67443 réponses à ce sujet

[agumal]

I'm more particular on how well they write his character honestly. His romance comes in as a second priority to me. :3

[jeweledleah]

Arik7 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

just popping in to say that forum votes are not representative of player base as a whole. when bioware gives popularity numbers, they are talking based on actual game information, cerberus network updates etc. since this does in fact record who romanced whom, saved whom on virmire and whether they stayed loyal or moved on? I tend to trust bioware's info. its more complete. Kaidan has a very loyal, vocal if smaller following. but overall - he is not nearly as popular as most other characters. it doesn't make his character less in some way.

hell - Tali's following fan following is possibly the most vocal out there. you'd think she was the most popular character ever in ME games, and yet... when you look at the actual numbers? she's closer to the middle in character popularity, both as romance and squadmate.

Care to share the "numbers"?

pretty sure some of them were already posted in this thread somewhere.  the ones that bioware released anyways, they didn't releace all of them. numbers are from before PS2 version, so it might be slightly different now, but its not ike Genesis did Kaidan OR Ash any justice.  it comes from the same source as "only about 20% of players chosing femshep, Miranda being most popular squadmate in ME2, only 50% of the players imorting their games from ME1" etc. 

small loyal following =/= general popularity.  concider this.  50% of people didn't import their games.  which means they got default VS and no ME1 romances.  they got no chance to get to know them, as their only appearance is of the unfavorable type.  our of those 50% only 1/5th played femshep.  which means 40% of them never even met Kaidan  (which is where those "who is the guy next to Shepard"  questions came from when first promotional images for ME3 were released).  out of 50% that did import, only about 1/5 played femsheps.  out of that number, which amounts to about 10% - a conciderable amount romanced Liara.  some didn't pick any romances.

number of people saving Kaidan on Virmire is higher then that of the characters that romanced him, but it seems that majority still saved Ash.  some becasue she's a girl, some becasue she is a more vividly presented character, some becasue they decided that Kaidan is Carth and never gave him any chance, some may have even picked randomly.  Shall I go on?

does the worth of the character really have to hinge on said character's popularity?  as long as bioware realizes that there are enough people who actualy are going to see Kaidan in ME3, that they can no longer go with ME2 route of Kashley Wilenko - who cares what majority of fans think?  and Bioware, did realize it it seems, since both now have their own distinct and unique armors, Kaidan was actualy shown in promotion material (not as much as Ash - but again, more people expect to see here, so it only follows), and his VO said that he has many recording sessions before him for a substantial role.  now lets just hope they keep his character intact and stop worrying about popularity contests.

[Pax of Doom]

Arik7 wrote...

Care to share the "numbers"?

5:1 has been tossed around a lot for ManShep to FemShep.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's Ashley to Kaidan saves, nor does it mean there are that many more males playing than females.  Unless I confused it and that's actually Ashley to Kaidan saves.

[Arik7]

Pax of Doom wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

Care to share the "numbers"?

5:1 has been tossed around a lot for ManShep to FemShep.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's Ashley to Kaidan saves, nor does it mean there are that many more males playing than females.  Unless I confused it and that's actually Ashley to Kaidan saves.

I've seen that ratio before (80% to 20%).   That would make Kaidan the least romanceABLE character in ME and the least available VS in ME2, due to the game's design.  But this tells us nothing about Kaidan's popularity,

Modifié par Arik7, 10 août 2011 - 06:21 .

[FireEye]

To be fair - they only started tracking results with ME2, which doesn't really give good results either.

As mentioned, 50% of ME games were started in ME2, only 18-20% of players played FemShep (new games and continuations together) and Kaidan is only alive in FemShep new games and carry over DudeShep games.  Plus 50% of people didn't even finish their games.  Without seeing how this information intersects AND the ME1 data (that doesn't exist except in carry over games), it's really impossible to draw a reliable conclusion.  99% of the new games could easily be DudeShep, for example, because we're not given the full information.

And there's to take into consideration how some people like Kaidan fine, they just find other characters better in combat or whatever.  I've seen people say they don't take Kaidan to Ilos, because they want him safe.  Yet BioWare may take "taking on missions" to be indicative of how much people "like" any given squadmate.

