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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#21451
ubermensch007

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Okay, I had no intention opf this post becoming as long as it is.Image IPB But it was fun to write and think about, nonetheless.If any of you brave to read it.You have my thanks.It began as a post and became sort of an Essay, which I now title:

Operative Miranda Lawson's Charectization in Mass Effect 2:

We all have our strengths, and we all have our weaknesses.And in life, we can either decide to stay as we are.Or learn about ourselves.Strive to better and find ways to compensate for our shortcomings.

With Miranda, I sometimes wonder if she is truly aware of how far she still has to go.She says to Shepard that she makes mistakes, like everyone else.She says to Commander Shepard that he is a far better leader than she is or may ever be.

I see alot of people in this thread saying things like, "Miranda should take over Cerberus or start up a better organization, akin to Cerberus.

As far as getting my vote of confidence with this.There are a few things that give me cause for concern.

I. What Operative Lawson says about the Geth in the Prologue:

They're sending him to fight geth. "Geth" We both know there not the real threat.

Okay.Hold up, wait a minute.Now if I were to meta game, I could say that we later find out that the geth that were hostile towards organics in 2183, only represent a fraction of the geth's true might.They were merely the 'tip of the iceberg' as they say.So Miranda's analysis of the geth threat, comes off looking really idiotic.

But even without metagaming.Miranda still comes off looking like she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about:

After the death of the rogue Spectre Saren Arterius.The only viable lead that Shepard and Co. had on the Reapers were there geth allies.As Tali was able to retrieve valuable intel from a geth.That let the Council know what Saren was playing at.Having her work with Shepard to hunt geth down and find out what else they know.Makes sense to me.

Yeah Miranda, the Reapers are the real threat and there still out there.But the only lead that we have on them is thier geth allies.So what the hell are you talking about?! And on another point, its clear that the Illusive Man didn't concur with Ms.Lawson about how much of threat the geth might be.What with him funding Project Overlord and
all.

II. Miranda statement that if she were in charge.She would have put a control chip in Commander Shepard, in order to "insist" that he does as Cerberus bids. Okay, this would have backfired for so many reasons.If Cerberus would have put an explosive device in Shepard's body and threatened to detonate it if he did not do as they
command.Shepard would have been more preoccupied with finding a way to break free from Cerberus control, than finding a way to defeat the Collectors.

Here is yet again, another example of Jack Harper having far better judgement than she...

III. Miranda is betrayed not once, but twice.In the same damn year, and she doesn't see it coming:

Nobody's perfect, and indeed a good spy or sabotuer is hard to spot, if they are doing what is asked of them, with competence and not asking alot of questions about matters that are none of thier buisness.Or found lurking beside a place (eavesdropping) where higher ups believe themselves to be having a private conversation.How could anyone suspect that thier organization has been infiltrated?

But you would think that an organization as powerful and covert as Cerberus, which has infiltrated many other agencies.Would suspect as much in thiers...Miranda kills the traitor, before finding out who he works for.And why he did what he did.For all we know, Wilson could have been convinced to become a Double Agent for Cerberus.If they made him the right offer.

And for her to justify killing Wilson, b/c taking him with them, would be to risky.Is absurd. Its much more dangerous, to have no idea who your enemies are. You can't fight an opponent, that you can't see.Her
action, kind prevents the whole, "Target aquired, threat neutralized course of action." But TIM, does a sweep of Cerberus cells, to see if they have any other moles.They later find information that reveals that the Shadow Broker was behind Wilson.(Post Horizon, Liara - Lair of the Shadow Broker intel) But no credit can be given to Ms.Lawson.I find what the Illusive Man says to Shepard about what Miranda did, to be very interesting:

Shepard: Miranda killed Wilson in cold blood.

TIM: Miranda did exactly what I expected of her.

Hmm... Is it just me, or does that sound like a very PR response.Notice how what he says, neither condones or condems her action.And by the time Shepard gets to Operative Lawson's Loyalty Mission.He could say the same thing.What with how Miranda tries tokill an unarmed man, Nekat.Except this time.She does ask questions
before she kills the "traitor".

