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[TomY90]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Maybe her eezo nodules tainted her eggs beyond a level where it still can be fertilized, making her unable to conceive?

Iunno man. No matter what, it's still absolutely sh*tty writing. It's almost like BW gave the script to a hormonal 13 year who hates Miranda for no good reason.

yeah but your forgetting Bioware did say the intel in LoTSB might be 'BAD INTEL' so its probable they might have changed that to be not true because people react negatively to what comes through peoples reaction to the intel.

[JosephDucreux]

TomY90 wrote...
yeah but your forgetting Bioware did say the intel in LoTSB might be 'BAD INTEL' so its probable they might have changed that to be not true because people react negatively to what comes through peoples reaction to the intel.

Official retconning: Bioware's new specialty.

[jtav]

The intel did specify a tumor. I've changed her medical history so much that I feel like I have to stick with it. Heh. I wonder if people remember Dr. Gwendolyn Shepard at this point.

Ieldra, I'm trying to cheer up. I never realized how absolutely essential her belief in a higher cause was until it looked like she might not have it.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Ieldra, I'm trying to cheer up. I never realized how absolutely essential her belief in a higher cause was until it looked like she might not have it.

If the leaked script (file 2) is any indication, betrayal of humanity will be a motivation for Miranda taking a certain decisive action in the missing key scene. Which would, as I said, not be enough to make this aspect be sufficiently present in her story arc, but enough to keep her character intact. Also this aspect is a redeeming factor in Miranda's work for Cerberus. If not for that, there wouldn't be an excuse for her to have stayed with them for all that time.  So in that way at least, I'm optimistic they won't let her cause fall under the table altogether. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:21 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
If the leaked script (file 2) is any indication, betrayal of humanity will be a motivation for Miranda taking a certain decisive action in the missing key scene. Which would, as I said, not be enough to make this aspect be sufficiently present in her story arc, but enough to keep her character intact. So in that way at least, I'm optimistic they won't let her cause fall under the table altogether. 

Where the story goes to that point looks ok, though I think the script oversells the "Oriana is everything to me" angle. More than is even really necessary, given that the resulting mission does intersect with some important plot points related to the bigger picture. It would be better if that didn't come across as basically irrelevant to Miranda's motivations.

Anyway, the main point is: what happens next? Because, at that point, really for the first time, Miranda's personal issues have been dealt with definitively, thus freeing her up to focus entirely on her other priorities. And, well, she should have some.

TomY90 wrote...

yeah but your forgetting Bioware did say the intel in LoTSB might be 'BAD INTEL' so its probable they might have changed that to be not true because people react negatively to what comes through peoples reaction to the intel.

I do think they may just drop it as the dumb idea it was in the first place. If so, they should find a way to indicate that the info was false.

Modifié par flemm, 04 décembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
Anyway, the main point is: what happens next? Because, at that point, really for the first time, Miranda's personal issues have been dealt with definitively, thus freeing her up to focus entirely on her other priorities. And, well, she should have some.

Absolutely. I didn't want to imply that was enough for Miranda's story arc. Just enough to keep her intact as the Miranda we like. However, if, after having established she still has her cause, they fail to let her do anything about it (even if offscreen), that doesn't fall back on her character but it's a story design failure. It's the difference between having to disown her and writing rants about her unfinished story. The former would be worse by far. 

[TomY90]

Ieldra2 wrote...

flemm wrote...
Anyway, the main point is: what happens next? Because, at that point, really for the first time, Miranda's personal issues have been dealt with definitively, thus freeing her up to focus entirely on her other priorities. And, well, she should have some.

Absolutely. I didn't want to imply that was enough for Miranda's story arc. Just enough to keep her intact as the Miranda we like. However, if, after having established she still has her cause, they fail to let her do anything about it (even if offscreen), that doesn't fall back on her character but it's a story design failure. It's the difference between having to disown her and writing rants about her unfinished story. The former would be worse by far. 

I agree its always better to finish the story arc than leave the story arc not finished. Look at the sopranos they ended the story arc in a bar with no hint at what happens to them whether they get assassinated or not etc.

I do trust bioware on what they do, the only time I do not trust them is when they change a story to fit in fan clubs demands, such as introducing Garrus and Tali as potential LI and the move of enabling same sex relationships with previous mass effect characters.

It never seems to go well like no real explanation of why they feel like they do about one or another (will have to wait and see on how they do the same sex relationships considering)

I would say see what bioware comes up with them you can criticise or compliment them on there work.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Absolutely. I didn't want to imply that was enough for Miranda's story arc. Just enough to keep her intact as the Miranda we like. However, if, after having established she still has her cause, they fail to let her do anything about it (even if offscreen), that doesn't fall back on her character but it's a story design failure. It's the difference between having to disown her and writing rants about her unfinished story. The former would be worse by far. 

Hmmm, well, I guess I see what you mean, though it's the writing and story design that would be at fault either way, not the character, right?

