82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unfortunately, that ship appears to have sailed. I'll rephrase it like this: if Miranda's story arc isn't freaking awesome then Bioware has some serious explaining to do.

There'll be some explaining to do either way, tbh, as there's really no reason why Miranda shouldn't join up for part of the game regardless (contrived reasons for that not happening aside). However, the story arc is certainly top priority as far as I'm concerned as well.

Given the way things are set up, though, she's either going to have to be there for at least another mission, or a huge chunk of her story is going to happen offscreen.

Modifié par flemm, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:45 .

[Ieldra]

I'm in the mood to leave this here....

[jtav]

Shep, Miranda? You two crazy kids are getting a happy ending no matter what I have to do.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Who are you and what have you done with jtav, our resident pessimist with a penchant for misery?!

[jtav]

I'm fairly pessimistic about the actual game, but ME3 can't affect Matt's happy ending any more than I can affect ME3. I love happy endings. I read romances, for God's sake. But that happy ending has to be earned.

[enayasoul]

Well, since we are posting our love birds... here's mine.    

There is a guy at work that almost looks like him.  Skinny, bald, with the same facial hair but unfortunately married. 

Modifié par enayasoul, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:51 .

[Melra]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Zeelx wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

CerberusWarrior wrote...

If she is not on the team Bioware has some freaking explaing to do because every LI from ME 1 is on the squad in 3

To be fair, no exclusive ME2 squadmates LI is on the team either. At least they didn't troll Miranda's fanbase as they did with Jacob.

Anyone who thought their Jacob romance was going to mean anything, DESERVES to be trolled.

Sod off, they deserve a lot more than you ever will.

Calm down, friendly fire. He ain't trollin' us, he's trollin' our (everyone's, actually) worst enemy.

Thank you for your community service Zeel.

There's no friendly fire, I shoot everyone I don't approve of . There's nothing wrong with people who romanced Jacob. Each for their own.

[MisterJB]

[Dr. Doctor]

The Jacob romance isn't bad, while there are some cheesy lines most of the issue stems from Shepard's voice acting. Of course Casey did mention that if games can stir emotions in players, why are jealousy and rejection off the table?

Right now my plan is go through ME3 with one of my other Shepards to see what happens, and then playing through with Bucky, my Winter Soldier inspired Shepard.

[flemm]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
The Jacob romance isn't bad, while there are some cheesy lines most of the issue stems from Shepard's voice acting. Of course Casey did mention that if games can stir emotions in players, why are jealousy and rejection off the table?

Well, it's an interesting question, but I'd say there are a couple of reasons why that couldn't be too common in a game like this. One is that these games are mostly about fantasy fulfillment in one way or another, whereas nobody really fantasizes about being rejected or made to feel inadequate. This isn't limited to the romance parts of the story. It's the same reason you don't go around hearing about what a loser the player character is. Instead it's "you are an artist in battle" and so on. LoL.

Imagine a situation where, if you play the game on casual mode, the NPCs talk about how much you suck... :happy:

That's basically what we're talking about here, except there would be no way out of it.

The player is encouraged to identify with the lead character, so, creating a situation where that character gets dumped or rejected a lot isn't really going to lead to successful game design. This is a big difference from a movie or tv series, where the viewer isn't self-inserting to the same degree. You might be upset on behalf of character X if character Y rejects him/her, but you're not likely to feel personally rejected.

And then you have the whole "it's your story" consideration. If the player is automatically rejected or dissed or whatever, then that makes the player feel powerless, when the whole point is to make the player feel influential and powerful. You could offer the player the choice to be rejected, I guess, for story-telling purposes, but how popular would that be?

If they did it with Jake it would blatantly be because they felt they could get away with it in his case, so, that's pretty uncool. At the very least they could just do, "I love you, but I can't come with you, my place is here, you need to live your life, etc."

Modifié par flemm, 06 décembre 2011 - 05:21 .

