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Major Kaidan Alenko in ME3: We're going to need a bigger boot.


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#62176
blmlozz

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Mimitochan wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

welp.... finished my unmomded ME3/Levithian Play though.

Dis-liking the dialog between the catalyst post DLC.. or a lot of the conversation with VI.. a lot of the 'questions' were answered with LOD.. so it all doesn't make too much sense now.

Otherwise, if wobbling chins, weepy eyes and tightening throat are indicators, unmoded is exactly 3.3234 times better than modded play through. Everything just seems more important and meaningful when all you have is a handful of time with Major-hot stuff.
 
 


Oh so you like your unmodded mShep PT better in the end?? You seemed rather sad about it earlier on.
I'm happy for you Posted Image


For as many 'cutzie' couple things that you can see Shep & Kaidan do Modded is clearly > unmoded.


Unmoded however... FAR more romantic. FAR more realistic. FAR more rewarding. The problem is, you can't understand that fully until the EC almost, and by then it's over :/ 

Kaidan and Shep in moded just happen to be a sexy couple that do kinda quirky things together.

Kaidan and Shep in unmoded are two friends that, over the years develop a relationship, build trust and eventually fall for each other as the world comes to the end, and just as Kaidan finally breaks his barriers down, Shep leaves him--again I might add.

It makes it even worse that typically Kaidan surpresses his emotions... unless Shepard is involved. His pouty face @ the beam just threw me over the hill in unmoded where it didn't do anything for me in moded.

Same scene, completly different reactions.. Weird. 

Modifié par blmlozz, 04 septembre 2012 - 10:27 .


#62177
Mimitochan

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Kunari801 wrote...

call in revenge sex for Kaidan hurting me on Horizon (even though we weren't dating). 


Revenge sex is usually a bad idea in my book Posted Image
But maybe not in your Shep's Posted Image

#62178
Doodle

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Mimitochan wrote...

I LikeTo Doodle wrote...

I'm making a renegon shepard who will bang Liara, remain faithful (aww Paragon much) say how he still cares for her... THEN BAM! Cheats on her with Kaidan...

oh this will feel good >:)


Ahahah, why you so mean to Liara? Posted Image
Poor thing...


Don't judge my soon-to-be-called-Commander-Doodle-Shepard D:

#62179
blmlozz

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News Flash; EVGA approved my GTX680 step up 1 day after I finish my ME3 play though =.=''

I'm making a renegon shepard who will bang Liara, remain faithful (aww Paragon much) say how he still cares for her... THEN BAM! Cheats on her with Kaidan...

oh this will feel good >:) 

Hmmmm.. I would suggest Romancing Kaidan and Liara for the elusive love triangle scene... choose Liara of course, but then bounce back to Kaidan to 'rekindle' the flames after Liara turns out to be an abuser? Ehh?? >:D


also, am I late to the party or did you people miss Andrew's new work?

Posted Image


good fic followed;
http://andrewartwork.tumblr.com/ 

Modifié par blmlozz, 04 septembre 2012 - 10:24 .


#62180
Doodle

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blmlozz wrote...

News Flash; EVGA approved my GTX680 step up 1 day after I finish my ME3 play though =.=''

I'm making a renegon shepard who will bang Liara, remain faithful (aww Paragon much) say how he still cares for her... THEN BAM! Cheats on her with Kaidan...

oh this will feel good >:) 

Hmmmm.. I would suggest Romancing Kaidan and Liara for the elusive love triangle scene... choose Liara of course, but then bounce back to Kaidan to 'rekindle' the flames after Liara turns out to be an abuser? Ehh?


Male shepard Posted Image

#62181
blmlozz

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I LikeTo Doodle wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

News Flash; EVGA approved my GTX680 step up 1 day after I finish my ME3 play though =.=''

I'm making a renegon shepard who will bang Liara, remain faithful (aww Paragon much) say how he still cares for her... THEN BAM! Cheats on her with Kaidan...

oh this will feel good >:) 

Hmmmm.. I would suggest Romancing Kaidan and Liara for the elusive love triangle scene... choose Liara of course, but then bounce back to Kaidan to 'rekindle' the flames after Liara turns out to be an abuser? Ehh?


