82210 réponses à ce sujet

[naledgeborn]

feliciano2040 wrote...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm sensing some of you guys let Niket take a mass accelerator round to the gut  !

I didn't, but I hate that interrupt. Shepard's line makes him sound like a monumental vagina.

[jtav]

Is that particular insult rally necessary.

But yes, I let her take the shot. He deserves it, and Miranda's a big girl.

[naledgeborn]

But it does. If you're trying to convince someone not to do something you should... sound convincing. Not try to appeal to their better nature by using playground morality.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:23 .

[jtav]

Modifié par jtav, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:23 .

[CrutchCricket]

I think she should've killed Niket but not in hot-blooded anger. Too many emotions about the whole thing. If she had achieved tranquil fury on the other hand like Garrus killing Sidonis...
Alternatively I would've liked this:

Miranda: Then you're the only loose end. (raises gun)
(Shepard shoots Niket in the head)
Miranda: Why?
Shepard: You're too close on this one. It would've hurt you.

Bah my writing sucks at the moment but basically it was kind of insulting that the merc had to kill him. I would've preferred Shepard do it with the same justification for why he simply stopped her (and perhaps with a better line)

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:23 .

[naledgeborn]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Miranda: Then you're the only loose end. (raises gun)
(Shepard shoots Niket in the head)
Miranda: Why?
Shepard: You're too close on this one. It would've hurt you.

This is good. Don't sell yourself short Crutch. It's a great idea.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:25 .

[jtav]

Crutch, that would be terribly insulting. Too much of "taking on her sin so she doesn't have to." If it's wrong for Miranda to kill, it's also wrong for Shep.

[enayasoul]

It's a tough decision but Miranda cared about Niket, so my Shepard stopped her. I always liked Miranda's line though. "You'll die for that ****!"   I did both to see what happens. She seems more angry or distraught with killing Niket.

Modifié par enayasoul, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:31 .

[CrutchCricket]

I never claimed it was wrong for either of them. I just don't want her to do it impulsively based on her anger. Hence why I gave the contrasting Garrus example. If she had been cool and methodical about it like he had, I'd have no problem. My Shepard lets Garrus take the shot every single time. If someone's betrayed you with the consequence that people you care about die/are in mortal peril, they die. Morality has nothing to do with it.

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

But yes, I let her take the shot. He deserves it, and Miranda's a big girl.

Even if he deserved it, which he didn't, Miranda has no right to kill him, specially when she is so emotional and partially acting out of spite.

CrutchCricket wrote...

I never claimed it was wrong for either of them. I just don't want her to do it impulsively based on her anger. Hence why I gave the contrasting Garrus example. If she had been cool and methodical about it like he had, I'd have no problem. My Shepard lets Garrus take the shot every single time. If someone's betrayed you with the consequence that people you care about die/are in mortal peril, they die. Morality has nothing to do with it.

Crutch ! Y u so crazy as well ?

How exactly is Garrus not doing it out of spite or anger as well ? Being more decisive and more controlled does not mean you're judgement is not being clouded by base emotions.

Besides, how exactly does morality have nothing to do with it ? Killing Sidonis has EVERYTHING to do with morality, you either believe the circumstances he was forced into outweigh his poor judgement, or you don't and you decide he has to die, it's a completely moral issue.

Modifié par feliciano2040, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:39 .

[naledgeborn]

jtav wrote...

Crutch, that would be terribly insulting. Too much of "taking on her sin so she doesn't have to." If it's wrong for Miranda to kill, it's also wrong for Shep.

As a soldier and an operative that's the core of Shepard's job. Sometimes sacrifices are made. Sometimes doing the wrong thing so no one has to and everyone else is kept safe. "These things I do, that others may live."

I think Miranda would intially be pissed off at Shepard. But she'd get over it and understand why he did it (for her). 

Modifié par naledgeborn, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[CrutchCricket]

naledgeborn wrote...
I think Miranda would intially be pissed off at Shepard. But she'd get over it and understand why he did it (for her). 

True. An additional conversation after the mission where she and Shepard have to work this out would also have been acceptable.

[Xilizhra]

NIket is unarmed, easily detained, and not even really committed to doing anything dangerous. There's no reason for him to die other than vengeance, and I consider that utterly invalid.

[CrutchCricket]

Xilizhra wrote...
NIket is unarmed, easily detained, and not even really committed to doing anything dangerous. There's no reason for him to die other than vengeance, and I consider that utterly invalid.

Perhaps you've forgotten the trigger-happy asari merc with a shotgun standing beside him. Not only is he responsible for her being there (thus commited to something dangerous), but said trigger happy merc will prevent his detainment (and I don't just mean she shoots him if Miranda doesn't). Yes the killing will be motivated by vengeance but I'm fine with that. Besides the alternative is indeed him dying for nothing but trigger-happiness. This has no effect on Miranda's motivations but it is worse nonetheless.

[feliciano2040]

Xilizhra wrote...

NIket is unarmed, easily detained, and not even really committed to doing anything dangerous. There's no reason for him to die other than vengeance, and I consider that utterly invalid.

I agree with you.

But in all fairness to the truth, Niket "has to die" because he is the only thing endangering Oriana, as Miranda says, he is the lose end.

It's not a simple issue, but it doesn't mean it merits a simple solution.

[jtav]

He betrayed his oldest friend and is assisting in the kidnapping of adult so she can be returned to a father we know abused one daughter and killed/disposed of others. For money. Oh, yes, he deserves it. I only regret I can't make it slow and painful. Him and Mr. Lawson. I want them to suffer.

[naledgeborn]

Xilizhra wrote...

NIket is unarmed, easily detained, and not even really committed to doing anything dangerous. There's no reason for him to die other than vengeance, and I consider that utterly invalid.

