67440 réponses à ce sujet

[Dwarva]

What evidence is there he wasn't always bi?

[vernrev]

I do not think of such a change regarding Kaidan's "orientation" as a drastic one, because... for me, the sole term "orientation," is vague, it merely touches the whole concept of sexuality. If it was precise, you'd have only 100% heterosexual, 100% bisexual and 100% homosexual people, but even those "heterosexual" at some point of the biological growing up, as the typical feminine/masculine features are becoming fully developed, may show interest in their peers of the same gender as a result/outcome of gender-bound hormone production and nothing else. So... Kaidan might have been bisexual right at the start, I guess.
The endings... we'll see. Most probably they'll serve only a development of the currently existing ones without introducing any changes, to maintain their "artistic integrity."

Modifié par vernrev, 03 avril 2012 - 02:23 .

[TamiBx]

madlily wrote...

Aoibheann wrote...

 Omg! So funny... also from MassErrect  (i think, though maybe from somewhere else)  youtu.be/4-JrFmJY2xI 

omg ROFLMAO.. thats Seth Green ahahahahaha or someone who looks awfully close to him haha

edit - yep its Seth Green... that wins the internet!!

This..this made my morning! Omg, Seth Green! 

[Dwarva]

I have to admit I always sort of thought that Kaidan would have loved Shep no matter whether he was male or female, Human or Krogan He loved the person he was no matter what.

I think the same of Shep when I think of maleshep and Kaidan - its why the dialogue makes sense when they have their date. Shep says something like 'you and me? I'd never thought of that' but I guess I heard that as 'I'd never thought of being with a guy' but Kaidan was too special to pass up.

Modifié par Staarbux, 03 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[Kyria Nyriese]

Ochre wrote...

sanmar wrote...

No postings since 2 hours

Kaidan doesn't like it.

pic snipped

I was writing a fanfic...

www.fanfiction.net/s/7984422/1/

 /goes back to lurking.

Just read that one, I thought it was really well done and a very nice insight into Shepard at that point in time.  Thanks for sharing

[frylock23]

Staarbux wrote...

What evidence is there he wasn't always bi?

They made it so that he couldn't be played that way. I'm aware they originally wrote that part in, but they changed it. Then, after fan demand they changed it back.

This isn't about "pro" or "anti" or anything. This about them changing their art.

See if Kaidan can be changed due to fan demand, then so can other parts of the game ... like the end.

[frylock23]

vernrev wrote...

I do not think of such a change regarding Kaidan's "orientation" as a drastic one, because... for me, the sole term "orientation," is vague, it merely touches the whole concept of sexuality. If it was precise, you'd have only 100% heterosexual, 100% bisexual and 100% homosexual people, but even those "heterosexual" at some point of the biological growing up, as the typical feminine/masculine features are becoming fully developed, may show interest in their peers of the same gender as a result/outcome of gender-bound hormone production and nothing else. So... Kaidan might have been bisexual right at the start, I guess.
The endings... we'll see. Most probably they'll serve only a development of the currently existing ones without introducing any changes, to maintain their "artistic integrity."

I just get so fed up with this "it's art and we can't change art" thing.

Art most certainly can and does change. What does anything think the editorial process is for an author? Almost every book I've ever read has a section where the author thanks the people who went through the rough text both just friends and professional editors. Do people honestly think that the scripts they see are unchanged from rough draft to final? And every movie out there has test audiences who see the rough versions of the films before they hit the screen. Lots of films have been changed based those test audience's feedback. What do people think a director's cut is? They don't make up new footage; that's stuff that got taken out.

Point blank - Shep and Kaidan both deserve better than Shep being sacrificed to the whims of a Reaper construct which is really what happened.

[Dwarva]

frylock23 wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

What evidence is there he wasn't always bi?

They made it so that he couldn't be played that way. I'm aware they originally wrote that part in, but they changed it. Then, after fan demand they changed it back.

This isn't about "pro" or "anti" or anything. This about them changing their art.

See if Kaidan can be changed due to fan demand, then so can other parts of the game ... like the end.

Hmm I guess you're right. I guess in my head he was always both because he didn't make any outward comment he only liked woman.  It would have been different I guess if maleShep had come onto him and he'd made it clear he wasn't interested.