[naledgeborn]

MisterJB wrote...

I'd lik to recomend JB here as the official Miranda thread wallpaper designator. I'm putting this one up when I get home.

Remember JB, with great power comes great responsibility. 

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...



Shep, Miranda? You two crazy kids are getting a happy ending no matter what I have to do.

ROFL. Crazy kids? Funny phrasing, but somehow appropriate. 

@MisterJB:
That's a very nice one. I've seen it before I think, but do you know where it is from?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 décembre 2011 - 06:42 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@MisterJB:
That's a very nice one. I've seen it before I think, but do you know where it is from?

It's definitely been posted around here before, but it's great to see it again

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ROFL. Crazy kids? Funny phrasing, but somehow appropriate. 

Well, there's something teenager-y in the best since about the kiss. They're all duty all the time, and for once they forget that and act on hormones.

[MisterJB]

naledgeborn wrote...
I'd lik to recomend JB here as the official Miranda thread wallpaper designator. I'm putting this one up when I get home.
Remember JB, with great power comes great responsibility. 

Alright but I must warn you, I go mad with even the tiniest hint of power.

Ieldra2 wrote...
@MisterJB:
That's a very nice one. I've seen it before I think, but do you know where it is from?

http://k-laine.devia...llery/#/d4g4vmo

[ubermensch007]

flemm wrote... If Shepard is acting purely as a CO, then s/he's doing a poor job of it.Arguably that's true either way in the default options, which is what the persuade options are for (Shepard can only
get a truly "good" outcome if s/he has enough charisma, leadership, whatever).

I'm going to have to disagree here.I have come to see that (perhaps) the best outcome that Shepard can get, the only way that he can get the girls to squash their beef; is by picking a side.For if you notice when Shep uses either the Paragon - This is a distraction or Renegade - This ends now option: The girls still wish to tear each other
apart.And the way the camera focuses intensily on Jack in particular when she says:

"She'll survive... I'll make sure of it.And then, I'll tear her apart myself.

Was really quite ominus.And Renegade Shepard really doesn't help the
situation by saying,

Shepard: My opinion is the one that matters. You two keep a
deck apart at all times.

Miranda: She can't be trusted, Shepard. She'll jeopardize the whole mission.

Shepard: If we survive this, you two can tear each other apart. Until
then, save your hate for the Collectors.

WTF!?  Okay, first of all.By saying this.Shepard makes it clear that he really doesn't give a damn about Miranda or Jack, as long as they complete the Suicide Mission.Secondly, if Miranda is his love interest when he says this to her.I think she would be more inclined to break up with him for saying this to her, rather than siding with Jack.I
mean come on... Whether a friend or lover, your expected to hold your friend back from getting into a fight, not egg them on.

Now Miranda may have convinced herself that Shepard said what he said, b/c he believes that she could take Jack.Well it has been sort of scientifically proven that when one is in love, the judgement and rational centers of the brain are somewhat comprimised.Miranda may be able to crush a (light) mech with her biotics or shoot its head off at a 100 yards But Subject Zero can take out 3 to 5 Heavy Mechs (almost) in the blink of an eye!

Not to mention that Jack has far more combat expierence than Miranda, plus she has been in far more life and death scenarios.And less I forget, she is a biotic specialist.Which TIM, own Dossier claims that she is the most powerful human biotic ever recorded.Where as Miranda's biotics are just, "pretty advanced... for a human." But biotics aren't everything of course.Yet Renegade Shepard comes across really poorly here for another reason.Miranda and Jack both make humanity stronger.To lose either one of them, would be unfortunate.

I see nothing "good" about this outcome.Even in the "This is a distraction" choice. Jack and Miri are still eager to have a Kill Bill like 'Duel to the Death' Post Suicide Mission.

No... It is only by choosing to side with either Jack or Miranda, that their rivalary, fued, blood vendetta, whatever you want to call it: comes to an end.

