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[Jenova65]

TeenZombie wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

@YayCookies, why do you hate Alabama?

Because most people generalize Alabamians.

She's from Alabama, she's entitled to form an opinion about the place she lives.  I think it's pretty normal to dislike where you are, at least occasionally, especially if you're young and want to get out into the world.

I was just curious and making conversation..........  I am from Nottingham and though I love being *from* there, I have no desire to live there ever again... 

I was just responding to RAF1940, who seemed to imply that YayCookies wasn't speaking from her own experience.  I grew up on the upper West Side of Manhattan, which is a great neighborhood, but by the time I was eighteen, I wanted to get out of NYC really, really badly.  I think it's natural, the grass is always greener and all that.

Jenova65 wrote...

Well, I love Carth and don't get me wrong here, he is great character, but he did............ moan.... a bit

My problem was that he started mistrusting the PC way too early in the game.  After the big reveal, yeah, he has a very good point.  On Taris, or the first few planets, it's heavy handed, the way he emphasizes not trusting you.  He's your superior officer, why should he be so suspicious without good cause?  

And to bring this back to Kaidan, I hope there aren't ongoing trust issues in ME3.

I did figure that, but just wanted to clarify that I know nothing about Alabama so wouldn't know what RAF1940 would be referring to anyway  Especially as someone who feels no desire to be in her hometown...

I agree with you on Carth, it was a bit of an overload for a character we were just getting to know, heck we are just getting to know who WE are in the game, lol...
I don't think there will be, Kaidan knows how to move on and when it is clear to him what Shepard was doing, I think he will put it all behind him, that would seem most in-character for my perception of Kaidan, at least... 

[Jenova65]

Talie A Marks wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Talie A Marks wrote...

Don't ever tell your parents that.  My little guy has had a "machine gun" laugh since he fiqured out how to.  I am sooo a horrible parent.  And my hubby is so much worse then I am.  Still can't help but love the guy.  He and Kaidan are kind of similar in their looks, and he's all mine.

Well, my mum is dead (but she would have laughed, she was pretty cool and played some games, not like Mass Effect, only like Tetris) she died nearly two years ago.... And my father plays games (he is 74) like Sims and NFS and so on 
Not to mention at 45 people tend not to question you as much  My eldest son is 20 and my daughter is 17, the little one is just 29 months  So anyone trying it on would be sent away with a flea in their ear 

Sorry to hear about your mother's passing. But your dad, there will never be a day I get my father to do that.  Apparently, 77 is too late to play "friolous" games.

Thank you...
Too old, eh? I'd better tell mine he only has another 3 years to game then 

[Talie A Marks]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

So, theres a thread about how the VS should be punished for what they said to Shep on Horizon? People really hold a grudge lol

Oh, god, there's another one? I keep popping up in these threads and presenting the (apparently ridiculous) idea that both the VS and Shepard were right to be upset, that neither acted in a particularly adult manner, and that each should apologize to the other, a la:

VS: "Hey, Commander, sorry about how I acted on Horizon."
Shepard: "No worries, I get it. Sorry I didn't explain things."
VS: "It's okay. It was just, you know. Cerberus."
Shepard: "Man, tell me about it. Eff those guys. Just be glad you didn't have to work with them."

I hope the agrument goes something like this.

Kaidan "You can't bring people back from the dead.  If you could, it would be sick, wrong and insane!"

Shep "Yeah, and which one of those doesn't describe Cerberus?
Kaidan ":blink:.  Back from the Dead?  But, but, but..."

Shep "Yeah, I don't exactly believe it either.  Would have been nice to have someone try and explain it to me after they review the files who has more of a background in medicine."  Glares at Kaidan.  "But, I've seen it one to many times now and I'm not sharing.":sick:  Stomps away.

Kaidan chases after her to the loft to..."discuss" it further.

You can't make up in this case in one argument.  But in a second one immediately trapped in the Loft with Kaidan.  Who decides he isn't going anywhere.  :OWell,...you know.  I, mean you can't lock him out.  He could hack his way through anything.

Modifié par Talie A Marks, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Fault Girl]

I really want to tell Kaidan that it was Liara gave Shep's body to Cerberus

*evil laugh*

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 10 septembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[Talie A Marks]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I really want to tell Kaidan that it was Liara gave Shep's body to Cerberus

*evil laugh*

Part of me wants to, but I'd much rather yell at her myself.


Edit.

@Jenova65 Not too old, just too "retired".

Edit, Part Duex.

Can you imagine introducing him to Miranda?

Shep "You know that thing we were discussing yesterday, last night, and five minutes ago.  Well, this is Miranda.  She was the project director."  Stands back to watch explosion fight.   Yeah, my Shep's a little evil.  There will be much"disccusion" on the Normandy at her instigating.  

And then, Kelly comes in feeds the fish in the middle of a romantic interlude.

Kaidan:  "Ahh, Shep...who was..ah..that?  We in the middle of...?  Why would...?"

