67443 réponses à ce sujet

[Aslanasadi]

I don't see it so strict. It always depends how you interpret this message. For me it was a sign that he still has feelings for my Shep.
I talked and discussed with others this message as well and some interpreted the letter different than I do. I respect that as well.
When I read the message it always makes me smile, because it's so Kaidan, telling you in a way that he loves you, without using the word and at the same time leaving the backdoor open to escape, when there's no us anymore...Anyway in my case, it would have been cheating.
.

[Sialater]

Greer wrote...

Except it is cheating. Particularly when it comes to Kaidan. If it had been left at just Horizon, then no it wouldn't have been cheating. But his letter is what turns "moving on" into "unfaithfulness".

His letter basically says "I'm sorry, I was an idiot. There hasn't been anybody since you. I still want only you. But we're both in the middle of dangerous stuff neither one of us can talk about. Can we try "us" again when we're not both staring death in the face? But, you know, only if you want to, since I don't know how you feel and I don't want to push. P.S. I have faith in you."

Also? That bit about "That night meant everything to me"? The blatant subtext is "You meant everything to me". He's extending the olive branch that says (however hesitantly) "I love you and I want to try to make this work. To make us work.". So, yes. Moving on from the VS after you receive that letter most definitely is cheating.

No, it's not.  Meghan considers herself dumped and the letter was too little too late.  There is no other way to look at it for her.  She's not a forgiving person.  He HURT her on Horizon.  He ripped her heart out of her chest and danced on it.  She still loves him, but considers herself dumped.  

I have a Shep who couldn't move on,  but she, too, still considers herself dumped, she's just more inconsolable.

A damned e-mail doesn't make Horizon all better for either of them.  Sorry, no.  Your interpretation isn't the only one and it's not the "right" one.  We all have different interpretations of it.

Modifié par Sialater, 29 août 2011 - 01:24 .

[sapphyreelf]

That email is far too open for interpretation for there to be only one clear way any given character was meant to see it. You/your Shepard may see it as cheating, but to blantantly accuse all characters who think or act differently is rude and uncalled for. My Shepard was faithful, but that email didn't give her hope. It crushed her. Because it was more evidence of how her return back to life is not helping anyone. It's just causing more pain. And, for her, moving on wouldbe cheating. But that's for her. I'm not about to condemn and throw words around about other people's Shepards who are different and unique characters apart from mine.

[Enlil01]

 Hi guys, i'm new to the forum and i'm here just to show my support for Kaidan, who my Shepard fell in love so much time ago. I hope all we Kaidan fans can get our reward for spending Mass Effect 2 only staring at his picture and e-mail =P Go Kaidan! <3

[Sialater]

Enlil01 wrote...

 Hi guys, i'm new to the forum and i'm here just to show my support for Kaidan, who my Shepard fell in love so much time ago. I hope all we Kaidan fans can get our reward for spending Mass Effect 2 only staring at his picture and e-mail =P Go Kaidan! <3

Welcome, Enlil!

[Greer]

I never said it was wrong to cheat or move on or however you want to phrase it. If you/your Shep wanted to go try a different LI after that, then more power to you/her. I never said that wasn't okay.

What I said is that from the standpoint of Kaidan's character (I can't really speak to Ash's as I've never romanced her), it really is cheating on him.

[Sialater]

A) That's NOT what you said. You said, "Except it is cheating."

I disagree with that outlook, too. His letter was too ambiguous. I took it to mean he thought it was over, too.

[Greer]

A.) What I just said and what you said I said aren't contradictory. It is cheating, but I didn't say it was wrong to do under the circumstances. Which is what I just said I said.

