67443 réponses à ce sujet

[Mimitochan]

http://nhaneh.tumblr.com/


http://loraine95.deviantart.com/

sarahann62380 wrote...

I LikeTo Doodle wrote...

AshTheBrave wrote...

Ainyan42 wrote...

Guys, remember that Bioware ALSO said that they intended the scene with the LI at the memorial to suggest that there will be a reunion with the LI in the future. It's all speculation - they aren't trying to drive anyone in any particular direction.

That's exactly what I was thinking. 

so bioware twists their own words?

heh heh

fun

I'm confused. What's happening? I thought BioWare had said no more post-ending content. And I know that they had said they ended it the way they did (if you chose destroy) in order for you to be able to make your own canon ending. So not just one would be correct. My thoughts were that they could have still shown Shepard being rescued and her/his LI running through the hospital. That would have been sufficient for me. Although I'm not nearly as angry about the ending as I was. Just still a bit disappointed. But it was so much better. 

Anyway, did BW say something else or? Maybe i"m just misunderstanding what's being said here. Forgive me, I may have missed where this conversation started.

Hi, it's about this, did you read it? http://social.biowar.../index/13143670.

5:48
Ley said "We did make it ambiguous on purpose..."
Hepler: "It could just be a last gasp before death, yeah."

So if this is a dying breath, the memorial scene, even the high EMS one, is useless.
This quote doesn't actually change anything, but I think it would have been tasteful and well-advised to just let it rest.
It's rather lame. Again.

Modifié par Mimitochan, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:54 .

[Vigilant111]

Mimitochan wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...
Same resolution, but thanks for replying:D, I was thinking maybe take a screenshot off YT while playing full screen but not sure if that picture is actually in the Citadel scene, but I will check anyway

I think it's at the end of the Citadel date, when he says "I'm gonna take my time", this is probably hi-res flycamming.

laikabaws wrote...

@Mimitochan last, made-up glimpses of the people that stuck with a very pained and delirious Shep...that's just... sad /tissue

I'll take one thanks  - thanks for the dialogue transcripts btw

Don't have flycam [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] thanks for the info though:)

[blmlozz]

I'm confused. What's happening? I thought BioWare had said no more post-ending content. And I know that they had said they ended it the way they did (if you chose destroy) in order for you to be able to make your own canon ending. So not just one would be correct. My thoughts were that they could have still shown Shepard being rescued and her/his LI running through the hospital. That would have been sufficient for me. Although I'm not nearly as angry about the ending as I was. Just still a bit disappointed. But it was so much better.

Anyway, did BW say something else or? Maybe i"m just misunderstanding what's being said here. Forgive me, I may have missed where this conversation started.

I assume you didn't read the panels comments (or helpers) on the destory ending canon? The problem is these endings are so open-ended people are taking anything Bioware tells them as cannon for how they invisioned the endings occuring themselves. Thats all and fine if you're ambigous about what you tell people. They haven't been. The only person that knows what they were truely impling are the person(s) who wrote these endings. No one else knows, clearly it shows.

They're specificly letting very non-ambigious versions of these endings slip, or tell people exactly what happens that they didn't out-right say for whatever reason. When you do that, you're going to ****** a lot of people off, More so when it's some idiot like Helper directly contradiciting what's been posted by other Bioware personel on this exact issue.

The huff is they specificly stated that destory was supposed to imply reunion.

Then they specificly stated' 'no, it was supposed to be ambigious'

Then helper said 'yeah, acutally shepard dies in that scene too'

talk about going back and forth on the issue, and then 100feet up into the air. They're litertally all over the place! It's halarious and infuriating at the same time.

To sum up;

No, you need to headcannon
No we ment that shepard lives, see the file names? The LI hestitating to put your name on the wall?
No It was meant to mean anything
No shepard acutally dies.

Modifié par blmlozz, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:21 .

[dstrawberrygirl]

sarahann62380 wrote...
Anyway, did BW say something else or? Maybe i"m just misunderstanding what's being said here. Forgive me, I may have missed where this conversation started.