Shep: " That's Kelly the spy...psychologist.  She's a bit of a perv and I haven't figured out who she's spying for yet.  'Sides, that's nothing.  Kasumi's in the corner. Tactical cloak. Where were we..."

Kaidan:

Kasumi: "Just protecting, Shep.  She needs a shadow.  Please continue."

Shep: "Thanks, Kasumi."

Kaidan: "Shep, I can't... you know... with an audience."

Shep: " I suppose now would be a bad time to tell you EDI isn't a VI...and Joker's probably seen everything.":whistle:

Kasumi: " So, have I.  All five times."

Modifié par Talie A Marks, 10 septembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Jenova65]

Talie A Marks wrote...

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I really want to tell Kaidan that it was Liara gave Shep's body to Cerberus

*evil laugh*

Part of me wants to, but I'd much rather yell at her myself.


Edit.

@Jenova65 Not too old, just too "retired".

ROFL

I want to do both, I want to yell at Liara and tell Kaidan

[DarkPsylocke26]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I really want to tell Kaidan that it was Liara gave Shep's body to Cerberus

*evil laugh*

Shepard said, "Kaidan I have something to tell you."
Kaidan asked, "What is it Shepard?"
Shepard answer, "Liara gave my body to Cerebrus that is how I end up with them, and I back then I should have told you that I didn't trust Cerebrus either. Now let's really moving on."
Kaidan said, "I agree."

[shepskisaac]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I really want to tell Kaidan that it was Liara gave Shep's body to Cerberus

*evil laugh*

Hopefully, he pulls Vyrnnus on her when he hears it

[ChaplainTappman]

Shepard: "...apparently the Collectors picked up my corpse from the wreckage. Or the Shadow Broker did, and was selling me to them. I don't know."
Kaidan: "So, wait. How'd your body end up with Cerberus?"
Shepard: "Oh, Liara gave me to them."
Kaidan: "What?"
Shepard: "I know, right? I guess they hired her to get me back from the Collectors? She was kind of vague about that part."
Kaidan: "Why would she do that?"
Shepard: "Cerberus told her they could bring me back to life, and she believed them. Liara's sweet, but... she's not the brightest star in the galaxy. But I'm alive because of her, so I guess I can't be too upset."
Kaidan: "I guess. Still, what the hell."
Shepard: "I know."

[Caseshep]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Shepard: "...apparently the Collectors picked up my corpse from the wreckage. Or the Shadow Broker did, and was selling me to them. I don't know."
Kaidan: "So, wait. How'd your body end up with Cerberus?"
Shepard: "Oh, Liara gave me to them."
Kaidan: "What?"
Shepard: "I know, right? I guess they hired her to get me back from the Collectors? She was kind of vague about that part."
Kaidan: "Why would she do that?"
Shepard: "Cerberus told her they could bring me back to life, and she believed them. Liara's sweet, but... she's not the brightest star in the galaxy. But I'm alive because of her, so I guess I can't be too upset."
Kaidan: "I guess. Still, what the hell."
Shepard: "I know."

Too true.
I think Kaidan will be torn between feeling grateful to Liara and being passively angry (for Horizon-like reasons). Same as my Shep feels.

Modifié par Caseshep, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:08 .

[ChaplainTappman]

Shepard: "So let me get this straight. They told you they could bring me back from the dead. Something that, as far as you knew, was scientifically impossible. And you believed them?"
Liara: "Yes."
Shepard: "You believed what Cerberus told you. Cerberus, a terrorist group. An organization that by definition lies. You believed them?"
Liara: "Yes."
Shepard: *rubbing his temples* "Woman, you are a hundred years old. I need you to not be stupid."
Liara: "What? They told the truth."
Shepard: *facepalm*

[Chignon]

Not the brightest star in the galaxy? Liara is a doctor, a Prothean expert, former information broker and now the Shadow Broker. She didn't get where she is by not being the "brightest star in the galaxy".

Can't we appreciate Kaidan without knocking on other characters?

[ChaplainTappman]

Scholarly education and common sense are not the same thing. Examples abound of Liara seriously lacking the latter. That's what I was referring to.

[jeweledleah]

Liara made the choice becasue she thought it was the best thing at the time. lets see - what choices did she have? leave Shepard in Shadow broker's hand and who knows what collectors would do to it, try to get it back and return for burial.. or... pursue a slim possibility of bringing Shepard back to life. Yes, Cerberus is... questionable. but they tell her, they beleive that reapers are a threat. they tell her - they need Shepard to fight that threat. they tell her, that they might bring Shepard back.

the only real mistake that I could honestly blame her for is not telling Shepard's confidants. Kaidan/Ashley, Anderson. but she explains that too.. she was afraid. afraid of the reaction she would get. the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but what she did - was not stupid. not even close to it.

P.S. Kaidan might yell at her for not telling him and then hug her from giving him Shepard back.

[Caseshep]

Chignon wrote...