Male shepard Posted Image


:P I don't know.. I think t3h mods may be worth it in this case. I don't think it would disrupt much of anything since you would be with liara which have established lines.. but either way is in good fun. Have you seen that scene? It's halarious 'can't I have you both?' 
LOL. 

#62182
devSin

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blmlozz wrote...

Same scene, completly different reactions.. Weird.

I don't know that it's weird. Same scene, but completely different relationships.

I would never do the modded romance. For me personally, much more is lost than gained. I happen to be a fan of exactly what we got, strangely enough.

blmlozz wrote...

also, am I late to the party or did you people miss Andrew's new work?

Posted Image

good fic followed;
http://andrewartwork.tumblr.com/

Nope, Andrew posted it many pages back.

Not that reposting his drawings can ever be a bad thing. ;-)

#62183
Doodle

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I did youtube that scene... and i'm not going through all that hassle to mod my xbox file..

#62184
Mimitochan

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blmlozz wrote...
For as many 'cutzie' couple things that you can see Shep & Kaidan do Modded is clearly > unmoded.

Unmoded however... FAR more romantic. FAR more realistic. FAR more rewarding. The problem is, you can't understand that fully until the EC almost, and by then it's over :/

Kaidan and Shep in moded just happen to be a sexy couple that do kinda quirky things together.

Now now now, don't forget that you're talking about my Shenko here (and the only one i'll ever experience), though i understand what you mean by that.

They're just different arcs, different relationships, i would never go as to compare them in terms of romantic value.
It's just something i don't do to oppose different ME love interests, thus certainly not something i will do to oppose modded (straight) vs. unmodded (gay) Kaidan romance.

But i'm genuinely happy for you. I'm glad that Kaidan is just as lovely to you as he is to me. That's what i wanted to know.

Kaidan and Shep in unmoded are two friends that, over the years develop a relationship, build trust and eventually fall for each other as the world comes to the end, and just as Kaidan finally breaks his barriers down, Shep leaves him--again I might add.

It makes it even worse that typically Kaidan surpresses his emotions... unless Shepard is involved. His pouty face @ the beam just threw me over the hill in unmoded where it didn't do anything for me in moded.

Same scene, completly different reactions.. Weird.


I've said it before, to me, the evac scene is totally useless to straight Shenko, and even, cheapening the London goodbyes. From what i've heard, it indeed plays out totally differently for you.

#62185
Kunari801

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Mimitochan wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...
call in revenge sex for Kaidan hurting me on Horizon (even though we weren't dating). 

Revenge sex is usually a bad idea in my book Posted Image
But maybe not in your Shep's Posted Image


IRL, yes revenge sex is a bad idea.  That's why with the mod, I made a new "Canon Shep".  I agree with Blmlozz below that an un-modded mShenko PT is more touching, wonderful, and ultimately bittersweet.  My heart has to go with a Kaidan LI in ME1.  


blmlozz wrote...

Kaidan and Shep in unmoded are two friends that, over the years develop a relationship, build trust and eventually fall for each other as the world comes to the end, and just as Kaidan finally breaks his barriers down, Shep leaves him--again I might add.

It makes it even worse that typically Kaidan surpresses his emotions... unless Shepard is involved. His pouty face @ the beam just threw me over the hill in unmoded where it didn't do anything for me in moded. 


I agree, it's such a touching and very precious romance arc for male Shepard & Kaidan in a un-modded PT.  Probably the best love story in all of Mass Effect.  The unrequited desire in ME1, where both were too shy to express their real feelings, to the fight in ME2, and the ultimate relationship in ME3.  

However, it's too heart wrenching for me. Too sad, and too tragic, to think of Kaidan loosing Shepard once again. I couldn't do that to Kaidan but there is (almost) nothing that you can do in ME3 to prevent him from loosing Shepard a second time.  Lucky for me Destroy is my first choice reguardless and my Shep can return to Kaidan. 
Mass Effect isn't Shakespeare and it shouldn't try to be,

I didn't want to be that depressed at the end of ME3 and yet, even with the EC, I still am.

Modifié par Kunari801, 04 septembre 2012 - 10:56 .


#62186
Mimitochan

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devSin wrote...

blmlozz wrote...

Same scene, completly different reactions.. Weird.

I don't know that it's weird. Same scene, but completely different relationships.