[naledgeborn]

"I'M SICK OF BIO WARE AND THEIR ANTI MIRANDA BULL--!!!"

Just thought It'd be an accurate representation of our "clique's"  state of mind right now.

[jtav]

I just want all the in-fighting to go away. I have ideas for Liara/Miranda stories and I'd like to write them without feeling like I'm asking for trouble.

[naledgeborn]

I understand you like the character jtav, but given the supersaturation of Liara we're likely to get it's only fair that we scrap for as much lime light as possible. After the dust clears -- Liara will still be a squadmate and Miranda will not....

--Forever the underdog,
Yours truly

[Ieldra]

@naledgeborn:
Definitely not my state of mind at the moment. I remain skeptical of the overall result, but Miranda will likely get the best deal of the ME2-exclusive team members. Admittedly that isn't saying much given her plot potential, and should we get something close to the minimum implementation I still have that epic rant planned, but things could be so much worse. A deliberate "anti-Miranda" stance I cannot see.

@jtav:
I won't give you trouble over them, but I'll stick to your stories in Matt's timeline if you don't mind.

[ubermensch007]

[quote]flemm wrote: It doesn't help that Shepard acts in a cowardly manner around Jack from RM onward, either letting him/herself be intimidated by her, or lying to her, rather standing up to her.[/quote]Eh!?......

Jack: What the hell do you want?

Shepard - (Your welcome)  - I just saved your ass.

Jack: He was already dead. He just didn't know it. Now, what the hell do you want?

Shepard - (I'm Commander Shepard.) My name is Shepard, and I'm here to get you off this ship.

Jack: I'm not going anywhere with you. You're Cerberus.

Shepard - (So what?) Why does it matter if I'm with Cerberus?

Jack: They been on my ass for years. Anytime I get free, they put a huge bounty on me. That's why Warden Kuril figured he'd struck gold when he caught me.

Miranda: She's destroyed Cerberus property and killed Cerberus people. Hence the bounty.

Jack: You die first.

Shepard - (Being my enemy is unhealthy.) I'm offering to be your friend. You don't want to be my enemy.

Grunt: Shepard is good at this. Pay attention.

Jack: You show up in a Cerberus frigate to take me away somewhere. You think I'm stupid?

Shepard - (Yes.) This ship is going down in flames, I've got the only way out. I'm offering to take you with me. And you're arguing.

Miranda: We could just knock her out and take her.

Jack: I'd like to see you try.

Shepard - (Maybe we should.) It might just come to that.

Jack: You'll have to kill me. Look, you want me to come with you, make it worth my while.

Shepard - (What do you want?) Tell me what you're thinking.

Jack: I bet you're ship has lots of Cerberus databases. I want to look at those files. See what Cerberus has got on me. You want me on your team, let me go through those databases.

Shepard - (Yes). I'll give you full access.

Miranda: Shepard, you're not authorized to do that!

Jack: O-o-oh, it upsets the cheerleader -- even better. You better be straight up with me.Shepard nods and Jack says, " So why the hell are we standing here?

Shepard: Move out.

Miranda: Welcome to the Normandy, Jack. I'm Miranda, Shepard's second-in command. On this ship, we follow orders.

Jack: Tell the Cerberus Cheerleader to back off, Shepard. I'm here for our deal.

Shepard (You can wait for your files.) Get settled in and I'll give you access soon.

Jack: Right. Might want to hurry on that. You know the damage I can do inside a frigate?

Miranda: Do I need to put her in the holding cells? Just to be safe?

Jack: Yeah, no thanks, precious. I'll find my own place. Somewhere near the bottom. I don't like through traffic. Don't keep me waiting, Shepard.

Later on...

Shepard: Tell me about you Jack.

Jack: I'm still finding out about me. Thanks for letting me look at these files.

Shepard - (I didn't let you.) "I told you that you could see them later."

Jack: I get impatient. Bust someone out of prison, they'll probablly take what they want.

