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[Ryzaki]

medicine wrote...
Not sure why he didn't. Maybe Cerberus was the issue. 
You knowm only "suspicious" doesn't provoke immidiete betrayal, just questions. And he didn't tried to contact her. Why, oh why Niket?

Doubt Cerberus was the issue. I don't see why it would be.

No it doesn't. And why oh why didn't Miranda trust him enough to tell him she took Oriana (remember no other information needs to be given)? As far as I'm concerned they were both distrusting in this scenario. It's like they *wanted* to trust each other but when push came to shove neither gave enough.

Him not contacting her however makes sense if he no longer trusts her. She could refuse to answer and just move Oriana without his help. He doesn't risk it.

They didn't trust each other enough which given their backgrounds makes perfect sense. Still pretty sad though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:10 .

[medicine]

Ryzaki wrote...

medicine wrote...
Not sure why he didn't. Maybe Cerberus was the issue. 
You knowm only "suspicious" doesn't provoke immidiete betrayal, just questions. And he didn't tried to contact her. Why, oh why Niket?

Doubt Cerberus was the issue. I don't see why it would be.

No it doesn't. And why oh why didn't Miranda trust him enough to tell him she took Oriana (remember no other information needs to be given)? As far as I'm concerned they were both distrusting in this scenario. It's like they *wanted* to trust each other but when push came to shove neither gave enough.

Him not contacting her however makes sense if he no longer trusts her. She could refuse to answer and just move Oriana without his help. He doesn't risk it.

The Cerberus, and being broke is just my wild theorizing, don't take it too seriously (I don't).

It's not his buisness. He doesn't risk anything. He chose to get involved, because "she no longer trusts him". And then he got offered credits.
He should make one attempt, at least one, to confirm she won't be answering any questions- not jump to conclusions. It's like he didn't cared for explanation.

It's more senseless then sad. 
Miranda:*silence*
Niket:*hears about kidnapping* *goes straight to Lawson*

Modifié par medicine, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:21 .

[Ryzaki]

medicine wrote...
The Cerberus, and being broke is just my wild theorizing, don't take it that seriously (I don't).

It's not his buisness. He doesn't risk anything. He choose to get involved out of spite. Becouse "she no longer trusts him". And then he got offered credits.
He should make one attempt, at least one, to confirm she won't be answering any questions- not jump to conclusions. It's like he didn't cared for explanation.

Ah.

It's not his business but that attempt could ruin his chance to get Oriana back to her father. It's understandable he does not risk it. Just like it's understandable that Miranda doesn't  bother giving him a heads up for more than 16 years. Doesn't mean either option was particularly intelligent.

[medicine]

Ryzaki wrote...

medicine wrote...
The Cerberus, and being broke is just my wild theorizing, don't take it that seriously (I don't).

It's not his buisness. He doesn't risk anything. He choose to get involved out of spite. Becouse "she no longer trusts him". And then he got offered credits.
He should make one attempt, at least one, to confirm she won't be answering any questions- not jump to conclusions. It's like he didn't cared for explanation.

Ah.

It's not his business but that attempt could ruin his chance to get Oriana back to her father. It's understandable he does not risk it. Just like it's understandable that Miranda doesn't  bother giving him a heads up for more than 16 years. Doesn't mean either option was particularly intelligent.

Yeah, but today's question is: "why"? Why he cares.
Because of Miranda, telling him to kiss krogan's ass by... not telling him anything   Major insult. 
And where was it stated that she didn't contacted him for 16 years? 

Modifié par medicine, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:29 .

[Ryzaki]

medicine wrote...
Yeah, but today's question is: "why"? Why he cares.
Because of Miranda, telling him to kiss krogan's ass by... not telling him anything   Major insult. 
And where was it stated that she didn't cointacted him for 16 years? 

Don't know. He does.

She didn't trust him. Why should he trust her? 

