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[berserkerblob]

Although it might be fun to watch, i guess Miranda is just too classy for catfights since she is genetically perfect and shepard is supposed to be not the only man/woman in the galaxywho might be interested in her.

[Ieldra]

berserkerblob wrote...
Although it might be fun to watch, i guess Miranda is just too classy for catfights since she is genetically perfect and shepard is supposed to be not the only man/woman in the galaxywho might be interested in her.

LOL.

Just in case you didn't know: genetic engineering has a very limited influence on personality. Miranda is classy, but that's because she's come to be through her upbringing and life experiences. Nobody is classy by birth.

But I do agree. Miranda shouldn't engage in any catfights. She should just stay coolly professional with any rival, even if it's perhaps a little more so than usual, and any banter should be about other disagreements rather than Shepard. 

@Arijharn:
Such things don't massage my ego. It makes me lose respect for the women. I wouldn't want anyone who behaves like that.

Anway, my Shepard won't have that problem. He has no ME1 romance. At least in this game and one other where Ashley is dead, I'll be guaranteed to have no catfights.

[berserkerblob]

I didn't mean that the genetically modification itself effects her classy attitude. Instead of that i was trying to express that her awareness of her intelligence and beauty lead to her conviction that there might be just little competition for her. Thus I don't think that because of her big self-esteem she doesn't need somebody at her side to back up her ego.
I guess that if she notices that Shepard is more interested in another person, she will come over it.

[Melra]

Yeah, if Shepard responded to his ME1 ex's advances, then woman like Miri, would just think he wasn't worth the time in the first place and move on. I remember what she says, if you try to play two romances in ME2. I never had the scene personally, where she (Paragon romance) says, that everyone the ship needs to know that Shepard is hers, if anything the relationship is to continue. Still I thought it was.. rather reasonable. She was calm and collected, imo. If it's something like, that then I'd understand.

But no catfights.

Paragon

Renegade

Edit: I think I'll have to play my current playthrough, without the ''renegade'' kiss. Not sure if it affects the relationship up till ME3, I doubt it, but rather play it safe with this.

Modifié par Melrache, 25 juin 2011 - 11:24 .

[ParadoxAu]

Mind if I ask what "Renegade" Kiss? I'm not sure if I've seen it, I typically choose Paragon options for the Romance. I like it better.

I really wish the Paraphrasing would be better in ME3 though, I avoided some of the Renegade lines because the Paraphrasing put me off, but the actual dialog was quite funny.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 25 juin 2011 - 11:57 .

[Ieldra]

berserkerblob wrote...
I didn't mean that the genetically modification itself effects her classy attitude. Instead of that i was trying to express that her awareness of her intelligence and beauty lead to her conviction that there might be just little competition for her. Thus I don't think that because of her big self-esteem she doesn't need somebody at her side to back up her ego.
I guess that if she notices that Shepard is more interested in another person, she will come over it.

Ah....you might be a little off-track there, too. You might have noticed that Miranda isn't nearly as confident when it comes to emotional matters as she is professionally. Yes, she will act with composure in a romance conflict, but not because she's so confident of herself - I don't think she is in romantic matters - but because she doesn't want to demean herself. Being rejected would hurt her quite a bit, only she wouldn't show it to anyone. She'll get over it, of course, but she won't forget that any time soon.

[MisterJB]

ParadoxAu wrote...

Mind if I ask what "Renegade" Kiss? I'm not sure if I've seen it, I typically choose Paragon options for the Romance. I like it better.

[Ieldra]

ParadoxAu wrote...
Mind if I ask what "Renegade" Kiss? I'm not sure if I've seen it, I typically choose Paragon options for the Romance. I like it better.

I really wish the Paraphrasing would be better in ME3 though, I avoided some of the Renegade lines because the Paraphrasing put me off, but the actual dialog was quite funny.

FF to 2:00

You must select "are you jealous?" in the next conversation after the loyalty mission debriefing, then you get a Renegade option to kiss her. I like the Renegade path through the romance much better than the Paragon. I think there's only one option I don't like in that path. The only regret is that you don't get to say "you give your father too much credit". Sadly, that's mutually exclusive with the kiss.

