67443 réponses à ce sujet

[Caseshep]

She had the choice to not bring Shepard back at all. Cerberus would have gotten the body some other way.

BioWare wrote it that way for some reason. For drama, for giving Liara more depth, whatever, but that means we're allowed to have an opinion on how we, as Shepard, or how we think Kaidan will feel about it. You can love Liara for it, hate her for it, or be begrudgingly grateful. And to me, "begrudgingly grateful" goes with feeling that Liara was a bit naive.

[Chignon]

What a great choice if the premise is saving Shepard.

I'm not begrudging your opinion. I do however think it's unnecessary and counterproductive for the thread if other LIs and squadmates are talked badly about.

[ChaplainTappman]

Liara was approached by an organization that Shepard (at least my Shepards) is diametrically opposed to, a group that Shepard spent significant effort in combating. And they told her that they were going to do something that is, and I cannot stress this enough, not scientifically possible as far as the entire galaxy knew. And she believed: a, that they did not have nefarious motives, and b, that the could do something that is impossible. That is naive. The fact that Cerberus was telling the truth, that they did being Shepard back, is irrelevant, because we're talking about Liara's decision, not the result. Liara made a decision based on emotion. It was not a rational decision; it was irrational.

Chignon wrote...

I'm not begrudging your opinion. I do however think it's unnecessary and counterproductive for the thread if other LIs and squadmates are talked badly about.

I understand that, I really do. And I agree wholeheartedly with you, to a point. There were a number of posts about ten pages back to the effect of "WAAHHH Kaidan can die! They should kill Garrus and Tali and everyone who isn't Kaidan!" That was unproductive.

But with what I wrote, we're talking about roleplaying. I (and thus my Shepards) think that Liara is a little lacking in common sense, and made a naive decision handing Shepard's body over to Cerberus. I'm thankful it ended well, and that her actions gave me the opportunity to continue the fight against the Reapers, but that doesn't change the fact that I think her choice was a little naive.

Modifié par ChaplainTappman, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:57 .

[widowspeak]

Trying to catch up, but damn, this morning sickness sure makes it tough.  Been ill twice today already.   (Thanks to all the well wishers, btw.  Can't remember everyone by name just now, but I appreciate it, regardless.)

To me, Kaidan's (and in some playthroughs, Ashley's) behavior on Horizon was justified by one thing: There was no way of knowing if all members of Cerberus (and their known associates) had been Indoctrinated somehow.  (That's my theory, anyway.  Ask most of my friends; I've felt HORIZON WAS ALL A PLOT! for quite some time now. >.>) 

Did it still suck to be on the receiving end?  Oh, yes, indeedy, it did suck.  However, given time to cool off, my Sheps (male and female) have all come to terms with the idea that there was more going on at Horizon than just what met the eye.

As to the subject of Liara giving Shep's remains to Cerberus. . .I've always seen her behavior as more hopeful than naive.  She knows from experience they have massive amounts of influence and reach, as well as any number of different types of scientists and researchers on the payroll.  If anyone could actually find a way to bring a human being (note that I specified the race; human-centric organization would probably have a better shot at HUMAN resurrection, but suck at, say, asari ressurection, and vice versa) back from the dead, it would be someone under their influence.

Modifié par widowspeak, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[Saberchic]

Liara knew. She says when you question her: "And when I gave you to Cerberus, I told myself I was doing it for you. For a chance to bring you back. But I knew Cerberus would you use for their own business. And I let it happen. Because I couldn't let you go."

Here's the video. Go to 1:40 to see it

Is she a bit obsessed with Shep? Sure. My 1st femShep was a little creeped out by that; she was, after all, in love with Kaidan. But it was not a lack of common sense or intelligence that drove Liara to do it. People were after Shep's body. The Shadow Broker had it and was going to give it to the Collectors. What other choice did she really have?

[Chignon]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Liara was approached by an organization that Shepard (at least my Shepards) is diametrically opposed to, a group that Shepard spent significant effort in combating. And they told her that they were going to do something that is, and I cannot stress this enough, not scientifically possible as far as the entire galaxy knew. And she believed: a, that they did not have nefarious motives, and b, that the could do something that is impossible. That is naive. The fact that Cerberus was telling the truth, that they did being Shepard back, is irrelevant, because we're talking about Liara's decision, not the result. Liara made a decision based on emotion. It was not a rational decision; it was irrational.

Wrong. It's far more complex than that. Liara and Feron are trying to escape an attack of Blue Sun mercs.

While escaping, they run into Miranda and two Cerberus operatives, who tells them they have the same goal (looking for Shepard) and want to work with Liara. Feron tells Liara about Cerberus's human-centric agenda and only care that Shepard is human, but Liara insists that as long as they share the common goal of saving Shepard, it should be all right.
Miranda brings Liara to the Illusive Man, who tells Liara that the Collectors want the corpse, and have hired the Shadow Broker to give it to them. The Illusive Man wants Liara to find out why the Collectors want Shepard's body, and to get it before they do. Liara wonders why he chose her, and the Illusive Man tells her that "nothing beats someone with a personal motive driving them". Liara does not trust Cerberus or the Illusive Man, but tells him that Shepard can count on her.

