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[StonedBatman]

dirae wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

That's explained. And she was a les from the start. No changes.

And when did Kaidan say to you that he's not bi? That's right never. So bye bye. And don't even try to lie "ohh it's just about old characters". I saw you idiotic post in another thread, how much you hate they put male-male romance in ME3 (so unsurprising you only mentioned the male-male ones).

Don't you have better things to do than stalk me?

Kaidan has only shown interest in a female Shepard. Now, all of a sudden he likes it up the backside?

No, actually I'll be just as p*ssed if Miranda is rewriten for S/S. That's stupid. A writer shouldn't change who that character is. And for the pasted two games, Kaidan hasn't liked bum fun.

Considering we're talking about one of the most private characters in the Mass Effect series? And I don't think it's "Sudden" that Kaidan might be bi. Remember, Kaidan was originally meant to be a  bi option in ME1. Whole paragraphs between Sbarge and Meer were not only written, but recorded and animated.  Not just a few jotted down ideas, but weeks, if not months of writing, recording and animating (which you can unlock and see with hacks). The same for Ashley. Just less of her conversations with femshep were cut at the last minute.

I'd hate to be someone you know in real life. If you've known someone of upstanding character irl, but learned their sexual tastes weren't what you expected, and that person was forever ruined for you--  well no one's a winner in that scenario.

He was never intended to be bisexual at all. It was only briefly considered. And those lines were recorded because it saved time.

And yeah. Kaidan is forever ruined for me. Gotta say, I'll be disapointed if he turns out to be the new suddenly turned gay guy trying to hit on me. And if Garrus suddenly turns out to be S/S I will rage.

[mineralica]

dirae wrote...

mineralica wrote...

dirae wrote...
<...>
mineralica .... just wow. That whole post is depressing.

I'm a bit lost here. What exactly is linked?

Edit: nevermind, looks like it was epic glitch of firefox.

Yep, sometimes cut and paste adds that for some reason.

Adds strange thread first page of which is apparently in ME general discussion and last - in DA2 general discussion? Oh almighty BSN...

[syllogi]

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[Mmw04014]

dirae wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

That's explained. And she was a les from the start. No changes.

And when did Kaidan say to you that he's not bi? That's right never. So bye bye. And don't even try to lie "ohh it's just about old characters". I saw you idiotic post in another thread, how much you hate they put male-male romance in ME3 (so unsurprising you only mentioned the male-male ones).

Don't you have better things to do than stalk me?

Kaidan has only shown interest in a female Shepard. Now, all of a sudden he likes it up the backside?

No, actually I'll be just as p*ssed if Miranda is rewriten for S/S. That's stupid. A writer shouldn't change who that character is. And for the pasted two games, Kaidan hasn't liked bum fun.

Considering we're talking about one of the most private characters in the Mass Effect series? And I don't think it's "Sudden" that Kaidan might be bi. Remember, Kaidan was originally meant to be a  bi option in ME1. Whole paragraphs between Sbarge and Meer were not only written, but recorded and animated.  Not just a few jotted down ideas, but weeks, if not months of writing, recording and animating (which you can unlock and see with hacks). The same for Ashley. Just less of her conversations with femshep were cut at the last minute.

I'd hate to be someone you know in real life. If you've known someone of upstanding character irl, but learned their sexual tastes weren't what you expected, and that person was forever ruined for you--  well no one's a winner in that scenario.

Not exactly.
Meer only recorded Hale's lines, and vice-versa, to save time and then the higher ups discussed if they wanted to follow through with it. They decided against it. Sbarge never recorded anything, that's why he refers to Shepard as a woman if you do flag a s/s relationship between them.

Anyways, I used to be apprehensive about opening Kaidan up for s/s, if only because I felt that the continuing romance would suffer or be less different than if you just started up a new romance. I still think it's going to be too gender neutral (at least based on the leaks), so that's sad. Other than that, I could care less if he's an s/s option. I just would have preferred it been there from the start.

[jeweledleah]

dirae wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

That's explained. And she was a les from the start. No changes.

