67437 réponses à ce sujet

[Flaine1996]

I see what you mean. You make an interesting point.

I wouldn't necessarily call her ruthless myself, either, but she felt like a different person to me. Hearing her quoting her mother - yes, I did notice - was really odd for me, I guess. But it wasn't just that. She was a kid to me in ME1, a little kitten somehow wielding a pistol. (And I don't mean it in a bad way.) Then she went from "I would prefer lengthier studies and fewer explosions," to hunting down the Shadow Broker on her own, being unusually resourceful, not looking back when Shepard fell off a building, etc. I don't know what it was exactly, but I felt change. If anything, she felt like a stranger to me. (It might be because she was written by different people in ME1 and ME2.) I've also never really blamed her for crying. I sure as hell don't know what was going on with her during those two years, but to me she seemed strained more than anything. I agree that "ruthless" is not a word I'd describe her with.

As for telling Kaidan, I agree. I think that, because I like them both, my biggest worry would be that I'd do more damage to their friendship than... well... anything else, just to get it off my chest. I mean, would that be selfish or...? I don't know. But on the other hand, I think romanced Kaidan deserves an explanation and I could see myself wanting to talk about it, as well. It wasn't a small thing that Shepard went through. Not in the slightest. And perhaps Kaidan would take it better somehow broken down from Shepard after all. I suppose that, if I were Shepard, I'd first think long and hard about whether and how to go about it. I guess it wouldn't be a decision I'd make in a day. But I know I'd want to because... hell, when do we get to talk about Shepard's death, resurrection and stuff around it? When do we get to explain ourselves? Pretty much never. I still don't know what the point of killing Shepard off in ME2 was if it's nothing but brushed off until that short moment towards the end of ME3.

I agree with mikefest that ruthless really doesn't describe liara but maybe she learned how to threaten thru wrex and renegade shep... Idk her crying sometimes comes inappropriately? Though i thought she was crying at the lair of shadow broker bcuz she was relieved its all over? But i dont remember since i played a week ago and just restarting ME2 so will check it out again xD Also really not cool how they brushed of sheps death with a I got better... Right... U just get better after death... Sure y not let's roll with it =.=

[fraggle]

Though i thought she was crying at the lair of shadow broker bcuz she was relieved its all over?

 

That's how I always took it I actually like the scene, too. I don't mind seeing characters cry at all, haha.

[Flaine1996]

That's how I always took it I actually like the scene, too. I don't mind seeing characters cry at all, haha.

Me neither tho in appropriate times xD also wouldn't mind watching protagonist break down from time to time though I'd rather be in control when that happens >.>

[Monica21]

That's how I always took it I actually like the scene, too. I don't mind seeing characters cry at all, haha.

Yeah, that's how I took it. I think she even says, "It's finally over." Or something like that.

[Vanilka]

I agree with mikefest that ruthless really doesn't describe liara but maybe she learned how to threaten thru wrex and renegade shep... Idk her crying sometimes comes inappropriately? Though i thought she was crying at the lair of shadow broker bcuz she was relieved its all over? But i dont remember since i played a week ago and just restarting ME2 so will check it out again xD Also really not cool how they brushed of sheps death with a I got better... Right... U just get better after death... Sure y not let's roll with it =.=

 

Yeah, I also thought it was just relief. She must have been holding it together all that time and then it was finally over. I'm not surprised she cried. She was still just a civilian. She was never trained for these things.

 

I thought the "I got better," was pretty funny. I love messing with bad guys. However, it's different to tell this to Nassana - I sure as hell wouldn't try to get therapy from somebody like her - and to feel that you need to talk about it with your friend or partner. I like playing my Shepard as a person that feels that she needs to stay strong for her crew and doesn't allow herself to show weakness in front of them, but even with such a character I think she'd eventually need somebody who'd understand what she'd gone through because she's still just a human being. I guess that's why I love ME3's bed scene so much because that's one point of the game where Shepard can express worry and insecurity and the love interest is there for her and comforts her. I know it might not be everybody's cup of tea, but in that scene, to me Shepard is less of a brick and more of a person and her relationship with her love interest has meaning. It would be cool to get a little more of this. I'm not saying the game needs to be all about Shepard dealing with her emotional booboos, but with heavy topics like death and resurrection I'd expect her to question her existence and have some sort of feelings about it to some extent - the dialogue wheel would give us options on whether to play a hardass or whether to confess Shepard's feelings, etc., so that nobody would be forced to "whine".