I guess from a fanfic angle it would be easier to imagine a good continuation to the story, and fill-in-the-blanks, so to speak, in the second scenario than in the first. Still, I don't know. Stopping the father is too closely tied to Miranda's personal issues to really pass as a surrogate for everything else as well.

On the bright side, having re-read what appears to be the final romance dialog, I do think the most plausible interpretation is that Miranda has done something else between her mission and endgame, even if possibly offscreen.

[jtav]

I'm looking forward to the s/s. *spoiler* is my fallback for Matt. But I don't want safe LIs who've been focus tested into oblivion. I want those hard, jagged edges. I want the girl who, frankly, terrifies me.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
I guess from a fanfic angle it would be easier to imagine a good continuation to the story, and fill-in-the-blanks, so to speak, in the second scenario than in the first. Still, I don't know. Stopping the father is too closely tied to Miranda's personal issues to really pass as a surrogate for everything else as well.

Actually, I think it could be tied up in one rather well. If they go this route: Mr Lawson has a technology that can improve humans to be longer-lived, smarter, have more hand/eye-coordination and be in almost perfect health. He kept it for himself, his self-aggrandizement and supremacy ideology instead of using the technology to benefit humanity. Then add what the place where we meet him implies, and the cause for a betrayal of the human species is rather well made, and it would fit perfectly with Miranda's ME2 dialogue where she contrasts Cerberus with her father, saying that unlike him, Cerberus doesn't do things for their selfish reasons.
It depends on the dialogue, of course. This aspect has to come up in a decisive way.

On the bright side, having re-read what appears to be the final romance dialog, I do think the most plausible interpretation is that Miranda has done something else between her mission and endgame, even if possibly offscreen.

Well, I certainly hope that final romance dialogue will be extended somewhat. It's rather bare-bones as it is. But I agree with your interpretation.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:16 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm looking forward to the s/s. *spoiler* is my fallback for Matt.

Not getting you....

But I don't want safe LIs who've been focus tested into oblivion. I want those hard, jagged edges. I want the girl who, frankly, terrifies me.

I am not terrified, but I agree with you here. We have two uncontroversial LIs in Tali and Liara, we don't need another. We need the Miranda who's driven to excel and between that and her enhancements achieves the impossible. In the end, not because she thinks she needs to prove herself, but because she wants it and it's who she is.

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I'm looking forward to the s/s. *spoiler* is my fallback for Matt.

Not getting you....

If I can't have Miranda, I'm looking very hard at one of the s/s options as a replacement for game!Matt.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It depends on the dialogue, of course. This aspect has to come up in a decisive way.

Given the ambiance of the mission, it strikes me as unlikely that the father's technology will be salvageable. The place is talked about as the epicenter of evil in the entire galaxy. Doing a search for *location of Miranda's mission* in the big text file is quite telling in that regard. It's the CB 2.0, basically, but even worse because human beings are running it.

What I do think is likely is that the more philosophical side of things will come up here, i.e. this is not what Miranda had in mind for Cerberus or for humanity. It's even possible that the Collector Base will come up specifically, since it seems that Mr. Lawson has been charged with exploiting some of the tech recuperated there.

Basically, all of this seems to set the stage perfectly for Miranda to move from dealing with her father to dealing with Cerberus as a whole, taking it back from TIM, putting it to work against the Reapers, however the writers want to play it, exactly.

This is where I'm really ambivalent at this point. Either the final version will follow up on this in a satisfying way, in which case, this could end up being the amazing story we all want for Miranda in ME3. Or it won't and it's going to be doubly irritating because it's all laid out there, just waiting to happen.

Modifié par flemm, 04 décembre 2011 - 04:49 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I'm looking forward to the s/s. *spoiler* is my fallback for Matt.

Not getting you....

If I can't have Miranda, I'm looking very hard at one of the s/s options as a replacement for game!Matt.

The amount of people here who play s/s romances never ceases to surprise me. I have one femShepard with Liara, but I feel awkward playing her romance.

Anyway, we need some pictures between all that text, and since I'm almost the only one posting pictures.....

 

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Anyway, we need some pictures between all that text, and since I'm almost the only one posting pictures.....

 *snip*

Hey, that's a really nice one that I can't recall having seen, thanks

[jtav]

Would one last wall of text be welcome? I got enough reader interest to do that epilogue.

[GuitarShredUK]

jtav wrote...

Would one last wall of text be welcome? I got enough reader interest to do that epilogue.

Of course, your latest writing has been great so far 

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Anyway, we need some pictures between all that text, and since I'm almost the only one posting pictures.....

 *snip*

Hey, that's a really nice one that I can't recall having seen, thanks

This is the well-known "Miranda looking at Oriana" scene on Illium, only you don't usually see her in her loyalty outfit there. I modded it.

@jtav:
Of course I'd like to see more of your writing.

[flemm]

@ jtav, yes, please

The stuff you've been posting has been really good!

