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[Chaos715]

I think that he proved he can make the tough calls when he followed his orders on the Normandy and left Shepard. I don't think anything could be worse for him than that, except maybe having to make that decision again.

Modifié par Chaos715, 12 septembre 2011 - 01:32 .

[jeweledleah]

Caseshep wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My question: Why do you think Kaidan would make a good Spectre? I just personally think he maybe too Paragon to make the hard calls...what do you guys think?

Excellent question!
Kaidan would be an extremely capable Spectre, I think. He is a powerful biotic, psychologically stable, and has a great deal of military training and combat experience. He's dealt with rough times on his own and he was with Shepard when s/he made tough calls, so I think he would be prepared to handle the rough stuff. Not to mention everything he has been through during the two years Shepard was gone, which I'm assuming we'll find out more about in ME3.

Saying he is too Paragon kind of discredits all Paragon Shepards...My Shep is Paragon and she is a damn good Spectre. Spectres seem like a Renegade subclass on their own since they only answer to the Council, but there has to be different levels of morality inside that "Renegade class," meaning a Paragon, like Kaidan, would be at the high morality end of the Spectres. I think that makes him less likely to go rogue.

this.

[Golden Owl]

Caseshep wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My question: Why do you think Kaidan would make a good Spectre? I just personally think he maybe too Paragon to make the hard calls...what do you guys think?

Excellent question!
Kaidan would be an extremely capable Spectre, I think. He is a powerful biotic, psychologically stable, and has a great deal of military training and combat experience. He's dealt with rough times on his own and he was with Shepard when s/he made tough calls, so I think he would be prepared to handle the rough stuff. Not to mention everything he has been through during the two years Shepard was gone, which I'm assuming we'll find out more about in ME3.

Saying he is too Paragon kind of discredits all Paragon Shepards...My Shep is Paragon and she is a damn good Spectre. Spectres seem like a Renegade subclass on their own since they only answer to the Council, but there has to be different levels of morality inside that "Renegade class," meaning a Paragon, like Kaidan, would be at the high morality end of the Spectres. I think that makes him less likely to go rogue.

I play a Paragon Shep also...as paragon as you can get...Kaidan just seems an even nicer guy than that....The way I look at it....If my Paragon Shep and Kaidan were real ...(apart from the fact that I would be smitten by both......)....Kaidan I would automatically trust completely...where as Shep, I think I would find him kind of daunting and still a little dangerous at first...it would take me longer to gain that trust in him.

[Golden Owl]

silver1881 wrote...

 

Golden Owl wrote...

Hello Kaidanites....I have a question for you...though I should probably begin with assuring you I am not trolling, just looking for perceptions....I adore Kaidan, he is such a sweet guy and is ALWAYS my canon survivor and I look forward to seeing him again in ME3....

My question: Why do you think Kaidan would make a good Spectre? I just personally think he maybe too Paragon to make the hard calls...what do you guys think?

I think he's one of those people who, like Garrus, would shine if they weren't in Shepard's shadow. He was good enough to be handpicked to serve on the Normandy. To get where he is, it seems like he has a lot of qualities that we didn't necessarily get to see over the course of the game. He has to be an accomplished fighter, have some degree of leadership, etc., but just not quite as much as Shep does, so we never see them because they're not plot-important. The ideal situation would probably be he and Shep working as a Spectre team - the person above who described them as Shep being the gas, K being the brakes, was spot on.

I hadn't thought of that and I believe you have a brilliant point....Thank you Silver, you have given me something to think about.

[Golden Owl]

Chaos715 wrote...

I think that he proved he can make the tough calls when he followed his orders on the Normandy and left Shepard. I don't think anything could be worse for him than that, except maybe having to make that decision again.

Do you think he could?

[Golden Owl]

Preston Violent wrote...

Chaos715 wrote...

I think that he proved he can make the tough calls when he followed his orders on the Normandy and left Shepard. I don't think anything could be worse for him than that, except maybe having that choice again.

He also proved he can be b*tchy enough, on the Horizon.