But I guess it's just up to interpretation

[shepskisaac]

frylock23 wrote...

I have decided that irony is BioWare claiming aristic integrity on their ending when Kaidan went from bi to straight to bi with the last was done purely to satisfy fan demand. If Kaidan can rapidly change his orientation to please the fans ... then the endings can be modified too without damaging artistic integrity.

Yet I don't see you complaining that artistic integrity was compromised when Kaidan's gay romance didn't happen in the first place not because they had a "he is strictly heterosexual" vision, but because of time constraints, disregarding gay romances as low priority and the marketing pressue to remove gay romances from Wal-Mart. Which has nothing to do with artistic integrity.

[lady winde]

Hey guys!

Just thought I'd let you know I'll be livestreaming in a few minutes (9:50am CST). Working on a commission that involves Kaidan and FemShep. Come check it out and chat with me Here be the link: http://www.livestream.com/ladywinde

Modifié par lady winde, 03 avril 2012 - 02:44 .

[Soccerchic601]

frylock23 wrote...

sanmar wrote...

@Sable Rhapsody Welcome! Good to hear that you like Kaidan now. I think Kaidan is very useful in ME1, if you upgrade him. He saved my ass very often. Wrex and Kaidan are my A-Team in ME1.

I always ran Kaidan/Garrus, even on my Insanity runs. They were the A-team. If anything, I found Garrus to be the squishiest early on, but that got better as he put on a few levels.

Initially, I found Garrus very squishy and never used him. He would always die on me in ME1. When I started my NG+, I leveled him up and found that he's quite the badass. Kaidan and Garrus were my ME1 dream team for my Hardcore run (and I plan to use them on my Insanity run as well). Sometimes my Shep would, literally, just stand there while Kaidan and Garrus did all the work. I pictured her glaring at them for stealing her kills.

Like Garrus, a lot of people don't realize how much of an asset Kaidan is. If you take the time to level him up properly, he's pretty spectacular (seewhatIdidthere).  Anyway, yeah, Kaidan is always by my Shep's side no matter what. I'm so glad we got him back as a squadmate in ME3. I missed him so much.

[LadyofRivendell]

lady winde wrote...

Hey guys!

Just thought I'd let you know I'll be livestreaming in a few minutes (9:50am CST). Working on a commission that involves Kaidan and FemShep. Come check it out and chat with me Here be the link: http://www.livestream.com/ladywinde

Aw! If I didn't have morning classes, I'd so love to watch! I guess I'll just have to check it out on YouTube later (provided that you upload like the last one )


And on an unrelated note, I had a dream that I was kidnapped by Harbinger's wife and then saved and adopted by the Illusive Man. It was...odd.

[Dwarva]

Weirdly I also had a ME dream last night that I was saving a Drell from an assassination group. Yep - been playing WAY too much ME...

[madlily]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

lady winde wrote...

Hey guys!

Just thought I'd let you know I'll be livestreaming in a few minutes (9:50am CST). Working on a commission that involves Kaidan and FemShep. Come check it out and chat with me Here be the link: http://www.livestream.com/ladywinde

Aw! If I didn't have morning classes, I'd so love to watch! I guess I'll just have to check it out on YouTube later (provided that you upload like the last one )


And on an unrelated note, I had a dream that I was kidnapped by Harbinger's wife and then saved and adopted by the Illusive Man. It was...odd.

@Ladywinde, ive never seen someone draw before.. you are amazing..

@LadyofRivendell.. ahahahaha wtf did you take before you went to sleep

[frylock23]

IsaacShep wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

I have decided that irony is BioWare claiming aristic integrity on their ending when Kaidan went from bi to straight to bi with the last was done purely to satisfy fan demand. If Kaidan can rapidly change his orientation to please the fans ... then the endings can be modified too without damaging artistic integrity.

Yet I don't see you complaining that artistic integrity was compromised when Kaidan's gay romance didn't happen in the first place not because they had a "he is strictly heterosexual" vision, but because of time constraints, disregarding gay romances as low priority and the marketing pressue to remove gay romances from Wal-Mart. Which has nothing to do with artistic integrity.