[Flaine1996]

Yeah, I also thought it was just relief. She must have been holding it together all that time and then it was finally over. I'm not surprised she cried. She was still just a civilian. She was never trained for these things.

I thought the "I got better," was pretty funny. I love messing with bad guys. However, it's different to tell this to Nassana - I sure as hell wouldn't try to get therapy from somebody like her - and to feel that you need to talk about it with your friend or partner. I like playing my Shepard as a person that feels that she needs to stay strong for her crew and doesn't allow herself to show weakness in front of them, but even with such a character I think she'd eventually need somebody who'd understand what she'd gone through because she's still just a human being. I guess that's why I love ME3's bed scene so much because that's one point of the game where Shepard can express worry and insecurity and the love interest is there for her and comforts her. I know it might not be everybody's cup of tea, but in that scene, to me Shepard is less of a brick and more of a person and her relationship with her love interest has meaning. It would be cool to get a little more of this. I'm not saying the game needs to be all about Shepard dealing with her emotional booboos, but with heavy topics like death and resurrection I'd expect her to question her existence and have some sort of feelings about it to some extent - the dialogue wheel would give us options on whether to play a hardass or whether to confess Shepard's feelings, etc., so that nobody would be forced to "whine".

I quite agree its not like I want shep to whine every single step xD its just well in mass effect 2 its like it wasn't a big deal... Though I loved it when she just shrugs it off but there comes a point where it just seems comical? Though I love all 3 games and mass effect 3 definitely was the most emotional...

[themikefest]

Yeah, I also thought it was just relief. She must have been holding it together all that time and then it was finally over. I'm not surprised she cried. She was still just a civilian. She was never trained for these things.

That's one of the reason's why I wouldn't of made her a squadmate

[Flaine1996]

That's one of the reason's why I wouldn't of made her a squadmate

 

Atleast she knows how to hold a pistol >.> but yeah i really dont think its a smart idea bringing her around when there really is a high percentage of her getting shot and killed during ME1... Maybe wrex or shep taught her how to fight and thats why she can kick ass in ME2? 

[themikefest]

Atleast she knows how to hold a pistol >.> but yeah i really dont think its a smart idea bringing her around when there really is a high percentage of her getting shot and killed during ME1... Maybe wrex or shep taught her how to fight and thats why she can kick ass in ME2? 

No. She has no experience at all. My Shepard wouldn't waste time training her. Shepard has more important things to worry about. Like stopping Saren and finding a way to stop the reapers.

 

The only way to have her as a squadmate is to change her background. Just have her spend time in the asari military for a few decades and then after leaving she decided to study the protheans.

[aoibhealfae]

I fairly reason that Shepard in ME2 is cold, reserved and more stoic because she knew she was being watched 24/7 by all Cerberus personnel and the fact that she's only alive because TIM wanted her to do something nobody else can (i.e: destroy the Collectors and get more reaper tech). The problem with ME2, the game is written for the benefit of others. Shepard's story is secondary while the companion-focused writing clearly wanted you to feel more emotionally invested with your squadmates because one wrong move, you're going to lose them all... (This is where I find Dragon Age 2 as more balanced in telling the main character's personal story while also invested with the companion's story as well... which is bad for roleplay....)
 

I think most of Shepard's personal issues was resolved in between the six month on Earth. Jennifer Hale did well when she narrate Genesis 2 DLC. She said everything happened so fast and so much has happened and she was finally able to have all the time for herself. I like how she referred sadly to the time she spent with Kaidan as "perfect.... while it last". I like how a faithful Shepard sounded more focused and the narrative became skewed with ME2 romance included.... like, your crew just got kidnapped and you still have time to do some romancing? Besides, you're going to come out alive, you're not going to die again, there's no rush to get laid like it was your last day together!

 

In ME3, there's some sense of urgency especially with new romances. Everyone hook up because the world are going to end... seems legit.

[Flaine1996]

No. She has no experience at all. My Shepard wouldn't waste time training her. Shepard has more important things to worry about. Like stopping Saren and finding a way to stop the reapers.

