in acknowledging her, considering her past with Cerberus. Even if she resigned by the end of ME2 as part of the paragon ending, I suspect she'd always be viewed with caution.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 24 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[Jebel Krong]

Yannkee wrote...

Saren, Tela Vasir and Shepard were better choices ?

tela vasir was almost a renegade shepard. saren was also, until indoctrination took over. yes those two are better spectres - and there's nothing wrong with that, the spectres are only the most elite for a reason (another reason ME3s "forced" promotion of the VS grates so much - neither were anything like the proper material).

[Errol Dnamyx]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

@ berserkerblob

Even if she helped save the Galaxy? That woundn't be fair.

Especially if she were to put her life on the line to help stop Cerberus. She deserves SOMETHING.

I don't think she'd care about the Councils opinion about her. She's too busy using her special skillset to stop the Reapers with a little help from Shepshep.

[MisterJB]

Spectre is too small for Miranda. The Illusive Woman and sole CEO of the Eldfell-Ashland Energy corporation seems much more appropriate.

Jebel Krong wrote...
again, stop trying to prove absence of denial = evidence of anything. real-life doesn't work like that, nor does character behaviour in (consistent) fiction.

You misunderstand me. I didn't claim there was any evidence pointing towards Miranda being bisexual. I simply said there is no evidence indicating she isn't.

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 juin 2011 - 06:39 .

[Ieldra]

Nyoka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
A retcon does not require a contradiction. It is a reinterpretation. As the text says, in its simplest form, a retcon is any plot point that was not intended from the beginning.

As the text says, a retcon is "reframing past events to serve a current plot need". And there are no past events to reframe in this case.

What part of "any plot point that wasn't intended from the beginning" didn't you understand?

It is a plausible suppostion.

Sorry, I only accept arguments.

A plausible supposition *is* an argument. It is not conclusive on its own, but it contributes. 

It is not as simple as that. See my previous post for the explanation.

Yes, it really is as simple as that. The identity thing is irrelevant in your game, since in your game, she is straight. No identity crisis. I thought you said in your mind she is established as straight. That's okay. You don't need to change your mind on that. She will continue to be straight for you.

As I said, my perception of the character is not only shaped by my own experience. So no, it is definitely not as simple as that.

If her character being bi is likely to result in a lesser implementation of the romance, then I have grounds to prefer the s/s options not to be present.

Good thing then that her character being bi is not likely to result in a lesser implementation of the romance, as proven by the most developed NPC in the Mass Effect series, who incidentally happens to have also the most developed romance related dialogue, including even lines regarding Shep's other romances.

Don't get me started about Liara. Her fandom is the main reason I've gotten so allergic to the whole topic, in spite of having a great appreciation for the character herself *and* her f/f romance. I hate that it pops up everywhere and there's no escaping it. My god, at this point it appears almost worth to have a f/f romance for Miranda just to get people to shut up about it, thrice damn it. Only I refuse to leave the s/s promoters the sovereignity of interpretation just because of the disproportionate amount of noise they're making.

Really, these endless debates are responsible for s/s romances having turned from something I passionately support to triggering my beserk button.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 juin 2011 - 06:41 .

[LiquidGrape]

MisterJB wrote...

Spectre is too small for Miranda. The Illusive Woman and sole CEO of the Eldfell-Ashland Energy corporation seems much more appropriate to me.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[ArrenDusk]

I support this thread.

[jtav]

MisterJB wrote...

Spectre is too small for Miranda. The Illusive Woman and sole CEO of the Eldfell-Ashland Energy corporation seems much more appropriate.

I go back and forth on which of these I want more. TIW provides influence but theres something so feel-good about the reject taking up the life she was always meant to have.

[Jebel Krong]

MisterJB wrote...

Spectre is too small for Miranda. The Illusive Woman and sole CEO of the Eldfell-Ashland Energy corporation seems much more appropriate to me.

Jebel Krong wrote...
again, stop trying to prove absence of denial = evidence of anything. real-life doesn't work like that, nor does character behaviour in (consistent) fiction.