And when did Kaidan say to you that he's not bi? That's right never. So bye bye. And don't even try to lie "ohh it's just about old characters". I saw you idiotic post in another thread, how much you hate they put male-male romance in ME3 (so unsurprising you only mentioned the male-male ones).

Don't you have better things to do than stalk me?

Kaidan has only shown interest in a female Shepard. Now, all of a sudden he likes it up the backside?

No, actually I'll be just as p*ssed if Miranda is rewriten for S/S. That's stupid. A writer shouldn't change who that character is. And for the pasted two games, Kaidan hasn't liked bum fun.

Considering we're talking about one of the most private characters in the Mass Effect series? And I don't think it's "Sudden" that Kaidan might be bi. Remember, Kaidan was originally meant to be a  bi option in ME1. Whole paragraphs between Sbarge and Meer were not only written, but recorded and animated.  Not just a few jotted down ideas, but weeks, if not months of writing, recording and animating (which you can unlock and see with hacks). The same for Ashley. Just less of her conversations with femshep were cut at the last minute.

I'd hate to be someone you know in real life. If you've known someone of upstanding character irl, but learned their sexual tastes weren't what you expected, and that person was forever ruined for you--  well no one's a winner in that scenario.

sigh, he was not meant to be bi, they recorded femshep dialogue with Mark meer and they concidered it once the redundant dialogue was done, but discarded the idea, becasue it didn't sound right.  and part of it, I think was dued to the way Eden Prime/Citadel flirting/ medbay scene is set up.  they are very distinctly favorite femshep, so they would litteraly have to add extra scenes (not just romance scene)  and add dialogue to account for that.  same with Ashley.

Kaidan may have been private, but he kept slipping up around femshep, showing his atraction to her.  he also had splashes of anger here and there, that he'd quickly squash, but they were there, not just in romances.  .so while private, he also has hard time hiding his feelings.  I don't know what the news are.  I'll wait and see untill the game comes out to make any judgements.  but the fact that Kadian and Ashley share dialogue... again, at least in intro, doesn't make me hopeful.  its probably going to be copy paste.  there's also something I read in spoilers, no related to Kaidan, that is incredibly contradictory and its just waved away to progress.. the plot. and that only makes me more worried.

meh.  I managed to keep liking Tali very much despite her "character development" in ME2.  I just had to ignore her romance completely, to do that.  I hope I'm not going to end up doing the same with Kaidan.

[Liesel12]

I really don't think that Bioware will change the story of Kaidan in the third act. If they did, then they have to change Ashley. Or everyone for that matter, and make all bi. Seriously, can't there be some characters in a game that are plain straight and just be polite in regards to refusing a s/s interest?

We can't have it all, it's not realistic.

[shepskisaac]

Liesel12 wrote...

Seriously, can't there be some characters in a game that are plain straight

Jacob, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, Thane, Jack ain't enough? And yeah, maybe there's quite alot of bi/lesbian girls, but guys lol?

Liesel12 wrote...

We can't have it all, it's not realistic.

Neither it is realistic when LIs completly ignore Shep's actions that go against their own moral criterias. Yet they ALL do it, exactly for the sake of being able to 'have them all', no matter if you're a Paragon or Renegade. It's not in a bit realistic. But nobody complains.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 février 2012 - 08:37 .

[dirae]

StonedBatman wrote...

And yeah. Kaidan is forever ruined for me. Gotta say, I'll be disapointed if he turns out to be the new suddenly turned gay guy trying to hit on me. And if Garrus suddenly turns out to be S/S I will rage.

I think this is just the irrational panic that straight people have of gay/bi people pawing and attacking them. This has never been the case with any relationship in Mass Effect- no matter the gender. You basically have to push and push and get a character to spit out their feelings. People complain about Jacob Ninjamancing Shepard, but its basically Shepard repeatedly forcing the issue until Jacob finally says "yeah, let's give it try".

Again, I feel sorry for people who have to live and work around people who define others by sexuality first. If you learned your BFF was bi, would it forever ruin that person for you? If you see nothing wrong with that  I hope your friends have consented to that priviso, too

Modifié par dirae, 15 février 2012 - 08:40 .

