82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
ME3 will be hard-pressed to give us another one like it. Quite possibly this scene will remain my favorite Miranda-related scene of the whole trilogy.

Yeah, that could easily turn out to be the case. It's pretty awesome.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I'm not too worried about Miranda's endgame contribution. There will be one. If it's suitably epic, that's a different question.

Well, there'll be something, no doubt. I just hope it's not too non-committal in terms of Miranda's actual involvement. Anyway, too early to tell.

Ieldra2 wrote...
My worry is about her presence at a certain location where she should....must....be present to give suitable closure to her Cerberus story arc.

Well, I'm in favor of the that, at least in theory. There might be other ways to bring the Cerberus story to a close that could also work, though.

The potential problems with focusing on *spoiler location* are that *spoiler character* isn't there, and it's close to the endgame, so Miranda might have to be elsewhere to set up her contribution at that stage.

But, there needs to be something.

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 02:44 .

[Ieldra]

In the same vein....I think this bears repeating:

@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure. Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler location*. Details see here.

[CrutchCricket]

This may be out of left field but I'm wondering if the Cerberus story needs to be finished in ME3. I see the obvious appeal of bringing closure to everything. But it is a galactic war we're talking about. Yes since they're working with the Reapers, Cerberus is a threat and I'd be surprised if TIM doesn't get some sort of thrashing. But I don't think it should be taken for granted that Cerberus needs to be decisively ended by the finale of ME3. There's going to be plenty of cleanup to do afterwards anyway. If the Reapers are defeated I'd expect the command of Cerberus to be killed or captured. But rogue factions could still pop up afterwards. Except now this does just sound like loose ends.

My words are failing me at the moment but what do people think of the Cerberus story extending past ME3?

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I want to see Cerberus obliterated so that we can get this over with and possibly have a less humanocentric story for the next game. The CDN vignettes are good about that.

[CrutchCricket]

Who says inclusion of Cerberus in future media implies anthropocentrism? That may be their agenda specifically but that doesn't mean it has to be all about them.

[CrutchCricket]

MisterJB wrote...Miranda and Shepard playing hide and seek.

Just saw this with the caption. Many lulz were had.

[Xilizhra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Who says inclusion of Cerberus in future media implies anthropocentrism? That may be their agenda specifically but that doesn't mean it has to be all about them.

There's something of a personal element here too: my Shepard feels eliminating Cerberus is a part of her duty.

[jtav]

Cerberus will be dealt with definitively. I guarantee it. They're also going to have to jump forward a few centuries to even think about a sequel.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
My words are failing me at the moment but what do people think of the Cerberus story extending past ME3?

It's not so much that Cerberus' story as an organisation needs to be completed (though it probably will be), it's more that Miranda's story arc needs a satisfying conclusion, which includes dealing with her ties to that organisation and to TIM.

It's too important to the character to be blown off, whatever happens to the organisation itself.

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
There's something of a personal element here too: my Shepard feels eliminating Cerberus is a part of her duty.

Fine. But none of that makes is necessary for it to happen in ME3.

And I'm not referring to Miranda although if I think about it I don't see why her conclusion needs to happen in ME3 either. Certainly we want it to since this is the last confirmed game in the universe. But Cerberus by itself, that can be extended.

By the way I'm not referring to just games as possible continuing media.

[CrutchCricket]

*Post deleted*

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 25 novembre 2011 - 04:25 .

[Abispa]

Even if "Cerberus" is completely destroyed, I doubt we'll see the last of this type of organization. Nothing they've done is without precedent IRL or the ME universe. For starters it appears that the Specters and the Salarian STG have ventured into that territory themselves at times. TIM was amoral and let each team leader have absolute freedom in pursuing their goals, similar to how the council deals with Specters.

In the first game many of the law enforcement officers on the Citadel seemed uneasy with the lack of oversight of Specter operations and their "win at all costs" attitude. In ME2 Mordin has a crisis of faith over his history with the STG. And let's not forget Liara's experience with the Shadow Broker.

Perhaps Shepard and/or Miranda will found a new organization that is meant to be a better version of what Cerberus was supposed to be, but I can see it very easily evolving into something similar.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
And I'm not referring to Miranda although if I think about it I don't see why her conclusion needs to happen in ME3

Because the story will never be told otherwise. It doesn't need to be the end of MIranda's involvement with them, should they survive (which I doubt), but Miranda needs to take a final stance towards her time with them etc. like I pointed out in my post on page 830. The story needs to give closure to that so that Miranda can move on, either towards something else or towards a TIW-like scenario. This story of hers must end so that a new one can begin.

But I think we can take it as given that Cerberus will be wiped out.

[flemm]

Abispa wrote...
Perhaps Shepard and/or Miranda will found a new organization that is meant to be a better version of what Cerberus was supposed to be, but I can see it very easily evolving into something similar.

Well, Miranda has referred to the organisation as humanity's STG, which it isn't in certain important respects, but it's a sign of how Miranda conceives of what its role should be. So, one good scenario would be Miranda founding or helping to found a new organisation that could actually fill that role.