Funny thing about how betrayal works; you really don't stop and think about... anything. You just pick a target and start firing. Doubt anyone would act drastically different from Miranda were they in her shoes. In fact a lot of people wouldn't even bother with "Why?", they'd just start firing. 

[medicine]

Xilizhra wrote...

NIket is unarmed, easily detained, and not even really committed to doing anything dangerous. There's no reason for him to die other than vengeance, and I consider that utterly invalid.

Oh yes, it is.
Niket knows too much. You can't trust him, since it didn't actually work last time. He might've another "change of heart" in credits, and there's too much at stake.

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

He betrayed his oldest friend and is assisting in the kidnapping of adult so she can be returned to a father we know abused one daughter and killed/disposed of others. For money. Oh, yes, he deserves it. I only regret I can't make it slow and painful. Him and Mr. Lawson. I want them to suffer.

Good thing you're not in law enforcement then, unless you are a Blue Suns merc ! Then it all would make sense  !

Also, remember that Miranda kidnapped Oriana just as well, and she also betrayed Niket's trust when she didn't tell him, she may have thought she had good reasons, but so did Niket. That said, rational people don't kill others simply by being guilty of misjudgement. 

medicine wrote...

Niket knows too much. You can't trust him, since it didn't actually work last time. He might've another "change of heart" in credits, and there's too much at stake.

I could say otherwise and say he won't put Oriana in danger, as he does before he dies, I would be just as right as you do.

Love some people here, "can't trust this guy ? BANG !"  !

Modifié par feliciano2040, 08 décembre 2011 - 04:56 .

[Xilizhra]

Perhaps you've forgotten the trigger-happy asari merc with a shotgun standing beside him. Not only is he responsible for her being there (thus commited to something dangerous), but said trigger happy merc will prevent his detainment (and I don't just mean she shoots him if Miranda doesn't). Yes the killing will be motivated by vengeance but I'm fine with that. Besides the alternative is indeed him dying for nothing but trigger-happiness. This has no effect on Miranda's motivations but it is worse nonetheless.

It certainly doesn't matter to Niket, and I believe Miranda's not killing him will be better in the long run. Besides, we don't know that Enyala would just shoot him.

He betrayed his oldest friend and is assisting in the kidnapping of adult so she can be returned to a father we know abused one daughter and killed/disposed of others. For money. Oh, yes, he deserves it. I only regret I can't make it slow and painful. Him and Mr. Lawson. I want them to suffer.

Also, because he thinks that Miranda is at fault for kidnapping Oriana to begin with; it doesn't sound like Niket was privy to a lot of the "abuse" information, as it was never brought up in their conversation. In any case, no one "deserves" to die.

Funny thing about how betrayal works; you really don't stop and think about... anything. You just pick a target and start firing. Doubt anyone would act drastically different from Miranda were they in her shoes. In fact a lot of people wouldn't even bother with "Why?", they'd just start firing.

Hm, Wrex on Virmire? Not to mention probable incidents occurring in ME3. But it doesn't matter because it's Shepard's call right now, not Miranda's, and Shepard doesn't have your supposed betrayal fog.

Oh yes, it is.
Niket knows too much. You can't trust him, since it didn't actually work last time. He might've another "change of heart" in credits, and there's too much at stake.

Not if he doesn't know Oriana's new location.

[jtav]

Miranda's kidnapping of Oriana is the exact same situation as the battered wife who takes the kids so the husband can't get to them. Also, Oriana is an adult. Her father would no longer have custody anyway.

[naledgeborn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hm, Wrex on Virmire? Not to mention probable incidents occurring in ME3. But it doesn't matter because it's Shepard's call right now, not Miranda's, and Shepard doesn't have your supposed betrayal fog.

1) Why do I even bother answering you?

2) Personal Betrayal >>> Betraying "A Cause" (Genophage Cure). And at that point Shepard hadn't "betrayed" anyone. Otherwise the conversation with Wrex wouldn't have happened. Way to distort the way things are to suit your argument.

3) And if you paid more attention... like at the top of the page you'd notice that I didn't let her kill him.

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

Miranda's kidnapping of Oriana is the exact same situation as the battered wife who takes the kids so the husband can't get to them. Also, Oriana is an adult. Her father would no longer have custody anyway.

We don't begrudge Miranda's reasons, but Niket does, and with good reason, she didn't tell him about her taking of Oriana, does that mean he deserves to die because he thinks being poor sucks ?

And what are you getting at with Oriana being an adult ? Her father would still want to protect his investment, wether she was a legal adult, or not.

[HK-90210]

Xilizhra wrote...

NIket is unarmed, easily detained, and not even really committed to doing anything dangerous. There's no reason for him to die other than vengeance, and I consider that utterly invalid.

I disagree. He's committed to kidnapping an adult away from the only family she knows, and giving her to a man with ulterior motives for her future. Regardless of what has been done before, that is dangerous for Oriana, yes? He isn't thinking about what's best for Oriana, like Miranda is. He just wants to get back at Miranda for her not trusting him(also for the money, which is the main reason most of my Shepards let Miranda cap his ass).

Killing him is the practical move. Even if he told Miranda's father what he knew(that Oriana was once on Ilium, who her foster parents were, what ship they took to leave, etc), that's more than enough info for Miranda's father to track Oriana down. Like Miranda says, Niket is a loose end. And when it comes to Oriana's safety, she can't afford that. So Niket has to die.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 08 décembre 2011 - 05:14 .

[naledgeborn]

She's not an "investment". Clone or not Oriana is a living breathing human being with rights. Because Mr. Lawson spent money tinkering with her DNA doesn't mean he "owns" her.