She stole Oriana as a baby, obviously he didn't know about Oriana so she has been lying to him for several years (and she apparently didn't bother to tell him about joining Cerberus either).

There really wasn't enough trust between them. I don't think they really wanted to try. Which boggles the mind as to why Miranda after several years decides to go "You know Oriana right? I'm the one who took her all those years ago and can you help me relocate her?" like everything's fine. (I'm sure it was far more subtle but if she didn't bother to explain it couldn't have been much different).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[HK-90210]

medicine wrote...
Yeah, but today's question is: "why"? Why he cares.
Because of Miranda, telling him to kiss krogan's ass by... not telling him anything   Major insult. 
And where was it stated that she didn't contacted with him for 16 years? 

I believe Miranda states that she's still in contact with Niket, since he's the only one she stayed in touch with once she ran to Cerberus. So, not sure where that's coming from.

Edit: Hey Ryzaki, you can't just change your profile picture while I'm typing a post. That's disorienting!

Double Edit: And don't quote me while I'm editing my posts! Grrrrrrrr.....

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:33 .

[Ryzaki]

CastonFolarus wrote...

medicine wrote...
Yeah, but today's question is: "why"? Why he cares.
Because of Miranda, telling him to kiss krogan's ass by... not telling him anything   Major insult. 
And where was it stated that she didn't contacted with him for 16 years? 

I believe Miranda states that she's still in contact with Niket, since he's the only one she stayed in touch with once she ran to Cerberus. So, not sure where that's coming from.

I said she'd been lying to him for years not not talking to him so I don't know where that came from either.

Edit: 

Edit 2: 

Honestly my POV is this: Niket should've spoken to Miranda instead of running to her father, Miranda should've told Niket about Oriana as soon as Oriana was safe and Miranda was settled, they both should've trusted each other more. The whole incident only happened because they were secretive and weren't honest with one another.

Therefore letting Niket live is giving the two of them the oppportunity to do it right this time. To continue their friendship with honesty instead of secrecy. (My Shep expected her to eventually speak to Niket again after Niket redeemed himself but it was going to take a while for the wounds to heal.) What can I say. He's an optimist.

Sadly Asari jerk ruins it. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:43 .

[feliciano2040]

CastonFolarus wrote...

Of course there are choices, just not better ones, IMO. And there are more reasons to gun Niket than simply out of spite or revenge. Oriana is safer with him dead.

Again, good to know you're not in law enforcement if you're willing to kill people for insufficient reasons.

CastonFolarus wrote...

I trust Miranda's story more than Niket's judgment.

Then you're acting irresponsibly, she can be exaggerating, or even lying.

It's one think to trust someone and think they're telling the truth, it's another to kill someone else because "she said so".

CastonFolarus wrote...

He isn't being shot down out of spite, he is being shot down because that is the safer, more prudent option as far as Oriana's safety, which is Miranda's(and all of my Shepard's) primary concern. The fact that Niket deserves to die only makes that decision easier, as far as I am concerned.

Of course it's not the only reason, but it's there, betrayal is one of the layers surrounding her decision to kill him, even she admits it later and thanks Shepard for not letting her kill him, because she knows she wasn't on her right frame of mind at that moment.

CastonFolarus wrote...

I am not. I am saying that Niket, and only Niket, should die because he was willing to ruin an innocent woman's life by giving her to a man who wanted to control her. That is more than simply "taking the rights of someone else". That's selling them into slavery. And slavers deserve nothing better than death.

Again (again), really glad you're not in law enforcement if you think you can make proper assesments and rationalize away the entire situation by simply "trusting Miranda".

CastonFolarus wrote...

Oriana(an adult), deserved the chance to decide for herself, and Niket didn't give her that chance. I don't see how anyone can know Miranda so well, and be as familiar with what she has gone through as Niket, and not provide that. It proves that he did not give a damn about Oriana.

Don't twist things around, it's her father who didn't give her that chance, it was her father who hired drug dealers and murderers to get back her daughter forcefully.