But, somewhere along the line, we would still need to hear what Miranda thinks about Cerberus and her involvement with that organisation. This is crucial for Miranda to move forward from there.

The bright side of the leak is that I could see the material that's there being part of an awesome Miranda appearance in ME3. It's just that some massively important stuff is missing, or appears to be. But a lot of it could plausibly be there in the final product.

Partly that's because it's always been possible to have a great role for Miranda that doesn't involve her joining the squad. Her being on the squad for part of the game, or for certain missions, has always been desirable, but probably less important than the following:

1) Plenty of interaction, as much as with any squad member, minus incidental banter and mission debriefings. So, basically, the same amount of primary conversations. Missing the other stuff would be disappointing, but it's not essential, if Miranda is busy enough elsewhere.

2) Very significant impact on the big picture.

3) A full romance arc, with a romance scene.

4) Some extremely awesome, badass moments when Miranda is on screen.

#1 feels a little thin in the leak, but I could see it getting there. Some dialogs might be via video, which isn't ideal, but it could work as a gap-filler (it would be nice to avoid this, though).

#2 could still happen. There will definitely be some impact, and this part feels unfinished. So, how cool it is, and how significant it is, will be the determining factors.
 
For #3, it's bit hard to tell about the romance scene, as a lot of that wouldn't be dialog anyway, but there's enough romance material in the script (and the quality of it is really strong, easily the best part of the leak) that I think we can be optimistic here.

Otherwise: mega-rant incoming

The quota for #4 could be filled during Miranda's mission, though there should be at least one awesome cut scene. But there is definitely potential for a Crowning Moment of Awesome here (though we need to actually see it).

So, I'm nervous, but there are some good signs.

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 05:43 .

[CrutchCricket]

Well I've done it. My own strategy for pushing character feedback. Check the main thread in my sig. Miranda is obviously well represented but if you wanted to add something...

Oh can someone who has twitter do me a favor and tweet whatever devs you can on there about this? I don't have twitter myself (personal reasons). Thanks.

Well never-****ing-mind!<_<

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[wright1978]

Agree with Ieldra that Cerberus will likely just be destroyed and written off as evil. Maybe they'll claim entire Normandy crew were saved by the magic of Shep's aura. If we're not allowed to salvage Cerberus, maybe there will be the chance of a new STG equivalent, outside of direct Alliance control.

[wright1978]

I don't share your optimistic reading of the situation Flemm. What's there currently stinks of them adding a few frills but to what is otherwise a little role, however well executed it might be done. To me that's not acceptable. I agree there was always a good chance she wouldn't be a full squaddie for the entire game. As far as i'm concerned she needs a significant role in person in the Cerberus arc on top of that at minimum. Romance content wise i won't be happy unless she gets same level of content as other LI's. I'm still clinging to the hope that there's lots of Miranda material missing.

[flemm]

wright1978 wrote...

I don't share your optimistic reading of the situation Flemm. What's there currently stinks of them adding a few frills but to what is otherwise a little role, however well executed it might be done. To me that's not acceptable. I agree there was always a good chance she wouldn't be a full squaddie for the entire game. As far as i'm concerned she needs a significant role in person in the Cerberus arc on top of that at minimum. Romance content wise i won't be happy unless she gets same level of content as other LI's. I'm still clinging to the hope that there's lots of Miranda material missing.

Well, I basically agree with what needs to be there, and I wouldn't say that I'm optimistic, exactly. There's still a good chance that Miranda's involvement will be disappointing overall and missing some key elements. But, the leak is not all bad, so I'm just trying to avoid rushing to conclusions.

Adding a few frills to an otherwise small role may be how it comes across in the end, of course. If Miranda never joins the squad at all, which seems to be a given at this point, it's going to be an uphill battle for it not to seem that way, just because that limits screen time so severely to begin with.

Modifié par flemm, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[Ieldra]

wright1978 wrote...
Agree with Ieldra that Cerberus will likely just be destroyed and written off as evil. Maybe they'll claim entire Normandy crew were saved by the magic of Shep's aura. If we're not allowed to salvage Cerberus, maybe there will be the chance of a new STG equivalent, outside of direct Alliance control.

Outside of Alliance control is unlikely. But given that Cerberus was an Alliance operation once, I think the Alliance might be willing to re-create something STG-like. For those who want Miranda as a free agent, I think the Foundation scenario is the best bet. Or Shepard and Miranda go off and create a new colony out of Alliance space with some like-minded people, where they can try to make their vision of human advancement come true. That would go well with an ending where Miranda's infertility is cured...

[jtav]

Would you guys mind another teaser, or would that be excessive?

[GuitarShredUK]

jtav wrote...

Would you guys mind another teaser, or would that be excessive?

By all means, go for it

[alperez]

Was gonna say i like being teased, but that just does not come across well lol.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Would you guys mind another teaser, or would that be excessive?

Seems you're on a writing roll. Bring it on!

[Dr. Doctor]

Sounds good to me jtav