I'm not sure why people are so mad, a couple of statements about how Destroy + high EMS could be interpreted differently and boom, venomous explosion that seems out of proportion. (see transcript and backlash here)

Meh, really doesn't bother me any more - couple of guys dare to say that breathing scene could be interpreted differently in endings that are still not exactly clear and leave plenty of room for explanation beyond that which is presented. Which is fine with me. Because no-one said in the ending of Destroy that EDI definitely dies or that the Geth definitely die - so as far as I am concerned, that leaves room for a more positive explanation. Leaving it open is the best we can hope for I think, because otherwise we could have been told, in no uncertain terms, that everyone DIES IN THE END! (because, hey, that's life for you)

Catching up on overnight's posts - @blmlozz - yes, I agree on LoTSB - I love playing that level, the pace, the content, the music all work really well... if Omega is to work, I'd actually like to play it post-endings as Aria, though I know that ain't gonna work. But just imagine the dialog choices, you'd get snarky, megasnarky, ****y and superior.

I thought Javik was awesome, but damn, his declaration that he just wants to die at the end? yeah, that doesn't work for me  so much.

Leviathan sounds awesome, but here's the thing... I have stories in mind for Shepard but don't particularly want to write them until I know what the full plot is all about. If there's no post-ending DLC then it's making it hard to feel like writing a story that may be contradicted or outdated if more content comes up pre-ending that changes the feel of the game... 

[AshTheBrave]

I agree. That line Helper said just says "could". I don't see what the fuss is about.

[laikabaws]

 @Mimitochan For the dialogue transcripts, thanks for appreciating them <3 I just figured all of my worthless dialogue screenshots should be put to good use somehow (also as a gratitude to fellow Kaidan fans), and to have a resource to all of Kaidan's ME3 dialogue until I finally put ME3 down (which I figure is pretty soon. I'm getting sort of burned out by my ultimate renegade psycho playthrough--my last playthrough, and Bioware's treatment of ME3 in general )...for nostalgia's sake (Bioware-the gaming company that I used to know haha  ).


Also, I've significantly updated my Maximizing Kaidan's Banter Guide: http://social.biowar...14/blog/214517/ 
and added a transcription of Kaidan's Normandy Banter: http://social.biowar...14/blog/215850/ 
for those interested (although they're still not complete...need to stop being lazy and finish my playthrough  ). Interestingly though, Tali being dead in the geth dreadnought mission has a lot of Kaidan banter...

And finally, my other Kaidan banter transcription here: http://social.biowar...14/blog/214518/ 

Modifié par laikabaws, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:28 .

[blmlozz]

I'm not sure why people are so mad, a couple of statements about how Destroy + high EMS could be interpreted differently and boom, venomous explosion that seems out of proportion. (see transcript and backlash here)

Meh, really doesn't bother me any more - couple of guys dare to say that breathing scene could be interpreted differently in endings that are still not exactly clear and leave plenty of room for explanation beyond that which is presented. Which is fine with me. Because no-one said in the ending of Destroy that EDI definitely dies or that the Geth definitely die - so as far as I am concerned, that leaves room for a more positive explanation. Leaving it open is the best we can hope for I think, because otherwise we could have been told, in no uncertain terms, that everyone DIES IN THE END! (because, hey, that's life for you)

they wanted to leave these to interpretation. Instead they're telling people exactly what's happening with that. I haven't seen a single person suggest they went for destroy because acutally destroying the reapers was more important than synthesis or control. They went for destroy because shepard lives.

It's perfectly understandable when you've told people before- directly related to the issue that YES, shepard lives, YES, he lives with his L/I later on. Then followup with 'meh, I don't know, it could go either way'

Yes and No answers are very direct answers. Having people then telling you something different is confusing at best.

Modifié par blmlozz, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:34 .

[AshTheBrave]

blmlozz wrote...

It's perfectly understandable when you've told people before- directly related to the issue that YES, shepard lives, YES, he lives with his L/I later on. Then squash that with 'NO' shepard dies.

Yes and No answers are very powerful when you're talking about thousands of permuataions and 4 open-ended conclusions. They should have said nothing on the topic.

I'm just going by the things people posted, but it doesn't look like anyone said yes, Shepard dies. They said it could be that way.

[Mimitochan]

Well Helper doesn't say its is a dying scene, he says it could be.
I take it as some sort of secret rejoycing at knowing things we don't, or poor attempt at sounding mysterious or mind-boggling. Or am I understanding wrong?

I honestly thought they had some sort of PR meeting with all ME related employees to be briefed over what they're supposed to say, but looks like either they couldn't care less about their own official statements or they have no idea what to say.

