82210 réponses à ce sujet

[alperez]

The problem with not overreacting is that people were told that the concerns they had for the VS,Liara and Wrex before me2 was released was overreaction, then the game is released and they found that if anything they underreacted.

So while i agree there were too many characters in me2 and a lot could have been eliminated or replaced with other characters, the thing was they didn't go that route, now rather than properly deal with the consequences, the choice seems to have been made to just reduce the roles of every me2 specific squadmate, irrespective of whether or not it makes storyline sense.

Personally i like both Tali and Garrus and i'm glad they play large roles, however when you then see that they are the only 2 from the me2 squad who play a perma squad role it creates a problem for me.

Tali i can understand because realistically she is or should be plot relevant, but when Garrus's plot relevance is compared to other characters, Miranda especially given cerberus larger role it just screams bad writing in order to please a certain fanbase, which is where they come in serious danger of losing me altogether.

Off course the other problem is they really don't care if they lose some people, since they'll be replaced by the wave upon wave of new fans who will inevitably be drawn to the series (sarcasm really is the lowest form of with i know, but i never claimed to be witty).

[Quole]

To be fair, we dont KNOW what ME3 will be like. The leaked script was outdated and could have been misinterpreted. Bioware also stated they may change it, did they not? The fact that most people are turning all their anger and hatred towards Tali and her fans is rather stupid.

Modifié par Quole, 26 novembre 2011 - 12:34 .

[jtav]

Actually quite a number of us don't like Garrus either. The overlap tends to be between fans of the human characters, and Liara to a lesser extent.

[Kaiser Shepard]

So on one hand we have Bioware telling us that we can't create petitions for what we want in the games, but on the other they are so bloody spineless as to cave in and cater to a certain sub-group's every wishes?

Real classy, Bioware.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 26 novembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[MisterJB]

No one was directing their frustation at any fans of Tali before Quole showed up.

[alperez]

Quole wrote...

To be fair, we dont KNOW what ME3 will be like. The leaked script was outdated and could have been misinterpreted. Bioware also stated they may change it, did they not? The fact that most people are turning all their anger and hatred towards Tali and her fans is rather stupid.

We do however have a sense of what direction they're going in, as for how outdated the script is well we won't know that until release and some things may well change by then or not.

Personally i don't expect a radical change from what we've seen in the script to the end product, too much of it seems to make sense in the overall direction the story seems to be heading for it to change significantly, i could be wrong off course.

As for people turning their hatred on Tali or her fans, i'm sure that's true to an extent.

For myself i think i've explained my own views countless times, so to do so again would be just repeating myself and as much as i like to hear myself talk or in this case see myself type it becomes a pointless exercise really lol.

[Quole]

MisterJB wrote...

No one was directing their frustation at any fans of Tali before Quole showed up.

Not the case in the twitter thread.

Modifié par Quole, 26 novembre 2011 - 12:46 .

[alperez]

jtav wrote...

Actually quite a number of us don't like Garrus either. The overlap tends to be between fans of the human characters, and Liara to a lesser extent.

I've a much bigger problem with Garrus's role than Tali's, Tali at least is plot relevant and really should play a significant role imo, Garrus though especially when stacked up against Miranda in terms of plot relevance really does feel forced.

[MisterJB]

Quole wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

No one was directing their frustation at any fans of Tali before Quole showed up.

Well at least one Miranda fan is in the twitter thread.

Thus the answer is to insult the colectivity of her fanbase. One would think that a fan of Tali, one of the most vilified fanbases, would know better.

[Jog0907]

well garrus logic for being squaddie is not plot relevance but him being more likely to follow shepard, same with tali (for garrus its mentioned in the sb dossiers and for tali is said in her fathers email after she rejoins in me2) they would follow shepard anywhere especially in such a moment as the reaper war, while other characters are more likely to find their own ways to act that are much less likely to involve following shepard everywere (as you can tell from the leaks)

Modifié par Jog0907, 26 novembre 2011 - 12:50 .

[Little Red Corvette]

@Quole

This is not the Twitter thread.

[alperez]

Jog0907 wrote...

well garrus logic for being squaddie is not plot relevance but him being more likely to follow shepard, same with tali (for garrus its mentioned in the sb dossiers and for tali is said in her fathers email after she rejoins in me2) they would follow shepard anywhere especially in such a moment as the reaper war, while other characters are more likely to find their own ways to act that are much less likely to involve following shepard everywere (as you can tell from the leaks)

Didn't the sb dossier on Garrus basically say that he could only realise his true potential by not following Shepard though?

But again that's not really my gripe with Garrus, its more that Garrus is not plot relevant yet still on the squad while someone like Miranda who really should be plot relevant is not.

It makes more storyline sense that the plot relevance would take precedence over the Garrus being more likely to follow Shepard than any other character imo.

Besides using that same logic that the other characters are less likely to follow Shepard doesn't really work since they followed Shepard in me2 and the mission they were on pales in significance against the threat they're now facing.

Take Miranda as an example, she in me2 understood the threat the reapers posed and believed Cerberus were doing something to stop that threat, which is pretty much her whole reasoning for the Lazurus project in me2 and her place on the mission to stop the collectors.

So we get to me3, cerberus have joined forces with the reapers, but rather than help Shepard stop both, it makes much more storyline sense that she wouldn't follow or join with Shepard because she's less personally connected than Garrus is, i'm sorry but that excuse just doesn't work imo.

[Bugsie]

*sigh*

As one of those lurkers jtav refers to, I despise when people feel the need to gloat about one character over another. It's petty and stupid.