 

The only way to have her as a squadmate is to change her background. Just have her spend time in the asari military for a few decades and then after leaving she decided to study the protheans.

 

This would actually make more sense... To bad they wanted to go with the naive route and have her go all doe-eyed and well... innocent? >.> Not that I dont like Liara i just found her meeeh most of the time... But having an asari commando or someone from the asari military wouldve been an interesting perspective... Yah definitely agree with you...

 

I fairly reason that Shepard in ME2 is cold, reserved and more stoic because she knew she was being watched 24/7 by all Cerberus personnel and the fact that she's only alive because TIM wanted her to do something nobody else can (i.e: destroy the Collectors and get more reaper tech). The problem with ME2, the game is written for the benefit of others. Shepard's story is secondary while the companion-focused writing clearly wanted you to feel more emotionally invested with your squadmates because one wrong move, you're going to lose them all... (This is where I find Dragon Age 2 as more balanced in telling the main character's personal story while also invested with the companion's story as well... which is bad for roleplay, I think....)
 

I think most of Shepard's personal issues was resolve in between the six month on Earth. Jennifer Hale did well when she narrate Genesis 2 DLC. She said everything happened so fast and so much has happened and she was finally able to have all the time for herself. I like how she referred sadly to the time she spent with Kaidan as "perfect.... while it last". I like how a faithful Shepard sounded more focused and the narrative became skewed with ME2 romance included.... like, your crew just got kidnapped and you still have time to do some romancing? Besides, you're going to come out alive, you're not going to die again, there's no rush to get laid like it was your last day together!

 

In ME3, there's some sense of urgency especially with new romances. Everyone hook up because the world are going to end... seems legit.

 

True... Though in ME2 you didnt really know whether you were going to come out of it alive they did drill in your head most of the time that its a suicide mission yada yada yada XD so probably took it as, "Oh last chance to get laid." aside from that totally agree on how shep would react as cold, stoic and always watching her back cuz she doesnt trust cerberus after what they did during ME1... In my perspective atleast

[aoibhealfae]

No. She has no experience at all. My Shepard wouldn't waste time training her. Shepard has more important things to worry about. Like stopping Saren and finding a way to stop the reapers.

 

The only way to have her as a squadmate is to change her background. Just have her spend time in the asari military for a few decades and then after leaving she decided to study the protheans.

 

If I was to rewrite ME1, I would have merged Liara and Shiala together. Made her into an Asari commando and properly trained by her mother's people but she became estranged with her mother but Saren used her to control Benezia and make it easier for her mother to become indoctrinated. Then Saren trade her with the Thorian and she gained the Prothean cipher as well, thus making her a genuine prothean expert.

 

And I think it would have worked if she replace Samara place in ME2, Liara becoming more ruthless after the death of her mother and the cipher making her insane so she turned to the code and become a Justicar...wait.. this sound more like bad fanfiction...

[Flaine1996]

If I was to rewrite ME1, I would have merged Liara and Shiala together. Made her into an Asari commando and properly trained by her mother's people but she became estranged with her mother but Saren used her to control Benezia and make it easier for her mother to become indoctrinated. Then Saren trade her with the Thorian and she gained the Prothean cipher as well, thus making her a genuine prothean expert.

 

And I think it would have worked if she replace Samara place in ME2, Liara becoming more ruthless after the death of her mother and the cipher making her insane so she turned to the code and become a Justicar...wait.. this sound more like bad fanfiction...

 

Not that bad actually.... Wouldn't mind reading it just to see how'd liara act as a justicar.... But atleast with this set up she would be useful in the normandy rather than being a sort of prothean expert civilian just hanging around my ship >.>

[themikefest]

If I was to rewrite ME1, I would have merged Liara and Shiala together.

I've read posts from people mentioning this. I would prefer having Shiala on the squad instead of Liara. Merging both together would work.

[Vanilka]

That's one of the reason's why I wouldn't of made her a squadmate

 

I must agree. She still could've been a character and a part of the crew, especially since she has her place in the story, but I'd rather keep her on the ship because dragging a civilian through military assignments and expecting her to keep up with highly trained combatants like Shepard doesn't seem wise no matter how you look at it.

