Modifié par CrutchCricket, 06 janvier 2012 - 06:19 .
MisterJB wrote...
I must admit I have no idea what happened in the golden age of comic books but, judging by the name, I would assume that it was actually good?
Anyway, I have read Cerberus' ultimate goal and it is sound. I am also aware of how they got this army, it is horrifying but not over the top.
Bioware just needs to come up with a good reason as to why Cerberus can't still be on our side and I can forgive them for making their commandos the main source of cannon fodder.
Yes but if his character development can concievably leads him to complete monsterdom, that's a valid direction the writers can take. Doesn't mean you have to like it. But as long as it makes sense, there's nothing inherently wrong with it.MisterJB wrote...
But TIM was not previously presented as a monster. He was supossed to encompass the best and worst humanity has to offer. Not that I think he is OOC in ME3, mind you.
If you want a complete monster, look no further than Kai Leng.
MisterJB wrote...
I must admit I have no idea what happened in the golden age of comic books but, judging by the name, I would assume that it was actually good?
Anyway, I have read Cerberus' ultimate goal and it is sound. I am also aware of how they got this army, it is horrifying but not over the top.
.
CrutchCricket wrote...
Yes but if his character development can concievably leads him to complete monsterdom, that's a valid direction the writers can take. Doesn't mean you have to like it. But as long as it makes sense, there's nothing inherently wrong with it.MisterJB wrote...
But TIM was not previously presented as a monster. He was supossed to encompass the best and worst humanity has to offer. Not that I think he is OOC in ME3, mind you.
If you want a complete monster, look no further than Kai Leng.
AgitatedLemon wrote...
I'll admit, I think TIM going from regular guy with problems (Well, about as normal a merc can get) Jack Harper to the Illusive Man as quick as he did really put me off his character.
I mean, he went through quite a bit during the miniseries that detailed his story, but it felt rushed and somewhat over the top.
hhh89 wrote...
AgitatedLemon wrote...
I'll admit, I think TIM going from regular guy with problems (Well, about as normal a merc can get) Jack Harper to the Illusive Man as quick as he did really put me off his character.
I mean, he went through quite a bit during the miniseries that detailed his story, but it felt rushed and somewhat over the top.
Actually, I'm talking about TIM's character development in ME3 (for what I know so far), not in Evolution.
Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 06 janvier 2012 - 06:34 .
AgitatedLemon wrote...
hhh89 wrote...
Actually, I'm talking about TIM's character development in ME3 (for what I know so far), not in Evolution.
Yeah, I WAS talking about Evolution.
CrutchCricket wrote...
*sigh. You know not everything has to be mired in six levels of backstory that try to suggest that just maybe they're not all bad. I'm really coming to despise this view that any straight up unredeemable villain is necessarily "moustache-twirling". Moustache-twirling is a function of a villan's presentation not of their motivations or methods. Granted if the presentation of villain Cerberus is silly, then we're on the same page. But I get the feeling people here keep trying to push everything into a giant gray mix. Thing is if everything's a giant gray mix, that giant gray mix becomes boring real quick. And I personally find complete monsters far more compelling as villains (given the right presentation).
In any case as the game has not come out yet, we don't know the presentation of villain Cerberus thus we cannot make the claim that they are moustache-twirling or any other fun-for-kiddies media-ish.
nitefyre410 wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
*sigh. You know not everything has to be mired in six levels of backstory that try to suggest that just maybe they're not all bad. I'm really coming to despise this view that any straight up unredeemable villain is necessarily "moustache-twirling". Moustache-twirling is a function of a villan's presentation not of their motivations or methods. Granted if the presentation of villain Cerberus is silly, then we're on the same page. But I get the feeling people here keep trying to push everything into a giant gray mix. Thing is if everything's a giant gray mix, that giant gray mix becomes boring real quick. And I personally find complete monsters far more compelling as villains (given the right presentation).
In any case as the game has not come out yet, we don't know the presentation of villain Cerberus thus we cannot make the claim that they are moustache-twirling or any other fun-for-kiddies media-ish.
Which is why I love the Joker - there is no gray area he is just bat **** psycotic crazy and ths just it and it works. I think what bugs me at least and I'm only speaking for myself. Is that Cerberus was presented as this rather moral ambigius ogainization. You know that do complete evil things like Akuze and Pragia but you also know you have one thing absolutely one thing in common.... Wanting to Destory the Reapers. Mass Effect being a game about choices having Cerberus play the role of "How far are you willng to go to win" works Especially you when set the Concuil up as being completely and willfully delusional to threat that is right in front of their face. Even if TIM turns out to be or is complete monster you put the player in a "Deal with the Devil" type of situation. Do they stay trying to convince the Council or do work with the Complete Monster to take down the Omnicdal Manic Eldritch Abominations.
