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[medicine]

Now, if Cerberus is an Aliance rogue cell...
It would be a pretty good plot twist, if we discovered that in ME2 we've worked more or less for the same people that we've worked for in ME1.

And this should be here: http://images2.wikia...sue_4_Cover.jpg
...and on top <_<

Modifié par medicine, 12 décembre 2011 - 03:54 .

[jtav]

The question is: will the ideals espoused by Miranda in ME2 and in that manifesto be allowed to be pursued, or will they have to be thrown out because of Cerberus. Bad people haven't been allowed to have good points in this series.

[feliciano2040]

jtav wrote...

Bad people haven't been allowed to have good points in this series.

The Illusive Man ? Saren  ?

Let's not even get on the theory that the reapers might be saving the galaxy every 50.000 years !

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The question is: will the ideals espoused by Miranda in ME2 and in that manifesto be allowed to be pursued, or will they have to be thrown out because of Cerberus. Bad people haven't been allowed to have good points in this series.

The Illusive Man did his part I think, when he initiated Project Lazarus. Also the original Normandy was at least a Cerberus project and the SR2 completely. Then take EDI. Illegal but proved trustworthy.

The question is not whether or not he had his good points. He had. The question is whether the games will acknowledge that at some point and let us pull the term "human advancement" out of the black pit it has been thrown in by Cerberus.

@feliciano:
I'm not sure if you're joking, but Saren was always a monster. Just speak with Anderson (in ME1) about their joint operation 20 years ago.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[medicine]

*cringes at 'Saren'*
Seriously, never cared for this guy. For the whole game, I wondered what his motivation might be, and when I found out, I thought he was pathetic. TIM's motivation is better, even if it leads to the same outcome (shame, such a wasted potential).

Modifié par medicine, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:19 .

[The Elder King]

medicine wrote...

*cringes at 'Saren'*
Seriously, never cared for this guy. For the whole game, I wondered what his motivation might be, and when I found out, I thought he was pathetic. TIM's motivation is better, even if it leads to the same outcome (shame, such a wasted potential).

Agreed. Though I really don't understand is what Bioware thought when they decided this part of the ME3's plot, with Cerberus allied with the Reapers (though TIM isn't completely sure of this alliance, or so I've understood from the initial part of the game as it is on the script). With Evolution (wrote by Mac Walters) I though that TIM would never decide to form an alliance with the Reapers, and I already had this feelings with ME2. I really don't understand why he decided that, though I didn't read the script about TIM and his motivation (if there's even something about that in the script).
Anyway, I'm disappointed. In my opinion a role similar to Loghain would've been bettter than that.

[feliciano2040]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'm not sure if you're joking, but Saren was always a monster. Just speak with Anderson (in ME1) about their joint operation 20 years ago.

Trust me dude, I've had that conversation plenty of times.

And yeah, Saren is a monster, but you could say the same about Renegade Shepard at several points, that's part of the whole renegade argument: "I am a monster, but I save the galaxy".

Still, I know Saren isn't particularly a good counter-point to what Jtav was talking about, but I couldn't use only TIM 

What about...............Tela Vasir  ? She wasn't like Saren at all, she was dead wrong in what she did, but she wasn't  indoctrinated, nor had she gone rogue.

Modifié par feliciano2040, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:53 .

[Ieldra]

@hhh89:
I don't think TIM has really allied with the Reapers. I think it's more that he's playing for time. He wants to implement his solution to the Reaper threat before Shepard implements his. He may give the Reapers an "acceptable" target once in a while to keep them from paying attention to what he's doing, but that's about the extent of it.

@feliciano:
Must be off now. I'll post my answer later. Tela Vasir is a good example, I'll give you that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:53 .

[CrutchCricket]

I don't know if I'd call pre-ME1 Saren a monster... Bit of a douche sure, but monster? I'd take him over Vasir any day, racist or not. Well that's not true. But I hated Vasir. Everything about her annoyed me.

[feliciano2040]

CrutchCricket wrote...