You misunderstand me. I didn't claim there was any evidence pointing towards Miranda being bisexual. I simply said there is no evidence indicating she isn't.

no, i understood you completely - you're one of the crowd that says that unless that a character flat out says "i'm straight" off the bat, there's always room for interpretation there, when actually the character's history and behaviour is just as important when establishing who they are - just like in real life. and, yes, people hide stuff IRL - like sexual preference, but we're talking about people who have been together through harrowing experiences and saved the galaxy together - people like that just don't end up with too many secrets from each other.

tbh a s/s relationship with miranda would almost get me to brave the awful VA of hale again, as i have a great custom femshep, so i'm not 100% against it on that level, just on a "it just doesn't fit certain characters - who have displayed consistent heterosexual traits - including miranda" one.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 24 juin 2011 - 06:45 .

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Spectre is too small for Miranda. The Illusive Woman and sole CEO of the Eldfell-Ashland Energy corporation seems much more appropriate.

I agree with that. The debate was about Miranda being a good Spectre should she have the opportunity and will to become one. She would be a competent Spectre, but I don't think she would want to be one, nor do I think it would be the best position for her.

[Caihn]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Saren, Tela Vasir and Shepard were better choices ?

tela vasir was almost a renegade shepard. saren was also, until indoctrination took over. yes those two are better spectres - and there's nothing wrong with that, the spectres are only the most elite for a reason (another reason ME3s "forced" promotion of the VS grates so much - neither were anything like the proper material).

The fact that they are renegade is not an escuse. The fact is they were not loyal to the council anymore.
Miranda has excepional abilities which fit for the Spectre status. And concerning her loyalty, if the council can accept a pro human shepard, they can also accept Miranda.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 juin 2011 - 06:47 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Would ANYONE Like to see Cerberus COMPLETELY Destroyed, and then Miri creates a new FAR Better and Trustworthy Organization out of the ashes, alongside with us (Shep)?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 24 juin 2011 - 06:49 .

[Costigan_n7]

I know this isn't the best thread for this but I have a question many could answer swiftly.

My first play through I didn't care if everybody lived but this second time I was going for the achievement where all survived and I could have sworn I did everything right but Mordin and Jack bit the dust.

I chose Legion for the vents, Garrus to lead the decoy squad. Sent Grunt back with the survivors, picked Samara for the biotic barrier and Jacob to lead the team to hold the line. Basically exactly what IGN told to do in the walkthrough. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.

Oh, and I wouldn't be against the idea of a f/f romance option with Miranda IF a player hadn't romanced her with a male Shep in the ME2. Though who would do that right?

[Jebel Krong]

Yannkee wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Saren, Tela Vasir and Shepard were better choices ?

tela vasir was almost a renegade shepard. saren was also, until indoctrination took over. yes those two are better spectres - and there's nothing wrong with that, the spectres are only the most elite for a reason (another reason ME3s "forced" promotion of the VS grates so much - neither were anything like the proper material).

The fact that they are renegade is not an escuse. The fact is they were not loyal to the council anymore.
Miranda has excepional abilities which fit for the Spectre status. And concerning her loyalty, if the council can accept a pro human shepard, they can also accept Miranda.

vasir was still loyal to the council. miranda has exceptional abilities for sure, but that doesn't necessarily equate to specte suitability - she's not the out-and-out combatant shepard, saren or vasir are/were for one. miranda though possesses a lot of skills similar to mordin - intellect, research, clandestine projects, which spectres don't need, so she would be better used elsewhere anyway.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 24 juin 2011 - 06:53 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Costigan_n7 wrote...

I know this isn't the best thread for this but I have a question many could answer swiftly.

My first play through I didn't care if everybody lived but this second time I was going for the achievement where all survived and I could have sworn I did everything right but Mordin and Jack bit the dust.

I chose Legion for the vents, Garrus to lead the decoy squad. Sent Grunt back with the survivors, picked Samara for the biotic barrier and Jacob to lead the team to hold the line. Basically exactly what IGN told to do in the walkthrough. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.

Oh, and I wouldn't be against the idea of a f/f romance option with Miranda IF a player hadn't romanced her with a male Shep in the ME2. Though who would do that right?

I'll help. I'll pm you

[Jebel Krong]

Costigan_n7 wrote...

I know this isn't the best thread for this but I have a question many could answer swiftly.

My first play through I didn't care if everybody lived but this second time I was going for the achievement where all survived and I could have sworn I did everything right but Mordin and Jack bit the dust.

I chose Legion for the vents, Garrus to lead the decoy squad. Sent Grunt back with the survivors, picked Samara for the biotic barrier and Jacob to lead the team to hold the line. Basically exactly what IGN told to do in the walkthrough. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.