So when its her personal crap.She doesn't shoot first and ask questions later.But when a situation arises that has to do with professional matters.Like the security of Cerberus Command.She shoots first and doesn't even ask questions later... WTF!?

4.Miranda's apology to Shepard:

Its nothing wrong with making amends.But I sort of had to hear that again, when Miri says what she is apologizing to Shep for.

Miranda: I have to apologize to you.I DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE UP TO THE TASK."

If there was ever a moment in the Mass Effect series to allow the player either a paragon or renegade interrupt.This was it. It is important for adults as well as children, to know what is expected of them.So they won't be idle or wonder about aimlessly.

A leader is expected to do three things well.

1. Have a vision.

2. Get people to help you make a dream into reality.

3. Know what those who are working for you or with you are capable of.In order to properly delegate responsibilty and get the best work out of them possible. What Operative Miranda Lawson confesses to Commander Shepard, makes me facepalm and have a sense of disbelief.At her complete and utter stupidity...

Miranda tells us that she has been learning all she could about Shepard for the past two years.While working on bringing him back to life.Well then she should know fully well, that as an N7 Alliance Space Marine:

(My) Shepard distinguished himself by defending the human colony of Elisium from a massive Pirate Invasion.He and his team prevented a nucelar holocaust from happening on Eden Prime.

As the first human Spectre, Shepard goes to Pinnacle Station and breaks all records.Shep and Co.go on to save Terra Nova from a cosmic collision.Fought back an Geth invasion of the Feros Colony and freed
the colonist from mental inslavement to the Thorian.Took out all geth outpost in the Attican Traverse, preventing them from gaining strength in that sector of space.Defeated the legendary Asari Commandos in a
battle on Noveria.Destroyed Saren's Krogan Cloning Facility on Virmire.When Shep and the STG were massivly outnumbered and outgunned.Touchdowned on Illos, followed Saren through the Conduit and
thrawted the Reaper Invasion.

And I'm leaving some stuff out... Now how Miranda could look over the career highlights of someone as skilled, accomplished and a seasoned vet as Commander Shepard is.And think that he is unqualified to handle
their current assignment.Is quite a conumdrum.

My only question for Ms.Lawson is: "If you didn't think that Shepard was up to the task.Who the hell is?!"
This is just another example of the Illusive Man being right and Miranda Lawson being wrong.

As Philoctetes of Disney Hercules once put it: "Rule number 72: Asesses the situation." What Ms.Lawson has shown me is that she does a ****** poor job of doing this! From the first example I givein this post, to the last.And I could've listed a few more.Like when she volunteers to generate the biotic field.In the presence of a human
super biotic: Jack and a Matriarch level biotic, Samara.Sigh...

You know Thanksgiving has just come and gone and it got me thinking about the classic tradition of having the grown ups sit at one table and children sit elsewhere.There are characters in Mass Effect who
have earned their right to sit at the Grown Ups Table:

Like Commander Shepard, Aria T' lok, Jack Harper, Executor Chelick, Dr. Mordin Solus and the Racchni Queen.

While others characters have shown that they belong at Chucky Cheezes Pizza:

Like Tali, Jack, Udina, Balak and Miranda.

2185 was in some ways the best and worst year of Ms.Lawson's life. On a professional and personal level.Her success as the Director of the Lazarus Project and personal achievement of interacting with her
sister and also becoming Shepard's friend or lover.But she also had a rough time of it.Due to Betrayal and Miscalculations.

I have come to see that Miranda in 2185, post Lazarus Project.Was not only demoted, after Shepard's Awakening.She really became an intern.Like a med student who must do a residency or law student who
passes the bar exam and has to do an internship for a year and half.

And I love this journey that she goes on in Mass Effect 2.Even though she may not fully acknowledge it herself.Early on she says that she is hear to make sure Shepard succeds.Later on however, she says to Shep,
that he would have done fine without her.Which strikes me as an admission that perhaps she had more to learn from working with Shepard.

Grunt & Miranda have alot in common.Both being genectically engineered super beings by thier fathers.The difference betwixt them is: Grunt readily accepts Shepard as his Battlemaster and Mentor.He's smart
enough and humble enough to realize that Shepard is someone whom he can benefit from being around.I love Grunt! One of things I like so much about him.Is how he looks at Shepard when you have him in your
shore party.He looks like he's just taking it all in.Like a studious a child.