B.) No, it really isn't all that ambiguous. Especially not when considered with the other evidence you get. The very first letter you get after Horizon is from the woman who asks you to find her brother and her son. She said the Alliance soldier stationed on Horizon gave her your contact information. The VS is the only Alliance soldier stationed on Horizon. So the VS trusts what you said enough to trust that you really are looking to stop the Collectors and pass that information on to a colonist who is desperately seeking help and information. Anderson also tells you that the VS confirms your report. The VS doesn't trust Cerberus. It doesn't mean they don't trust Shepard. That letter really is the VS reaching out and trying to see if whatever you had survived. You can choose to accept their offer or not, but that doesn't change what it is.

Modifié par Greer, 29 août 2011 - 02:27 .

[Sialater]

A) It is not cheating to move on.

Yes, it is ambiguous. His giving out Shepard's contact information is professional, not personal. Any information sharing was done on a professional level. Professionally, he might respect her, personally, he does not. Kaidan thinks Shepard faked her own death and lied to him for two years. The only personal contact she has with him otherwise is that letter which still leaves his "way out." It's what he does. He always has an escape plan.

[Ellyria]

 Throwing in my two cents here...

I don't think of it as cheating either (unless you romanced Liara, got a ME2 LI, hooked up with Liara in LotSB, and then didn't break it off with your ME2 LI). Kaidan's email sounds more like "If we survive this mess, we can try again, if you want to" not "Okay, you're alive, that means we're still together". My Shepard didn't romance anyone in ME2, but she's not really "staying faithful to Kaidan", it's more like she's waiting for the point where they can try again. After all, he had two years to move on, she didn't.

Modifié par Chylise, 29 août 2011 - 02:32 .

[Sialater]

Greer:

What I'm trying to say is this: You can interpret it how you want for your Shepard. Just stop trying to tell me how to interpret it for mine.

[Aslanasadi]

I think it's up to each of us what we want to believe. I have no problems with the point of view of others as long as I can keep my own.
My Shepard was hurt and angry after Horizon and would she have had the opportunity to kick his butt there, she would probably have done it in her first anger ;P (She has a little temper ^^). The letter calmed her and gave her hope, but that's just my point of view on it. And actually I enjoy to see all the different views. Some even make me think about my own, while I don't agree with others...In a way I think it's even great that we can interpret it in different ways, isn't it...

Modifié par Aslanasadi, 29 août 2011 - 02:56 .

[widowspeak]

Moving on to someone new after a breakup or the loss of a loved one is NOT cheating. Cheating, by it's very nature, is illicit and secretive, and done deliberately. Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

This? This has nothing to do with cheating, and I blame Bioware for bringing it into the conversation to begin with. Mature grownups know the difference, and to infer that any LI wouldn't understand the difference is imply they aren't mature. To me, that's just plain insulting.

EDIT: Taking Shep's "not quite dead yet" status out of the equation, by moving on to other people, they've pretty much declared they're not an item anymore.  If they then choose to discontinue the relationships they have cultivated during their hiatus, then that's fine; however, blaming either person for moving on at all when there was a gaping hole left where the other used to be would be pretty petty.  Double standards rarely do anyone any good.

Naturally, YMMV.

Modifié par widowspeak, 29 août 2011 - 03:02 .

[Sialater]

widowspeak wrote...

Moving on to someone new after a breakup or the loss of a loved one is NOT cheating. Cheating, by it's very nature, is illicit and secretive, and done deliberately. Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

This? This has nothing to do with cheating, and I blame Bioware for bringing it into the conversation to begin with. Mature grownups know the difference, and to infer that any LI wouldn't understand the difference is imply they aren't mature. To me, that's just plain insulting.

Like dying of an infection in the middle of a firefight?

[widowspeak]

Sialater wrote...

widowspeak wrote...

Moving on to someone new after a breakup or the loss of a loved one is NOT cheating. Cheating, by it's very nature, is illicit and secretive, and done deliberately. Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

This? This has nothing to do with cheating, and I blame Bioware for bringing it into the conversation to begin with. Mature grownups know the difference, and to infer that any LI wouldn't understand the difference is imply they aren't mature. To me, that's just plain insulting.

Like dying of an infection in the middle of a firefight?

*blink*

*blink*

Is that a reference to Tali and Kal'Reegar?

