82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Draco Knight 77]

thank you it was cool but it smelled fishy.
Spoiler
<id>308437</id>
<position>2185</position>
<data>Game is unbeatable. All enemies are invisible and Shepard cannot move.</data>

Modifié par Draco Knight 77, 10 décembre 2011 - 10:41 .

[Draco Knight 77]

damn it that was not meant to copy sorry try not to read my last bit of my reply.

[Ieldra]

@Draco Knight 77:
You can edit your post and remove the stuff you don't want in it.

[jtav]

We're not getting this, but you know what I would have liked for Miranda's mission? Mr. Lawson has made himself a target for the Reapers or Cerberus and is willing to throw his considerable fortune behind the war effort if Shepard will help. Teeth-clenched teamwork between father and daughter ensues (whatever theiir differences, both agree the war has to be won). He needles and belittles her at every opportunity, and the player gets a sense of how much a hell it is being his daughter. At the end oof the mission, it comes out he's planning to grow another daughter. Miranda flies into a rage and nearly kills him. From here, the player has a choice. Side with Lawson, which causes Miranda to leave and die offscreen or allow her to kill him and lose his backing.

Pity ME3 isn't that grey.

[Ieldra]

An interesting idea, jtav. But that setup would have caused Paragons to actually lose something. Can't have that. /sarcasm

I would like it even more if Mr.Lawson is a somewhat ambiguous figure, someone who, once he's explained his motivations, you could understand to a certain degree even while seeing that he must be stopped. I don't like black characters.

[Ryzaki]

...Logically speaking what exactly is stopping Miranda and Liara from taking all his resources once he's dead? It's not like stealing them is out of the question.

[jtav]

Here's what I'd do.

Lawson: "You say I made you miserable. Oriana is normal and happy. But look at what you've accomplished. You've raised the dead. And you're the defective one. All your life, my shadow spurred you to prove yourself. Oriana has...had a crush on a boy. Say what you will, but I forced you to become a hero."

[xarthas2]

jtav wrote...

Me too. I don't think I'll like it, given how oversexualized Ash is. I expect more of the same with Miranda.

Well, it's difficult to oversexualize more the original ME2 Miranda. I would love a decent combat armor for Miri, a la Ash.

[flemm]

I'd be open to the idea of a version of Miranda's father where you're left with conflicted views on his ideas and methods, including the possibility that he did, in fact, want the best for Miranda via an extreme form of tough love, in a sense.

Anyway, no surprise that we won't see that (in all likelihood).

xarthas2 wrote...
Well, it's difficult to oversexualize more the original ME2 Miranda.

If anything, possibly somewhat less so in ME3, though probably still plenty sexy/sexualized.

Modifié par flemm, 10 décembre 2011 - 11:35 .

[Draco Knight 77]

farthers day is the worst day of the year for the Shepards crew .

Miranda: her farther stop her from having friends and forced her to do impossible things and almost did it to her sister and then the illusive man who I think she would see him  as a farther like person betrays her.
Thane K: he lost his wife and is dying of a disease and his son hates him.
Wrex: his own farther disagreed with him so he tried to kill his own son and wrex had to kill him.
shepard: if you chooses certain backgrounds shepard could have grown up without a dad or have lost his dad.
Grunt: maybe if he cared that he did not have a farther.

Modifié par Draco Knight 77, 10 décembre 2011 - 11:50 .

[drwells123]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I would like it even more if Mr.Lawson is a
somewhat ambiguous figure, someone who, once he's explained his
motivations, you could understand to a certain degree even while seeing
that he must be stopped. I don't like black characters.

Agree, and I think that's the minimum a writer has to do for an antagonist character to keep the story from being a melodrama. Which is why I'm disappointed that TIM seems to have gone from an antihero, as someone put it a few pages back, to a pure-evil mass murderer.

Draco Knight 77 wrote...

farthers day is the worst day of the year for the Shepards crew .

Miranda: her farther stop her from having friends and forced her to do impossible things and almost did it to her sister and then the illusive man who I think she would see him  as a farther like person betrays her.
Thane K: he lost his wife and is dying of a disease and his son hates him.
Wrex: his own farther disagreed with him so he tried to kill his own son and wrex had to kill him.
shepard: if you chooses certain backgrounds shepard could have grown up without a dad or have lost his dad.
Grunt: maybe if he cared that he did not have a farther.

I think Grunt says something like "Okeer is lucky he was already dead when I woke up. I would not have been merciful."

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I would like it even more if Mr.Lawson is a somewhat ambiguous figure, someone who, once he's explained his motivations, you could understand to a certain degree even while seeing that he must be stopped. I don't like black characters.

There's that "ambiguous" thing again... <_<

But, truthfully I'm more interested in why you don't like "black" characters. I think they can be the most compelling, precisley when they're complete monsters yet you still see merit in their methods or at least their motivations.
Hence why I maintain Mr. Lawson should be like Viktor from the Underworld series when we finally meet him.

[Shepherd10]

jtav wrote...

flemm wrote...


It's also pretty hilarious, from a certain point of view, that after the leak and the whole rollercoaster associated with that, we still have no idea what Miranda's look in ME3 will be.

I think it was Skullheart who orginally predicted we'd have to get to 1000 pages first

They're sticking with their schedule, leak or no. I think we can be confident of a fairly significant and spoiler-y redesign.