Miranda on the other hand, isn't so quick to recognize how fortunate she is to have this opportunity to work with a Living Legend! Nah, she has to much pride and ego for that at first.In stark contrast, Operative Jacob Taylor is very enthuisiatic about working with Shepard.Even though Jacob has an impressive Service Record himself.He
knows when he's in the presence of someone who (for lack of a better term) has the blood of the Gods within him.Like some hero of old.Warrior of reknown...

I can't speak for anyone else, but in ME2, my Shepard sort of felt like he was McDreamy of Grey's Anatomy.What with how popular he was with all the lady's, and how he related to some of them.Miranda reminded me very much of Dr.Grey.She is smart, beautiful and gifted.But she is still just an intern and not ready to "Stomp with
the Big Dogs." yet. But oh, how she loves to challenge her superior officer, and thinks from time time, that she knows better than him.And sometimes, she does.But with Shepard and Miranda.Shep has been in the
right like 99.8% of the time.

But this does not make Commander Shepard a "Mary Sue" like Dr.House, he's the best there is, at what he does.As in real life, there always is someone who is Top of the class.

Even  TIM and Miri's batting average is similar to what it is with Shep and Miri.But yet when it comes time to decide what to do with the Collector Base.Miranda thinks in her heart,"Ah yes, this is the time when I'm going to be right and the Illusive Man is wrong!" Mr.Harper should not have said to her, "I order you." He should have reminded
her of how often she thought he was making the wrong choice or taking to big a risk.By saying something to her like:

TIM: Miranda! You thought the geth were no longer a threat.You thought bringing Shepard back was a bad idea.You thought putting a control chip in his head, was a good idea.You were wrong, in all those
instances, where the decision I made, turned out to be the right one.

Even though you disagreed with me.You still followed my orders.Miranda... Trust me now, as you did then."

But unfortunately.This is not what TIM said.But he shouldn't have had to say this to Operative Lawson in the first place.Miranda showed herself to be a true 'wild card' here.

Even though I (originally) like what Miri says to TIM, about the CB.If I were the Illusive Man.Commander Shepard wouldn't even be in my line of sight in Mass Effect 3.But Miranda Lawson better watch her back! It has been said that, "Before you can be a good leader, you must first be a good follower." Miranda in some ways is the worst employee imaginable, for she can't help but second guess next to everything she's told to do.She even goes as far as to say in the presence of Shepard's squad, (when your planning the Suicide Mission). If you
choose someone that she strongly disagrees with: "You got to be kidding me!"

First time I heard her say this is when I decided for the first time ever, to let Jack of all people lead the Fire Team.Jack was my L.I. in this playthrough and I recalled that she once said to me that if I ever said F*ck Cerberus, and the Council.And go pirate.She wanted to lead the boarding party.I also remembered that she and her team
destroyed a space station.So it occured to me that maybe she would do alright as the leader of one of the assault teams.And she did not disappoint me.

And I love how Shepard can get in Miranda's face and make it clear to her in no uncertain terms.That he is not interested in her input here.

Now what I'm getting at is this.Miranda has made my Shepard unsure about her in a way.As a CO, he feels like:

If Miranda could so easily just decide to disregard a direct order  from TIM, after being a part of Cerberus for so long.What's to stop her (in ME3) from defying my orders?! On an important mission.Can I really trust that she will have enough confidence in my leadership and judgement.To do as I say, even if she doesn't agree with me?

You know its funny... I began this post, to talk about Miranda as a Leader and it ends with me talking about her as a Follower.I honestly must say, that I don't know if she's cut out for either role:

As a leader she get's results, but inspite of that; I see her as mediocre at best.Sociopathic at worst.I say she's mediocre because I define mediocrity as doing the bare minium required, to get by.As the Project Director of the Lazarus Cell, she and her team brought Shepard back to life.An extrodinary acheivement.No doubt.But after doing this, her attiude toward her subbordinates is like a woman who suffers from post partem depression.She couldn't care less whether they live or die.Their job is finished, so they are finshed is her attitude.She didn't exactly do what you would think someone in her position would do.(After bringing Shepard back to life.) Pat her employees on the
back.Throw a coporate party in honor of thier success.Nah, she's like:

F*ck them...