There was just another recent post from TullyAckland about how there is no canon, how they want to make the endings open to headcanon and so on.

laikabaws wrote...
For the dialogue transcripts, thanks for appreciating them I just figured all of my worthless dialogue screenshots should be put to good use somehow (also as a gratitude to fellow Kaidan fans), and to have a resource to all of Kaidan's ME3 dialogue until I finally put ME3 down (which I figure is pretty soon. I'm getting sort of burned out by my ultimate renegade psycho playthrough--my last playthrough, and Bioware's treatment of ME3 in general )...for nostalgia's sake (Bioware-the gaming company that I used to know haha ).

I feel the same, but I just can't leave poor LT like that just yet. I need a little more time.
Yeah, i've subscribed to your various blogs about banters and so on, ah also, wanted to add that the monastery tripping is not Kaidan specific, but still one my fav lines
Thank you for updating this, and also, wanted to ask directions for the same kind of resources for ME & ME2 - which undoubtely already exist.

Modifié par Mimitochan, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:39 .

[blmlozz]

AshTheBrave wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

It's perfectly understandable when you've told people before- directly related to the issue that YES, shepard lives, YES, he lives with his L/I later on. Then squash that with 'NO' shepard dies.

Yes and No answers are very powerful when you're talking about thousands of permuataions and 4 open-ended conclusions. They should have said nothing on the topic.

I'm just going by the things people posted, but it doesn't look like anyone said yes, Shepard dies. They said it could be that way.

The reality I believe is that people who pick destroy with high EMS do so because shepard lives. They don't like being told 'yeah, maybe he dies' 

More so after Ackland goes into detail about the suggestive nature of the high EMS destroy option 

Look at it this way;
http://www.holdtheli...-effect-3.2569/

pretty much most headcannon descrption of destory right?...

Then.. Helper and the panel explains, well, that might not necessarly be true.

Modifié par blmlozz, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:46 .

[Mimitochan]

blmlozz wrote...

AshTheBrave wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

It's perfectly understandable when you've told people before- directly related to the issue that YES, shepard lives, YES, he lives with his L/I later on. Then squash that with 'NO' shepard dies.

Yes and No answers are very powerful when you're talking about thousands of permuataions and 4 open-ended conclusions. They should have said nothing on the topic.

I'm just going by the things people posted, but it doesn't look like anyone said yes, Shepard dies. They said it could be that way.

Ninja edit fail.

The problem from my perspective is summed up in my revised post. They said he lives. The panel said, mabye he lives, maybe he dies. Who knows? I took the 'it was supposed to be ambigious' then helper's retory 'yeah, maybe that's shepards last breath'  as a inuendo that he dies.

It was ambigious in the orginal ending. It was clarified in the EC then reinforced that he lives on the forums.

Telling people that 'ehh.. mabye he dies' after that is going to russle some feathers.

I agree. People were happy to have something to cling to.
Quite honestly, I personally had no doubt whatsoever about the fact that this was Shepard alive and breathing. Breathing is hope, no matter what happens next.
It doesn't sound like a dying breath to me, Shepard is taking breath here, not letting air out.
Just as people were finally coping with the endings, somebody at BW had to add this unwanted detail.
Awkward.
And probably unecessarily cruel - even if unintended.
Let's just say stupid then. 

Modifié par Mimitochan, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:46 .

[AshTheBrave]

blmlozz wrote...

Telling people that 'ehh.. mabye he dies' after that is going to russle some feathers.

Oh definitely. I think they should just shut up about the whole mess. I just don't think people should say they said Shepard dies. They left it open. That's just Helper's headcanon I guess.


I agree Mimitochan. It doesn't sound like a dying breath to me. Actually sounds strong. Living.

[sarahann62380]

Wow. I had heard that they said that they knew we (the fans) would think it was too bleak if she/he was just dead. Why they felt the need to kill the hero amazes me. People like it when the hero wins and lives -- not "bittersweet" or whatever that's meant to be. Hm. And here I was starting to move on. But reading that other forum--I just--I don't even know. Grumble grumble grumble.

[sarahann62380]

dstrawberrygirl wrote...

sarahann62380 wrote...
Anyway, did BW say something else or? Maybe i"m just misunderstanding what's being said here. Forgive me, I may have missed where this conversation started.