Edit:
Ninja'd.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 juin 2011 - 12:03 .

[Melra]

I doubt it really matters in the end, but I could be wrong. I just hope it doesn't matter which ''route'' you took. I rather have it same for all, rather than have my renegade choice + paragon choice + renegade+ renegade + paragon to turn into fully paragonish outcome and vice versa.

It would be hard for each choice to twist the relationship in some way, I guess. I personally prefer the kiss over the hug. As well as the ''No promises''.

[ParadoxAu]

Cheers! Thanks.

There's some good dialogue in those scenes like "I'm the one that put you back together remember and I do Damn good work" and "Stop smiling Damn It".

[Ieldra]

I would be extremely surprised if it matters at all which choices you make in the romance conversations, unless you choose options that end it. I think the only thing that will be carried over to ME3 is (a) if you started a romance with her or not, and ( the romance stage at which you ended. That's how ME1 did things, and there's no reason to change it.

@ParadoxAu:
I agree that misleading paraphrases are the worst problem of the dialogue wheel. I have avoided many Renegade options because I didn't want to come across as a jerk, but often I found later they weren't nearly as bad as the paraphrase indicated.

And yes, "stop smiling, damn it" is priceless.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 juin 2011 - 12:14 .

[ParadoxAu]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I do agree that misleading paraphrases are the worst problem of the dialogue wheel. I have avoided many Renegade options because I didn't want to come across as a jerk, but often I found later they weren't nearly as bad as the paraphrase indicated.

Yeah, I did the same. I also chose some options when i tried Renegade shepard in Mass Effect 1, that seemed to fit the character i was going for... but instead the dialogue was quite Supremacist and Xenophobic. It seems to be more common with Renegade lines, but it's still an issue as a whole.

Melrache wrote...
I doubt it really matters in the end, but I could be wrong. I just hope it doesn't matter which ''route'' you took. I rather have it same for all, rather than have my renegade choice + paragon choice + renegade+ renegade + paragon to turn into fully paragonish outcome and vice versa.

It would be hard for each choice to twist the relationship in some way, I guess. I personally
prefer the kiss over the hug. As well as the ''No promises''.

I thought that "No Promises" was the Hug? Perhaps i'm thinking of a different one. I tend to agree with Ieldra2, I don't see them providing consequences for each specific dialogue choice that you made during the Romance.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 25 juin 2011 - 12:24 .

[berserkerblob]

I personally appreciate Miranda and her personality although she isn't my li because of Liara. I hope that there will be some sort of deeper friendship dialogues available.   
I'd really like to see her advancing in her own personal life as some kind of character development .
But as I've already stated before, I don't think that the citadel council is going to promote her to a spectre because of her background at cerberus. Despite that, I really want her to succeed, because she has always had to live to the rules of men with excessive need for power but at two major moments she decided to defend her own will by breaking free.
First she defied/opposed the regime of her egoistic father and then she refused obediance to the illusive man when he commanded to her to save the collectors' base.
She might have advantages because of her genetical "perfection" but besides that she has to suffer under that burden of the high expectations that last on her. She seems not be very popular among subordinates but she still carry on doing her job despite her personal emotions and that prooves the strength of her personality.
I'd like to see her making her career as a freelancer, i.e. as someone who can make decisions on its own.
That's is why I think Miranda deserves something better than a regular job at the alliance fleet.
I guess that being promoted spectre could give her the freedom of choice she deserves, but how can she wipe out the doubts of the council because of her past at cerberus. I guess her strong determination makes her a good choice for a leading position.

[Melra]

ParadoxAu wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I do agree that misleading paraphrases are the worst problem of the dialogue wheel. I have avoided many Renegade options because I didn't want to come across as a jerk, but often I found later they weren't nearly as bad as the paraphrase indicated.

Yeah, I did the same. I also chose some options when i tried Renegade shepard in Mass Effect 1, that seemed to fit the character i was going for... but instead the dialogue was quite Supremacist and Xenophobic. It seems to be more common with Renegade lines, but it's still an issue as a whole.

Melrache wrote...