Shepard - You're pushing it.) Do not violate the integrity of my ship again. You won't like what happens.[/quote]

When Jack goes on to tell Shepard what she plans to do with the Cerberus intel, Shepard can say to her, (I can't let you do that.) "I won't let you go on a killing spree."

And when she suggest to Shepard that he should consider a career change:

Shepard can respond to her by saying, (My mission is to important.) He steps foward towards her and says, " We have to stop the Collectors. I don't have time for piracy."

And for the 'Pieces De Resistence'

[quote]Jack: I got nothing to say. Why don't you go talk to Miranda?

Shepard (I like you angry.)

"What's the matter? Can't take it? Maybe you're losing your edge."

Jack: I've turned people inside out for a hell of a lot less. What are you doing?

Shepard: You're tough when your pissed.Besides, how would you react if I kissed your ass?

Jack: I'd call you a p#ssy and trash your ship when you turned your back. All right, I'll let it slide. Once. You're lucky you already helped me.[/quote]

So I'm failing to see this cowardly, meek and submissive, Shepard with Jack.That you speak of flemm. Its all a matter of how you play the game.

As for whether Shepard was somewhat intimidated by Jack.Hell yes, he was! And I really liked that BioWare did that.Remember how they first met.Shepard sees her take out four Heavy Mechs in a heartbeat. Shepard
undoutedly recalled that it took a genetically engineered super being alongside  two Saviors of the Citadel, no less: to take down just one Heavy Mech (on Freedom's Progress) that annhilated the entire Quarian Assault Team!

Add on the heads up that Yeoman Kelly Chambers gives Commander Shepard, after you recruit Jack.And its perfectly understandable that at first he would be somewhat circumspect and cautious around her.When
Shep flinches, when Jack makes a sudden move, the first time you talk to her on the Normandy.The first time I played the game.I flinched too.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:25 .

[naledgeborn]

Actually my convos w/ Jack looks a lot like ubermensch's. Shep gets off her ass a little after her LM, but my Shep hardly coddles her and is far from cowardly or submissive.

[jtav]

For the moment, I'm planning on sticking with Matt. But I'm increasingly uncomfortable here. Rage is pointless. I'm very upset with Miranda's role, but there's no conspiracy against her. And I hate feeling like a disloyal fan just because I like characters who both are and aren't on the squad.

[ubermensch007]

@naledgeborn:

Amen brother...

@Everyone else: Now a page or two back there was some talk about Shepard and Liara's row in her office on Illium, after she tells Shep that she gave his body to Cerberus.This is one of my favorite moments in the entire game!  Commander Shepard had every right to be upset with Liara for giving his body to an organization that they both knew did all kinds of radical and somewhat heinous research.Thorian Creepers, Rachni and other stuff.They could have turned what remained of Shepard into some sort of Frankeinstein monster... Which is most likely what the Collectors intended to do with Shepard's body

But if you notice what Shep says to Liara.I believe that he was most angered by the fact that Dr. Liara T Soni lied right to his face.(Actually, she turned her back to him, when she lied about hearing about Shepard's return from her "sources") I almost wished here, that BioWare would have remembered a talk that Shep and Ash have, after Liara first joins the team in 2183.They said something like:

Do you think she's being straight with us.Yeah, I don't think that she lies all that often, or is any good at it, at least.In 2185, Shepard should have been able to say to Liara here,"Well... I guess you finally learned how to lie properly."   Because that's what my Shepard was most upset by; the fact that Liara lies to Shepard is far more potentionally damaging to their on - going relationship.Than her gving his body to Cerberus... And another good question would be: Why didn't Operative Miranda Lawson, tell Commander Shepard about Liara's part in his resurrection?

Modifié par ubermensch007, 06 décembre 2011 - 08:41 .

[Ryzaki]

I played paragon and yeah Shep acted like he was intimidated by Jack. Frankly I just HC that he was faking for her benefit.