I'm not sure why people are so mad, a couple of statements about how Destroy + high EMS could be interpreted differently and boom, venomous explosion that seems out of proportion. (see transcript and backlash here)

Meh, really doesn't bother me any more - couple of guys dare to say that breathing scene could be interpreted differently in endings that are still not exactly clear and leave plenty of room for explanation beyond that which is presented. Which is fine with me. Because no-one said in the ending of Destroy that EDI definitely dies or that the Geth definitely die - so as far as I am concerned, that leaves room for a more positive explanation. Leaving it open is the best we can hope for I think, because otherwise we could have been told, in no uncertain terms, that everyone DIES IN THE END! (because, hey, that's life for you)

Catching up on overnight's posts - @blmlozz - yes, I agree on LoTSB - I love playing that level, the pace, the content, the music all work really well... if Omega is to work, I'd actually like to play it post-endings as Aria, though I know that ain't gonna work. But just imagine the dialog choices, you'd get snarky, megasnarky, ****y and superior.

I thought Javik was awesome, but damn, his declaration that he just wants to die at the end? yeah, that doesn't work for me  so much.

Leviathan sounds awesome, but here's the thing... I have stories in mind for Shepard but don't particularly want to write them until I know what the full plot is all about. If there's no post-ending DLC then it's making it hard to feel like writing a story that may be contradicted or outdated if more content comes up pre-ending that changes the feel of the game... 

I guess you're right. I wasn't really mad about it anymore. Just a little disappointed -- just ignore the most recent post I put in here. It was knee-jerk (as I'm sure a lot of people do). And actually I think Jessica did confirm that EDI and the Geth did die if you chose destroy. But anyway--they can be repaired, so there's that. So yeah, it's all open for headcanon. I guess I"m just a bit disappointed that I need to. My thought is, at this point, you could have given me like 8-10 second scene of Shep being rescued with his/her LI running through a hospital and I would have been satisfied and you could still headcanon away what happens after that. And as far as choosing destroy and getting the breath scene and them saying that it could be the last breath before death, I'm betting (and this is just my opinion) part of the reason that people choose destroy with a high enough EMS is because Shepard lives (or at least you have that hope that she lives), but of course there are the moral implications as well. Not that I judge those that choose synthesis or control, to each their own. But that almost doesn't make much sense to me to say that sure it could have been the last breath before death. OK. It's not my Shepard's last breath and that's what I'm going with.

[dstrawberrygirl]

AshTheBrave wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

Telling people that 'ehh.. mabye he dies' after that is going to russle some feathers.

Oh definitely. I think they should just shut up about the whole mess. I just don't think people should say they said Shepard dies. They left it open. That's just Helper's headcanon I guess.


I agree Mimitochan. It doesn't sound like a dying breath to me. Actually sounds strong. Living.

As someone who has heard dying breath, it seems a little too strong to be one of those, but then acting out dying breath may be hard if you've not had to watch someone die. 

I'm just gonna go shoot things now, don't mind me...

[txmn1016]

sarahann62380 wrote...

Wow. I had heard that they said that they knew we (the fans) would think it was too bleak if she/he was just dead. Why they felt the need to kill the hero amazes me. People like it when the hero wins and lives -- not "bittersweet" or whatever that's meant to be. Hm. And here I was starting to move on. But reading that other forum--I just--I don't even know. Grumble grumble grumble.

Just do like me and forget you ever heard it

Yeah, they left the breath scene a little ambiguous, but I take that as a good thing because it gives the fans more to work with while they're continuing the story and the universe long after the franchise has ended and the writers have given up on it.  

The very fact that we had 3 or 4 different responses on that breath scene says to me that there is no canon when it comes to the Destroy ending, or any of the endings for that matter. 

It bothered me more that that question got asked at all.  I, and I know quite a few others, suspected that the breath scene may have got put in as a kind of fan service, but it would have been a lot more tactful (and probably artistic) to just shut the hell up about it and let the fans roll with it.  That's a scene that really didn't need to be dissected.  It was a good enough end of Shepard's story for me.  I can imagine him/her being found later and reuiniting with the crew/LI.  I don't really need that to happen in game and I don't need a final sputtering death cough either.  The intent (I think) of the breath scene was hope that Shepard would have a life after the war and I think it accomplished that.  I don't really need to speculate on anything else because the writer's intent was clear enough and anything more on it is just going to diminish the quality of what they were trying to accomplish.  