(And I thought the numbers I saw were pre-PS3, fwiw.)

I dunno.  BioWare may know the gaming statistics for sure, but the data tracking still feels flawed because it doesn't feel like it'd get into people's heads as easily as that. 

[FireEye]

So apparently, Kaidan won't even shoot Saren if he's the only person in your party.  However, there's still a muzzle flash and Saren's head exploding from a bullet that isn't there, so it kinda looks like biotics may have been involved.  XD

Also, I noticed the scar on his lip is apparently two scars intersecting?  And there's yet another faint one between his upper lip and his nose (that you can notice in the right lighting, because it cuts through his stubble)?  ...and maybe two more, I think I'm just seeing things at this stage.

And in other news, Kaidan couldn't be happier to see that my Shep survived yet another brush with death.



"Oh, God, she's still alive.  Help me..."

:innocent:

[agumal]

^FireEye, your Shepard will have Kaidan's hair graying before he'd even hit 40 XD

[Chignon]

Another one by diraemythos:

"Commander Shepard, captain of the Normandy, the first human spectre, savior of the cita-- ooof!"

Upgrades by ~diraemythos

[mineralica]

Chignon wrote...

Another one by diraemythos:

/snip

"Commander Shepard, captain of the Normandy, the first human spectre, savior of the cita-- ooof!"

Upgrades by ~diraemythos

That's what I call "reunion"! Especially with switched roles and some biotic lifting:wub:

[nranola]

You know, that actually makes me wonder... Had Shepard been more vocal about her love for Kaidan during the Horizon scene (ex. superhugtacklelovelovelooove before he could say anything), do you think things would've played out differently?

Modifié par nranola, 10 août 2011 - 11:02 .

[Chignon]

It might've made a difference on how they parted, but I don't think it would've changed the overall outcome. Duty comes first.

[meonlyred]

FireEye wrote...

So apparently, Kaidan won't even shoot Saren if he's the only person in your party.  However, there's still a muzzle flash and Saren's head exploding from a bullet that isn't there, so it kinda looks like biotics may have been involved.  XD

Also, I noticed the scar on his lip is apparently two scars intersecting?  And there's yet another faint one between his upper lip and his nose (that you can notice in the right lighting, because it cuts through his stubble)?  ...and maybe two more, I think I'm just seeing things at this stage.

And in other news, Kaidan couldn't be happier to see that my Shep survived yet another brush with death.

/OmgNo!

"Oh, God, she's still alive.  Help me..."

:innocent:

He is a 'good kid' after all. I could have sworn I seen a youtube video of Kaidan shooting Saren but there is a very good chance I'm wrong because I can't find it again.

Also that screenshot has be rolling laughing. I can almost see his eye twitching.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

 now lets just hope they keep his character intact and stop worrying about popularity contests.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact it really is a giant popularity contest. The only reason Tali & Garrus became LIs in ME2 was because of popularity. The only reason they'll most likely be the only ME2 squaddies to return as perma/major squaddies in ME3 is because of popularity. Whether we like it or not, BioWare is influenced hella lot by popularity. My problem is not that Kaidan will never be as popular as Tali or Miranda, due to obvious reasons you've already listed. It's impossible to be super big when you're a "banging Ash or saving Kaidan" choice for straight dudes and then he was made dead by default for new X360 ManSheps in ME2. But that was BioWare's choice how to develop it! They're the ones responsible for the fact some people didn't even had a chance to know him. Yet then, they're all like "haha well, there's not much love for him". Well no kidding. No one expects much love for him among dudes when you did everything to make sure many people wouldn't even see him. They do know this franchise is dominated by (straight) male players. So of course he's never gonna be as popular as Tali. They should be concerned if he's popular among the fanbase that saved him/had a chance to know him and obviously, he is very popular among these people and there's hella lot love for him here.

[Ellyria]

nranola wrote...

You know, that actually makes me wonder... Had Shepard been more vocal about her love for Kaidan during the Horizon scene (ex. superhugtacklelovelovelooove before he could say anything), do you think things would've played out differently?