I don't know if I'd call pre-ME1 Saren a monster... Bit of a douche sure, but monster? I'd take him over Vasir any day, racist or not. Well that's not true. But I hated Vasir. Everything about her annoyed me.

I think five hundred workers choking to death on toxic fumes would disagree with you good sir  !

[medicine]

He isn't allied to them, true. But he thinks he can control them, learn from them - and he doesn't see, that he's only a tool, as was Saren (although he was more aware of it). He's indoctrinated. Heard he was already in ME2 (makes sense, but I can't say for sure, since I didn't read the comic, where he discovers the reaper arifact)

Sure it makes sense - it just ain't that gripping. I've never been a fan of Loghain, but it's a right direction for antagonist - someone, who makes you think twice before you cut him down. Someone who you can even relate to, feel a little sympathy. 

^ Sh*t, that sounds kinda sick, but it makes antagonist a better character, if he makes you think about your actions, what you stand for and/or what you can't take. Or she. Hmm. *strives to find any good female antagonist*

Modifié par medicine, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:08 .

[Labrev]

feliciano2040 wrote...

Trust me dude, I've had that conversation plenty of times.

And yeah, Saren is a monster, but you could say the same about Renegade Shepard at several points, that's part of the whole renegade argument: "I am a monster, but I save the galaxy".

Not only that, but Shepard can point out that what Saren did on that operation with Anderson may have been a valuable distraction in getting the job done (renegade response). Anderson may not have liked it and believed it was just a ploy to deny him Spectre rank (and it probably was) but we don't know whether or not it was necessary to get the job done. Maybe they fail the mission without it.

If the Shadow Broker weren't working with the Collectors, I'd say Tela Vasir was also justified in bombing the Dracon Trade Center.

[CrutchCricket]

feliciano2040 wrote...
I think five hundred workers choking to death on toxic fumes would disagree with you good sir  !

Meh. How many dead at Torfan? Plus 300,000 batarians. I think I've surpassed his kill records. Even without the ruthless path Shepard's done far worse. Want to call him a monster?

[Friera]

Just a question; I was thinking maybe Mirandas father should be a part of ME3 story? He is superwealthy and he makes superbionic daughters. He must have some kind of reason for all this.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

feliciano2040 wrote...
I think five hundred workers choking to death on toxic fumes would disagree with you good sir  !

Meh. How many dead at Torfan? Plus 300,000 batarians. I think I've surpassed his kill records. Even without the ruthless path Shepard's done far worse. Want to call him a monster?

If Shep had killed all those Batarians when there was another way? Yeah sure I'd call Shep a monster or at least a douchebag.

Shep had no choice thanks to Kelson. (or whatever her name is). It's not like he had two days to wait for the relay to explode and didn't bother giving the colony a heads up to GTFO.

If Anderson words are true Saren didn't even bother looking for another choice. He just went in there blowing things up while Anderson was trying to use stealth and then blamed Anderson for said blowing up "oh he blew our cover so I had no other choice." pfft.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2011 - 05:44 .

[jtav]

If you're comfortable with spoilers, join this group. Your question is answered there.

[MisterJB]

feliciano2040 wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

I don't know if I'd call pre-ME1 Saren a monster... Bit of a douche sure, but monster? I'd take him over Vasir any day, racist or not. Well that's not true. But I hated Vasir. Everything about her annoyed me.

I think five hundred workers choking to death on toxic fumes would disagree with you good sir  !

What really extablishes Saren as a complete monster in my mind is not the sabotage of that factory but rather his interrogation of that injured batarian woman. He could have saved her if he wanted after he got the intel he needed. All he had to was press a button and call the doctors back to her room. He just did not care about her in the sligthest.

Unlike Shepard, who destroyed an entire batarian system, and Miranda, willing to leave people behind if that accomplishes the mission, Saren is needlessly cruel. Even Andeson says as much.

[The Elder King]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@hhh89:
I don't think TIM has really allied with the Reapers. I think it's more that he's playing for time. He wants to implement his solution to the Reaper threat before Shepard implements his. He may give the Reapers an "acceptable" target once in a while to keep them from paying attention to what he's doing, but that's about the extent of it.