I would never do the modded romance. For me personally, much more is lost than gained. I happen to be a fan of exactly what we got, strangely enough.


I like how you think.
My point, in fact.

Posted Image

Oh well. Goodnight.

#62187
Doodle

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goodnight Mimi

#62188
Kunari801

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Mimitochan wrote...

I've said it before, to me, the evac scene is totally useless to straight Shenko, and even, cheapening the London goodbyes. From what i've heard, it indeed plays out totally differently for you.


The evac scene is precious either way for me either modded or not. 

Good night! 

Modifié par Kunari801, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:03 .


#62189
blmlozz

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I don't know that it's weird. Same scene, but completely different relationships.

I would never do the modded romance. For me personally, much more is lost than gained. I happen to be a fan of exactly what we got, strangely enough.

at first it was just to be noesy and maybe a little bit because I didn't like the idea of missing out on Bioware romance arc's.. especially one of the better one's they've done just because they ran out of time or got lazy.

Now though..I would agree with your assessment. Much more is lost than gained by modding. I would venture to say that it may even ruin it for people that have not played through modded before and are playing for the first few times.

I did youtube that scene... and i'm not going through all that hassle to mod my xbox file..

I keep forgetting you're on XBOX.. modding anything is a hassell where as on the PC it's a minute operation.

Now now now, don't forget that you're talking about my Shenko here (and the only one i'll ever experience), though i understand what you mean by that. 

They're just different arcs, different relationships, i would never go as to compare them in terms of romantic value.
It's just something i don't do to oppose different ME love interests, thus certainly not something i will do to oppose modded (straight) vs. unmodded (gay) Kaidan romance.

But i'm genuinely happy for you. I'm glad that Kaidan is just as lovely to you as he is to me. That's what i wanted to know.


First, thanks, it's why I keep comming back to this group to post to be honest... the rest of the BSN has lost my interest infact..

Second,
I did not at all mean it to be a comparison of skenko vs mshenko at all. The only way to  fully put context to what I was trying (and failed) to say would probably be to live as a gay man for a while. To give it a try though I would start by saying, IRL... I have had a relationship form in the same way that unmoded shep and Kaidan do..so it feels more real, it feels more genuine. Moded Mshep and Kaidan almost seems as fictional as their bad textures would allude to. Totally different experience. Fshep and Kaidan arc works better in that it's more believeable. A Mshep and Kaidan moded arch, even set in a enviroment such as ME where sexuality seems to be of no concern doesn't feel as correct. Part of the blame for that is the way our society (still) is today, some of that is the way I was brought up, and some of it is that it's almost impossible to forget completly that this isn't a video game, so this all compromises what would otherwise be a very nice relationship.

There's more tragity and sacrafice in the unmoded romance is what I'm saying I suppose. That's what my own relationships have provided me, so it hits closer to home. That's all.

I've said it before, to me, the evac scene is totally useless to straight Shenko, and even, cheapening the London goodbyes. From what i've heard, it indeed plays out totally differently for you. 

I have seen the Fshep london scene. You're 100% accurate. You're also accurate on the mshep side. It works much better IMO. Cheapens may be a poor choice of words, I believe that since fshep and Kaidan have had more time to mature with one another they may have grown more than mshep and Kaidan, but , going back to that sacrafice and tragity part--- the Mshep arc is so short that you're forced to bottle everything up and have 1/3 of the opportunity to express your feelings on the matter. So it tends to hit harder. 

I agree, it's such a touching and very precious romance arc for male Shepard & Kaidan in a un-modded PT.  Probably the best love story in all of Mass Effect.  The unrequited desire in ME1, where both were too shy to express their real feelings, to the fight in ME2, and the ultimate relationship in ME3.  

However, it's too heart wrenching for me. Too sad, and too tragic, to think of Kaidan loosing Shepard once again. I couldn't do that to Kaidan but there is (almost) nothing that you can do in ME3 to prevent him from loosing Shepard a second time.  Lucky for me Destroy is my first choice reguardless and my Shep can return to Kaidan. 
Mass Effect isn't Shakespeare and it shouldn't try to be, 

I didn't want to be that depressed at the end of ME3 and yet, even with the EC, I still am.

Ugh.. yes, yes and yes.