Shepard is a calm and collected solider, she wouldn't suddenly start displaying outbursts of extreme emotion!

Hah, okay, maybe that's how we're supposed to see Shepard, but I don't. I think it's a little ridiculous to think she's so well adjusted considering she's basically be left behind by time. Yes, it's been two years for everyone else, but for her it's been... what, a month? Maybe two? You can't tell me she doesn't have inner conflict because of that.

When I played Horizon, my Shep wanted to run to Kaidan as soon as she saw him, throw her arms around his neck, bury her face in his shoulder and inhale deeply. <3 Instead, we got the whole "Herp Derp, I'm with Cerberus now, lolz, come with?" *shudders*

After Horizon, I can imagine Kelly finding Shepard sitting on the floor of her quarters with a bottle of JD, drunk and crying about how everyone's moved on and she can't because it's only been a month for her, she can't adjust that quickly. Instead, we get "Oh that Kaidan, he's a good kid, maybe I miss him a little bit" during the convo with Kelly. *sigh*

[Sialater]

Chylise wrote...

nranola wrote...

You know, that actually makes me wonder... Had Shepard been more vocal about her love for Kaidan during the Horizon scene (ex. superhugtacklelovelovelooove before he could say anything), do you think things would've played out differently?

Shepard is a calm and collected solider, she wouldn't suddenly start displaying outbursts of extreme emotion!

Hah, okay, maybe that's how we're supposed to see Shepard, but I don't. I think it's a little ridiculous to think she's so well adjusted considering she's basically be left behind by time. Yes, it's been two years for everyone else, but for her it's been... what, a month? Maybe two? You can't tell me she doesn't have inner conflict because of that.

When I played Horizon, my Shep wanted to run to Kaidan as soon as she saw him, throw her arms around his neck, bury her face in his shoulder and inhale deeply. <3 Instead, we got the whole "Herp Derp, I'm with Cerberus now, lolz, come with?" *shudders*

After Horizon, I can imagine Kelly finding Shepard sitting on the floor of her quarters with a bottle of JD, drunk and crying about how everyone's moved on and she can't because it's only been a month for her, she can't adjust that quickly. Instead, we get "Oh that Kaidan, he's a good kid, maybe I miss him a little bit" during the convo with Kelly. *sigh*

Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.  None of MY Shepards would let Kelly in on ANYTHING personal.

Modifié par Sialater, 10 août 2011 - 05:01 .

[Ellyria]

Sialater wrote...

Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.  None of MY Shepards would let Kelly in on ANYTHING personal.

True, but I'm usually of the "if you don't see/hear it, it didn't happen" types in fiction. And, whether we like it or not, the convo with Kelly was supposed to show Shepard's reaction to meeting the VS on Horizon. And, in my opinion, the options we were given didn't do it justice. (of course, I didn't like the whole Horizon section at all.)

[Sialater]

But it's not proper fiction, it's an RPG. They couldn't have your Shepard react strongly. They had to take into account the other half of players where she wouldn't react strongly. AND still include the friend reaction.

They were damned if they did, damned if they didn't. Hence my head canon where Meghan and Avery (my two Kaidan romances) go up to their cabins and drink heavily but don't tell Kelly a bloody thing.

What she tells Joker actually feels closer to the real reaction.

Modifié par Sialater, 10 août 2011 - 05:18 .

[Caseshep]

Chylise wrote...
When I played Horizon, my Shep wanted to run to Kaidan as soon as she saw him, throw her arms around his neck, bury her face in his shoulder and inhale deeply. <3 Instead, we got the whole "Herp Derp, I'm with Cerberus now, lolz, come with?" *shudders*

Yeah, my Shep too. I just imagine that she kept a game face after Horizon until she got back on the Normandy, went to her quarters, and fell against the door defeatedly. She'd have a while to wallow in self-pity, and then she'd get back to her duties. Staying strong for the good of the team and all that jazz.
I don't think Shepard is as strong as she lets on. At least my Shepard isn't, but she's good at faking it, because she has to.
She would never let Kelly in on anything personal either.  Kaidan is the only one she has/will ever let in.