And her attitude doesn't change during the Suicide Mission.She just wants to get the job done and go home.Who cares about rescuing the crew of the Normandy SR2.The mission comes first and they knew what
they signed up for...

Now baring this all in mind.Would I work for Ms.Lawson? To paraphrase what Goku said to Vegta: "Nah, I'm going to have to pass.I've seen how you treat your employees.Not a whole lot of job security."

Miranda is genetically blessed.She's shown herself to be highly competent in some spheres and she is a physical marvel.On an aesthetic level and athletic level.But the only sphere in which she has truly
shown herself to not be mediocre but extrodinary; is in her devotion to her younger sister Orianna Lawson.She's her big sister.And she takes that role very seriously.As the elder sibling, she looks out for her younger sibling.And goes as far as to put her own life in danger and kill to protect her.

As a 'Follower' Miranda has proven to be a wild card.

And downright pathologically have the annoying habit of constantly second guessing her commanding officer.So I'm not so sure that I would want her working for me either.

But Ms.Lawson might be best suited as an Ally.Because an ally.She has a high degree of independance, but has decided to cooperate with others, for a mutually beneficial gain...

#21452
jtav

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No. The only missions you can fail are Tali, Thane, and Samara's.

#21453
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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jtav wrote...

No. The only missions you can fail are Tali, Thane, and Samara's.

And Zaeed's.

#21454
DNIdiedAndCameBackAsAHusk

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^

"SHEPAAAAAAARD!"

#21455
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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DNIdiedAndCameBackAsAHusk wrote...

^

"SHEPAAAAAAARD!"

ya dat Zaeed b hella mad wen i help da wrkers so i left hm under da beem cuz he wuz bein hella rud tbh

#21456
DNIdiedAndCameBackAsAHusk

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ye but he alway say dat he be da las one out alive so all da wurkers prolly fall in da fire n die neway n den da beam start meltin so zaeed do da breakdancin n manoover under it so he lift it up n push it off him den he walk away n he all be lyke 'dam u shepard dis takes me back tbh '



tbh

#21457
flemm

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jtav wrote...

Next story is up. In which Matt and Miranda discuss the control chip under unusual circumstances.


Liked it a lot, along with the last few segments you've posted. The control chip is a really fun little detail in so many ways. I could see it almost becoming a running joke between the two characters, over time.

Anyway, I like how it contributes to the mix of emotions Matt is feeling here. Awe and affection, I guess, basically, would be the two main ones.

Overall, I think Miranda works best as a character when there's that combination of deep emotion and icy efficiency.

Modifié par flemm, 29 novembre 2011 - 02:19 .


#21458
jtav

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Aw, thanks. I have another one, if no one minds.

#21459
flemm

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Go for it Image IPB

#21460
Dr. Doctor

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Go ahead. I like the fact that your Shepard has a more emotional side to him. That and the fact that he has more established backstory thanks to your Portrait story.

#21461
flemm

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I haven't read that story, I don't believe, but I do like what the artist angle adds to the character.

#21462
jtav

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Well, it's still the same guy. I'm even using Miranda's identity for that story. It's easier to retcon her father than her.

The face on the screen made his blood run cold. It was a handsome face. High, perfectly sculpted cheekbones, pale skin, and piercing blue eyes. Everyone knew that face. Robert Eldfell was the richest, most powerful man in the galaxy. He could set the price of helium-3 with a snap of his fingers. His Arcian Foundation had jumped the field of genetics forward a century. But that wasn't what Matt thought of when he saw Eldfell. Eldfell had had three daughters. All had died tragically at a young age. The youngest, Claire, had died of a brain hemorrhage when she was sixteen. At least that was the story.

The truth was that Claire had run away and changed her name to Miranda Lawson.

