67443 réponses à ce sujet

[PMC65]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

I posted this in the Ash thread last night, and I think it bears repeating. The disclaimer still stands.

I want to preface this by saying that I'm not pointing at any one person or group of people when I say this.

If your reaction to Virmire is "boo, it would've been awesome if character x died," then you're missing the point. The whole point of the Mass Effect series, what makes it truly revolutionary, is that sometimes choices are unpleasant. Sometimes there isn't a good choice, or a right choice. I realize that they're just pixels, but you should never want someone dead, especially a teammate. Maybe it's just because my life experiences have given me a unique outlook on things like this, but consigning someone to death should never be easy, should never be joyful.

Just my two cents.

100% agree with you. The first time that I played ME1 and came to this part it absolutely stopped the game for me. I liked both characters ... all of my crew in fact, and this was horrible. There isn't one character that has been in the trenches with my Shepard(s) that I want to see dead. I want my Shepard to meet them on the Citadel for a blow out party after we kill the reapers.

[syllogi]

helenovision wrote...

It's just you can't go a day on dA without seeing a pro Garrus/Shep pic that goes out of it's way to diss Kaidan somehow, or the artist will make sure to mention how they "dumped lame, whiny, weak, human Kaidan as soon as I got back from Horizon, and now am tapping that hot Turian ass".  :I  And I think most of you get what I'm saying. It's just that you see enough of that, you get sick of it, you end up getting kind of defensive about it.  

Oh sweet Maker, so much this.  The rest of your post too, but it's so freaking annoying to jump on dA, and see these kind of comics and pics, and the immature, hideously ignorant commentary that goes along with them, all the freaking time.  It's part of the reason I wanted to make the Kaidan Alenko Fans group in the first place; I needed to have a happy place on dA.

Your post also reminds me of some raging I felt over Labor Day weekend, when I was at a convention, at a Buffy the Vampire Slayer panel.  Some major douchebaguette dissed Nicholas Brendan when she went up to ask a question -- calling Xander Harris "whiny" and saying no one liked him -- causing the actor to walk off the panel for a few minutes.  It was so uncalled for and offensive, especially when she had the nerve to speak for everyone else.

I was like, hmm, the human male character who wasn't Edgy and Extreme, being attacked as whiny and lame???  THIS IS NEW AND SHOCKING TO ME.  (not)

I just wish people who don't appreciate the more subtle characters would tone down the hate, or at least realize that maybe even if the characters don't appeal to them, they might be someone else's cup of tea.  So dissing a fictional character (or attacking the actor who played him right to his face, jeez) for not being to your taste is not only useless, it's rude towards the other people who want to enjoy the characters in peace.

Modifié par TeenZombie, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[KawaiiKatie]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

If your reaction to Virmire is "boo, it would've been awesome if character x died," then you're missing the point. The whole point of the Mass Effect series, what makes it truly revolutionary, is that sometimes choices are unpleasant.

So... none of us are allowed to have a preference for one character over another? Because, yeah, while I wouldn't have celebrated the death of any one character, I can think of some characters that I would have rather left on Virmire besides Kaidan or Ashley, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean, jeeze, just look at what Partick Weekes, a writer for Mass Effect 2, had to say about Jack when she first appeared!

I personally utterly loathe [Jack's] character. She presses a number of buttons I don't like in real-life people, and she's written well enough that she comes off like a real-life person -- a real-life person I detest. Other people respond to her extremely favorably.

Which is why, for me, she stays on the ship. And... well, not to get spoilery on you, but if this were ME1, I'd be really excited when it came time to leave someone to guard the nuke on Virmire. We're on a suicide mission. Some people might not make it. Sacrifices have to be made. (cough)

I mean, ouch! A Bioware dev, someone who is supposed to rave about how awesome the game is going to be, totally called Jack out and said that he would love to kill her off.

Ultimately, haters are going to hate, are when someone is nonsensically spewing bile, the best thing is to ignore that person, because he or she is not interested in conversation. But when someone says "I would have rather seen Person A die than Person B," well, that's just a preference for one character over another, and that's absolutely fine.

EDIT: This page needs Kaidan.


by Jhourney

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[Mandalina]

I wonder what happens if you start the Kaidan romance, Virmire him, and don't go for another romance for the rest of the series. Does the romance even register if you Virmire him?

[moonmythology]

@Chaplain: Many thanks.
@Heleno: I agree with a2. I personally applaud you for defending Kaidan--which is something I anm not brave enough to do myself, especially on some Kaidan vids and clips I posted on youtube where there were some hate mail against Kaidan. And the fact that you gave an explanation here shows good netiquette.

[Golden Owl]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

I posted this in the Ash thread last night, and I think it bears repeating. The disclaimer still stands.

I want to preface this by saying that I'm not pointing at any one person or group of people when I say this.

If your reaction to Virmire is "boo, it would've been awesome if character x died," then you're missing the point. The whole point of the Mass Effect series, what makes it truly revolutionary, is that sometimes choices are unpleasant. Sometimes there isn't a good choice, or a right choice. I realize that they're just pixels, but you should never want someone dead, especially a teammate. Maybe it's just because my life experiences have given me a unique outlook on things like this, but consigning someone to death should never be easy, should never be joyful.