Oh, and I wouldn't be against the idea of a f/f romance option with Miranda IF a player hadn't romanced her with a male Shep in the ME2. Though who would do that right?

assuming all are loyal, grunt should hold the line (he's one of the strongest), send mordin back with the others.

[Melra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Saren, Tela Vasir and Shepard were better choices ?

tela vasir was almost a renegade shepard. saren was also, until indoctrination took over. yes those two are better spectres - and there's nothing wrong with that, the spectres are only the most elite for a reason (another reason ME3s "forced" promotion of the VS grates so much - neither were anything like the proper material).

The fact that they are renegade is not an escuse. The fact is they were not loyal to the council anymore.
Miranda has excepional abilities which fit for the Spectre status. And concerning her loyalty, if the council can accept a pro human shepard, they can also accept Miranda.

vasir was still loyal to the council. miranda has exceptional abilities for sure, but that doesn't necessarily equate to specte suitability - she's not the out-and-out combatant shepard, saren or vasir are/were for one.

Loyal, by causing deaths of innocents under known criminal's command? Righty!

[MisterJB]

Jebel Krong wrote...
 people like that just don't end up with too many secrets from each other.

Now, that's just not true, at least on Miranda's case. We don't even yet know what finally prompted her to run away.

tbh a s/s relationship with miranda would almost get me to brave the awful VA of hale again, as i have a great custom femshep, so i'm not 100% against it on that level, just on a "it just doesn't fit certain characters - who have displayed consistent heterosexual traits - including miranda" one.

A fair enough position and one that I actually partially agree with. It might surprise you but, if someone were to ask me which female LI is less likely to be bi, I would say Miranda or Ashley.
I simply don't believe the possibility should be outright rejected.

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 juin 2011 - 06:56 .

[Jebel Krong]

Melrache wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Saren, Tela Vasir and Shepard were better choices ?

tela vasir was almost a renegade shepard. saren was also, until indoctrination took over. yes those two are better spectres - and there's nothing wrong with that, the spectres are only the most elite for a reason (another reason ME3s "forced" promotion of the VS grates so much - neither were anything like the proper material).

The fact that they are renegade is not an escuse. The fact is they were not loyal to the council anymore.
Miranda has excepional abilities which fit for the Spectre status. And concerning her loyalty, if the council can accept a pro human shepard, they can also accept Miranda.

vasir was still loyal to the council. miranda has exceptional abilities for sure, but that doesn't necessarily equate to specte suitability - she's not the out-and-out combatant shepard, saren or vasir are/were for one.

Loyal, by causing deaths of innocents under known criminal's command? Righty!

sounds like any renegade shepard in ME2 to me... a point not lost on vasir herself.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 24 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

What does everyone want to see happen to Cerberus?

Would ANYONE Like to see Cerberus COMPLETELY Destroyed, and then Miri creates a new FAR Better and Trustworthy Organization out of the ashes, alongside with us (Shep)?

[Chaia]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Would ANYONE Like to see Cerberus COMPLETELY Destroyed, and then Miri creates a new FAR Better and Trustworthy Organization out of the ashes, alongside with us (Shep)?

I don't know if I'd want her making one along side Shepard (I think she could handle it herself just fine) but yea I'd like to see Miranda make a new organisation, I just think both Cerberus and the title of TIM/W has too much baggage.

[Rawke]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Costigan_n7 wrote...

I know this isn't the best thread for this but I have a question many could answer swiftly.

My first play through I didn't care if everybody lived but this second time I was going for the achievement where all survived and I could have sworn I did everything right but Mordin and Jack bit the dust.

I chose Legion for the vents, Garrus to lead the decoy squad. Sent Grunt back with the survivors, picked Samara for the biotic barrier and Jacob to lead the team to hold the line. Basically exactly what IGN told to do in the walkthrough. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.

Oh, and I wouldn't be against the idea of a f/f romance option with Miranda IF a player hadn't romanced her with a male Shep in the ME2. Though who would do that right?

I'll help. I'll pm you

Don't send Grunt back with the surviviors. He's important for the "Hold the line" team. Send Mordin, he tends to die very often. Also, take weak people like Jack or Kasumi with you to the end fight. One should be enough so you can still take Miri with you.