We having the join forces with Reapers just clear out of blue throws people off because it goes against TIM 's Nature. TIM if anything its smart and he sould be smart enough to know not to make the same mistake Saren made.... and its looks like he may be making that very some error in judgement. Still we really wont know till we compare notes on how all this plays out come March 6th.
AgitatedLemon wrote...
nitefyre410 wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
*sigh. You know not everything has to be mired in six levels of backstory that try to suggest that just maybe they're not all bad. I'm really coming to despise this view that any straight up unredeemable villain is necessarily "moustache-twirling". Moustache-twirling is a function of a villan's presentation not of their motivations or methods. Granted if the presentation of villain Cerberus is silly, then we're on the same page. But I get the feeling people here keep trying to push everything into a giant gray mix. Thing is if everything's a giant gray mix, that giant gray mix becomes boring real quick. And I personally find complete monsters far more compelling as villains (given the right presentation).
In any case as the game has not come out yet, we don't know the presentation of villain Cerberus thus we cannot make the claim that they are moustache-twirling or any other fun-for-kiddies media-ish.
Which is why I love the Joker - there is no gray area he is just bat **** psycotic crazy and ths just it and it works. I think what bugs me at least and I'm only speaking for myself. Is that Cerberus was presented as this rather moral ambigius ogainization. You know that do complete evil things like Akuze and Pragia but you also know you have one thing absolutely one thing in common.... Wanting to Destory the Reapers. Mass Effect being a game about choices having Cerberus play the role of "How far are you willng to go to win" works Especially you when set the Concuil up as being completely and willfully delusional to threat that is right in front of their face. Even if TIM turns out to be or is complete monster you put the player in a "Deal with the Devil" type of situation. Do they stay trying to convince the Council or do work with the Complete Monster to take down the Omnicdal Manic Eldritch Abominations.
We having the join forces with Reapers just clear out of blue throws people off because it goes against TIM 's Nature. TIM if anything its smart and he sould be smart enough to know not to make the same mistake Saren made.... and its looks like he may be making that very some error in judgement. Still we really wont know till we compare notes on how all this plays out come March 6th.
To be fair, in Evolution, he and Saren and co. came across a Reaper monolith that indoctrinated and husk-ified a bunch of turians. It almost got TIM too. That could come in a conversation or something, and it would help his character. It would certainly explain his eyes being cybernetic and having the same blue hue as Reaper tech.
AgitatedLemon wrote...
I don't remember TIM's monologue at the end of the comic, so I can't comment on it.
All I know is that his transition from Evolution/ME2 (Where he was decently fleshed out) to Invasion/ME3 (Comic book villain levels of idiocy) is staggering.
AgitatedLemon wrote...
If you're talking about Invasion, it's pretty cool.
Aria is a badass in it, and the Reapers show off a new minion.
I think it either dies or is already killed though.
Modifié par nitefyre410, 06 janvier 2012 - 07:26 .
The Joker is a perfect example, even though he is, ironically a comic book character. And I know there are comics out there that take him darker that what you usually see in the animated series. But just look at his movie portrayals. On the one hand quite cartoonish in the Burton flick. On the other, terrifyingly real in the Nolan version. Presentation. It's what's for dinner.nitefyre410 wrote...
Which is why I love the Joker - there is no gray area he is just bat **** psycotic crazy and ths just it and it works. I think what bugs me at least and I'm only speaking for myself. Is that Cerberus was presented as this rather moral ambigius ogainization. You know that do complete evil things like Akuze and Pragia but you also know you have one thing absolutely one thing in common.... Wanting to Destory the Reapers. Mass Effect being a game about choices having Cerberus play the role of "How far are you willng to go to win" works Especially you when set the Concuil up as being completely and willfully delusional to threat that is right in front of their face. Even if TIM turns out to be or is complete monster you put the player in a "Deal with the Devil" type of situation. Do they stay trying to convince the Council or do work with the Complete Monster to take down the Omnicdal Manic Eldritch Abominations.
We having the join forces with Reapers just clear out of blue throws people off because it goes against TIM 's Nature. TIM if anything its smart and he sould be smart enough to know not to make the same mistake Saren made.... and its looks like he may be making that very some error in judgement. Still we really wont know till we compare notes on how all this plays out come March 6th.
Modifié par flemm, 06 janvier 2012 - 08:14 .
Modifié par Skullheart, 06 janvier 2012 - 08:20 .
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