Stop being upset because you think you know what my position on a certain subject is. You don't know half of what you think you do.

Why would I? If I think the "artistic integrity" argument is crap in the first place, then I wouldn't be defending their choices with Kaidan based on "artistic integrity."

For whatever reason, they did what they did with him in ME1. I wasn't even aware of it until people hacked it off the disc. I guess it can be workable for him to play as bi, but I don't see how they can angle him as gay because of the Rhana thing (she was clearly a she which would kind of make a truly gay Kaidan a bit difficult to believe I would think).

My biggest beef with BioWare's current romantic trends is their propensity to write LIs that can play as one way or the other. I like to call it ambisexual (a play on ambivalent) as in the NPC doesn't know what orientation they are until the PC clues them in. I think it necessarily limits what writers can do with their characters. For example, if Kaidan had been written that way, they might have cut out the whole Rhana dialogue entirely in order to allow him to play believably as either gay or straight. And it might cut out entertaining characters like Zevran and Isabella who are openly and unapologetically bi.

Compared to the ME romances, most of which were established before the current trends (I'm looking at you DA2 ...), the DA2 romances just felt sort of shallow even though they were supposed to have been established over the course of a 10 year span. The only character in DA2 who got what felt to me like a realistic development arc was Aveline, but she wasn't constrained by having to play to nebulous player tastes, she could be unapologetically what she was - straight - and she had a logical conclusion to her romance because her writers were not constrained by the need to possibly satisfy a PC who was gay or straight and might take it wrong if Aveline didn't swing that way (whichever way it happened to be). Contrast that with Anders, Fenris, Merrill who all had to go with nothing defined and got stuck with a romance that felt like it took place over months rather than years.

And, FYI, I would argue that had Aveline been gay, she still woulg have gotten a much better arc because she wasn't constrained by the need to please the PC who remained undefined. The writers still could have done with her what they wanted.

At any rate, that went way off topic ...

I think you're reading way too much into what I said. I have no issues with them making Kaidan play back to bi in this game because doing so doesn't damage the straight romance. I do think it's a bit of a cop out to refuse to change the endings in the face of fan demand on the grounds of artistic integrity when you changed other parts of your game in the face of fan demand. They did it with more than just Kaidan. Howlong have fans demanded dates on the Citadel for example? The other day I had a list of fan service things they'd stuck into ME3. Hell, at times, it feels like half the game is fan service because there are so many things the fans demanded in it, but HELL NO, we can't change the endings to do that kind of fan service because of, you know, artistic integrity?!

Give me an effing break!

/rant

[shepskisaac]

frylock23 wrote...
Stop being upset because you think you know what my position on a certain subject is. You don't know half of what you think you do.

Don't be surprised if I'm getting suspicious when it's first Steve's marriage and now bi Kaidan you comment on in weird manner.

frylock23 wrote...
My biggest beef with BioWare's current romantic trends is their propensity to write LIs that can play as one way or the other.

But Kaidan's not written this way. It is clear for ManShep that he likes women too and any FemShep who romanced cheated with Jacob will know he likes men too.

frylock23 wrote...
At any rate, that went way off topic ...

It certinately did.

[madlily]

lady winde wrote...

Hey guys!

Just thought I'd let you know I'll be livestreaming in a few minutes (9:50am CST). Working on a commission that involves Kaidan and FemShep. Come check it out and chat with me Here be the link: http://www.livestream.com/ladywinde

would love to have finished watching you drawing but it was nearly midnight here as you got to Shep's hands, and as entertaining as it was to listen and lurk/read the chat, I needed to go to bed...

I hope that I'm around next time you livestream a drawing session as its incredible to watch someone create something artistic , maybe I might even join chat next time and chat live with other mad Kaidanites

[ZehnWaters]

Staarbux wrote...

I have to admit I always sort of thought that Kaidan would have loved Shep no matter whether he was male or female, Human or Krogan He loved the person he was no matter what.

I think the same of Shep when I think of maleshep and Kaidan - its why the dialogue makes sense when they have their date. Shep says something like 'you and me? I'd never thought of that' but I guess I heard that as 'I'd never thought of being with a guy' but Kaidan was too special to pass up.