I can't really agree there....I feel Shep really let Kaidan down on that one...he should have given Kaidan more information, I think Kaidan deserved it....This below is something I PM'ed to a friend recently in regards to the Horizon incident...it's what I would have liked Shep to say to Kaidan:

"....I wanted Shep to have the ability to tell Kaidan..."Yes, I agree, I am
playing a dangerous game with Cerberus, I don't agree with their
methods...I do see the Cerberus organization as morally corrupt and
though they are funding this project and bought me back to life to
complete this project, I am not Cerberus and never will be....At this
stage I am asking one thing of you, one thing only...Please trust me,
trust in who I am and I will see you on the other side of this whole
mess"....."

[jeweledleah]

Golden Owl wrote...

Chaos715 wrote...

I think that he proved he can make the tough calls when he followed his orders on the Normandy and left Shepard. I don't think anything could be worse for him than that, except maybe having to make that decision again.

Do you think he could?

he is an officer (only 1 rank bellow Shepard) and he was a  head of Marine detachement at the time of ME1.  he commanded people before.  yes, I'm pretty sure he'd be able to make tough decisions. being a paragon doesn't excuse you from having to make difficult choices.  you just weight the situation differently from a renegade.  Kaidan doesn't cut corners.  that might actualy make him supremely qualified for spectrehood - becasue he would not make those decision rachly, impulsively, and without concidering all the angles and options.

Horizon nonwithstanding.

[ChaplainTappman]

The problem with the ME games is that they make us focus on the more "Renegade" aspects of being a Spectre. Spectres have to be capable in combat, obviously, but the operational latitude they have allows them to go in the other direction, towards resolving conflicts before they reach a flashpoint. In fact, my guess is that the Council prefers Spectres who do as little shooting as possible.

Kaidan, I think, would excel as a Spectre operating in that vein. He's naturally empathetic and intelligent, and he has a pretty firm grasp of the realities of galactic politics.

[Chaos715]

@Golden Owl - Really tough question. I really don't know. I don't know how much he will have changed, if at all, in the past threeish years, but if he hasn't changed I don't think he could leave Shepard again. I guess it would depend on what's at stake and on the situation. I'm sure if he had the choice he would sacrifice himself over Shepard in an instant but leaving her again, I really don't think so...but that's just me.

Modifié par Chaos715, 12 septembre 2011 - 01:56 .

[Golden Owl]

jeweledleah wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Chaos715 wrote...

I think that he proved he can make the tough calls when he followed his orders on the Normandy and left Shepard. I don't think anything could be worse for him than that, except maybe having to make that decision again.

Do you think he could?

he is an officer (only 1 rank bellow Shepard) and he was a  head of Marine detachement at the time of ME1.  he commanded people before.  yes, I'm pretty sure he'd be able to make tough decisions. being a paragon doesn't excuse you from having to make difficult choices.  you just weight the situation differently from a renegade.  Kaidan doesn't cut corners.  that might actualy make him supremely qualified for spectrehood - becasue he would not make those decision rachly, impulsively, and without concidering all the angles and options.

Horizon nonwithstanding.

I can't remember that...was that in the codex or spoken?

[Gilsa]

I agree with the gas/brake analogy. Forgot to mention that I had liked that when it was first mentioned. There have been a few times in the story where he stood up for what he thought was right:

1. The turian he accidentally killed (I forget the name)
2. Getting pissed at Uldina and telling him he's selling Shepard out
3. He immediately volunteered to work with the salarians in the AA tower, knowing it was potentially a suicide mission because the salarians didn't seem to think they'd return either.
4. This is a plot hammer mainly, but he stuck to his principles at Horizon and wouldn't join Shepard like a yes-man. He didn't reveal any covert information about why he was at Horizon, which left Shepard having to get the story from Anderson.
5. I agree with the part about him/Ashley being under Shepard's shadow. I felt Garrus would be a real leader/spectre in his own right if he wasn't so busy being Shepard's wingman. I was glad to see the dossier confirm this gut feeling. I feel this also applies to Kaidan and Ashley.

I wouldn't say it's so much of Kaidan being too paragon-y, but more of the game limitations he's under by having to work under the protagonist. Alistair suffered from the same criticism in DA:O by letting the warden make all the decisions, but that was a game limitation more than anything to allow the player to have the final say so.

If that makes sense?

[Golden Owl]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

The problem with the ME games is that they make us focus on the more "Renegade" aspects of being a Spectre. Spectres have to be capable in combat, obviously, but the operational latitude they have allows them to go in the other direction, towards resolving conflicts before they reach a flashpoint. In fact, my guess is that the Council prefers Spectres who do as little shooting as possible.