[mineralica]

IsaacShep wrote...

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact it really is a giant popularity contest. The only reason Tali & Garrus became LIs in ME2 was because of popularity. The only reason they'll most likely be the only ME2 squaddies to return as perma/major squaddies in ME3 is because of popularity. Whether we like it or not, BioWare is influenced hella lot by popularity. My problem is not that Kaidan will never be as popular as Tali or Miranda, due to obvious reasons you've already listed. It's impossible to be super big when you're a "banging Ash or saving Kaidan" choice for straight dudes and then he was made dead by default for new X360 ManSheps in ME2. But that was BioWare's choice how to develop it! They're the ones responsible for the fact some people didn't even had a chance to know him. Yet then, they're all like "haha well, there's not much love for him". Well no kidding. No one expects much love for him among dudes when you did everything to make sure many people wouldn't even see him. They do know this franchise is dominated by (straight) male players. So of course he's never gonna be as popular as Tali. They should be concerned if he's popular among the fanbase that saved him/had a chance to know him and obviously, he is very popular among these people and there's hella lot love for him here.

I don't think Tali and Garrus returned because of their popularity. Became LI - yes, I agree on that, but they were doomed to return because sequel needs returning character to make us feel continuation. And we trust BioWare in question "Liara and VS aren't in squad on purpose of leaving them out of death roster on SM" and Wrex is dead in part of playthroughs, it doesn't leave much room for choice.

And... strange thing about popularity - what fans want isn't what fans need. The difference in personalities is the thing that makes any game and especially character-based game great. Yes, any fan want more time with favs, their plot involvement and tons of DLCs, but who will really play, and especially replay, the apex of that - dating sim about one person? Not many, I think. Every fans need in not only chars s/he loves, but meh/hate ones too, because it's impossible to eat cakes all the time. Note also that character once hated may be redeemed, and vice versa. So I don't think BioWare know this and wouldn't toss characters off game just because "there's not much love for X".

[KyleTheArtist]

Okay, to be totally honest, on subject of Garrus, I looked at him the other day from different perspective now that some fanbase and personal preferences ruined his romance for me, and I was just like,"Good lord boi, you've got issues!" I was left with the impression, paraphrasing kelly here, " You just wanna hug him and tell him everything will be alright." but I really don't want to romance him anymore, because I feel like I am babysitting. :I He's cool and all, hell he's still my favorite squad mate, but I don't really see what's so darn amazing about him as a romance anymore, which felt like whole 'friends with benefits' to begin with. Besides, being a human I feel better having a human love interest anyway as it is something I am familiar with XD

Moving on though, I don't know but I heard people saying Kaidan is whiny. Personally, I felt like he's just trying to bond with Shepard(not necessarily romantically) by talking about how his life was before Normandy, many people do it IRL. SO how does that make him 'whiny' when Garrus does exactly freaking same through out ME1 and ME2, by saying how he feels C-Sec in unfair, and how he was betrayed? This is what I don't understand. I totally disregarded Kaidan on my very 1st ME1 playthrough so I totally missed this part, so I guess I was no better for not liking him lol

[shepskisaac]

mineralica wrote...
I don't think Tali and Garrus returned because of their popularity. Became LI - yes, I agree on that, but they were doomed to return because sequel needs returning character to make us feel continuation. And we trust BioWare in question "Liara and VS aren't in squad on purpose of leaving them out of death roster on SM" and Wrex is dead in part of playthroughs, it doesn't leave much room for choice.

I was talking about their return as full-time/major squaddies in ME3 though, not ME2. I get it with ME2, but why again now? With Liara & VS returning? IMO they would never ever come back again if it wasn't for their popularity. I mean, from the ME2 characters, they'll most likely end up being the only ones to return as big squadmates.

[Ellyria]

KyleTheArtist wrote...