Source

She is against Cerberus, but takes a chance for Shepard and only Shepard. And I can't stress this enough: There was no other choice for her if she wanted to rescue and rebuild Shepard but Cerberus. Much like Shepard had no other choice in ME2.

Modifié par Chignon, 10 septembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[jeweledleah]

Chignon and Saber said everything I wanted to say. as ambivalent as I am about Redemption, mostly due to art style - it does explain Liara's motivations. and they are NOT naive. She doesn't trust Cerberus. but she takes a chance, because to her - slim chance is better then no chance. I

[Jenova65]

*Not the Liara thread*

[Chignon]

Jenova65 wrote...

*Not the Liara thread*

Ah, but it was alright to discuss Alabama a few pages back? I'll  keep that in mind.
 

Modifié par Chignon, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:12 .

[Saberchic]

Jenova65 wrote...

*Not the Liara thread*

Good point. Though I could not sit idly by while another character was being wrongly maligned.

Here's to getting us back on track.

snuggle time

edit: spelling!

Modifié par Saberchic, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:15 .

[ChaplainTappman]

Jenova65 wrote...

*Not the Liara thread*

Whateva whateva, I do what I want. I do hoodrat things with my friend what smokes with cigarettes.

Seriously though, I didn't mean to turn this into the Liara thread for a couple pages. I was just trying to illuminate my (and possibly Kaidan's) feelings on the circumstances surrounding Shepard's return. Apologies abound.

[Chignon]

To get back on topic, here's some new fanart:

http://www.tumblr.co...0k8ioc8a1qjbf0m

Art by tonku



Art by jakface

[Jenova65]

Oh dear, lol........... I'm not going to get into an argument, goodness me, that was a little petty... I asked a question of another forum member...
Let's not do this, it belittles us all..........

[Chignon]

Fair enough, Jenova. We can drop it.

[Jenova65]

Anyway............
Kaidan thread........... What do you think happened on that single date he had with citadel doc?
Dinner, drinks, a movie... how do you imagine it playing out?

[NamiraWilhelm]

Hopefully it ended because he was distant, with her but not really with her, thinking of Shep

[Chignon]

I don't think anything happened except for drinks and picking at food.

Kaidan confesses that his friends talked him into it and that to me indicates that his heart wasn't really into it. The doctor and Kaidan probably had one of these really uncomfortable conversations with a lot of pauses and searching for a topic.

Modifié par Chignon, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:26 .

[ChaplainTappman]

Jenova65 wrote...

Oh dear, lol........... I'm not going to get into an argument, goodness me, that was a little petty... I asked a question of another forum member...
Let's not do this, it belittles us all..........

I was being sarcastic with my "hoodrat stuff" line when I responded to you. I really didn't mean to turn it into an argument over Liara, it just sorta spitballed in the way the internet does, and I really am sorry it did that.

To demonstrate how sorry I am, allow me to repay the thread in the universal currency of the internet- kitten pictures:

[Caseshep]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

*Not the Liara thread*

Whateva whateva, I do what I want. I do hoodrat things with my friend what smokes with cigarettes.

Seriously though, I didn't mean to turn this into the Liara thread for a couple pages. I was just trying to illuminate my (and possibly Kaidan's) feelings on the circumstances surrounding Shepard's return. Apologies abound.

There is no need to apologize. Part of roleplaying is discussing and understanding how you, as Shepard, and Kaidan, as the love of yourShep's life, feel about scenarios and other people.
I thought that type of thing is what constitutes as an intelligent discussion.

But thanks for the kitten pictures anyway.

Modifié par Caseshep, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:32 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

I hope Biowares not capable of writing in an arsey 'triangle' with the Doctor...

[Chignon]

I don't think that'll happen, Namira. It sounded like a one time thing. Not to mention that there's enough possible drama if Shepard chose to move on with one of the ME2 LIs.

[Jenova65]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Oh dear, lol........... I'm not going to get into an argument, goodness me, that was a little petty... I asked a question of another forum member...
Let's not do this, it belittles us all..........

I was being sarcastic with my "hoodrat stuff" line when I responded to you. I really didn't mean to turn it into an argument over Liara, it just sorta spitballed in the way the internet does, and I really am sorry it did that.

To demonstrate how sorry I am, allow me to repay the thread in the universal currency of the internet- kitten pictures:

Kittens are always welcome as far as I'm concerned... do you have kittens with Kaidan? 

[ChaplainTappman]

Jenova65 wrote...
Kittens are always welcome as far as I'm concerned... do you have kittens with Kaidan? 

My Shepards always have ship's cats. You know, to control the rat population. And also because cats are awesome.

I actually rescued those two the other day. I went to take my trash out before going to work, and some **** had left them in a cardboard box in front of the dumpster.

[nranola]

Speaking of the doc, I snapped this a good while back and thought it was funny:



Sneak peek into the future? xP

[ChaplainTappman]

nranola wrote...

Speaking of the doc, I snapped this a good while back and thought it was funny:

*snip*

Sneak peek into the future? xP

And then, murder.

EDIT: ToP: I like this pic I found on DA:

Modifié par ChaplainTappman, 10 septembre 2011 - 07:41 .