Modifié par txmn1016, 16 juillet 2012 - 03:40 .

[sarahann62380]

dstrawberrygirl wrote...

AshTheBrave wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

Telling people that 'ehh.. mabye he dies' after that is going to russle some feathers.

Oh definitely. I think they should just shut up about the whole mess. I just don't think people should say they said Shepard dies. They left it open. That's just Helper's headcanon I guess.


I agree Mimitochan. It doesn't sound like a dying breath to me. Actually sounds strong. Living.

As someone who has heard dying breath, it seems a little too strong to be one of those, but then acting out dying breath may be hard if you've not had to watch someone die. 

I'm just gonna go shoot things now, don't mind me...

And this is something to cling to -- that it doesn't sound like a dying breath. I finally saw the GIF created for it and I was so glad to see it because you blink and you miss it. You can hear the breath but you can't really see it. Oh Tumblr, how I love you.

[blmlozz]

sarahann62380 wrote...

Wow. I had heard that they said that they knew we (the fans) would think it was too bleak if she/he was just dead. Why they felt the need to kill the hero amazes me. People like it when the hero wins and lives -- not "bittersweet" or whatever that's meant to be. Hm. And here I was starting to move on. But reading that other forum--I just--I don't even know. Grumble grumble grumble.

I like to think of Shepard and the destroy ending (and why people are upset over this)  in this context;

http://blogs.scienti...kill-your-hero/

Modifié par blmlozz, 16 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[chibievil]

  

so whilst my internet went off i drew kaidan

[Ainyan42]

I think everyone is taking one off-the-cuff comment a little too seriously.

1) Bioware has stated that there will be no post-ending DLC. They have said this A LOT.

2) Bioware has stated that any pre-ending DLC will not change the ending. The ending is what the ending is.

3) Bioware has stated that they deliberately left certain things in the ending 'ambiguous' to allow fans to fill in the blanks on their own.

Everyone is getting up in arms because 'OMG I DIDN'T SEE MY SHEPARD LIVE AND HAVE BABIES WITH HIS/HER LI' - but the fact of the matter is, there are a LOT of people who don't believe Shepard should live. They buy into the tragic hero must die to save the world trope and they believe that Shepard living would cheapen his/her sacrifices. Rather than ****** everyone off by absolutely stating 'Shepard Lives' or 'Shepard Dies', they gave you the opportunity to decide that for yourself by offering an ambiguous shot of Shepard breathing.

Hefler's comment was not some ambiguous hint to a future DLC where Shepard dies. It was not intended to crush the hearts and souls of Shenkoshippers, Talimancers, Garrusmancers, Jackolytes, etc everywhere - it was intended to point out that the final breath sequence COULD BE INTERPRETED as a dying breath.

I know a lot of you are upset with Bioware, that you didn't get exactly what you wanted. I sympathize - but I remind you, this is an extremely complex game and complex world. Showing everyone every little detail would have added years onto the project. Literally. They gave you enough in the EC to know that:

1) Your LI believes that you are alive (if your EMS is high enough for the breath scene).

2) Shepard takes a breath.

3) Your LI and the Normandy make it off of Sur'Kesh and head home.

From there, it's an easy extrapolation to imagine a reunion between Shepard and LI, or the tears of the LI on finding that Shepard just couldn't hang on - whatever floats your boat and soothes your soul.

I'm sorry that so many of you are still dissatisfied - it breaks my heart how many people are still calling for Bioware's head. But the fact of the matter is, what you have gotten is what you're going to get. They are done with the ending. They are not going to change it, they are not going to add to it. I, myself, am perfectly fine with that. I have no trouble imagining what is going on with Shepard as she recouperates in a London hospital, her mother at her side and Kaidan racing home to her.

But be cheered - what you got is what you're going to get, and not all the insensitive remarks from writers can change the fact that Bioware officially stated that the ending was deliberately staged to be ambiguous to allow people to believe their Shepard either lives on to love or dies heroically fighting for what he/she believes in.

Your Shepard CAN LIVE.

[txmn1016]

blmlozz wrote...

sarahann62380 wrote...

Wow. I had heard that they said that they knew we (the fans) would think it was too bleak if she/he was just dead. Why they felt the need to kill the hero amazes me. People like it when the hero wins and lives -- not "bittersweet" or whatever that's meant to be. Hm. And here I was starting to move on. But reading that other forum--I just--I don't even know. Grumble grumble grumble.