I've not been privvy to spoilers so I'm trying hard to remain optimistic that Miranda will get a significant role in ME3.

I could say some choice words about what Bioware staff say in public, but I'll refrain out of politeness.

[Jog0907]

alperez wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

well
garrus logic for being squaddie is not plot relevance but him being more
likely to follow shepard, same with tali (for garrus its mentioned in
the sb dossiers and for tali is said in her fathers email after she
rejoins in me2) they would follow shepard anywhere especially in such a
moment as the reaper war, while other characters are more likely to find
their own ways to act that are much less likely to involve following
shepard everywere (as you can tell from the leaks)

Didn't the sb dossier on Garrus basically say that he could only realise his true potential by not following Shepard though?

But
again that's not really my gripe with Garrus, its more that Garrus is
not plot relevant yet still on the squad while someone like Miranda who
really should be plot relevant is not.

It makes more storyline
sense that the plot relevance would take precedence over the Garrus
being more likely to follow Shepard than any other character imo.

Besides
using that same logic that the other characters are less likely to
follow Shepard doesn't really work since they followed Shepard in me2
and the mission they were on pales in significance against the threat
they're now facing.

Take Miranda as an example, she in me2
understood the threat the reapers posed and believed Cerberus were doing
something to stop that threat, which is pretty much her whole reasoning
for the Lazurus project in me2 and her place on the mission to stop the
collectors.

So we get to me3, cerberus have joined forces with
the reapers, but rather than help Shepard stop both, it makes much more
storyline sense that she wouldn't follow or join with Shepard because
she's less personally connected than Garrus is, i'm sorry but that
excuse just doesn't work imo.

Yes the sb dossier did say that, and I think it does prove my point, he will continue following and trusting shepard even when that can mean him not becoming as succesful as he can be by himself.

Also many me2 squadmates followed
him but only once and once the mission was over they moved on with their lives to
fight the war in other fronts that are also important (shep and the
normandy isnt the only defense against the reapers so their desire to fight them is not dependant on woking in the normandy in order to do so) leaving high loyalty to shep as the reason for continuing to follow him,

In the  case of miranda I see her not being on the normandy not as a lack of loyalty to shep but on not wishing to be interrupted by the acts between game (normandy retaken by the alliance and pretty much grounded for months while shep is imprisoned before the trial) so I see her leaving and not coming back asap as she having started what she considered neccesary to fight cerberus without having to wait months to begin it and being stuck in her own fight even once shep regains control of the normandy

Also I dont
consider it neccesary at any level for a character to be plot relevant
in order to be part of the squad, so we simply disagree on that point.

[flemm]

Well, either the devs will make sure Miranda has an awesome, important role in the game, with plenty of interaction, or they won't. That is the only relevant point, really.

So, I'll be rooting for that until I know it's not going to happen, and I will certainly have an earful for the devs if it doesn't. Either way, I don't see the point in wasting time on petty fan disputes.

[Jog0907]

flemm wrote...

Well, either the devs will make sure Miranda has an awesome, important role in the game, with plenty of interaction, or they won't. That is the only relevant point, really.

So, I'll be rooting for that until I know it's not going to happen, and I will certainly have an earful for the devs if it doesn't. Either way, I don't see the point in wasting time on petty fan disputes.

I agree the logic of her character depends a lot on how her me3 actions are tackled, one way could turn her into -removed because of lack of time- or -strong character that doesnt need to be a squadmate do to meaningful things-

[flemm]

Jog0907 wrote...

I agree the logic of her character depends a lot on how her me3 actions are tackled, one way could turn her into -removed because of lack of time- or -strong character that doesnt need to be a squadmate do to meaningful things-

I'm not really sure what you mean, unless you mean that Miranda's role in ME3 will depend on... what type of role she has in ME3?

These are creative choices, made doubtless according to a number of different factors. But obviously, Miranda's role is going to be exactly as important as the devs want it to be. That's all, really.

[MisterJB]

I miss the days we were able to expeculate we might never meetMr. Lawson because there were much more important things going on.

"sigh"

[Jog0907]

Im not talking about her role(actions) Im talking about how her role can add or take a good deal of quality to the character overall, and how that could end in a mostly negative perception of her from most fans once the trilogy is over

[flemm]

Jog0907 wrote...

Im not talking about her role(actions) Im talking about how her role can add or take a good deal of quality to the character overall, and how that could end in a mostly negative perception of her from most fans once the trilogy is over

Well, if her role in ME3 sucks, then I don't expect fans of the character to be happy about it, no.

[Quole]

MisterJB wrote...

Quole wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

No one was directing their frustation at any fans of Tali before Quole showed up.

Well at least one Miranda fan is in the twitter thread.

Thus the answer is to insult the colectivity of her fanbase. One would think that a fan of Tali, one of the most vilified fanbases, would know better.

Well most people I talk to that do the same are from the Miranda thread. What a shocker. Besides, as you clearly didnt notice, I am well aware of that, as I stated that same thing last page. Reading is hard I guess.  If you havent noticed, I could care less about people on the BSN.

Modifié par Quole, 26 novembre 2011 - 02:57 .

[Quole]

Little Red Corvette wrote...

@Quole

This is not the Twitter thread.

Damn. Are you sure?

[Little Red Corvette]

@Quole
Sorry to disappoint

[Quole]

Little Red Corvette wrote...

@Quole
Sorry to disappoint

Maybe Im drunk. IDK.