And, as you chose to ignore, this is partly caused by a misunderstanding, Niket doesn't believe Miranda had it that bad, that's why he believes Oriana would be safer with her dad, he is wrong, but that doesn't give anyone the right to kill him.

I ask you, again, what exactly was stopping Enyala from harming the family and taking Oriana by force ? Think about that for a moment instead of making up excuses and elaborating scenarios that make Niket look like the evil mastermind.

CastonFolarus wrote...

He was making this decision based on spite, greed and poor judgment, not because it was in Oriana's best interests. He knew the consequnces of forcing Oriana to go to her father, and he did it anyway. And for that, yes, I believe he deserves to die.

That's the point, he didn't think it was that bad, which should make you look back at Miranda and concede that there's reasonable doubt to her arguments, you don't kill people out of dissagreements.

[medicine]

Ryzaki wrote...

medicine wrote...
Yeah, but today's question is: "why"? Why he cares.
Because of Miranda, telling him to kiss krogan's ass by... not telling him anything   Major insult. 
And where was it stated that she didn't cointacted him for 16 years? 

Don't know. He does.

She didn't trust him. Why should he trust her? 

She stole Oriana as a baby, obviously he didn't know about Oriana so she has been lying to him for several years (and she apparently didn't bother to tell him about joining Cerberus either).

There really wasn't enough trust between them. I don't think they really wanted to try. Which boggles the mind as to why Miranda after several years decides to go "You know Oriana right? I'm the one who took her all those years ago and can you help me relocate her?" like everything's fine. (I'm sure it was far more subtle but if she didn't bother to explain it couldn't have been much different).

It would help if they talked about it, but I can understand why she didn't want him to know. Dangerous knowledge and... well, ok trust. She thought it won't be safe to trust him, and it really became a case, just because she didn't trust him  So obvious I'm tired. 
It doesn't justify Niket's action. Not being able to make a good judgement isn't an excuse.

And I agree with you POV. The thing that Ms. Lawson need to learn is to place more trust in people - the one that already've been checked. I wonder though, if this knowledge could hurt Nicket in any way, if it was placing him in danger... most likely it wasn't a main reason why she didn't told him.

I said she'd been lying to him for years not not talking to him so I don't know where that came from either.

Probably from my awesome reading comprehension. Sorry for the confusion 

Modifié par medicine, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[100k]

Awww snap!

[HK-90210]

feliciano2040 wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

He was making this decision based on spite, greed and poor judgment, not because it was in Oriana's best interests. He knew the consequnces of forcing Oriana to go to her father, and he did it anyway. And for that, yes, I believe he deserves to die.

That's the point, he didn't think it was that bad, which should make you look back at Miranda and concede that there's reasonable doubt to her arguments, you don't kill people out of dissagreements.

Aha, so your opinion should affect mine, since obviously I'm the one whose opinion of the situation is invalid? I think we've exhausted all avenues of debate and discussion on this particular topic between the two of us.

In the words of the great Eric P. Cartman,

*ahem*:
"Screw you, sir! I'm goin' home."

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 09 décembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[Ryzaki]

medicine wrote...
It would help if they talked about it, but I can understand why she didn't want him to know. Dangerous knowledge and... well , ok trust. She thought it won't be safe to trust him, and it really became a case, just because she didn't trust him  So obvious I'm tired. 
It doesn't justify Niket's action. Not being able to make a good judgement isn't an excuse.

See I understand both of them and as far as I'm concerned they were both in the wrong. If Miranda didn't want him to know she should've kept to that line and not asked for his help because she obviously didn't trust him. (thus the whole I want to trust you but I don't want to actually show any trust) thing. If she does trust him she should've told him the truth a long damn time ago. Her truth did not need to reveal anything her father didn't already know so there was no reason for her not to say it other than distrusting Niket. So yeah my Shep's just shaking his head.