I like to think of Shepard and the destroy ending (and why people are upset over this)  in this context;

http://blogs.scienti...kill-your-hero/

Wow! That was actually a really interesting read.  Thanks for sharing.  

[AshTheBrave]

Cool article blmlozz. I think it's Mass Effect perfectly.

Ainyan42 wrote...

Hefler's comment was not some ambiguous
hint to a future DLC where Shepard dies. It was not intended to crush
the hearts and souls of Shenkoshippers, Talimancers, Garrusmancers,
Jackolytes, etc everywhere - it was intended to point out that the final
breath sequence COULD BE INTERPRETED as a dying breath.

It's starting to feel like a witch hunt. I think it's just still raw for a lot of people though.

Ainyan42,  I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I do believe though that they could have done the tragic endings and the "happier" endings without being ambiguous. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with how things are right now. Happy even. I loved the EC. Shepard Lives and that's that. For me at least.

Dragon Age was able to pull the the tragic hero ending, and it gave you several ways out too. It had something for the tragic hero lovers and for those who wanted happy endings. I just wish Mass Effect could have done the same. Not a deal breaker for me. Mass Effect is still my favorite series. I'll just be more careful with getting too invested in the hero if I find out what games these guys are involved with.

[Ainyan42]

AshTheBrave wrote...

Cool article blmlozz. I think it's Mass Effect perfectly.

Ainyan42 wrote...

Hefler's comment was not some ambiguous
hint to a future DLC where Shepard dies. It was not intended to crush
the hearts and souls of Shenkoshippers, Talimancers, Garrusmancers,
Jackolytes, etc everywhere - it was intended to point out that the final
breath sequence COULD BE INTERPRETED as a dying breath.

It's starting to feel like a witch hunt. I think it's just still raw for a lot of people though.

Ainyan42,  I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I do believe though that they could have done the tragic endings and the "happier" endings without being ambiguous. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with how things are right now. Happy even. I loved the EC. Shepard Lives and that's that. For me at least.

Dragon Age was able to pull the the tragic hero ending, and it gave you several ways out too. It had something for the tragic hero lovers and for those who wanted happy endings. I just wish Mass Effect could have done the same. Not a deal breaker for me. Mass Effect is still my favorite series. I'll just be more careful with getting too invested in the hero if I find out what games these guys are involved with.

My thoughts on the matter are - yes, they could have done a more DA:O type ending. But this isn't DA:O, this is ME. They had a vision. I actually respect the fact that they went out of their way to make it ambiguous and leave it open to personal interpretation rather than slamming the door shut and saying 'NO, SHEPARD DIES' and pissing off all of us who don't feel Shepard needs to die for the ending to have impact - or vice versa, slamming the door shut and saying 'SHEPARD LIVES' and disappointing the people who believe that a tragic hero requires a heroic death.

Would I have been happy with a reunion scene and proof positive that my Shepard lived and is currently making green and brown eyed babies with Kaidan? Sure! But I understand - and respect - that Bioware didn't want to force that on the people who believe Shepard had to die. And the way the endings were set up, everyone who did Destroy with high EMS would have been channeled into a reunion scene had such a scene been included.

It's important to remember: DA:O's endings were not very morally ambiguous. Well, okay, they were, but the effects of the moral ambiguity were not nearly as prevalent as they were in ME. You could fail, you could sacrifice yourself, you could sacrifice another, or you could make a deal with the devil. If you want to get real technical, everyone who took the last choice so they could live on happily with Alistair or whoever contributed to the creation of an anti-Christ figure that I imagine will figure heavily as a world-destructive villain in the future. But you don't SEE the effects of your choice, so it's not readily apparent exactly what you're doing. In fact, it is barely alluded to at all. So to most people, that choice is the 'Happy Ending choice' - because you never get a clear picture of how that choice will affect the world in the future.