[Sialater]

widowspeak wrote...

Sialater wrote...

widowspeak wrote...

Moving on to someone new after a breakup or the loss of a loved one is NOT cheating. Cheating, by it's very nature, is illicit and secretive, and done deliberately. Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

This? This has nothing to do with cheating, and I blame Bioware for bringing it into the conversation to begin with. Mature grownups know the difference, and to infer that any LI wouldn't understand the difference is imply they aren't mature. To me, that's just plain insulting.

Like dying of an infection in the middle of a firefight?

*blink*

*blink*

Is that a reference to Tali and Kal'Reegar?

No, I just can't hear the phrase, "That's just insulting" any more without hearing Adam Baldwin's totally offended tone.  It makes me giggle.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I'm not going to die of an infection in the middle of a firefight, that's just insulting. - Adam Baldwin. Kal'Reegar. Legend.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 29 août 2011 - 03:09 .

[widowspeak]

Sialater wrote...


No, I just can't hear the phrase, "That's just insulting" any more without hearing Adam Baldwin's totally offended tone.  It makes me giggle.

So. . .the answer is sort of "yes," then?

Modifié par widowspeak, 29 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[Ellyria]

widowspeak wrote...

Moving on to someone new after a breakup or the loss of a loved one is NOT cheating. Cheating, by it's very nature, is illicit and secretive, and done deliberately. Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

I've never understood that metaphor. If someone put a cake in front of me because I wanted it, why wouldn't I be allowed to eat it? Especially if Kaidan jumped out of it. 

And is cheating considered a secret if everyone knows about it?

"Is a lie a lie, if everyone knows it's a lie?" - Dr. Gregory House

[Sialater]

widowspeak wrote...

Sialater wrote...

widowspeak wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Like dying of an infection in the middle of a firefight?

*blink*

*blink*

Is that a reference to Tali and Kal'Reegar?

No, I just can't hear the phrase, "That's just insulting" any more without hearing Adam Baldwin's totally offended tone.  It makes me giggle.

So. . .the answer is sort of "yes," then?

LOL, Just Kal'Reegar, not Tali, despite my avatar. 

Anyway... back to Kaidan. 

ETA:  Hope I fixed the quotes.

Modifié par Sialater, 29 août 2011 - 03:12 .

[widowspeak]

Chylise wrote...

widowspeak wrote...

Moving on to someone new after a breakup or the loss of a loved one is NOT cheating. Cheating, by it's very nature, is illicit and secretive, and done deliberately. Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

I've never understood that metaphor. If someone put a cake in front of me because I wanted it, why wouldn't I be allowed to eat it? Especially if Kaidan jumped out of it. 

And is cheating considered a secret if everyone knows about it?

"Is a lie a lie, if everyone knows it's a lie?" - Dr. Gregory House

As to the cake metaphor, I have yet to understand why it is interpreted as such, either. However, it seems to be universally understood, which is why I used it as I did.  And I'm with you about eating it, especially if Kaidan jumped out of it.

If everyone BUT the significant other who is being cheated on knows?  No, to me, it's still cheating.

If s/he knows, and let's it happen?  Well, there may be more going on there than we know.  They may have "rules" about physical vs. emotional fidelity. Or they may have an open relationship.  Or the alternative to staying in what could be seen as a crappy relationship might be worse.  When one does not know all the details, who can really say for sure what is going on?

Modifié par widowspeak, 29 août 2011 - 03:17 .

[jeweledleah]

adding my 2 cents in for what they are worth.  for Shepard to move on so quickly (and for Shep its only been weeks)  is.. well there are various reasons to explain it, but  the only reason that makes me go <_< is "oh it was just a one night stand, how dumb of him not to realize it"  I have a Shepard that moved on.  She was hurt greatly by Horizon and was even angrier after the letter.  I have a Shepard who was facepalming at her own words on Horizon untill the letter came in and then she went - ok, there's hope, we can fix this.

but the letter IS ambiguous.  its more ambiguous then Ashley's letter.  its Kaidan and his leaving a way out.  he cares. that's not in question.  but he doesn't know where he stands so he gives you this very vague letter that shows he cares but putting no pressure, asking for no commitments... in case you don't want to move on.  he's not obsessive like that.

cheating would be if you meet him in ME3, reconcile... and then continue relationship with your ME2 LI.  THAT is cheating.  what you have right now though?  in the immortal words of Ross

We were on a break!