Matt snarled. “What do you want?” He wasn't by nature of vengeful man. The enemy of his enemy was his friend. There were only two people in the galaxy he truly hated: Kai Leng and Robert Eldfell. They weren’t merely threats to be neutralized like mercenaries or the average Cerberus trooper. He wanted them dead in the most painful way he could devise. Eldfell had nearly killed Miranda just so he could have his shiny new biotic and coated himself in so much money and influence that even a Spectre couldn't touch him.

And yet, part of Matt’s mind remained calm. Miranda had said she feared Eldfell and Cerberus were negotiating a deal for the return of Oriana. This could be his only chance to find out more about that, tip Miranda off. As much as he wished he could reach through the screen and crush Eldfell’s windpipe, he had to keep the man talking.

"Very well. Straight to business, then." Eldfell’s voice had the same clipped, precise quality as his daughter’s. "I know you don't like me, Shepard, and frankly. I don’t like you. Your escapades in Nos Astra set me back considerably. But I haven’t gotten to where I am by holding grudges.”

“And your point?”

“I want to make a deal. My agents have noticed you seem to be collecting a large amount of resources, as well as recruiting science teams. I can only assume it has something to do with this war. I can help. EAE’s resources rival those of some species. Fuel for dreadnoughts, technical expertise, genetic modifications for your soldiers. Whatever you need, I can get you."

"And what do you want for this oh-so-generous contribution to saving your own hide." Hell, Matt might even take him up on the offer. He could bleed the man and his company dry before he disemboweled him with a rusty knife. And like it or not, his resources could be useful. Those technical experts could go a long way towards building the Crucible.

"It's very simple. I want my daughter. It was your intervention that denied her to me. That makes you the most logical person to hire to get her back."

"Not on your life."

"Be reasonable, Commander. Oriana is my daughter. Any jury in Citadel space would convict Claire of kidnapping. I only want what's mine."

"So you can implant with eezo and give her demands no one can meet? No thanks."

Eldfell didn't even blink. “By the time Claire was twenty, she had already trained you. Flawed and defective as she is, she's had an enormous impact on the galaxy. What has Oriana done? Mooned after some boy?" He continued, his voice smooth and even, "Let's grant that I am as horrible a father as you seem to think I am. Oriana's life will be ruined. Very well. I'm offering to help you save the galaxy. You might be able to do it without me, but you might not. Is one twenty-year-old—who, as far as I can tell you've never even met—worth the lives of trillions?"



#21463
Guest_Bebe77_*

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jtav wrote...

Well, it's still the same guy. I'm even using Miranda's identity for that story. It's easier to retcon her father than her.

The face on the screen made his blood run cold. It was a handsome face. High, perfectly sculpted cheekbones, pale skin, and piercing blue eyes. Everyone knew that face. Robert Eldfell was the richest, most powerful man in the galaxy. He could set the price of helium-3 with a snap of his fingers. His Arcian Foundation had jumped the field of genetics forward a century. But that wasn't what Matt thought of when he saw Eldfell. Eldfell had had three daughters. All had died tragically at a young age. The youngest, Claire, had died of a brain hemorrhage when she was sixteen. At least that was the story.

The truth was that Claire had run away and changed her name to Miranda Lawson.

Matt snarled. “What do you want?” He wasn't by nature of vengeful man. The enemy of his enemy was his friend. There were only two people in the galaxy he truly hated: Kai Leng and Robert Eldfell. They weren’t merely threats to be neutralized like mercenaries or the average Cerberus trooper. He wanted them dead in the most painful way he could devise. Eldfell had nearly killed Miranda just so he could have his shiny new biotic and coated himself in so much money and influence that even a Spectre couldn't touch him.

And yet, part of Matt’s mind remained calm. Miranda had said she feared Eldfell and Cerberus were negotiating a deal for the return of Oriana. This could be his only chance to find out more about that, tip Miranda off. As much as he wished he could reach through the screen and crush Eldfell’s windpipe, he had to keep the man talking.

"Very well. Straight to business, then." Eldfell’s voice had the same clipped, precise quality as his daughter’s. "I know you don't like me, Shepard, and frankly. I don’t like you. Your escapades in Nos Astra set me back considerably. But I haven’t gotten to where I am by holding grudges.”

“And your point?”