Mass Effect's endings, on the other hand, were actually quite morally ambiguous - and none of them was designed in such a way that the choice felt 'right'. Control was TIM's choice, sets Shepard up as a God-figure - and sets the stage for the cycle to renew itself once Shepard realizes that no matter how hard he/she tries, he/she can't keep the peace. Synthesis 'supposedly' created galactic peace by making everyone the same - but by doing so, you destroy all that is good about genetic diversity (an underlying theme in the ME games, by the way, which is why Bioware's championing of Synthesis cracks me up), you subvert free will by forcing it on everyone without their permission, and it doesn't change the underlying attitudes and personalities of the races, only their genetic structure. The Yahg are still warlike, the Asari still have superiority complexes, and the Vorcha are still violent and primative. I can't believe for an instant that everyone being organic/synthetic suddenly means we will all live in peace and harmony (which is the underlying tone in the epilogue).

And Destroy? In Destroy, if you take the Catalyst at face value, you commit genocide and murder a friend. And you do so without asking if they're okay with sacrificing themselves for the greater good.

Yeah, no matter how you look at it, there is no 'good' ending in Mass Effect 3. You don't choose an ending in ME3 based on whether or not your character will live and who he/she lives with (which is how you chose your ending in DA:O) - you choose an ending in ME3 based on which leaves you feeling the best about the future (and your own morals). So there will be just as many of those 'tragic hero must die' types choosing Destroy because they believe that it is the least morally falacious of the endings as there are 'my Shepard must live' types. Hence, the need for ambiguity.

[blmlozz]

AshTheBrave wrote...

Cool article blmlozz. I think it's Mass Effect perfectly.

It's starting to feel like a witch hunt. I think it's just still raw for a lot of people though.

Ainyan42,  I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I do believe though that they could have done the tragic endings and the "happier" endings without being ambiguous. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with how things are right now. Happy even. I loved the EC. Shepard Lives and that's that. For me at least.

Dragon Age was able to pull the the tragic hero ending, and it gave you several ways out too. It had something for the tragic hero lovers and for those who wanted happy endings. I just wish Mass Effect could have done the same. Not a deal breaker for me. Mass Effect is still my favorite series. I'll just be more careful with getting too invested in the hero if I find out what games these guys are involved with.

I knew that was exactly what this was from the begining. I wouldn't have said it in such a negative way but the fact is. We've had 5 years, 3 games and 300hours of content, of knowing exactly what happens, how it happens and the consequences. Suddenly we're asked to make up our own idea about how all of this comes into play and it's difficult because good narritive always is. This streaches into my article I linked. It's one thing to go in and say-- starting to play make-believe on your own, with your own imagination. But when you're accustomed to having details explained, having a narrative that's your own essentially and find that you now need to figure it out on your own, it's upsetting. That doesn't make it a realistic expectation, but it does make sense why people ask for details or 'why couldn't they have done this? It couldn't possibly have taken more than 10 seconds?!'

Yeah, no matter how you look at it, there is no 'good' ending in Mass Effect 3. You don't choose an ending in ME3 based on whether or not your character will live and who he/she lives with (which is how you chose your ending in DA:O) - you choose an ending in ME3 based on which leaves you feeling the best about the future (and your own morals). So there will be just as many of those 'tragic hero must die' types choosing Destroy because they believe that it is the least morally falacious of the endings as there are 'my Shepard must live' types. Hence, the need for ambiguity.

That's the problem with it I believe. It's not satisifying in the traditional sense of 'this is how it should end' you're left to decide what to make of it yourself. I'm not nearly talented enough to decide what could be better, but I do know that the game play was designed to provide at least the illusion of choice, that's what made it a sucess and felt real. Like it or not, the plot of the game is mostly linear, it's still mostly a canon narritave. Shepard defeates saren, dies, defeates the collectors, goes on to deafeate the reapers, and then, instead of giving you the illusion of choice they give you some acutal choice (at least in the EC) Suddenly bioware isn't doing the canon, you are. I didn't like that. I realize that it was necessary, I almost accept that, but it doesn't make me feel any better.

Modifié par blmlozz, 16 juillet 2012 - 05:40 .

[Kaidan Fan]

What was said by Hepler doesn't bother me in the least.  He said "could" and I honestly think he was just "joking" in his own way.  In my games it is "Shepard_lives" ending.  And I didn't pick destroy because Shepard lives, that is just icing on the cake, I picked it because that had been her goal for 3 games and "dead reapers is how we win this."  And quite honestly, the other two options imo are non-choices. period.  Would I have liked to have seen a slide with Shepard in the hospital with Kaidan/Garrus at her side, yes.  Am I going to be mad because I didn't get it? Nope.  

Modifié par Kaidan Fan, 16 juillet 2012 - 05:50 .