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[flemm]

Ryzaki wrote...

If you think Jack is bad read romanced Jacob.

You got off lucky.

A Jacob fan who has taken a much closer look at his portion of the leaked script than I seems to think that was a false alarm.

The difficulty with reading the leaked script is that mutliple versions of conversations are jumbled together, causality is extremely difficult to determine, and it's often even difficult to determine who is speaking, with bits and pieces of certain conversations scattered around. So, it's easy to leap to erroneous conclusions.

We've taken a very close look at the Miranda material, and we're still not sure about a bunch of stuff. It's also true that the Miranda material is more blatantly unfinished than other sections of the script.

But anyway, it seems like once every few days there's a new false alarm in the spoiler about what causes what

Modifié par flemm, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:13 .

[Dr. Doctor]

After reading that article two things made me happy. One Yvonne is still voicing Miranda, the other being that Adam Baldwin is reprising the role of Kal'Reegar.

[jtav]

Something to take our mind off criticism, perhaps?

I shouldn’t have cared what Miranda thought. Real critics evaluated the execution of a piece, not the subject. Miranda could no more criticize me for rendering Claire as a passive sufferer than she could me painting daisies instead of petunias. It was a perfectly valid artistic choice. Had I conveyed what I set out to convey? Miranda couldn't answer that. She didn't have the tools, so she criticized what I had drawn instead.

And yet, her words would not leave me. Imagine someone with every physical and intellectual gift Eldfell and Arcian could bestow. Now, add being the daughter of the wealthiest man in the galaxy and all the doors that would open for her. I'd never been around people with money before Miranda showed up, unless you counted Gwen, who didn't exactly flaunt it. But Claire Eldfell had had money. She'd never have to make do with five credit for a whole box of pencils whose colors were too harsh for what she wanted. She’d never have to hope and pray she was good enough for a scholarship. Her family was the sort that hobnobbed with ambassadors and kings.

That was only the beginning of for her privilege. Having every physical and intellectual gift was an exaggeration—no one was that perfect—but it was an exaggeration I could run with. She would be beautiful, but how? Not in the sweet, angelic way designed to arouse only pity that I had first chosen. Claire had been a crippled, suffering princess, but still a princess: the long hoped for heiress to an empire. Her beauty would have been calculated to command, something to bend men and women alike to her will. Eldfell’s dark hair and cold eyes put into a woman's body and made beautiful. She would be strong, tough enough to survive a procedure meant for krogan.

There would be an intellect too, keen and fiercely honed. Lastly, imagine having all that and knowing you could still be locked away if one man decided you weren't making the best possible use of it. Claire would have been cunning. She would have had no other choice. If she didn't learn her father's moods and what did and didn't please him, she would be thrown into a nursing home. And she knew it. My modern princess, locked away in her dungeon. It would have made her old before her time, suspicious and haunted. All that privilege hanging by a gossamer thread. She would learn to manipulate the way other children learned their ABCs, because that was what would maintain her comfort for another day.

Arrogance and terror would be her twin companions. The suffering would still be there, but it would be there as it was for Miranda, part of the whole. That would be a challenge to render, far more than the golden-haired martyr I had first conjured. That Claire had been pathetic. This new Claire would be tragic: the best of humanity slowly succumbing to one man's arrogance and her own determination to escape the fate he planned for her. This Claire would have literally worked herself to death trying to meet his expectations. And she would have been proud and alone to the end, afraid to confide in anyone in case her father smelled weakness.

Perhaps that would please Miranda more. There were bits of her in Claire now, but then they had the pain and the money in common, didn't they?

The image came to me as suddenly as lightning and as sharp as a photograph. Claire Eldfell, in fencer’s gear, mask off. Her shoulders drooped with exhaustion, but her jaw was set with fierce determination. She would get through this lesson even if it killed her. A fencing master stood opposite her, expression unreadable behind his mask. His sword lay on a nearby bench, one hand extended toward the girl, but his head turned toward the third figure in the room. His loyalties were divided between his student and the man paying his fee. He knew he should stop, but he dared not. Robert 'Eldfell stood between and a little behind them, coldly and impassively assessing his daughter’s performance. A study and stubbornness, weakness, and malice.

This was no sketch. Such detail could only be properly shown on canvas.