[StonedBatman]

Liesel12 wrote...

I really don't think that Bioware will change the story of Kaidan in the third act. If they did, then they have to change Ashley. Or everyone for that matter, and make all bi. Seriously, can't there be some characters in a game that are plain straight and just be polite in regards to refusing a s/s interest?

We can't have it all, it's not realistic.

Exactly. Bioware should bring in some new characters for the VERY small S/S M/M group. Instead of changing and re-writing old characters.

[darksoulenigma]

Can someone link me to the facebook/multiplayer thingy?

[HowlingSiren]

StonedBatman wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

That's explained. And she was a les from the start. No changes.

And when did Kaidan say to you that he's not bi? That's right never. So bye bye. And don't even try to lie "ohh it's just about old characters". I saw you idiotic post in another thread, how much you hate they put male-male romance in ME3 (so unsurprising you only mentioned the male-male ones).

Don't you have better things to do than stalk me?

Kaidan has only shown interest in a female Shepard. Now, all of a sudden he likes it up the backside?

No, actually I'll be just as p*ssed if Miranda is rewriten for S/S. That's stupid. A writer shouldn't change who that character is. And for the pasted two games, Kaidan hasn't liked bum fun.

Are you really that clueless about people? Don't you know anyone who dated one gender then fell in love with someone from another gender, sometimes quite unexpectedly? If not, you should get out more. My best female friend dated men until she met and fell in love with another woman when she was 29 and that was 10 years ago.
She says she fell in love with a soul, not a body. Who are you to say that type of story would not suit Kaidan? I am straight and only play straight relationships but I have no problem with s/s romances sharing the same character. Why don't you wait and see how BioWare handles the story before criticizing. There are a million scenarios that could explain why Kaidan might have withheld his interest for a male Shep. All it takes is imagination... and an open mind.

[WhoKnew]

Nina88 wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

StonedBatman wrote...

That's explained. And she was a les from the start. No changes.

And when did Kaidan say to you that he's not bi? That's right never. So bye bye. And don't even try to lie "ohh it's just about old characters". I saw you idiotic post in another thread, how much you hate they put male-male romance in ME3 (so unsurprising you only mentioned the male-male ones).

Don't you have better things to do than stalk me?

Kaidan has only shown interest in a female Shepard. Now, all of a sudden he likes it up the backside?

No, actually I'll be just as p*ssed if Miranda is rewriten for S/S. That's stupid. A writer shouldn't change who that character is. And for the pasted two games, Kaidan hasn't liked bum fun.

Are you really that clueless about people? Don't you know anyone who dated one gender then fell in love with someone from another gender, sometimes quite unexpectedly? If not, you should get out more. My best female friend dated men until she met and fell in love with another woman when she was 29 and that was 10 years ago.
She says she fell in love with a soul, not a body. Who are you to say that type of story would not suit Kaidan? I am straight and only play straight relationships but I have no problem with s/s romances sharing the same character. Why don't you wait and see how BioWare handles the story before criticizing. There are a million scenarios that could explain why Kaidan might have withheld his interest for a male Shep. All it takes is imagination... and an open mind.

This. You put it far better than I could have. 

[Liesel12]

I'm not turning this into a bashing situation but because something isn't to the liking of some, then it has to change. I really don't care what sexuality someone is. I respect the person. I just don't think after years of development, however, the game isn't going to change a particular storyline or character to satisfy a few. It's not good business. Bioware is, afterall, trying to sell their game and tbh, going by the devs and many, many polls, Kaidan and Ashley are the least liked of squadmates. *rolls eyes*

I won't say Kaidan is 'ruined' because there is a lot of hearsay going on and not facts. Frankly, how you play your game or your Shepard is your business. I just don't like the clamor for changing established canon in game because it wasn't to someone's liking. That is why there is fics and art for that.

In the gaming industry, sex sells, and it is is still male on female sex. Bioware broke the mold in introducing s/s options but it is still a minor RP in the whole gaming industry.