[Vanilka]

I think my problem with Shepard in ME2 is that she's a brick. Don't take me wrong, I mostly like her a lot and I'm also not talking about getting all emotional, especially not in front of the Cerberus crew, but the truth also is that I don't feel like there are many ways I can shape my character through the dialogue wheel besides the paragon/renegade spectrum. I think it didn't hurt anything when Liara came to visit her on the ship and you could express anger, hope, or worry. I don't think it hurt when we could decide who/what they're going to drink on with Dr Chakwas. I also don't think it hurt when Shepard gazed at the portrait of her ME1 love interest before launching the suicide mission. And I think it also wouldn't hurt if she had an option to tell Kaidan, if romanced, that she was scared out of her wits that the Collectors might have taken him because everybody was getting abducted left and right and he was among them. I think that would be a fairly normal human reaction so I think it would be cool for it to be on the dialogue wheel instead of just three ways to say "meh". But I guess that may be just my personal tastes.

 

I'm mostly okay with Shepard being stoic and composed. I like playing that kind of character, but I think that sometimes it's just not going to cut it in a roleplaying game. When you have to headcanon all your character's development, including a lot of interaction with other characters, because you have very few options to do that in the game, it can get frustrating. (Having to ask Jack, "You sure it was Cerberus?" was nasty considering my Shepard is a Cerberus experiment survivor as well and I had no other choice to progress or exit the dialogue.) But, well, that's at least my experience. I don't think people should be forced to develop their character one way or another or forced to be emotional, I don't think the character should be predefined for us, but it's good to have more than little to no options. All that before what everybody refers to as a "suicide mission" and that a lot of the crew believe they might not return from alive or return from at all. There's talk about not knowing whether they'll even be able to safely go through the Omega relay. (Which is pretty dumb that they didn't even try to test it somehow first, but whatever.) So it all very much feels like these might be their last days. That's also the reason why the squadmates are trying to find closure for their own business.

 

(I actually headcanon Shepard being in a pretty bad mental state at the beginning of ME3 instead because after all that crap in ME2, finally having time to ponder what Cerberus did to her, feeling like she achieved very little with the Reapers still being on their way, she killed over 300,000 people just to delay those bastards and even though she knew she had no choice, she still felt like some sort of terrorist. Sure, she's capable of pulling her own weight as always, but things like that my Shepard wouldn't easily come to terms with. Not even after Mindoir. If anything, her background made things look even worse. I imagine many would suspect her from just getting her revenge by destroying that batarian colony. I'm perfectly fine with headcanoning all this, but e.g. being able to tell Liara "Honestly? I'm tired," and such certainly helps to shape my character in a way that is visible in the game.)

[Flaine1996]

I think my problem with Shepard in ME2 is that she's a brick. Don't take me wrong, I mostly like her a lot and I'm also not talking about getting all emotional, especially not in front of the Cerberus crew, but the truth also is that I don't feel like there are many ways I can shape my character through the dialogue wheel besides the paragon/renegade spectrum. I think it didn't hurt anything when Liara came to visit her on the ship and you could express anger, hope, or worry. I don't think it hurt when we could decide who they're going to drink on with Dr Chakwas. I also don't think it hurt when Shepard gazed at the portrait of her ME1 love interest before launching the suicide mission. And I think it also wouldn't hurt if she had an option to tell Kaidan, if romanced, that she was scared out of her wits that the Collectors might have taken him because everybody was getting abducted left and right and he was among them. I think that would be a fairly normal human reaction so I think it would be cool for it to be on the dialogue wheel instead of just three ways to say "meh". But I guess that may be just my personal tastes.

 

I'm mostly okay with Shepard being stoic and composed. I like playing that kind of character, but I think that sometimes it's just not going to cut it in a roleplaying game. When you have to headcanon all your character's development, including a lot of interaction with other characters, because you have very few options to do that in the game, it can get frustrating. (Having to ask Jack, "You sure it was Cerberus?" was nasty considering my Shepard is a Cerberus experiment survivor as well and I had no other choice to progress or exit the dialogue.) But, well, that's at least my experience. I don't think people should be forced to develop their character one way or another or forced to be emotional, I don't think the character should be predefined for us, but it's good to have more than little to no options. All that before what everybody refers to as a "suicide mission" and that a lot of the crew believes they might not return from alive or return from at all. There's talk about not knowing whether they'll even be able to safely go through the Omega relay. (Which is pretty dumb that they didn't even try to test it somehow first, but whatever.) So it all very much feels like these might be their last days. That's also the reason why the squadmates are trying to find closure for their own business.