To be quite honest, ME1 and ME2 were a grind, the Fight on Horizon likely sparked the most emotion when Kaidan said loosing you was like loosing a limb, but still I had him pegged in 'FRIEND ZONE' and mostly because I knew there was no opportunity.. conversely, when ME3 kicked in, all the ME1/ME2 stuff came chugging back up, it all started to surface in the dialog and then on the citadel, and then when he mentions I was so focused in my work back then I realized uhh... YEAH I was focused on just completing the mission and forgot that I was clicking away for this <3


Still... I found myself teary eyed when I went to bed, my datapad did not update with the Post EC hospital visit mail :( 

Modifié par blmlozz, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:25 .


#62190
devSin

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Kunari801 wrote...

However, it's too heart wrenching for me. Too sad, and too tragic, to think of Kaidan loosing Shepard once again. I couldn't do that to Kaidan but there is (almost) nothing that you can do in ME3 to prevent him from loosing Shepard a second time.  Lucky for me Destroy is my first choice reguardless and my Shep can return to Kaidan.

But how does modding the romance in the first game change this dynamic? Kaidan still loses you (and then you get to head-canon whatever you can force yourself to believe after the ending).

Is it just the sense that it's unrequited almost until it's too late? That it would have been easier if it never came to the surface, to have it snuffed out so soon?

Kunari801 wrote...

I didn't want to be that depressed at the end of ME3 and yet, even with the EC, I still am.

I feel you.

I just don't play the game. That's how I cope with how unsatisfying it ultimately feels. :(

Even in Leviathan, I mostly just skipped through the longer conversations. Maybe someday I'll have the fortitude to go through the whole thing again, although I'm afraid of all these moments losing their impact by that time.

Kunari801 wrote...

The evac scene is precious either way for me either modded or not.

It worked for me as well.

I acknowledge the many (and there are so many) problems with it, but I like it anyway.

Modifié par devSin, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:25 .


#62191
Kunari801

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devSin wrote...
But how does modding the romance in the first game change this dynamic?... 

Is it just the sense that it's unrequited almost until it's too late? That it would have been easier if it never came to the surface, to have it snuffed out so soon? 


I don't know, it just does.  Mod'ing the romance let's me believe they had more time between ME1 and ME2 which helps dull the pain.  

Perhaps it was that my first PT was an un-modded Shep and the pain of that leaked into the relationship. By the time I did a modded PT I had built up some head-canon to temper the pain.  

Modifié par Kunari801, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:26 .


#62192
Kunari801

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devSin wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

The evac scene is precious either way for me either modded or not.

This and the memorial scene are my favorites in the extended cut.

Despite all the problems with both of them (and there are so, so many), they just worked for me, when I was in the moment, playing through the ending.


The EC provided more emotional closure yet the logic errors remain, yet the fact remains, "Emotion trumps logic".  You see that in just about any political ad, most advertisements, and in the EC.

Even now I think the Evac is the best scene in ME3, even though it opened a new logic error.  

#62193
blmlozz

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But how does modding the romance in the first game change this dynamic? Kaidan still loses you (and then you get to head-canon whatever you can force yourself to believe after the ending).

Is it just the sense that it's unrequited almost until it's too late? That it would have been easier if it never came to the surface, to have it snuffed out so soon?

The difference is the time they have together essentially. In modded they have Illos, they have the email Sabarge did the V/O for saying that he still cares for you but needs time, they have the modded ME3 scenes, all of this is absent in unmoded naturally. In moded Mshep and Kaidan have had enough time together that when it ends in ME3 they 'had a good run' They had an opportunity to tell each other how they felt. 

In unmoded.. you've given much less time, and the relationship does not fully come to fruition until the last few hours, it's the culumination of years of repressed feelings that a galatic ending event bring out. That there probably isnt going to be a tomorrow so 'why the heck have they waited so long to do this? '

As for the notion that it may have been better to not surface at all, hmmm.. I would have to say the good stuff that is there displaces some of that anxiety and guilt felt twoard the end, certinally not a lot, but I think what BW was trying (and failed miserably) to say was that all good things eventually come to an end. Maybe there wasn't enough good in the arc to justify the end being that there was such little time between the two, but would rather there be nothing at all? Not a chance I'll take my teary eyes to go, kthxbie.  