Modifié par jeweledleah, 29 août 2011 - 03:17 .

[Caseshep]

Jenova65 wrote...
''You know, Alenko...... you're right.. I'm coming with you''
He would take her off in his Alliance shuttle right there and then...  Then he could take her in the shuttle....  (mind went somewhere else then, sorry, lol)

Yes, please!


I think that whether it is cheating or not, Kaidan will still be hurt. He may be understanding about it if you don't think of it as technically cheating, but still hurt since he sent the email and sort of expects him and Shep to work it out again. If you put yourself in his shoes, it took him all that time to mourn Shep and only two years later did he have drinks with another woman. Drinks, not sex.
Yet, after a short period of time in Shep's point of view, she goes and f**ks someone else. It seems a little impulsive to me..My cannon Shep wouldn't do that to Kaidan, and I have yet to decide if I want to make a double-romance Shep.
So in my opinion, even though it's not technically cheating, it's still hurting the other person. Which some people think Kaidan deserves...
And some Sheps are "impulsive" (I'm trying to say this in a non-negative way..passionate? man-eater? ) and if that's what they wanted to do, more power to them!

[FireEye]

widowspeak wrote...

Chylise wrote...

widowspeak wrote...

Trying to have one's cake and eat it too, if you will.

I've never understood that metaphor. If someone put a cake in front of me because I wanted it, why wouldn't I be allowed to eat it? Especially if Kaidan jumped out of it. 

As to the cake metaphor, I have yet to understand why it is interpreted as such, either. However, it seems to be universally understood, which is why I used it as I did.  And I'm with you about eating it, especially if Kaidan jumped out of it.

You can't keep the cake if you eat it.  That is, once you eat it, it's gone, and you no longer have it. 



... I have no Kaidan in a cake.  For shame. 

[widowspeak]

Caseshep wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...
''You know, Alenko...... you're right.. I'm coming with you''
He would take her off in his Alliance shuttle right there and then...  Then he could take her in the shuttle....  (mind went somewhere else then, sorry, lol)

Yes, please!


I think that whether it is cheating or not, Kaidan will still be hurt. He may be understanding about it if you don't think of it as technically cheating, but still hurt since he sent the email and sort of expects him and Shep to work it out again. If you put yourself in his shoes, it took him all that time to mourn Shep and only two years later did he have drinks with another woman. Drinks, not sex.
Yet, after a short period of time in Shep's point of view, she goes and f**ks someone else. It seems a little impulsive to me..My cannon Shep wouldn't do that to Kaidan, and I have yet to decide if I want to make a double-romance Shep.
So in my opinion, even though it's not technically cheating, it's still hurting the other person. Which some people think Kaidan deserves...
And some Sheps are "impulsive" (I'm trying to say this in a non-negative way..passionate? man-eater? ) and if that's what they wanted to do, more power to them!

And you've hit it on the head right there: To you, it seems impulsive. Your Shep wouldn't do that. What most of us are saying is exactly that: Our Sheps see it as "XYZ."  To say that "oh, it's cheating, and there's no other way to look at it," is false.  It is deliberately left ambiguous because Bioware wants us to be able to write out own Shepards. 

(BTW, I don't see "impuslive" as a necessarily negative or imflammatory way of describing those actions.  No worries. )

EDIT: I agree, though, that it will probably hurt Kaidan, regardless of the "why."  Was never disputing that part.  Sorry if I implied, somehow.

Modifié par widowspeak, 29 août 2011 - 03:37 .