Kaidan, I think, would excel as a Spectre operating in that vein. He's naturally empathetic and intelligent, and he has a pretty firm grasp of the realities of galactic politics.

I would love to see Shep have more options for diplomacy instead of just pull out his gun and bang, bang so much of the time.

Kaidan, yes, does seem to have a good grasp of Galatic politics.

[silver1881]

Gilsa wrote...

I wouldn't say it's so much of Kaidan being too paragon-y, but more of the game limitations he's under by having to work under the protagonist. Alistair suffered from the same criticism in DA:O by letting the warden make all the decisions, but that was a game limitation more than anything to allow the player to have the final say so.

If that makes sense?

When I play RPGs, I tend to fill in the blanks, as it were, between the events we see in-game. There are a lot of things that would happen if it were real life that we don't see because it would take too long and wouldn't be relevant to the plot. In my headcanon, there were plenty of other conversations and events that happened in between game scenes. Making these up makes the experience richer. However, it can get me in trouble, if I'm discussing a game and cite something and then realize that I just made it up.

[Golden Owl]

Chaos715 wrote...

@Golden Owl - Really tough question. I really don't know. I don't know how much he will have changed, if at all, in the past threeish years, but if he hasn't changed I don't think he could leave Shepard again. I guess it would depend on what's at stake and on the situation. I'm sure if he had the choice he would sacrifice himself over Shepard in an instant but leaving her again, I really don't think so...but that's just me.

My Sheps a man and so obviously not Kaidans lover either, I wonder if that would make any difference in Kaidan's eyes.

Just seriously pondering Kaidan right now...the good thing about opinions is they can be changed........I had said 'No' to Kaidan being a Spectre...but I am thinking, I may have jumped the gun on that original reaction.

[jeweledleah]

@ Golden Owl, If I remember correctly, you find that out before Eden prime, through introductions. or right after..I've been avoiding ME1 recently, so I don't remember 100%. he does say that he has never lost people under his command before, when Jenkins dies and he is the one that recommended to Anderson that Ash join the Normandy crew.

wiki entry http://masseffect.wi...i/Kaidan_Alenko - its stated there as well.

during events of the ME2 (and before) he was working directly with Anderson on highly classified missions (to the point where even shadow broker doesn't have a dossier on him)

also, what Gilsa said about gameplay reasons creating a skewed impression.

as for leaving Shepard.

I'm torn between him pulling Neo, or doing what must be done, even if it means losing the woman he loves... again.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 12 septembre 2011 - 02:06 .

[Golden Owl]

Gilsa wrote...

I agree with the gas/brake analogy. Forgot to mention that I had liked that when it was first mentioned. There have been a few times in the story where he stood up for what he thought was right:

1. The turian he accidentally killed (I forget the name)
2. Getting pissed at Uldina and telling him he's selling Shepard out
3. He immediately volunteered to work with the salarians in the AA tower, knowing it was potentially a suicide mission because the salarians didn't seem to think they'd return either.
4. This is a plot hammer mainly, but he stuck to his principles at Horizon and wouldn't join Shepard like a yes-man. He didn't reveal any covert information about why he was at Horizon, which left Shepard having to get the story from Anderson.
5. I agree with the part about him/Ashley being under Shepard's shadow. I felt Garrus would be a real leader/spectre in his own right if he wasn't so busy being Shepard's wingman. I was glad to see the dossier confirm this gut feeling. I feel this also applies to Kaidan and Ashley.

I wouldn't say it's so much of Kaidan being too paragon-y, but more of the game limitations he's under by having to work under the protagonist. Alistair suffered from the same criticism in DA:O by letting the warden make all the decisions, but that was a game limitation more than anything to allow the player to have the final say so.

If that makes sense?

Kaidan is certainly no coward....his a brave and principled man...never been any doubt there.........Still just considering all these great points everyone is making.

[Golden Owl]

Gilsa wrote...

I wouldn't say it's so much of Kaidan being too paragon-y, but more of the game limitations he's under by having to work under the protagonist. Alistair suffered from the same criticism in DA:O by letting the warden make all the decisions, but that was a game limitation more than anything to allow the player to have the final say so.