Well then, what are we waiting for? Let's get to 1000 pages. Let's keep on typing. lol

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

From here, the player has a choice. Side with Lawson, which causes Miranda to leave and die offscreen or allow her to kill him and lose his backing.

Pity ME3 isn't that grey.

Well, I haven't read the leak, I wouldn't know if ME 3 is or isn't that "gray".

But that decision might be a little crappy for some players because it offers only loss on both ends.

Suppose I like Miranda, but I don't want Mr. Lawson to be killed, shouldn't I have an option to resolve the situation without a violent outcome for anyone ?

[jtav]

That's the entire point. You have to choose. What's important to you? That's how you define a character. I'm sick of having my cake and eating it too.

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

That's the entire point. You have to choose. What's important to you? That's how you define a character. I'm sick of having my cake and eating it too.

So I have to pander to murder because otherwise I might lose my girlfriend ? Not just lose her also, but knowing she'll die ? Why do the choices have to be limited in such a random manner ? The moral issue is still there even if you convince Miranda to let his father live.

Also, you're perfectly ok with that setup because you would kill Mr. Lawson in a heartbeat, that's not a choice at all for some people  !

What about this, say Miranda was in a similar position to Zaeed, and she asked you to leave five innocent people to die because otherwise her father might escape and create another daughter ?

Also, if you save those people, Miranda.........DIES !

It's kinda sucky you know ?

Modifié par feliciano2040, 11 décembre 2011 - 02:17 .

[MisterJB]

What? Five people for Miranda and we get to kill her father?
Please, that's not even a choice.

[Ryzaki]

My only issues is because it suffers from "why can't I just kill him and take his stuff anyway?" syndrome. Between Liara and Miranda it should defintely be possible.

And I'd vastly prefer if the choice was more they had a guns out standoff and Shep could try to convince one of them (whoever he goes to and convinces puts the gun down and Shep ends up having to push them out of the way before the other one can shoot, he gets hit, the other blows the shooter away). That way Shep can have his "WTF?!?" moment.

Or just make it like Morinth/Samara with Shep disarming the one he wants dead while the other blows them away.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 décembre 2011 - 02:25 .

[feliciano2040]

MisterJB wrote...

What? Five people for Miranda and we get to kill her father?
Please, that's not even a choice.

Not saying it wouldn't be a damn good gratifying death-scene  !

But with my canon paragon Shep, it would suck.......BAD.

[jtav]

The reason I framed the choice as I did is because her father is a child abuser--a child murderer--who is so rich he can get away with his crimes. His sins cry out to heaven for vengeance. And your trusted friend/lover wants him dead so he can't repeat it. If there was ever a time when the Spectres' summary execution power was morally justified, this is it. And yet, the rat's useful. His resources could tip the balance of the war and save trillions of lives. So, what's it to be? Do you follow your head or your heart?

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

The reason I framed the choice as I did is because her father is a child abuser--a child murderer--who is so rich he can get away with his crimes. His sins cry out to heaven for vengeance. And your trusted friend/lover wants him dead so he can't repeat it. If there was ever a time when the Spectres' summary execution power was morally justified, this is it. And yet, the rat's useful. His resources could tip the balance of the war and save trillions of lives. So, what's it to be? Do you follow your head or your heart?

It's not a bad decision at all, though with a little tweaking, it would be Miranda's worst nightmare  !

What does she do ? Does she kill the man who has abused her for most of her life ? Or does she let him live for the greater good ?

Modifié par feliciano2040, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:06 .

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Katie Shepard would lie to him and promise to spare him to gain access to all his resources first, then leave him alone with her beloved Miri and a whole lot of torture tools. Including a pair of pliers.

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

That's the entire point. You have to choose. What's important to you? That's how you define a character. I'm sick of having my cake and eating it too.

And I'm sick of this saying. Terrible metaphor, if you have cake, why wouldn't you eat it?

Not too fond of your scenario either, because the choice is arbitrary and obviously contrived. Why does Miranda "leave and die offscreen"? What does that have to do with the choice we made? Not to mention it suffers from the same binary-moral choice bullsh!t all of these "moral-choice system" games do and is implemented soley to **** with the player. I disagree it defines any character at all unless you count "St. Emotional Idealist Sweetheart" or "Adolf the Ruthless Ponce" as definitions (which I do not). And like Ryzaki said, where are the third fourth or even 12th options? Why can't Shepard pretend to side with Lawson, disarm Miranda then torture him into giving up the access codes to his accounts? Or indeed kill Miranda right there and offer to train Lawson's new clone and thus secure his undying loyalty?

I realize you framed it as an ingame mission and the moral-choice system is fundamentally flawed. Thing is it only works in small doses.

[feliciano2040]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I realize you framed it as an ingame mission and the moral-choice system is fundamentally flawed. Thing is it only works in small doses.

Do people just like to complain about absolutely everything ?

Not to be mean or anything, but how many games out there actually introduce great moral dilemmas while also making sure you're having a blast with the gameplay ?

Give the game it's credit where it's due man.

Modifié par feliciano2040, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:11 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

And I'm sick of this saying. Terrible metaphor, if you have cake, why wouldn't you eat it?

Well, I think the idea is... once you eat it, you no longer have it. Originally, I believe it was "eat your cake and have it, too," which makes the meaning clearer.

Modifié par flemm, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:17 .