[dirae]

jeweledleah wrote...


sigh, he was not meant to be bi, they recorded femshep dialogue with Mark meer and they concidered it once the redundant dialogue was done, but discarded the idea, becasue it didn't sound right.  and part of it, I think was dued to the way Eden Prime/Citadel flirting/ medbay scene is set up.  they are very distinctly favorite femshep, so they would litteraly have to add extra scenes (not just romance scene)  and add dialogue to account for that.  same with Ashley.

I suggest you look up "intent" in the dictionary. Intent has NO bearing on feasibility or final product. If there was no intent, why record dialogue? THAT is my point. Also, recording booth time can be relatively expensive. If there was NO intent, no recording.

In the end nothing the anti-gay anti-bi camp says holds up about "bi or gay" changing Kaidan. Has anyone here ever met a gay person? Ever known a closeted person other than what they see on tv?

Modifié par dirae, 15 février 2012 - 08:50 .

[shepskisaac]

Liesel12 wrote...

I just don't like the clamor for changing established canon in game because it wasn't to someone's liking.

When & where was it canonically established that Kaidan doesn't like men?

And frankly, in the scene where FemShep can't decide between two genders - him & Liara, he has this to say:

"A heart's a complex thing, Shepard. Yeah, I could blame you for indecision. But you think I've never been pulled in two directions?"

His own words, in ME1

StonedBatman wrote...

Changing a perfectly good
character.

In order for a change to occur, something has to be established first. When & where was it established that Kaidan did not like men? Until you provide us the answer, your argument about 'change' is simply false & illogical

Modifié par IsaacShep, 15 février 2012 - 08:51 .

[StonedBatman]

I won't hate Kaidan if he's S/S. I'll hate god damn Bioware for it. Changing a perfectly good character.Why does it have to be him? Somebody who has been straight for the passed two games! They should have introduced new characters for S/S romances....

[jeweledleah]

dirae wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...


sigh, he was not meant to be bi, they recorded femshep dialogue with Mark meer and they concidered it once the redundant dialogue was done, but discarded the idea, becasue it didn't sound right.  and part of it, I think was dued to the way Eden Prime/Citadel flirting/ medbay scene is set up.  they are very distinctly favorite femshep, so they would litteraly have to add extra scenes (not just romance scene)  and add dialogue to account for that.  same with Ashley.

I suggest you look up "intent" in the dictionary. Intent has NO bearing on feasibility or final product. If there was no intent, why record dialogue? THAT is my point. Also, recording booth time can be relatively expensive. If there was NO intent, no recording.

becasue they DIDN't intend.  they recorded redundant dialogue becasue at the time, they were STILL using paper and it was faster, easier and cheaper to record all then try to separate out the 5% of the dialogue that was romance specific.  and that's how we ended up with male Shepard telling off Harkin about calling him a princes, and asking Liara if she wanted to romance him, despite him being a woman.

as an artists, sometimes things I do end up with unintended result.  if the result is good, I end up using it even if its not something I originaly intended.  but if it doesn't fit?  I discared and remake.  this is what they did with ME1.  something they did ended up with unintended result so they tried to see if they could use it, but discarded it anyways, becasue it didn't work and they didn't have time to make it work.

there is no matching dialogue from Ashley or Kaidan.  only from Shepards.

[dirae]

StonedBatman wrote...

I won't hate Kaidan if he's S/S. I'll hate god damn Bioware for it. Changing a perfectly good character.Why does it have to be him? Somebody who has been straight for the passed two games! They should have introduced new characters for S/S romances....

He would still be a perfectly good character, no matter his sexuality. Just like in real life a person is still a perfectly good person, if they're gay or not.

[Anassiel]

i don't really want to join that discussion as it's completely pointless to me and i'm simply happy for people who had to wait so long to have a chance to roleplay just as they want to, but let me just notice one thing -

This has never been the case with any relationship in Mass Effect- no matter the gender. You basically have to push and push and get a character to spit out their feelings.