To me it doesn't justify it (like I said I don't see either of them as justified) but it explains it and my Shep can understand it and sympathize with it. So my Shep doesn't kill him. Other Sheps may come to other conclusions.

Ah no problem about the misunderstanding.

Edit: dang you edited right before I posted. But yeah my Shep really isn't too mad at either of them. Just too busy rubbing his temples.

Edit 2: Damn your editing! *shakes fist* I don't think it would've placed him in danger as long as he didn't know Oriana's location (which Miranda withholding that information is perfectly justifiable and I don't see Niket demanding it and if he did demand it give him a fake address to test his loyalty) it's possible Mr. Lawson thought he knew (giving as how Niket mentions him calling him and telling him about what Miranda did) and knew he helped Miranda herself. If that didn't put him in danger I'm not seeing knowing about Oriana adding much to his plate. (after all he doesn't know anything valuable regardless until Miranda asks for his help several years later and by then he probably would've already been loyal to her and telling her father to screw himself whenever he tried to bribe him or would've proven himself disloyal a long time ago and Miranda would've dealt with him).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 décembre 2011 - 12:00 .

[CrutchCricket]

naledgeborn wrote...

So... feelings on a Kasumi like DLC deal for Miranda. Complete with full squad mate status. Yay, nay?

Wait how much like Kasumi DLC? Full squad but no dialog or relationship content?

[HK-90210]

Ryzaki wrote...
Therefore letting Niket live is giving the two of them the oppportunity to do it right this time. To continue their friendship with honesty instead of secrecy. (My Shep expected her to eventually speak to Niket again after Niket redeemed himself but it was going to take a while for the wounds to heal.) What can I say. He's an optimist.

Sadly Asari jerk ruins it. <_<

That's a lot of thought your Shepard puts into the timetable of a simple interupt. Thinks on his feet, doesn't he?

Speaking of interupts though, does anyone not snap the Eclipse merc's neck at the start of Miranda's loyalty mission? Try as I might, I can't find a reason to not do it.

[Ryzaki]

CastonFolarus wrote...
That's a lot of thought your Shepard puts into the timetable of a simple interupt. Thinks on his feet, doesn't he?

Speaking of interupts though, does anyone not snap the Eclipse merc's neck at the start of Miranda's loyalty mission? Try as I might, I can't find a reason to not do it.

nah he was thinking about that on the ride up. That elevator lasts a decent enough time if you talke all the investigate options.

One of my Sheps doesn't but that's because he's the "Wait let's talk this out!" type so he just gets interrupted by Miranda shooting the guy.

[medicine]

My Sheps doesn't care either way and choose whatever let's them sleep at night  Hey, it's not like we have full information, we can only decide if we're fine with killing random dudes, with "traitor" stamp. I meant, if Miranda should kill random dudes, that we know next to nothing about.
Which is another issue - should we interrupt? You can rationalize it in very different ways, and that's why I love this game.

G'night *waves* 

Modifié par medicine, 09 décembre 2011 - 12:12 .

[feliciano2040]

CastonFolarus wrote...

That's a lot of thought your Shepard puts into the timetable of a simple interupt. Thinks on his feet, doesn't he?

Ever read the description for Guardians  ?

Also, nice Eric Cartman image ! I wasn't saying your opinion is invalid, but it's okay by me if you'd rather not discuss anymore, no hard feelings.

CastonFolarus wrote...

Speaking of interupts though, does anyone not snap the Eclipse merc's neck at the start of Miranda's loyalty mission? Try as I might, I can't find a reason to not do it.

First time I triggered that interrupt, a surge of awesome ran through my mind at maniac speeds, that scene is so badass that the only time I didn't push the button I loaded the entire thing again in dissapointment.

[jtav]

I don't, but that's because not taking it makes Miranda look badass.

And I'm proud to present the semi-triumphant return of Portrait. Extra long teaser to celebrate.

"So you can raise the dead now? Because I'm thinking anything else wouldn't cut it."