 

(I actually headcanon Shepard being in a pretty bad mental state at the beginning of ME3 instead because after all that crap in ME2, finally having time to ponder what Cerberus did to her, feeling like she achieved very little with the Reapers still being on their way, she killed over 300,000 people just to delay those bastards and even though she knew she had no choice, she still felt like some sort of terrorist. Sure, she's capable of pulling her own weight as always, but things like that my Shepard wouldn't easily come to terms with. Not even after Mindoir. If anything, her background made things look even worse. I imagine many would suspect her from just getting her revenge by destroying that batarian colony. I'm perfectly fine with headcanoning all this, but e.g. being able to tell Liara "Honestly? I'm tired," and such certainly helps to shape my character in a way that is visible in the game.)

 

Agree especially the part between the gap of ME2 and ME3 since my shepard had the mindoir and torfan background so it really looked like she killed all those 300,000 batarians out of vengeance... Which may or may not be true >.> This is particularly why I headcannon alot of stuff since we have quite limited choices in game. but atleast we still had choices... and as u said I really wanted to have more options in expressing or defining my character... particularly agreeing with jack about hijacking the ship and high tailing out of there but if we did that we wouldnt have the ME2 game, now would we XD.... 

[Vanilka]

I am sorry for all the off-topic. As an apology, have Kaidan lurking in the background and generally looking pretty for no reason whatsoever...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

... because who needs to focus on what Hackett's saying? Not me, apparently.

[Flaine1996]

I am sorry for all the off-topic. As an apology, have Kaidan lurking in the background and generally looking pretty for no reason whatsoever...
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 
... because who needs to focus on what Hackett's saying? Not me, apparently.

Sweet Jesus that stare *swoon* don't worry wasn't paying attention to jacket either I mean how can I ohohoho xD

[Monica21]

I am sorry for all the off-topic. As an apology, have Kaidan lurking in the background and generally looking pretty for no reason whatsoever...

 

 

 

Who taught you to salute, soldier? A pyjack?

 

But no seriously, I agree with just about everything in these last few posts. I never take Liara anywhere with me in ME1 except for Noveria, and I'm reconsidering that on my next playthrough because it's reasonable that her emotional state would make her more of a liability.

 

As for Kaidan, the conversation on Horizon is just awful. I mean, you say basically nothing meaningful so it's no surprise he's upset. Just about anything would have been better than what we got, if you wanted to stay faithful to him. You could have at least told him that you asked Anderson where he was, but nah.

[Flaine1996]

Who taught you to salute, soldier? A pyjack?
 
But no seriously, I agree with just about everything in these last few posts. I never take Liara anywhere with me in ME1 except for Noveria, and I'm reconsidering that on my next playthrough because it's reasonable that her emotional state would make her more of a liability.
 
As for Kaidan, the conversation on Horizon is just awful. I mean, you say basically nothing meaningful so it's no surprise he's upset. Just about anything would have been better than what we got, if you wanted to stay faithful to him. You could have at least told him that you asked Anderson where he was, but nah.

The conversation on horizon was such a derp moment for shep it's incredibly funny if it weren't sad and only time u get to see kaidan >.> I chalk it up to sheps inability to say the words she wants to say :\ but that's my shep >.>

[Vanilka]

Who taught you to salute, soldier? A pyjack?

 

 

Hey, this is the Alliance, nobody can freaking salute.

 

 

[Monica21]

Hey, this is the Alliance, nobody can freaking salute.

 

 

 

LOL

 

The first time I saw that I thought, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LEFT HAND?!"

[Vanilka]

LOL

 

The first time I saw that I thought, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LEFT HAND?!"

 

AND THEN HE SWITCHES IT THE VERY NEXT SECOND 

[Flaine1996]

AND THEN HE SWITCHES IT THE VERY NEXT SECOND 

Yahp freaked me out XD thought he magically switched his arm while shep wasn't looking