That's better than what I thought. I only hope they'll not go with the indoctrination solution.

[Dr. Doctor]

CrutchCricket wrote...

feliciano2040 wrote...
I think five hundred workers choking to death on toxic fumes would disagree with you good sir  !

Meh. How many dead at Torfan? Plus 300,000 batarians. I think I've surpassed his kill records. Even without the ruthless path Shepard's done far worse. Want to call him a monster?

My colonist/ruthless Shepard considers blowing up a Batarian system a good day. Plus the Alliance doesn't seem to so much care that the Batarian system got blown up, they care that it could start a war that they don't want to get into. Besides Batarians are filed under slaver, mercenary, pirate scum that no one in the galaxy really seems to like.

[enayasoul]

The batarians are always attacking human colonies in the game or trying to kill the council(me galaxy game reference)

They are vermin just like the vorcha.

[Ieldra]

Friera wrote...
Just a question; I was thinking maybe Mirandas father should be a part of ME3 story? He is superwealthy and he makes superbionic daughters. He must have some kind of reason for all this.

Sadly, I think his reasons will amount to nothing more than a genetic aristocracy supremacism ideology. As for him being a part of ME3, there's information about that in the spoiler group linked by jtav a few posts abovethread.

[ubermensch007]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...
Anyhoo... I have a question for one and all.They say that "opposites attract' and some other stuff  but I was wondering... Which Psychological/Background Profile of Commmander Shepard do you think Operatrive Miranda Lawson would be most attracted too?

Given how 'the mission comes first' she is at times.I sometimes think that Miri would fancy "the Butcher of Torfan Shepard most of all.Their sort of like 'two peas in a pod'. Both ruthless and efficent, stoic and or austere... But then I think that perhaps she would like someone who is very different from her, like my canon Shepard who is a war hero and colonist.His idealism and principle comes first attitude and no nonsense butt kicking.Has its charms...

I think most Shepards would have something to connect to for her and/or earn her respect: Earthborn - the street kid who clawed its way up to become the saviour of the galaxy. Spacer - an intact family. Colonist - an abject lessen why humanity must become more powerful. Ruthless - ruthless pragmatism. War Hero - did a great service for humanity. Sole Survivor - heroic determination. 

If I had to select one origin, it would be Earthborn, both for the "opposites attract" effect and for the respect Shepard's determination and ambition to become more than a street kid would elicit from Miranda, but I'd find it hard to select one preferred background.

My personal preferred background is Earthborn/Sole Survivor. Shepard as a country bumpkin has never appealed to me and I find the Spacer background somewhat boring in spite of its potential. Ruthless is a little *too* ruthless for my taste and War Hero a little *too* classically heroic. I guess it's no wonder my Shepards tend to end up neutral on the Paragon/Renegade scale.

@Ieldra2: Huh! Well, who'd have thunk?! My FemShep is Earthborn/Sole
Survivor (and Infiltrator class.)

I see her being akin to, 'The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo' except in space.She's had a rough time of it, here and there; but she is never a victim.Even though she's achieved much.There is a restlessness to her.She has friends and allies, but true contentment still alludes her.She and Jack are like sisters, and she's drawn towards Morinth.And sometimes wonders if she should 'Embrace Eternity' with her, to see what she's made of, or accept death by assisted suicide.

Krystal Shepard is a fighter.She's tough and emo.But has strong reservations as to whether she can be the kind of hero that so many seem to expect of her.But I digress... This is not a FemShep or Commander Shepard Thread

I find 'Spacer' boring and uninteresting as well.I have two unfinished games with this profile:

- A male who is Spacer/Ruthless and has Sheploo's face.

- And a female who is Spacer/War Hero.

I too find 'Ruthless' to be, unsettling.

I never really thought of my Canon Shepard: Datè Shepard, being a "country bumpkin" on Mindoir though.In my mind's eye, Mindoir has never really been Smallville U.S.A. I always imagine it being a pretty happening place.Not in Berkeinstein or Elysium's league.But up and coming.And as for the 'war hero' bit.Come on now... You know, you could just see Miranda beaming a Shepard: for 'Holding the line' and kicking some major - alien pirate scum ass.