Miranda knocked on the inside of the open door. "The technology is closer than you think."
She strode toward me with a confident, assured air. Her movements were fluid, even if they were too efficient to be called graceful. Her blue-and-white suit was impeccably tailored, and strands of hair fell artfully in front of her face. There was no sign of the agony that had seized her the night before my surgery. And yet, there was something different about her. She no longer terrified me. If she could suffer pain and exhaustion, then she was as human as I was. An uncannily beautiful, terrifying human who could rat me out to the Alliance anytime she chose, but still human. I could survive that.

"I see you’re looking better." She didn't look at Gwen, but I could feel the icy malice radiating off her. Don't compare me with him she’d said. Well, there was hardly a credit’s worth of difference between Miranda and Robert Eldfell. They were both determined to get their biotic and "advance humanity" by trampling over individual humans. I still trusted her a little bit more than Gwen. She was honest about what she wanted to do to me. We would never be friends, and that meant she could never stab me in the back.

"Define better."

She smiled, and there was something that could almost pass for humor in her eyes. "You don't feel like your head’s been split open with an ax.”

"Just hit with a hammer."

"Then you’re right on schedule for recovery. Your vitals are excellent. The implants are performing within specified parameters. I think it's time for you to be fitted with your amp,”

I stiffened. The first step towards being able to do something with my biotics, the first step toward being whatever it was Miranda wanted me to be. "Now?"

"No time like the present. Won't hurt a bit, I promise."

"Would you like me to come with you?" Gwen’s voice was softer than I ever heard it.

“No.” This time the death glare actually worked, and Gwen took a step backwards. I swung my legs off the edge of the bed and stood. My legs felt like gelatin, and a strange tingling sensation ran up and down my spine, but I was standing and that was something. Miranda watched me carefully, but didn't offer to help. I was grateful. At least she wasn't treating me like an invalid.

We walked down the hall. I took it slow and careful. Better to take my time them look like a drunk weaving down the hall. Miranda must have agreed with me because she didn't rush me and matched my pace as if it were the most natural thing in the world. Orderlies pushed carts while doctors conversed in low tones. "Just like the med center back home,” I muttered.

"You were expecting differently? The pro-Council faction does love to remind us that aliens are people too. They’re right. The asari are people. Brilliant and haughty. Adventurous and arrogant. Just like people. Don't be so shocked that their hospitals are the same as ours.” Miranda smirked. "Of course, feel free to embellish when we get back to Eden Prime. I'm sure lots of your friends will be thrilled to hear of your off-world adventures."

My brain shut down for second. "Back—back to Eden Prime?”

"Of course. One of the reasons I'm training you is so you can stay in your familiar environment. Otherwise, we would have sent you to our Teltin Institute where you can be trained with other biotics. You didn't think we were staying in Nos Astra, did you?"

I haven't thought at all. I’d been so caught up in my rage at finding out what my aunt had done and my fear over the surgery, that the future had slipped my mind. But now it dawned on me. I was going back home to my normal life. With the only family I had left. "You can't send me back with her. You know what she did."

I didn't have to explain who she was. "Yes, Mr. Shepherd, I know what your aunt did.” Her voice was cold, and throbbed with a rage that made my hair stand on end. "If it were in my power, she would be in prison. Alas, we can't always get what we want. Bringing her to justice would mean exposing her, and Robert Eldfell would shut that investigation down faster than you could snap your fingers. And Dr. Shepard is your legal guardian."

"Don’t give me that!” The tingling was stronger now, and it radiated down my spine and across my arms. "If you can drag me here, you can do something about my aunt. I'm not safe with her.” I grabbed her hand, forcing her to face me. Her eyes widened in slight surprise. "You wanted me kept on Eden Prime because you thought it would be easier on me after I lost my parents? Less likely for me to go crazy, right? Well, I will go crazy if I have to share a house with her. Anywhere would be better than home."