“I want to make a deal. My agents have noticed you seem to be collecting a large amount of resources, as well as recruiting science teams. I can only assume it has something to do with this war. I can help. EAE’s resources rival those of some species. Fuel for dreadnoughts, technical expertise, genetic modifications for your soldiers. Whatever you need, I can get you."

"And what do you want for this oh-so-generous contribution to saving your own hide." Hell, Matt might even take him up on the offer. He could bleed the man and his company dry before he disemboweled him with a rusty knife. And like it or not, his resources could be useful. Those technical experts could go a long way towards building the Crucible.

"It's very simple. I want my daughter. It was your intervention that denied her to me. That makes you the most logical person to hire to get her back."

"Not on your life."

"Be reasonable, Commander. Oriana is my daughter. Any jury in Citadel space would convict Claire of kidnapping. I only want what's mine."

"So you can implant with eezo and give her demands no one can meet? No thanks."

Eldfell didn't even blink. “By the time Claire was twenty, she had already trained you. Flawed and defective as she is, she's had an enormous impact on the galaxy. What has Oriana done? Mooned after some boy?" He continued, his voice smooth and even, "Let's grant that I am as horrible a father as you seem to think I am. Oriana's life will be ruined. Very well. I'm offering to help you save the galaxy. You might be able to do it without me, but you might not. Is one twenty-year-old—who, as far as I can tell you've never even met—worth the lives of trillions?"


your writing is some of the best ive readImage IPB ...... sigh makes me sad that we will never get this level of development(and awesomeness) in the game Image IPB

#21464
Dr. Doctor

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@jtav

I like the idea of the whole "deal with the devil" you have going on between Shepard and Mr. Lawson. I have Shepards who aren't as attached to Miranda as my Winter Soldier inspired one who would actually consider his offer.

#21465
Skullheart

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@jtav

Looking forward what are you writing. I remember that you said that Miranda is the last thing that your Shepard will sacrifice for the galaxy. And here we have Mr. Lawson giving you a deal that can strengthen your allies, at the cost of betraying Miranda.

Have you figured out how Oriana will react to Miranda working for Cerberus?

#21466
Ieldra

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@jtav:
This is fantastic. Hard choices indeed. If that was in the game, I'd have Shepards who'd take the deal. Whether I as the player could bring myself to do it, that's a different question.

@ubermensch007:
I'll get back to you later. But let it be said that your post would be easier to read if you didn't imply "Miranda is childish" at every turn.

And here's to remind everyone that Miranda should not care exclusively about Oriana in ME3. Yes, she's protective of her sister, but it's a damned war for survival. She wouldn't forget the big picture. I would hate it if what she does in ME3 came across as nothing more than a repeat of her ME2 loyalty mission.


----

@Bioware:
Miranda's Cerberus story arc needs closure. Cerberus defined her entire adult life. Why she stayed so long, why she was so dedicated to them to rise high in their ranks, what human advancement means to her, and how she feels about TIM's betrayal, all that needs to be explained. Without it her story would be incomplete. She should be present at *spoiler location follows* the Illusive Man's base. Details see here and here.


Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 novembre 2011 - 06:56 .


#21467
Ieldra

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@ubermensch007:

Miranda's statement about Shepard chasing geth....
...makes perfect sense. It is meant to convey that Shepard is wasted on cleaning-up operations and should concentrate on the real mystery - the hundred thousands of colonists having vanished without a trace. Which, as TIM points out, looks too suspiciously like "harvesting" to be ignored as a possible link to the Reapers.

The control chip
People misunderstand what that control chip was about. As has already been pointed out, it wasn't meant to make Shepard into a mindless follower. It was meant as a safeguard, in case Shepard comes awake and goes berserk or something. It's quite possible that even had she done it, it would never have been used. So while certainly immoral, the control chip makes perfect sense. As fow how it reflects on Miranda's character, I'd say she wasn't totally confident in the outcome of her experiment with bringing a human back to life. She was careful. TIM chose the greater risk. That's perfectly in character for both of them.
BTW, jtav's fanfic (link on previous page) has a very good interpretation.

Wilson
Yeah, that makes no sense. I put it down to bad writing, though. Bioware wanted to showcase Miranda's ice queen persona and introduce her as a badass. It worked even while making no sense. On the other hand, you *can* justify it if you want. It's possible she already knèw who sent Wilson. Why should she tell Shepard, who she doesn't trust yet at this time? Better to brush him off for now.