Not the brightest star in the galaxy? Liara is a doctor, a Prothean expert, former information broker and now the Shadow Broker. She didn't get where she is by not being the "brightest star in the galaxy".

Can't we appreciate Kaidan without knocking on other characters?

I took that to mean naivety. As she was in ME1, until she changed drastically in ME2. Not an insult to her intelligence. You can be very naive and still very intelligent.

[Chignon]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Scholarly education and common sense are not the same thing. Examples abound of Liara seriously lacking the latter. That's what I was referring to.

Ah, yes.

Your quote:

Shepard: "Cerberus told her they could bring me back to life, and she believed them. Liara's sweet, but... she's not the brightest star in the galaxy. But I'm alive because of her, so I guess I can't be too upset."

Liara recovered Shepard's body, she saw the chance Cerberus represented and she took that chance. Not to mention that she succeeded. So, how again is she stupid? Because there was a lack of options for her?

Edit

The quote clearly referrs to her intelligence, Caseshep. Or it would've been worded differently.

Modifié par Chignon, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:24 .

[Caseshep]

"Cerberus told her they could bring me back to life, and she believed them."

But that precedes it. And trusting a terrorist organization seems more like naivety or lack of common sense to me. Not IQ.

[Chignon]

And what was she supposed to do instead? There was no other option if she wanted to succeed in bringing back Shepard. Noone else had the kind of technology required but Cerberus.

[jeweledleah]

Shepard WORKS with cerberus the entire game. why? becasue shepard has no other choice. so why is it ok for Shepard and not considered to be stupid, bot for Liara to take a chance, the only chance out of all her options that I'm SURE she considered... is somehow naive and stupid? she knows full well that it was a risk. she knows full well what cerberus is. its why she was afraid to tell anyone what she did. that and the possibility of the Lasarus project - failing. but she also knew that if she didn't try? she would fail by default. in ME1 when you go to Ilos? she is the one that says - we have to try making that landing zone. its dangerous. its risky. but what have you got to lose at that point?

[Caseshep]

I'm not discrediting what she did, since, yes, it worked out, and my Shep is sort of glad that it did. But I'm also saying it was a little naive to trust Cerberus in the first place, since if Shepard had been in Liara's shoes, I don't think he/she would have trusted Cerberus.

Edit: @jeweledleah I do think Shepard was "stupid" in ME2. I wish there would have been another option besides going with Miranda and Jacob. But that's the way the game goes.

Modifié par Caseshep, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Saberchic]

Liara is not stupid or naive. She knew that handing Shep over to Cerberus was sketchy at best, but with the limited options she had (and what was happening to Shep's body), she took the only option she felt she had.

[ChaplainTappman]

As the guy who wrote it, I'm just going to mention that I was talking about her being naive.

It might make sense in hindsight, but looking at it objectively, it was a naive and irrational decision. There's no reason for someone to believe that they have the capacity to do what is considered to be scientifically possible.

[Chignon]

I ask you again: how exactly was the decision naive and irrational when she literally had no other choice? It wasn't like she wandered up to Cerberus's headquartes and let tIM, Miranda & Co. have at it.

[jeweledleah]

Caseshep wrote...

I'm not discrediting what she did, since, yes, it worked out, and my Shep is sort of glad that it did. But I'm also saying it was a little naive to trust Cerberus in the first place, since if Shepard had been in Liara's shoes, I don't think he/she would have trusted Cerberus.

Edit: @jeweledleah I do think Shepard was "stupid" in ME2. I wish there would have been another option besides going with Miranda and Jacob. But that's the way the game goes.

you are assuming that she actualy trusted Cerberus. I'm assuming that she chose the lesser evil.  kinda like Shepard.  Shepard was cleverly set up by Cerberus.  I'm still pretty darned sure that TIM had goasl that went beyond destroying collectors.  however - they WERE a threat.  and a choice was - do nothing?  or do something.  I'm sure Liara understood that neither Ashley nor Kaidan would try to save Shepard at that cost.  Alliance wouldn't spend 2 years and bajilion of credits, rebuilding 1 person.  so it was up to her, to chose a gray option.

you know when you meet Wrex on Tuchanka and he cleverly manipulates you into helping him get rid of the thorn in his side?  Sure the whily old lizard uses you, but at same time?  that thread had to be dealt with, one way or another.  Sometimes... you cannot avoid the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situations.  its not stupid to work with the limited options you have. 

[Chignon]

jeweledleah wrote...

you are assuming that she actualy trusted Cerberus. I'm assuming that she chose the lesser evil.  kinda like Shepard.  Shepard was cleverly set up by Cerberus.  I'm still pretty darned sure that TIM had goasl that went beyond destroying collectors.  however - they WERE a threat.  and a choice was - do nothing?  or do something.  I'm sure Liara understood that neither Ashley nor Kaidan would try to save Shepard at that cost.  Alliance wouldn't spend 2 years and bajilion of credits, rebuilding 1 person.  so it was up to her, to chose a gray option.

Exactly.

Edited for ToP

Modifié par Chignon, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:43 .