Yeah, I got the impression in ME3 that he was Shepard-sexual.

[Ochre]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Ochre wrote...

sanmar wrote...

No postings since 2 hours

Kaidan doesn't like it.

pic snipped

I was writing a fanfic...

www.fanfiction.net/s/7984422/1/

 /goes back to lurking.

Just read that one, I thought it was really well done and a very nice insight into Shepard at that point in time.  Thanks for sharing

Thank you so much. :D  I always have these plotbunnies in my head but I'm always afraid of never finishing them.

[passinjer]

IsaacShep wrote...

frylock23 wrote...
Stop being upset because you think you know what my position on a certain subject is. You don't know half of what you think you do.

Don't be surprised if I'm getting suspicious when it's first Steve's marriage and now bi Kaidan you comment on in weird manner.

frylock23 wrote...
My biggest beef with BioWare's current romantic trends is their propensity to write LIs that can play as one way or the other.

But Kaidan's not written this way. It is clear for ManShep that he likes women too and any FemShep who romanced cheated with Jacob will know he likes men too.

frylock23 wrote...
At any rate, that went way off topic ...

It certinately did.

about the jacob comment, i dont think kaidan was saying he liked jacob or men in general. i think he was just commenting that he was glad shep didnt cheat with a total dosh or elcor looking dude. its like if a girl says another girl is pretty, that doesnt mean she likes the other girl. its just a comment
dont mean to sound condescending, just my opinion

Modifié par passinjer, 03 avril 2012 - 04:36 .

[AshTheBrave]

ZehnWaters wrote...

Yeah, I got the impression in ME3 that he was Shepard-sexual.

Lol. I always got that impression too. But hey, who can blame him? Male or female, Shepard is just irresistible.

[JamesS.]

I have something to ask, I haven't been able to get the best ending because of multiplayer, I tried it the other day with random people but some of them got mad at me for not being good enough, so I can't get to see my Kaidan get out with joker at the end. It's not because I am bad at playing mp but I just need to know what to do and to know how it works first. I am level one and the others were level 150.... I really hope that Bioware fixes the ems problem, its not fair to be forced to play mp to get the best ending. Anyway, my question was this, is there anyone who want to play mp with me on Xbox live?

Modifié par Enigma1322, 03 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[lady winde]

madlily wrote...

lady winde wrote...

Hey guys!

Just thought I'd let you know I'll be livestreaming in a few minutes (9:50am CST). Working on a commission that involves Kaidan and FemShep. Come check it out and chat with me Here be the link: http://www.livestream.com/ladywinde

would love to have finished watching you drawing but it was nearly midnight here as you got to Shep's hands, and as entertaining as it was to listen and lurk/read the chat, I needed to go to bed...

I hope that I'm around next time you livestream a drawing session as its incredible to watch someone create something artistic , maybe I might even join chat next time and chat live with other mad Kaidanites

Thank you for stopping by! Still going on for those interested.  Coloring Kaidan.

[acidqueen5426]

Enigma1322 wrote...

I have something to ask, I haven't been able to get the best ending because of multiplayer, I tried it the other day with random people but some of them got mad at me for not being good enough, so I can't get to see my Kaidan get out with joker at the end. It's not because I am bad at playing mp but I just need to know what to do and to know how it works first. I am level one and the others were level 150.... I really hope that Bioware fixes the ems problem, its not fair to be forced to play mp to get the best ending. Anyway, my question was this, is there anyone who want to play mp with me on Xbox live?

I'm on Origin.

[AshTheBrave]

Enigma1322 wrote...

I have something to ask, I haven't been able to get the best ending because of multiplayer, I tried it the other day with random people but some of them got mad at me for not being good enough, so I can't get to see my Kaidan get out with joker at the end. It's not because I am bad at playing mp but I just need to know what to do and to know how it works first. I am level one and the others were level 150.... I really hope that Bioware fixes the ems problem, its not fair to be forced to play mp to get the best ending. Anyway, my question was this, is there anyone who want to play mp with me on Xbox live?

I can help you out. I won't be home for another 2 hours though.