If that makes sense?

I will have to look over and think about DA:O again....I hadn't felt that way about Alistair myself....But, yes, I understand what your point is though Gilsa....thank you.

[Chaos715]

@Golden Owl, I don't think it would make a difference between a romanced Shepard or not. Either way, Shepard is Kaidan's friend and he cares deeply for him or her, imo Horizon was proof of that. It seems to me, that Kaidan is the type that would watch out for those close to him and under his command and I don't doubt for a moment that he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice himself for them.

Modifié par Chaos715, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:12 .

[Golden Owl]

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Golden Owl, If I remember correctly, you find that out before Eden prime, through introductions. or right after..I've been avoiding ME1 recently, so I don't remember 100%. he does say that he has never lost people under his command before, when Jenkins dies and he is the one that recommended to Anderson that Ash join the Normandy crew.

wiki entry http://masseffect.wi...i/Kaidan_Alenko - its stated there as well.

during events of the ME2 (and before) he was working directly with Anderson on highly classified missions (to the point where even shadow broker doesn't have a dossier on him)

also, what Gilsa said about gameplay reasons creating a skewed impression.

as for leaving Shepard.

I'm torn between him pulling Neo, or doing what must be done, even if it means losing the woman he loves... again.

Thank you for the Wiki link Jewel....I respect Kaidan even more so now and yes, it answered my questions about his previous commands.....Thanks again.

[Golden Owl]

Chaos715 wrote...

@Golden Owl, I don't think it would make a difference between a romanced Shepard or not. Either way, Shepard is Kaidan's friend and he cares deeply for him or her, imo Horizon was proof of that. It seem to me, that Kaidan is the type that would watch out for those close to him and under his command and I don't doubt for a moment that he wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice himself for them.

True....Lets just hope it doesn't come to that in ME3 though....I would really hate to loose him

[Chaos715]

Agreed!

[Golden Owl]

Two more questions:

1.) Do you think Kaidan will be Sheps knew XO?

2.) Do you think Kaidan was ultimately really made made a Spectre at this time to keep an eye on Shep....Kaidan's own credentials not with standing for this question.

[Bekkael]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Some post-coital conversation (maybe while they snuggle under the covers?) would be appreciated too. Kaidan deserves it. (And no fracking Joker interruptions!)

Yes! It's probably dorky, but I want pillow-talk in ME3. That was actually what I enjoyed most about the Merrill-romance in DA2--you actually get to lay in bed and talk to the person you just had sex with!

The Ashley and Kaidan romances should definitely have some sort of longer, pillow-talk-ish scene, and they should reference the ME1 pillow-talk. Kaidan should be allowed to finish his "It's been a long time since..." sentence and Ashley should have a chance to tell Shepard what she promised to tell him after Ilos.

...and Joker should stay out of it!

...unless invited, of course.

You don't even want to know how badly I need to know what Kaidan was going to say before Joker interrupts! I don't mind Joker getting Shep spaced nearly as much as his repeated Kaidan c***blockery. Grr! Notice he never interrupted anything in the ME2 romances? <_< I love Joker, but I really wanted to smack him a couple of times in ME.

mineralica wrote...
Remember "Shepard who takes decision like Kaidan would do it"? I have one. Her name was supposed to be Aida, so tell me about *facepalm* here.But then I've decided that the most memorable feature of Kaidan is his 'almost smile' and, picturing this smile on woman, have changed name to Mona. Another facepalm

Hey, I think you naming your PC Mona based on the above reasons is bloody brilliant. Kaidan really does have a bit of the Mona Lisa type of smile, doesn't he?

Mandalina wrote...

ChaplainTappman wrote...

If Joker interrupts me again I will space him. I'm not even kidding.

Agreed. >.>

Who all plays this on the 360?

*raises hand* Me.

To answer Golden Owl's question of whether I think Kaidan would make a good Spectre...

Yes. For reasons other have already stated so eloquently.

Modifié par Bekkael, 12 septembre 2011 - 02:48 .

[Golden Owl]

Just wanted to say....I have been thinking about everything said here...and just wanted to thank everyone one for helping me examine my original opinions and change them...thank you.....I am now looking forward to meeting up with Kaidan as a Spectre.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 12 septembre 2011 - 02:53 .