[jtav]

*prays the technobabble makes sense*

Miranda tossed on a robe and headed to the basement. When she had created Project Prometheus to replace Cerberus, she knew she would have to do things differently. Not merely in the obvious things, but in the small as well. The Illusive Man had committed suicide before they learned what drove him to madness, but Miranda reasoned his near-complete isolation from the species he purported to save had played its part in skewing his perspective. She would have no headquarters at some distant space station. Her work was critical, but it would exist alongside her marriage and her relationship with Oriana.

Having a normal life and running a black ops organization presented certain challenges. Matt had long since retired from the Alliance, but he would always be famous. Allowing anyone but Jacob and Brynn to know exactly who they worked for would have been disastrous. The modified quantum-entanglement device had been her solution. Not only did it allow her to communicate to any of a number of cell leaders, it projected any image she wished to show. Her favorite was a ravishing blonde in a charcoal gray suit. Close enough to the truth that she could use her natural body language, but not so close that anyone would immediately make the connection.

Amanda Linley was one of Prometheus’ rising stars. Brilliant and driven with just enough ethics to keep from becoming a problem. It was she Miranda had given the task of increasing the percentage of eezo exposures that resulted in biotics and eliminating eezo-caused cancers. In time, every child exposed to element zero in-utero would develop biotics. Long ago, she had promised Matt a world where biotics were an unmitigated good. No one would ever suffer the agonizing pain she had or lose their daughter to a brain tumor. It was a promise Miranda intended to honor.

Linley’s eyes were bright with enthusiasm. "Ma’am, I don't want to get you too excited, but I think we've got something. Neural tissue based subjects with the target genes responded perfectly. Just as powerful as the original, with no sign of cancer, even after we modified it. I think we’re almost implant a fetus."

Miranda smiled. Matt would be thrilled. "Excellent.”

“Thank you, ma'am." Linley sobered. “I’d like to use the Eldfell process to create the initial fetuses. I read over the initial data. For technology that's almost forty years old, it's really quite brilliant. I think we can create children that are hardier and with higher baseline power levels, without the use of drugs and attendant side effects."

“Eldfell?” Miranda fought to keep her voice even. There were times she wished she had destroyed the data when she had the chance, but no knowledge was ever entirely useless. Miranda had assumed Linley wanted the notes on her creation and the surgery they had given her her biotics to better understand why that method had failed. "We're trying to see that the genes for eezo tolerance are passed on. Both of the surviving subjects created using that process are infertile, or soon will be." Time was running out for Oriana, just as it had already run out for her. Miranda would never forgive herself for that particular failure.

"Actually,” Linley said slowly. "I think that problem is fixable. It would require extensive gene therapy, but I think it's doable. I'd like to run tests on the daughters, but I wanted your permission first."

And another passage, just because I like it:

There were compensations. Matt said that he loved her drive to make humanity strong, to push limits until they were shattered into a thousand pieces. Well, he had his passions, too. His blue eyes were intent as he stared at her. Miranda had been stared at him all her life. She had been designed to elicit desire in men and women alike. The hungry glances were something to ignore, take advantage of, or enjoy, depending on the situation. Matt did not simply all ogle her. There was hunger in his gaze, to be sure, blazing steadily like a fire behind a grate, but that was never all that there was. He looked at her as if she was the key to some new world. As if she had the power to bring forth all the glory and grandeur the galaxy had to offer. He didn't treat her as merely a collection of skills to be used, but he didn't demand that she hide her gifts and become like everyone else. And he would be there to capture her both as she changed the world and as she lived in it.

He was an alchemist, transforming oil paint or charcoal into creations that leapt from the page or canvas with a vitality all their own. His subjects were stripped down to their purest essences and reborn in a world that didn't demand that they be less than they were. Perhaps that was why this wonderful, improbable relationship worked despite everything. They both saw the world as it was and as it ought to be, but also saw no reason it couldn't be transformed from one to the other.

Modifié par jtav, 04 décembre 2011 - 09:45 .

[Ieldra]

Beautiful, jtav. Yet again, something I would love to see in ME3's epilogues. I'm in a hurry, so it's just this note of appreciation for now.

[enayasoul]

You've written a nice story for your character Matt and Miranda. I smiled when you added marriage to the mix. Something I hope my character Jon Shepard gets to have with Miranda in ME3 or in Epilogue at least... "Waiting for a girl like you" by Foreigner pretty much sums up some of my maleshep, Jon's feelings for Miranda. :-)

[jtav]

I don't mind marriage as an option as long as its an option. Marriage is the right choice for Matt, but not the right choice for every Shepard. For the same reason, children shouldn't be forced on a player. Even Matt isn't going to be changing diapers anytime soon.

[flemm]

Re: marriage, I'm certainly cool with it being an option (I'd probably take that option in at least one playthrough). Overall, though, I feel like future domestic plans are an easy thing to leave up to the player's imagination. So, as long as there's a possible happy ending to the romance, where, after the whole conflict is over, the player can envision things like marriage and kids realistically happening, then I think that's probably ok.

Modifié par flemm, 05 décembre 2011 - 01:03 .

[jtav]

That's my feeling. A general "we're happy and planning to stay together" is probably as far as the game should go, along with sketching Miranda's non-family goals. And she should have some.