Miranda looked down at her hand in mine. It was a soft hand, free of any calluses. She’d probably never done manual labor a day in her life. My dad would have called her soft. "Anywhere?"

"Anywhere." My nails dug into her palm. "I'd rather live with you than her. That ought to tell you something."

[Ryzaki]

medicine wrote...

My Sheps doesn't care either way and choose whatever let's them sleep at night  Hey, it's not like have full information, we can only decide if we're fine with killing random dudes, with "traitor" stamp. I meant, if Miranda should kill random dudes, that we know next to nothing about.
Which is another issue - should we interrupt? You can rationalize it in very different ways, and that's why I love this game.

It's 1:00 am. G'night *waves* 

I take that interrupt with everyone but my "Talk someone down if possible" Shep.

I admit I'm very very tempted even with the above Shep to take that interrupt on Garrus loyalty mission with the batarian working on the gunship. I always LMAO at it. I'm a terrible person.

[feliciano2040]

Ryzaki wrote...

I admit I'm very very tempted even with the above Shep to take that interrupt on Garrus loyalty mission with the batarian working on the gunship. I always LMAO at it. I'm a terrible person.

Don't feel bad, it's not really your fault, that interrupt is RIDICULOUSLY awesome.

[HK-90210]

Ryzaki wrote...

I take that interrupt with everyone but my "Talk someone down if possible" Shep.

I admit I'm very very tempted even with the above Shep to take that interrupt on Garrus loyalty mission with the batarian working on the gunship. I always LMAO at it. I'm a terrible person.

Wow, that's one of the few interupts that a few of my renegade Sheps don't take. Mostly because I find it insane that not one merc heard the guy screaming himself to death. Seriously, how does Shep just get away with that?

[HK-90210]

feliciano2040 wrote...
Ever read the description for Guardians  ?

Also, nice Eric Cartman image ! I wasn't saying your opinion is invalid, but it's okay by me if you'd rather not discuss anymore, no hard feelings.

None at all, my good chum. I love a good debate, but after a point, sometimes it's better to just lay it to rest. Plus you and I were flooding the thread with our point-by point analysis of one another's posts. And I've seen threads die very slow deaths because of that.. Not that this thread is susceptible to that of course, Miranda's connection to the Lazarus Project and all...

And Eric Cartman is king. Respect his authoritah.

Also, what do you mean by Guardians? The 1970 John Christopher novel? The alien race in DC Comics? Jedi Guardians? I'll need a little more info.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 09 décembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[STJebus]

**** 900 pages of Miranda love and she only gets a small part in the story... i can't believe this crap... and the real ****ty part is that its not just miranda its all the ME2 characters that are getting the shaft... and what i think BioWare forgot is that us PS3 users didnt play ME1 so we dont get to see any of the characters we love and know for a long time in ME3... i'm semi raddled

[Mathias]

Oh...my...god...
Has anyone seen this?

Most youtube vids of her sex scene never show this, and honestly i've never said "No" to Miranda, so i've never actually seen this section of the dialogue. She is so sexy when you say no to her lol.

[feliciano2040]

CastonFolarus wrote...

None at all, my good chum. I love a good debate, but after a point, sometimes it's better to just lay it to rest. Plus you and I were flooding the thread with our point-by point analysis of one another's posts. And I've seen threads die very slow deaths because of that.. Not that this thread is susceptible to that of course, Miranda's connection to the Lazarus Project and all...

It's okay, I can't pretend I'm going to change anyone's mind anyways, but I must admit I also love some good debating, specially with one of my favorite Loyalty Missions in the game.

CastonFolarus wrote...

Also, what do you mean by Guardians? The 1970 John Christopher novel? The alien race in DC Comics? Jedi Guardians? I'll need a little more info.

You haven't played as a Sentinel in ME 2 have you  ?

"Guardian: You excel under stress, reducing your recharge time as far..."

Modifié par feliciano2040, 09 décembre 2011 - 01:26 .