Okay, to be totally honest, on subject of Garrus, I looked at him the other day from different perspective now that some fanbase and personal preferences ruined his romance for me, and I was just like,"Good lord boi, you've got issues!" I was left with the impression, paraphrasing kelly here, " You just wanna hug him and tell him everything will be alright." but I really don't want to romance him anymore, because I feel like I am babysitting. :I He's cool and all, hell he's still my favorite squad mate, but I don't really see what's so darn amazing about him as a romance anymore, which felt like whole 'friends with benefits' to begin with. Besides, being a human I feel better having a human love interest anyway as it is something I am familiar with XD

Moving on though, I don't know but I heard people saying Kaidan is whiny. Personally, I felt like he's just trying to bond with Shepard(not necessarily romantically) by talking about how his life was before Normandy, many people do it IRL. SO how does that make him 'whiny' when Garrus does exactly freaking same through out ME1 and ME2, by saying how he feels C-Sec in unfair, and how he was betrayed? This is what I don't understand. I totally disregarded Kaidan on my very 1st ME1 playthrough so I totally missed this part, so I guess I was no better for not liking him lol

Ahhh Garrus. I like him and all, but I did his romance and I was like "Uhhh, why does everyone think his romance is so great? Am I missing something here?" I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I prefer Kaidan with my canonShep, and then I have another Shep who is single in ME1 to romance Thane in ME2. (and let me tell you, was it ever hard to NOT romance Kaidan and have to shut him down in ME1.)

I think some of the "Kaidan is whiny" comes from people who think Carth and Kaidan are the exact same person, and another comes from the people that think he's a "boring human". Apparently talking about problems you've had in the past and using them as examples to try and help your friend/romantic interest makes you a whiner. 

[KyleTheArtist]

Chylise wrote...

Ahhh Garrus. I like him and all, but I did his romance and I was like "Uhhh, why does everyone think his romance is so great? Am I missing something here?" I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I prefer Kaidan with my canonShep, and then I have another Shep who is single in ME1 to romance Thane in ME2. (and let me tell you, was it ever hard to NOT romance Kaidan and have to shut him down in ME1.)

I think some of the "Kaidan is whiny" comes from people who think Carth and Kaidan are the exact same person, and another comes from the people that think he's a "boring human". Apparently talking about problems you've had in the past and using them as examples to try and help your friend/romantic interest makes you a whiner. 

Here's the thing though: I have no freaking idea who Carth is. XD  So to me, Kaidan felt like he was just opening up and trying to feel comfortable around Shepard. Goodness, Garrus does exactly the same, by telling you about C-Sec and how he was killing mercenaries on omega, so how does it make Kaidan less badass that he stood up for someone in past or that he feel Council is being unfair? :I

About Horizon, yes, I do belive he had right to be mad, because person you love, comes back fromt he dead and she's working for something you two used to fight against. He could have worded it better but I am gona give him him a benifit of a doubt due to the fact when U MAD? you don't really think clearly about what you saying XD

Modifié par KyleTheArtist, 10 août 2011 - 07:45 .

[RGC_Ines]

KyleTheArtist wrote...

Here's the thing though: I have no freaking idea who Carth is. XD  So to me, Kaidan felt like he was just opening up and trying to feel comfortable around Shepard. Goodness, Garrus does exactly the same, by telling you about C-Sec and how he was killing mercenaries on omega, so how does it make Kaidan less badass that he stood up for someone in past or that he feel Council is being unfair? :I

About Horizon, yes, I do belive he had right to be mad, because person you love, comes back fromt he dead and she's working for something you two used to fight against. He could have worded it better but I am gona give him him a benifit of a doubt due to the fact when U MAD? you don't really think clearly about what you saying XD

Carth is a male soldier from Star Wars The Knight of The Old Republic and female LI. And he is voiced ( like Kaidan) by Sbarge. To be honest I never thought about Carth as a whiny...He had his life before, his wife was killed and he thought that this same fate was for his son ( while he is in a Sith academy). The fact that he is talking about it, don't make him a " whiny"
This same is about Kaidan. He is a man but it's showed differently than " macho" stereotype. He is manly enough to not be affraid to discuss about his past, feelings and his hard times. I think, that's normal between two persons in any relationship ( friendship, romance etc).