Matt's coming perilously close to stupidity and I'm not really sure how to fix that.

Modifié par jtav, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:40 .

[Ryzaki]

flemm wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If you think Jack is bad read romanced Jacob.

You got off lucky.

A Jacob fan who has taken a much closer look at his portion of the leaked script than I seems to think that was a false alarm.

The difficulty with reading the leaked script is that mutliple versions of conversations are jumbled together, causality is extremely difficult to determine, and it's often even difficult to determine who is speaking, with bits and pieces of certain conversations scattered around. So, it's easy to leap to erroneous conclusions.

I reread it myself and while it wasn't as bad as it seemed originally I don't think *spoilers below highlight*

] getting autodumped is a good thing. I saw nothing there to support Jacob and Shep reafirrming their relationship and just things about them breaking up.

Kasumi even has a "I'll hate her for you." comment to Shep about Brynn..or whatever her name is.

[nitefyre410]

jtav wrote...

Something to take our mind off criticism, perhaps?

I shouldn’t have cared what Miranda thought. Real critics evaluated the execution of a piece, not the subject. Miranda could no more criticize me for rendering Claire as a passive sufferer than she could me painting daisies instead of petunias. It was a perfectly valid artistic choice. Had I conveyed what I set out to convey? Miranda couldn't answer that. She didn't have the tools, so she criticized what I had drawn instead.

And yet, her words would not leave me. Imagine someone with every physical and intellectual gift Eldfell and Arcian could bestow. Now, add being the daughter of the wealthiest man in the galaxy and all the doors that would open for her. I'd never been around people with money before Miranda showed up, unless you counted Gwen, who didn't exactly flaunt it. But Claire Eldfell had had money. She'd never have to make do with five credit for a whole box of pencils whose colors were too harsh for what she wanted. She’d never have to hope and pray she was good enough for a scholarship. Her family was the sort that hobnobbed with ambassadors and kings.

That was only the beginning of for her privilege. Having every physical and intellectual gift was an exaggeration—no one was that perfect—but it was an exaggeration I could run with. She would be beautiful, but how? Not in the sweet, angelic way designed to arouse only pity that I had first chosen. Claire had been a crippled, suffering princess, but still a princess: the long hoped for heiress to an empire. Her beauty would have been calculated to command, something to bend men and women alike to her will. Eldfell’s dark hair and cold eyes put into a woman's body and made beautiful. She would be strong, tough enough to survive a procedure meant for krogan.

There would be an intellect too, keen and fiercely honed. Lastly, imagine having all that and knowing you could still be locked away if one man decided you weren't making the best possible use of it. Claire would have been cunning. She would have had no other choice. If she didn't learn her father's moods and what did and didn't please him, she would be thrown into a nursing home. And she knew it. My modern princess, locked away in her dungeon. It would have made her old before her time, suspicious and haunted. All that privilege hanging by a gossamer thread. She would learn to manipulate the way other children learned their ABCs, because that was what would maintain her comfort for another day.

Arrogance and terror would be her twin companions. The suffering would still be there, but it would be there as it was for Miranda, part of the whole. That would be a challenge to render, far more than the golden-haired martyr I had first conjured. That Claire had been pathetic. This new Claire would be tragic: the best of humanity slowly succumbing to one man's arrogance and her own determination to escape the fate he planned for her. This Claire would have literally worked herself to death trying to meet his expectations. And she would have been proud and alone to the end, afraid to confide in anyone in case her father smelled weakness.

Perhaps that would please Miranda more. There were bits of her in Claire now, but then they had the pain and the money in common, didn't they?

Matt's coming perilously close to stupidity and I'm not really sure how to fix that.

  


While I enjoyed the read , I'm just a little lost here?  who are Matt and Claire?

[Dr. Doctor]

Matt = Jtav's Shepard

Miranda is Claire Eldfell, in her stories Miranda's father is one of the founders of Eldfell-Ashland Energy.

@ jtav

Considering that for the most part it takes a while for Shepard to put two and two together, it would make sense that he's not picking up on the Miranda-Eldfell connection quite yet.

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:28 .

[android654]

@ Jtav

Do you have a link to the whole series from the beginning? I'd like to read it.

[flemm]

Ryzaki wrote...