-well i can;t really agree with this, in Liara's case she's the pushing one, i always thought i'm just being polite, maybe friendly toward her and yet being "polite" triggers the romance no matter what.

[Hotaru29]

When Dragon Age 2's LI's were introduced there was an uproar mostly by straight male gamers that it was unfair, because the MAJORITY should be catered to.

Bioware responded that that was in no way fair and they are trying to change that fact. The majority is so USED to being catered to that they think they deserve it. I'm not calling out on anyone here, just want to bring in bioware's opinion (as i recall it from this forum) on the whole bisexual issue.

[PMC65]

IsaacShep wrote...

Liesel12 wrote...

I just don't like the clamor for changing established canon in game because it wasn't to someone's liking.

When & where was it canonically established that Kaidan doesn't like men?

And frankly, in the scene where FemShep can't decide between two genders - him & Liara, he has this to say:

"A heart's a complex thing, Shepard. Yeah, I could blame you for indecision. But you think I've never been pulled in two directions?"

His own words, in ME1

I missed that line ... that is sweet and sounds like Kaidan.

I'm not into spoilers but if it's been confirmed that Kaidan (& Ash *fingers crossed*) are now open to both Shepards then this kid will be happy!

[StonedBatman]

DA2 was just stupid with the romances. And it was a fail. Go figure.

[Liesel12]

IsaacShep wrote...

Liesel12 wrote...

I just don't like the clamor for changing established canon in game because it wasn't to someone's liking.

When & where was it canonically established that Kaidan doesn't like men?

And frankly, in the scene where FemShep can't decide between two genders - him & Liara, he has this to say:

"A heart's a complex thing, Shepard. Yeah, I could blame you for indecision. But you think I've never been pulled in two directions?"

His own words, in ME1

-----------------
And this could also mean being pulled by two people, not two genders. It is all vague and interepreted differently by whoever reads it. 

Besides, Liara is neither male or female. So, does that count?

Modifié par Liesel12, 15 février 2012 - 08:58 .

[bosiaxd]

Am I the only one here that just don't care about Kaidan's sexuality ? As long as he is romanceable for my FemShep - I'm happy.

Modifié par bosiaxd, 15 février 2012 - 08:56 .

[dirae]

jeweledleah wrote...

dirae wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...


sigh, he was not meant to be bi, they recorded femshep dialogue with Mark meer and they concidered it once the redundant dialogue was done, but discarded the idea, becasue it didn't sound right.  and part of it, I think was dued to the way Eden Prime/Citadel flirting/ medbay scene is set up.  they are very distinctly favorite femshep, so they would litteraly have to add extra scenes (not just romance scene)  and add dialogue to account for that.  same with Ashley.

I suggest you look up "intent" in the dictionary. Intent has NO bearing on feasibility or final product. If there was no intent, why record dialogue? THAT is my point. Also, recording booth time can be relatively expensive. If there was NO intent, no recording.

becasue they DIDN't intend.  they recorded redundant dialogue becasue at the time, they were STILL using paper and it was faster, easier and cheaper to record all then try to separate out the 5% of the dialogue that was romance specific.  and that's how we ended up with male Shepard telling off Harkin about calling him a princes, and asking Liara if she wanted to romance him, despite him being a woman.

as an artists, sometimes things I do end up with unintended result.  if the result is good, I end up using it even if its not something I originaly intended.  but if it doesn't fit?  I discared and remake.  this is what they did with ME1.  something they did ended up with unintended result so they tried to see if they could use it, but discarded it anyways, becasue it didn't work and they didn't have time to make it work.

You just disproved your own point. A sketch for example, you try different arm poses. The very act of drawing an arm in a dozen different angles before settling on a contrepasto, for example means you have exactly 12 intentions.. Each arm pose was drawn as a possible option.  Somewhere along the line people confuse "intent" with concrete finality and even success. And just like the game, you can see various intentions that didn't pan out, by putting that piece of paper in spectrograph or carbon dust you can see strokes that were put down and then erased.

Modifié par dirae, 15 février 2012 - 08:57 .