I doubt it really matters in the end,
but I could be wrong. I just hope it doesn't matter which ''route'' you
took. I rather have it same for all, rather than have my renegade choice
+ paragon choice + renegade+ renegade + paragon to turn into fully
paragonish outcome and vice versa.

It would be hard for each
choice to twist the relationship in some way, I guess. I personally
prefer the kiss over the hug. As well as the ''No promises''.

I thought that "No Promises" was the Hug? Perhaps i'm thinking of a different one. I tend to agree with Ieldra2, I don't see them providing consequences for each specific dialogue choice that you made during the Romance.

I can't honestly remember, I might be wrong, it's been around 6 months since I last played the game. I remembered that the ''You're hard to compliment'' ended in a hug or was it just, that Miri touches Shepard? Meh.

Probably should playthrough it, now that I have time, but even though it's a great game the combat is freaking boring for me.

[Caihn]

ParadoxAu wrote...

Cheers! Thanks.

There's some good dialogue in those scenes like "I'm the one that put you back together remember and I do Damn good work" and "Stop smiling Damn It".

Yes, there are good lines in the renegade romance, but personally I prefer the paragon one because of the lines "The best thing he did was to put you on my squad" and "You give your father too much credit. Yeah, he gave you gifts, but you can be proud of what you've done with them".
I played the renegade path one time to record the kiss for one of my video, but then I reloaded the game and played the paragon path.

Also there is an another thing I like with the paragon path, it's that, the next time you go talk to her, you can say that you care about her, something you can't do if you chose the renegade path.

[Ieldra]

You get the hug after choosing "no promises". Shepard asks "...but if it's not worth it", Miranda replies "It is" -> hug.

@Yannkee:
You can choose "The best thing he did was to put you on my squad" and still get the opportunity for the kiss.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 juin 2011 - 12:36 .

[Caihn]

ParadoxAu wrote...
I thought that "No Promises" was the Hug?

Yes it's the hug :

[ParadoxAu]

Melrache wrote...
Probably should playthrough it, now that I have time, but even though it's a great game the combat is freaking boring for me.

The Combat isn't the best, but for me it's a big step up from Mass Effect 1.

Yannkee wrote...
Yes, there are good lines in the renegade romance, but personally I prefer the paragon one because of the lines "The best thing he did was to put you on my squad" and "You give your father too much credit. Yeah, he gave you gifts, but you can be proud of what you've done with them".
I
played the renegade path one time to record the kiss for one of my
video, but then I reloaded the game and played the paragon path.

Also
there is an another thing I like with the paragon path, it's that, the
next time you go talk to her, you can say that you care about her,
something you can't do if you chose the renegade path.

I agree. I prefer the Paragon path, those lines are beautiful I can't seem to play through the romance without using them.

Yannkee wrote...
Yes it's the hug :

Cheers Mate.

[Ieldra]

...and what I like about the Paragon romance is that you get the scene where Miranda and Shepard face each other in front of the window. IIRC you don't get that in the Renegade scene.

*sigh* such hard choices. Both have their advantages and their less than optimal lines.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 juin 2011 - 12:42 .

[ParadoxAu]

Ieldra2 wrote...

...and what I like about the Paragon romance is that you get the scene where Miranda and Shepard face each other in front of the window. IIRC you don't get that in the Renegade scene.

*sigh* such hard choices. Both have their advantages and their less than optimal lines.

Such is a testament to the Mass Effect Universe, I never really put a great deal of thought in my decisions until the Mass Effect series, and even then i never cared for a particular character until meeting Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 2.

Whilst i did care somewhat for some of the characters in Mass Effect 1, none of them have had the same impact as Ms. Lawson.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 25 juin 2011 - 12:55 .

[berserkerblob]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ah....you might be a little off-track there, too. You might have noticed that Miranda isn't nearly as confident when it comes to emotional matters as she is professionally. Yes, she will act with composure in a romance conflict, but not because she's so confident of herself - I don't think she is in romantic matters - but because she doesn't want to demean herself. Being rejected would hurt her quite a bit, only she wouldn't show it to anyone. She'll get over it, of course, but she won't forget that any time soon.