I reread it myself and while it wasn't as bad as it seemed originally I don't think *spoilers below highlight*

Well, CastonFolarus has extracted quite a bit of the Jacob dialog from the script in the Jacob spoiler group, and, as is the case everywhere, it's jumbled. But there seems to be a romance scene, somebody says "Kiss me," and "I love you, Shepard," among other things. There is talk about Jacob and *spoiler character*, but also about Shepard and Kaidan in the same dialog.

So, basically, when all is said and done, I don't think the only option will be auto-dump. There will probably be a break-up/stay together option, as with everyone else. At worst, maybe it's auto break-up, but with mutual feelings affirmed, as best-case.

Modifié par flemm, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:30 .

[jtav]

Here you go

And this story is going to be very, very AU come March. I'm sorry for that, but I've grown to like this version of Miranda's background.

[Ryzaki]

flemm wrote...
Well, CastonFolarus has extracted quite a bit of the Jacob dialog from the script in the Jacob spoiler group, and, as is the case everywhere, it's jumbled. But there seems to be a romance scene, somebody says "Kiss me," and "I love you, Shepard," among other things. There is talk about Jacob and *spoiler character*, but also about Shepard and Kaidan in the same dialog.

So, basically, when all is said and done, I don't think the only option will be auto-dump. There's probably a break-up/stay together option, as with everyone else.

Yeah it really is confusing. But there's a romance scene? Mind giving me a link to the group?

I hope so. The whole "Shep can tell Kelly about his/her relationships with everyone except Thane and Jacob." thing was making me arch a brow. Thane makes sense given his...condition but Jacob? 

[desispark]

jtav wrote...

Here you go

And this story is going to be very, very AU come March. I'm sorry for that, but I've grown to like this version of Miranda's background.

Bookmarked....to be read later when I have some time 

[flemm]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah it really is confusing. But there's a romance scene? Mind giving me a link to the group?

I hope so. The whole "Shep can tell Kelly about his/her relationships with everyone except Thane and Jacob." thing was making me arch a brow. Thane makes sense given his...condition but Jacob? 

I'll just put it below in spoiler text. It's really jumbled, even by the standards of the leaked script.

As for Kelly... it's hard to say. Might depend, for example, on exactly when that conversations happens. Or her comments on those two just need to be added.

Spoiler...


You want to talk about this now?
Come on, Shepard. Did you want me to wait forever?
You talked about him, yeah.
No. And I'd rather not.
Yeah. I'm happy. And it's out there for you, too -- when you want it.
Shepard...
I love you, Shepard. Loved you... Dammit.
Ah.. I can't. No.
You bet. Let's get to it.
If one of us dies here today, I want to know that we said all there was to say.
Besides, I'm with someone, too. Do you know Kaidan Alenko?
It is. He's... you know.
Right.
Doing what we do...it's crazy to hope for anything real.
But it seems... maybe you found that without me. Do you love her?
It's not what I wanted you to do. It's what I want you to do.
Remember?
It's just you and me here. No one can see us.
Come on, Jacob...
Because you're happy? You've found the meaning of life?
I understand.
Kiss me, Jacob.


This seems to be a version where Shepard is back with Kaidan, and Jacob is with *spoiler character*, and they are breaking up, but still affirming their feelings for one another. And that's possibly not even best-case, since it seems to assume Shep is back with Kaidan.

It's actually a spoiler thread in the regular Jacob group, sorry:

http://social.biowar...scussion/17950/

So, anyway, I think the initial reaction to the Jacob stuff was probably a false alarm. This has happened a time or two in our discussion about the Miranda spoilers. It's easy to see a piece of the script and assume it's the only outcome, or that something infuriating causes that outcome, when in reality it is probably caused by something else entirely.

Modifié par flemm, 28 décembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[viserion]

@jtav

I absolutely love how you've rendered Miranda. Very compelling - like your Matt. I'm definitely looking forward to the full chapter!

[Dr. Doctor]

Judging from the leak, the big hurdle for the romances in general is going to be the fact that Shepard has a habit of disappearing. With the ME2 romances especially, considering that he got hauled off by the Alliance right near the start of his relationship with an ME2 LI.