Miranda's apology
Remember the prologue? Shepard is "a symbol, a bloody icon" and "if he falls, humanity might as well follow". She may be jealous of him, but she knows how important Shepard is and accepts his achievements as extraordinary. So why the hell would she say she believed he's not up to the task later? It *may* be another case of inconsistent characterization that plagues Miranda's dialogue, but it's also possible she was jealous and didn't want to admit it, so she said something that sounds more reasonable on the surface. Also, "I apologize for not trusting you" - which this is really about - hits a little too close to home. At this point, Miranda still wants to retain her professional distance (you get this apology for a non-romanced Miranda as well).

Shepard....
Is one of the biggest Marty Stus in gaming, I'm sorry to say. Miranda has a backstory as a competent operative who has risen high in Cerberus' ranks and - as opposed to many others - actually got impressive results. her backstory says she's *not* socially inept and she's a competent leader if not an inspired one. If such a person is used as a foil to showcase how perfect Shepard's judgments are compared to her own, featuring mistakes she really wouldn't have made if not for the need to make Shepard appear perfect, then that doesn't reflect badly on her, only on the writers. It just shows how Shepard warps the universe around him almost regardless of what he says.
You claim that Grunt is somehow a better person because he accepts Shepard is his battlemaster. Well, he is what he's named for - a grunt. Miranda is not. Why the hell should she accept Shepard as readily? She is loyal to Cerberus, and Shepard may not be.
Adoration of "a living legend" is not in Miranda's personality and I'm quite glad it isn't. I don't have the slightest idea how you come to the conclusion that Miranda should count herself as fortunate just for being in his presence. She knows quite well how much such things can be reputation with no substance. So until she's witnessed what Shepard can do, she remains skeptical.

Miranda's comment about Jack as the fire team leader
What can I say? Miranda makes a few questionable comments on your choices for fire team leader, but her reaction to Jack is totally spot on. Who the hell would select a psychopathic mass murderer as a team leader? While it may make some kind of twisted sense in the situation, it doesn't strike me as the most sane of decisions.
Also remember Miranda is not Shepard's follower, she's his second-in-command. She, if no one else, is supposed to question his decisions if necessary. That she sometimes displays poor judgment in cases where you'd expect her to know better - well, see my comment above about stroking the player's ego and Shepard as a Marty Stu.
As for Shepard being not interested: speak for yourself. My Shepards value Miranda's input. They don't always follow her recommendations, but they value them.

A final comment:
I am not sure of the spirit you wrote your post in. Your frequent attributions of "pathological" "sociopathic", "mediocre", "inept" and "childish" to Miranda make me suspect I have wasted my time answering a very long troll post. But we're starved for discussion so I've given you the benefit of the doubt. For now.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 novembre 2011 - 09:27 .


#21468
Beard_of_Bees

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Regarding Oriana finding out about Miranda's links with Cerberus.

She tracks Shepard down and sends him an email. There are at least rumours flying around that Shepard is working with Cerberus. So someone as smart as Oriana would surely put 2 and 2 together and figure out who Miranda is working for.

And assuming as seems reasonable that she knows, or at very least strongly suspects, it seems she is not overly upset. She talks kindly about Miranda in her email to Shepard, and the correspondence in the SB's files is warm and sisterly.

#21469
Beard_of_Bees

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@jtav: looking forward to reading your fanfic, but I saw spoiler warnings on the first page so I will hold off until ME3 is out.

#21470
Labrev

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Ieldra2 wrote...

@ubermensch007:

The control chip
People misunderstand what that control chip was about. As has already been pointed out, it wasn't meant to make Shepard into a mindless follower. It was meant as a safeguard, in case Shepard comes awake and goes berserk or something. It's quite possible that even had she done it, it would never have been used. So while certainly immoral, the control chip makes perfect sense. As fow how it reflects on Miranda's character, I'd say she wasn't totally confident in the outcome of her experiment with bringing a human back to life. She was careful. TIM chose the greater risk. That's perfectly in character for both of them.
BTW, jtav's fanfic (link on previous page) has a very good interpretation.