I don't know, it just does.  Mod'ing the romance let's me believe they had more time between ME1 and ME2 which helps dull the pain 

I swear I totally didn't read your post before writing the above >_> 

The EC provided more emotional closure yet the logic errors remain, yet the fact remains, "Emotion trumps logic". You see that in just about any political ad, most advertisements, and in the EC.

Even now I think the Evac is the best scene in ME3, even though it opened a new logic error.

agreed. 1000%. Honestly any logical errors are completely blocked out by emotions at that point. They could have had the Normandy blow Harbinger out of the sky with a single thanx shot and I probably would have managed a 'Hell yeah'!


Even in Leviathan, I mostly just skipped through the longer conversations. Maybe someday I'll have the fortitude to go through the whole thing again, although I'm afraid of all these moments losing their impact by that time.

Don't beat yourself up. There was absolutely no reason to play a Levithian DLC past the acutal DLC. I think I remember ONE extra line with the Catalyst?  Everything else was identical. To the point that as I previously said, a lot of the pre-DLC content didn't make sense. Shepard knows who the reaper creators are.. so why is he asking the catalyst where he came from, or why doesn't he mention this to the V/I...ect. 

Modifié par blmlozz, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:47 .


#62194
dstrawberrygirl

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Oh juicy conversation, jumping in...

I had a male shep that was with Liara in 1, Tali in 2, but Liara was all "so I understand you had something with Tali, but we're still together and so special together and we were made to be together, weren't we!" and Shep had to let her down like a sack of potatoes "Actually, no we're not" - her response of "oh" is priceless.

re: dumping Garrus - I'm gonna put that in the same boat as Thane grief. Anyone who romanced Thane gets a completely insensitive crew. A friend of mine had Thane die then very shortly afterwards did the Citadel date only to have Kaidan making moves "hey, he's dead, you're available!" - she found that insensitive and I have to agree... Garrus romance is adorable, I love his ME3 arc, the interactions with him seem more like a real and long-running established relationship. Dumping him and having him hook up with Tali just like that? Yeah, I'd be a bit grumpy.

Kaidan, of course, is the traditional romance for a femshep, the will-they won't-they, we-were-on-a-break, you-died-and-worked-for-cerberus relationship angst with a big payoff.

For a male shep? Although I've not done a male shep + Kaidan romance, I can see how unmodded would be a really sweet marathon build up of tension before they finally realize how much they were meant to be together... I have a male shep playthrough I'm struggling through slowly, but when the time comes... will he stay with Tali? probably, but it won't be an easy choice. Between Kaidan and male shep - I found the tension on Horizon was amazing, and the moments on the Normandy in ME1 - there was some definite chemistry. Depends on how it feels at that point... takes me ages to get into a male playthrough! I wouldn't have considered it if I didn't hang out here on this forum with so many folks who have played that arc and loved it.

#62195
blmlozz

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You know... when the GTX680 gets here, I wonder... I've never done a Jane Shep P/T.... hmmm.

#62196
Doodle

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I've only got 1 playthrough and his name is Commander Shepard!

who is apparently a Bi-omnisexual. heh heh heh

#62197
devSin

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blmlozz wrote...

In unmoded.. you've given much less time, and the relationship does not fully come to fruition until the last few hours, it's the culumination of years of repressed feelings that a galatic ending event bring out. That there probably isnt going to be a tomorrow so 'why the heck have they waited so long to do this? '

Ah, so it is the sense of them finally "finding" each other only to have it be just before the very end?

I can understand that. I don't know if I would find one more tolerable than the other, though, but I didn't bring my female Shepard (with the ME Kaidan romance) into ME3 (I haven't actually brought any Shepard into ME3 beyond the first one I played through with), so it's possible I'd feel the same way.

blmlozz wrote...

Don't beat yourself up. There was absolutely no reason to play a Levithian DLC past the acutal DLC. I think I remember ONE extra line with the Catalyst?  Everything else was identical. To the point that as I previously said, a lot of the pre-DLC content didn't make sense. Shepard knows who the reaper creators are.. so why is he asking the catalyst where he came from, or why doesn't he mention this to the V/I...ect.

Oh, I've seen the child's mewling, don't worry. :-)

It's clear that this DLC was written for the original ending, not the extended cut conversation with the brat (which is problematic by itself—they were seriously going to charge for this exposition, with the original ending providing none whatsoever?).