I'm sort of expecting to have a conversation early on to establish what's going on in the relationship, where Shepard can either choose to reaffirm his feeling for his LI or choose to end the relationship.

[Ryzaki]

@flemm: edit: read the link. Alright so that's not looking so bad now.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:07 .

[ThomGau]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I'm sort of expecting to have a conversation early on to establish what's going on in the relationship, where Shepard can either choose to reaffirm his feeling for his LI or choose to end the relationship.

That would be quite nice and reassuring to reaffirm  the romance with our LI early on .

[flemm]

Ryzaki wrote...

@flemm: That sounds more to me like Shep trying to cling =/ If that's really all there is I don't see that as a reaffirmation dialogue. At least nothing like any other squaddie gets.Of course the script is incomplete so I'll keep my fingers crossed. I didn't romance Jacob but a few friends did and I don't want them getting screwed over because the devs decided to troll.

It's not. It's a break-up dialog, but one in which Shep has apparently already decided to get back together with Kaidan.

Not that "auto break-up" would be good as the best option, but remember, people were assuming that the inevitable outcome was Jacob dumping Shep, having already cheated on her and knocked up *spoiler character*.
 
So, anyway, we'll see, but  the existence of this dialog really doesn't preclude anything else, especially given that Shep will not always be with Kaidan. It does suggest that the extreme character assassination that was being inferred from the script initially was likely overblown.

Modifié par flemm, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:12 .

[Shepherd10]

Skullheart wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't know in which context this has happened, and honestly don't want to know right now, but BW better provide a good reason to remove the most famous character as a squadmate.

Because she wasn't in ME1 and she isn't a new character. That is why she isn't a squadmate.

And Miranda isn't the most famous character. Maybe Liara or Tali.

She's the most famous ME2 exclusive character. Sounds like someone needs to read between the lines.

[flemm]

Shepherd10 wrote...

She's the most famous ME2 exclusive character. Sounds like someone needs to read between the lines.

"Degree of famousness" is really hard to measure anyway. Beyond Shepard himself, Liara, Tali, Garrus and Miranda are certainly among the best-known and most recognizable of the supporting cast in the little corner of pop culture occupied by Mass Effect.

Modifié par flemm, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:17 .

[goofyomnivore]

I'd add Wrex up there too above Miranda personally.

[naledgeborn]

Wrex is the only character in the franchise to win an award. I'd say he's the "most famous".

[Ryzaki]

flemm wrote...
It's not. It's a break-up dialog, but one in which Shep has apparently already decided to get back together with Kaidan.

Not that "auto break-up" would be good as the best option, but remember, people were assuming that the inevitable outcome was Jacob dumping Shep, having already cheated on her and knocked up *spoiler character*.
 
So, anyway, we'll see, but  the existence of this dialog really doesn't preclude anything else, especially given that Shep will not always be with Kaidan. It does suggest that the extreme character assassination that was being inferred from the script initially was likely overblown.

I eidted. But yes agreeded. Hopefully it was overblown.

[flemm]

strive wrote...

I'd add Wrex up there too above Miranda personally.

I dunno. He's really well-liked by fans of the original game especially, but never really featured prominently in the marketting as Miranda and Liara have been. Past a certain point, I'm not sure it can be quantified. Mordin, for example, was quite critically acclaimed as well.

Ryzaki wrote...

I eidted. But yes agreeded. Hopefully it was overblown.

Yeah, sorry. Anyway, we'll see, but I doubt it will be the utter disaster that was initially feared.

Modifié par flemm, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:25 .

[Dr. Doctor]

I'm not that surprised that Jacob can dump Shepard. Given his track record it seems that he has problems to committing to anything for an extended period of time. The Alliance Corsairs were great...until Jacob decided he didn't like redtape, Cerberus was more his speed...until he saw that it wasn't as exciting and glamourous as he hoped, Shepard was nice...until she gets dragged off by the Alliance and he doesn't really feel like waiting.

[goofyomnivore]

I dunno. He's really well-liked by fans of the original game especially, but never really featured prominently in the marketting as Miranda and Liara have been.

If we're speaking Mass Effect pop culture though. Wrex destroys Miranda in popularity. Marketing Miranda will win due to her being the female lead of Mass Effect 2. However in fanart, blogs, forums, etc Wrex is far more popular and better received imo.