Just my two cents.

I didn't like Ash much...but no I didn't want to kill her off either, same goes with any other character.

[jeweledleah]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

ChaplainTappman wrote...

If your reaction to Virmire is "boo, it would've been awesome if character x died," then you're missing the point. The whole point of the Mass Effect series, what makes it truly revolutionary, is that sometimes choices are unpleasant.

So... none of us are allowed to have a preference for one character over another? Because, yeah, while I wouldn't have celebrated the death of any one character, I can think of some characters that I would have rather left on Virmire besides Kaidan or Ashley, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean, jeeze, just look at what Partick Weekes, a writer for Mass Effect 2, had to say about Jack when she first appeared!

I personally utterly loathe [Jack's] character. She presses a number of buttons I don't like in real-life people, and she's written well enough that she comes off like a real-life person -- a real-life person I detest. Other people respond to her extremely favorably.

Which is why, for me, she stays on the ship. And... well, not to get spoilery on you, but if this were ME1, I'd be really excited when it came time to leave someone to guard the nuke on Virmire. We're on a suicide mission. Some people might not make it. Sacrifices have to be made. (cough)

I mean, ouch! A Bioware dev, someone who is supposed to rave about how awesome the game is going to be, totally called Jack out and said that he would love to kill her off.

Ultimately, haters are going to hate, are when someone is nonsensically spewing bile, the best thing is to ignore that person, because he or she is not interested in conversation. But when someone says "I would have rather seen Person A die than Person B," well, that's just a preference for one character over another, and that's absolutely fine.

patrick Weeks hating Jack doesn't make it ok IMO.  it especialy doesn't make it ok to express that hate oncharacter support threads.

I bolded the sentence for emphasis, becasue I do think its absolutely ok to have preferences.

but I also agree with Chaplain when he says that people who are looking at virmirelike situation as an opportunity to kill off a character, are missing the point.

yes, it was easier for me to save Kaidan, then Ashley.  i like Ashley a lot, but I like Kaidan just a bit more.  and if I had to pick between any one character and Tali - it would have been much easier for me to let Tali go.  but its still a harsh decision, and main reason why I much prefer suicide mission.  because it allows me to save everyone.

[ChaplainTappman]

@KawaiiKate: There's nothing wrong with liking one character more than another, just like there's nothing wrong with liking one person more than another. I never said there was. But when we're condemning someone to death because you don't like them, that's something I can't identify with. Like I said, I get that they're just pixels, but there is something fundamentally wrong with being excited to cause someone's death. Especially for something so mundane as "I don't like you."

As I mentioned before, I know that a lot of this is because I have an outlook and a mindset that few people share, shaped by my individual life experiences. I'd rather not go into further detail, for myriad reasons, but the takeaway is this: I don't feel we should be casual, and we certainly shouldn't be gleeful, about people's death. Virmire was about difficult, ugly choices, not "yay I get to kill someone off!"

[meonlyred]

My thing is I like ALL the characters in ME, some make me mad because they are supposed to make you mad. That is how their character is written. Provoking high emotion is a sign of a good character. Horizon was SUPPOSED to leave you feeling conflicted. Some of us got angry, some of us were sad, etc.

What gets me is people who hate a character just to hate a character. I have found NO reason to hate Kaidan at all. The reasons that are given by those who don't like him are weak ignorant reasons that don't stand up when picked apart.

"He is whiny." Oh you mean when you warned Shepard not to make the mistakes of his past?
"He hates lesbians." You mean when he refused to be used and played by Shepard while she was sleeping with another person?
"He is a wimp." Like when he ACCIDENTALLY killed a goddamn veteran turian commander at the age of 17?
"He is has weird hair." Your hair is weird!!
"He is fat." Because he doesn't have the same body model as ManShep.
"He is gay." Oh gay like when he slept with FemShep? And had a girlfriend back in BAat? He hides it well.
"Betrayed me on Horizon." *See Dirae and Heleno's rant*
"He is a Carth clone." Yep he totally has a dead wife and lost son... oh wait no he doesn't.
"Didn't want a threesome." Because everyone in the world wants a threesome...
"He is bland." No, he doesn't have emotional problems that Shepard has to fix for him.
"LOL, Dead in my game" Then you are not playing Mass Effect correctly.
"I hope my new LI kills them" I hope you like being disappointed.
"He's useless in combat" Congrats, you still don't know who to play Mass Effect correctly.

Wow I'm being a bit of an ass today. Oh well!

[Caseshep]

Mandalina wrote...

I wonder what happens if you start the Kaidan romance, Virmire him, and don't go for another romance for the rest of the series. Does the romance even register if you Virmire him?

I don't think so, because you wouldn't have the before-Ilos scene with him that "sealed the deal."


Red, you mean this?

Modifié par Caseshep, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:28 .

[meonlyred]

Caseshep is right, if Kaidan dies on Virmire then there is no longer a romance. There will not be a picture of him on Shepard's desk and no romance flags will import to ME2.

Yes I mean the VS bingo.
All of those I have seriously heard before a long with many many more...