But I was pleased to hear that Cathleen did a lot of work for Leviathan. There's a lot of good content in the actual mission, and the nonsense ending can't take away from that.

#62198
blmlozz

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Ah, so it is the sense of them finally "finding" each other only to have it be just before the very end?

yes.

I can understand that. I don't know if I would find one more tolerable than the other, though, but I didn't bring my female Shepard (with the ME Kaidan romance) into ME3 (I haven't actually brought any Shepard into ME3 beyond the first one I played through with), so it's possible I'd feel the same way.

Both are Tolerable. One simply allows 'the feels' to be spread evenly over a 120hour experience. The other forces you to release the same amount of 'feels' within the scope of 20-30hours. 

The expression 'a flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long' comes to mind. 
 

But I was pleased to hear that Cathleen did a lot of work for Leviathan. There's a lot of good content in the actual mission, and the nonsense ending can't take away from that.

oh I agree absolutely, the dance that's continued to be played even in light of Levithian doesn't take away from the fact that it was a very good DLC, probably only second to LOTSB and that's *only* because Liara get's a smoochy scene... hard to top a kick-ass DLC AND sexy-time, infact the only DLC that will top it is more of the same imo. Changing the paragraph's worth of dialog would have been icing on the cake though and would have given actual support for the rumors I had heard that it changed the ending.. technically it did, if you can call 1 sentence in a whole cluster**** a change.

Modifié par blmlozz, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:03 .


#62199
devSin

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blmlozz wrote...

If you're not a patient person, it's not tolerable.

To wait for Kaidan?

I don't have an issue with that (to me, it's part of their story—it is the relationship, not the delay until you get to the relationship). But I don't know if I'd find it less emotional playing through the story with a Shepard who romanced him in ME (the chance that I'll ever bring any other Shepard through ME3 is pretty much nonexistent, however, so it's largely moot).

blmlozz wrote...

oh I agree absolutely, the dance that's continued to be played even in light of Levithian doesn't take away from the fact that it was a very good DLC, probably only second to LOTSB and that's *only* because Liara get's a smoochy scene... hard to top a kick-ass DLC AND sexy-time.

I think there were problems with the level and encounter design, which is what keeps me from saying it's better than Overlord.

It's either just below or tied with Overlord. LotSB still is the best, both because it offered the most engaging experience and because it brought some actual new twists to the gameplay (Leviathan's investigation mostly plays like an enhanced version of the LotSB crime scene).

But I enjoyed all the dialogue, and I thought most of the writing was superb. And it has squadmate dialogue, both during and after the missions, which helps it to integrate with the main game better than most of the other DLC (and the new content for the squad alone is worth the $10 to me).

Modifié par devSin, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:24 .


#62200
blmlozz

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I don't have an issue with that (to me, it's part of their story—it is the relationship, not the delay until you get to the relationship). But I don't know if I'd find it less emotional playing through the story with a Shepard who romanced him in ME (the chance that I'll ever bring any other Shepard through ME3 is pretty much nonexistent, however, so it's largely moot)

I see... If I were completly honest, I would have to admit that my moded shep playthrough went through the OE fiasco, and by EC I had probably;
A) replayed too many times so that the initial effect wore off
and
B) was still upset that I had to wait a few months for EC, so by that time it was 'meh'

unmodded was far enough down the line that I was playing through refreshed(and had played all 3 games in a row), so the EC + the scenes with Levithian + my own RL experiences + not having an avenue for Kaidan & shep other than the stuff in ME3 combined to at least make it feel more intense.

I will say this, in my moded playthrough, I still cried in the London scene, then I was mostly just angry pre EC. Post EC I was just in it for the cut-scenes, the emotional attachment had long since past, which makes me very sad to think about acutally, that I can become acustom to loss enough that it doesn't bother me..


A 100% unbiased evaluation is likely going to be very hard. I would need to wait another month or two before trying another moded playthrough and in all honestly, the 90-120hours of game time are harder to come by, so it may not happen. 


edit; ToP! 
Everyone have some spicy shimmy birthday cake! 
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also.. don't know why.. but I <3 young Kaidan and Shep.. maybe because I'm 24? idk.. 
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Modifié par blmlozz, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:29 .