Very Kind of you to help a moron like me out. Thank You very much.
But yes, actually you're right. In the end Miranda is still a human beeing with human feelings.
Of course she isn't without any struggle with herself because she grew up with the feeling that she is loved and respected only for what she is and do instead of being loved as daughter for who she is and with that imprinting there is just little space for unconditioned trust against strangers to her.
Yes there also hurt feelings, naturally there are, because in fact her supposed perfection essentially limits her personal choices as she is infertile by birth. The role she was put into means basically for her that she never be able to develop her own personal life as she liked to and as every regular woman could do.
In this case her origin may be similar to Grunt's one, but in contrast to him, she was taken one of the fundamental abilities of her gender. How confident would be the male commander shepard if his Pe**s was removed after his birth. 
And of course, as she might feel not beeing a complete woman to her love interest, she lacks confidence in intimate and personal moments. But despite all disadvantages of beeing some sort of clone, she has a strong character as she doesn't let anybody bring her down and decides in her own behalf.
Indeed I think she would come over an answered love, because she always tries to stay focussed on her job and beyond that that would only reinforce her hurt feelings from her childhood when her natural need for love was rejected.

Modifié par berserkerblob, 25 juin 2011 - 01:02 .

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...
@Yannkee:
You can choose "The best thing he did was to put you on my squad" and still get the opportunity for the kiss.

I know, but to me, in that case (because I usually mix the paragon & renegade choices), the And you > You always bring that up > You're hard to compliment choices seem to work better together, and same thing for the You sound unhappy > This again > You're jealous choices.

[naledgeborn]

jtav wrote...

Shepard--anyone--is entirely unworthy of being fought over.

So not true. I'd come close to killing a man if he dishonored my mother or wife. I'd expect my wife to fight over me in an appropriate situation. If people are allowed to fight and die for a cause I don't see why they can't for personal reasons. It happens everyday.

The justification of two women arguing over a man would be dependant on the man and his intent. Same for two men arguing over a woman. Love is a confusing state of mind afterall.

[luzburg]

only like her cause i wach chuck and love that show, shes awesome in combat but im sticking to liara as love intrest

[Ieldra]

berserkerblob wrote...
But yes, actually you're right. In the end Miranda is still a human beeing with human feelings.
Of course she isn't without any struggle with herself because she grew up with the feeling that she is loved and respected only for what she is and do instead of being loved as daughter for who she is and with that imprinting there is just little space for unconditioned trust against strangers to her.
Yes there also hurt feelings, naturally there are, because in fact her supposed perfection essentially limits her personal choices as she is infertile by birth. The role she was put into means basically for her that she never be able to develop her own personal life as she liked to and as every regular woman could do.
In this case her origin may be similar to Grunt's one, but in contrast to him, she was taken one of the fundamental abilities of her gender. How confident would be the male commander shepard if his Pe**s was removed after his birth. 
And of course, as she might feel not beeing a complete woman to her love interest, she lacks confidence in intimate and personal moments. But despite all disadvantages of beeing some sort of clone, she has a strong character as she doesn't let anybody bring her down and decides in her own behalf.
Indeed I think she would come over an answered love, because she always tries to stay focussed on her job and beyond that that would only reinforce her hurt feelings from her childhood when her natural need for love was rejected.

Hmm....I must admit you've lost me here. What are you talking about?

Regarding her infertility: that's not something that will necessarily undermine her self-esteem. I think she'd just feel it as an insult, either by her father if it's intentional, or by fate. Also we have already established that it is extremely unlikely that there is no way around it. Reproductive technology hasn't spoken its last word about it. Your comparison also falls flat since she can still enjoy sex. And any Shepard who dares imply she's not a complete woman because of her infertility plainly doesn't deserve her.

Her genetic improvements do not limit her choices. In fact, they expand them. She can do many more things than other people at a similar age. Also her genetic improvements are not necessarily linked to her infertility.

The reason why she lacks confidence in emotional matters is that she did not get the love and appreciation a child needs from her father. That's all. her genetic engineering has nothing to do with it. The emotional deprivation she experienced makes her unable to accept her gifts as her own and take credit for her achievements on an emotional level. Once she's dealt with the ghost of her father that's still sitting in her mind, the fact she's genetically improved will cease to bother her.