Can I ask when and where this was established? Because I went down this road with another fan and established decidedly that it held no water.

Miranda's only concern she voices pre-FP is Shepard compromising what Cerberus stands for and whether he'll be an asset or liability. She expresses no concern over whether or not he's a threat to Cerberus security, at any juncture in the game, what to say of when she was discussing the control chip itself.

Besides which, if Cerberus was so concerned for their security, you think they'd have avoided recruiting Jack and giving her free roam through the ship for being a danger to Cerberus personnel and property. Let's not forget Zaeed "I lost track of how many Cerberus operatives I killed around 50" Massani. Even if you think his loyalty was bought, maybe he is on another contract working as a double-agent.

Sorry, I think the interpretation of the control-chip is perfectly clear, and Miranda would have surely used it starting from Veetor onwards if Shepard didn't oblige him to Cerberus.

#21471
Burneye Is God

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awesome stuff would love it if something simillar ended up in the game!!! obviously miranda may yet still be recruitable who knows?

#21472
Ieldra

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Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
The control chip
People misunderstand what that control chip was about. As has already been pointed out, it wasn't meant to make Shepard into a mindless follower. It was meant as a safeguard, in case Shepard comes awake and goes berserk or something. It's quite possible that even had she done it, it would never have been used. So while certainly immoral, the control chip makes perfect sense. As fow how it reflects on Miranda's character, I'd say she wasn't totally confident in the outcome of her experiment with bringing a human back to life. She was careful. TIM chose the greater risk. That's perfectly in character for both of them.
BTW, jtav's fanfic (link on previous page) has a very good interpretation.


Can I ask when and where this was established? Because I went down this road with another fan and established decidedly that it held no water.

Miranda's only concern she voices pre-FP is Shepard compromising what Cerberus stands for and whether he'll be an asset or liability. She expresses no concern over whether or not he's a threat to Cerberus security, at any juncture in the game, what to say of when she was discussing the control chip itself.


I say that because it makes no sense otherwise. You don't spend four billion credits bringing a man back to life and then make him a puppet who can only follow orders. Shepard is what he is because he can make decisions that affect the galaxy and make people follow him. If you could make those decisions yourself, you wouldn't need Shepard, and if you could make people follow you, you wouldn't need Shepard either. Can you imagine Shepard conditioned like the colonists on Feros still having that "fire that makes people follow him into hell itself"? No way. A slave doesn't make inspiring speeches in the service of his masters. You could prevent Shepard from doing anything against Cerberus' interests with a control chip, but as soon as he realized he was a slave, he would cease to use his inspiring passion in the service of Cerberus. That's something you can't force.

Miranda knows why Shepard is special - she says so in the prologue. And she isn't stupid. Which means that she wouldn't install a control chip as anything but an emergency measure. Because if the chip had been used even once, Shepard's value would've been severely diminished, if not totally negated.

(there is also spoiler material pertaining to this issue. Tell me if you want to know)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 29 novembre 2011 - 01:17 .


#21473
flemm

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Ieldra2 wrote...
And here's to remind everyone that Miranda should not care exclusively about Oriana in ME3. Yes, she's protective of her sister, but it's a damned war for survival. She wouldn't forget the big picture. I would hate it if what she does in ME3 came across as nothing more than a repeat of her ME2 loyalty mission.


Agreed. It's not enough that the ME3 mission happens to incidentally have significance for the bigger picture. Miranda herself has to have some sort of additional goal besides dealing with family matters. It's nice that those get dealt with along the way, but there should be something else to balance that.

#21474
MsSihaKatieKrios

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flemm wrote...
Agreed. It's not enough that the ME3 mission happens to incidentally have significance for the bigger picture. Miranda herself has to have some sort of additional goal besides dealing with family matters. It's nice that those get dealt with along the way, but there should be something else to balance that.


But then again, you shold always get your head screwed on straight before doing anything. Deal with personal issues first, then setlle the other things later. That's completely logical for Miranda.

#21475
jtav

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The trouble is the personal appears to be all she does. It just happens to move the main plot forward but that's incidental to her actual goal.