What girl wouldn't get a bit flustered in the presence of such a strong, handsome, confident man.Possesed of such a high intellectual caliber and skill sets.The thing that first made Liara T'Soni take interest in Shepard, was that she was astounded by how much mental fortitude Shepard has.After the Prothean Beacon and Cipher information downloaded into his mind, didn't drive him insane! Ashley sort of even gets jealous about the way Liara talks about Shep.Its funny... Shepard once joked with Liara about her fascination with him, sounding like she wanted to put him on an operating table.And Miranda Lawson, actually ends up having Shepard on such a table.

I guess colonist/war hero strikes me as the best Commander Shepard, because if you think about what Mass Effect is all about: Spacefaring Civilizations.No other Shepard represents such varied aspects of what that is.He has suffered, as many others have suffered.Losing family, friends and material possesions to space pirates.But he has also had
great triumphs.He's the war hero of Elysium.And I think this makes him someone that people can relate to and aspire to be like.

Even when I compare what Hackket, Anderson and Udina say about the different Shepard's in the Prologue in Mass Effect 1.They seem to speak with the most enthusiam, about Colonist/War Hero Commander Shepard...

What makes this Shepard so great to me.Is the dichotomy of tragedy and triumph; in his life.The alchemy here, is just the right mix.Like the 'Goldilocks Zone' for Garden Worlds.Its what makes him so appealing... and fascinating.He fits the mold perfectly: of a great hero and or mythic figure in the making. But to each, his or her own of course.

[AgitatedLemon]

Not sure if this was a posted idea (Not going to dig through 900 pages for 1 post), but since Cerberus in ME3 shows signs of being controlled by the Reapers, I think it would be an awesome idea to have her take control of it at the end, and remake it into a better image. It could still be covert, and people would still be wary of Cerberus, but it wouldn't be "Kicking babies" level of terrorist.

[ubermensch007]

CastonFolarus wrote...

I tried to keep Miranda as in-character as possible, considering I'm writing after the end of a game that hasn't been released yet. But my main focus was getting Hannah Shepard right. So....*nervously looks around* what do you guys think? Good? Adequate? Sucketh?

@CastonFolorus: I really enjoyed reading your short story; and am glad that I had something to do with you deciding to write it.But one line in it, really caught my ire:

"and perform acts of bravery that put me to shame"

Okay, maybe Alan Shepard was being somewhat facetious when he says this; and meant it as nothing more than hyperbolye.But that's not how I read it... Your words here just struck me as the kind of thing some over-zealous fanboy or girl does when writing a FanFic.Trying to make their favorite character look better than the hero and protagonist of
the Canon.

And that just doesn't sit well with me.Commander Shepard fought off, five waves of enemy combatants during the Alpha Relay incident, and had to be taken down by Object Rho itself! In this Bruce Willis/Die Hard like DLC. Shepard went in alone.He manages to single-handedly thrawt a small army of indoctrinated minions.And postpone the Reaper
Invasion.

Exactly what sort of "act of bravery" could Miranda Lawson do; that would ever put Commander Shepard to shame?!

I do like the feel of your story though.I get the sense that Shep and Miri are talking while he's shaving and brushing his teeth in the bathroom, and she's fixing up her hair and makeup: and putting out different dresses to try on...
You can write well... Keep at it.

[ubermensch007]

Dr.Doctor wrote... Shepard: The feeling's mutual. I'll talk to you soon Miri.

@Dr.Doctor:
 
I never... want to hear Commander Shepard call Operative Miranda Lawson, "Miri"



Now we all may call her that from time to time.(No one more so than my "good buddy" MASSEFFECTfanforlife101  ) But if BioWare decides to have the voice actors for 'the first human Spectre' call her that: in game.I might puke...  I just can't see Shep, ever calling her, Miri.

P.S. Forgive me Ieldra2, but I just had to use this pic that you directed towards me; waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on pg. 460 when i brought up Twilight

Modifié par ubermensch007, 13 décembre 2011 - 12:06 .