Modifié par meonlyred, 13 septembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Caseshep]

And this

[Kia Purity]

My reply to the haters:

Wish I knew who created the image in the first place so I could credit them. :|

[Golden Owl]

meonlyred wrote...

My thing is I like ALL the characters in ME, some make me mad because they are supposed to make you mad. That is how their character is written. Provoking high emotion is a sign of a good character. Horizon was SUPPOSED to leave you feeling conflicted. Some of us got angry, some of us were sad, etc.

What gets me is people who hate a character just to hate a character. I have found NO reason to hate Kaidan at all. The reasons that are given by those who don't like him are weak ignorant reasons that don't stand up when picked apart.

"He is whiny." Oh you mean when you warned Shepard not to make the mistakes of his past?
"He hates lesbians." You mean when he refused to be used and played by Shepard while she was sleeping with another person?
"He is a wimp." Like when he ACCIDENTALLY killed a goddamn veteran turian commander at the age of 17?
"He is has weird hair." Your hair is weird!!
"He is fat." Because he doesn't have the same body model as ManShep.
"He is gay." Oh gay like when he slept with FemShep? And had a girlfriend back in BAat? He hides it well.
"Betrayed me on Horizon." *See Dirae and Heleno's rant*
"He is a Carth clone." Yep he totally has a dead wife and lost son... oh wait no he doesn't.
"Didn't want a threesome." Because everyone in the world wants a threesome...
"He is bland." No, he doesn't have emotional problems that Shepard has to fix for him.
"LOL, Dead in my game" Then you are not playing Mass Effect correctly.
"I hope my new LI kills them" I hope you like being disappointed.
"He's useless in combat" Congrats, you still don't know who to play Mass Effect correctly.

Wow I'm being a bit of an ass today. Oh well!

I sometimes wonder though, through an experience of my own if there is generally more to the hate than people realize themselves....My own case in point: I absolutely hated Miranda....couldn't stand her (still couldn't go and deliberately kill her off though...that's over stepping lines in my own views)....it concerned me, my extreme reaction to a game NPC, very silly....so spoke with a perceptive friend about it and hashed it out with her...finally came to realize Miranda reminded me strongly of the girls I had attended school with all those years ago (I attended and all girls private school...).....it left a foul taste in my life....My Miranda hatred came down to the fact that like the girls I attended school with, I couldn't tell her how I see her attitude either....but the point being, once I knew where the strong reaction was eminating from, I was finally able to drop it and no longer hate Miranda...just neutral about her now....I wonder how many other people are just responding to past experiences in their reactions to these very well written NPC's.

[Myaku1313]

O.o Interesting take on the hate.

[AdmiralCheez]

Hey guys. I'd just like to say I'm sorry for making a thread about Kaidan's butt.

I like Kaidan. I really do. Haven't romanced him all the way yet, but I have to say that the flirting was adorable. He's a dork in a cute way.

Also, LIFTSPAM.

[KawaiiKatie]

Kaidan's butt is perfect and nothing will ever convince me otherwise.

[Silver77nz]

I Love his butt! Would like to grab it

[KawaiiKatie]

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

I Love his butt! Would like to grab it

Well, this definitely calls for...



....and of course...



....and, just for fun, let's add...

[Fault Girl]

Jenova65 wrote...

People spell my name wrong even after they I've written it down for them (my real name) it infuriates me that they are so superior as to assume I don't know how to spell my name......... 

You know my whole real name, imagine all the ways people have spelt it!

I think the reasoning behind the Kaidan LI hate is due to him being "stable"


The Garrus romance never worked for me, too awkward, was like being a teenager losing their virginity. Even the Thane romance worked abit more smoothly in the inter-races argument.

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:57 .

[Criz]

Mandalina wrote...

I wonder what happens if you start the Kaidan romance, Virmire him, and don't go for another romance for the rest of the series. Does the romance even register if you Virmire him?

that was asked on twitter the other day and if I recall correctly dead romances will be acknowledged somehow

[Criz]

meonlyred wrote...
"LOL, Dead in my game" Then you are not playing Mass Effect correctly.

hmmm, at least Kaidan's death accomplishes something, the VS is holding the line with the salarians ensuring the AA Tower goes down or that the bomb is kept safe until it goes off. And you have to choose between Ashley and Kaidan, there's no way around it.

Now, in ME2 every death could be avoided, so every squaddies' death is on your hands
Went through the relay without proper upgrades?
- Someone gets blown up, elecrocuted or squashed
Attempt the Suicide Mission without making sure your team isn't distracted?
- That gets them and others killed
Being a failcake-commander who doesn't know whom to send in as specialist or commander of the other teams?
- Get people killed.

The haters want to play "LOL, dead in my game"?
How about:
"LOL, dead in my game, because they tried to catch an energy blast with their face!"
"LOL, dead in my game, getting cooked in the vents!"
"LOL, dead in my game, screaming at the top of their lungs when some bugs flew off with them!"
etc.etc.

good thing we're not *that* childish, but it needed to be said <_<

[dunfall14]

Criz-Zone wrote...

Mandalina wrote...

I wonder what happens if you start the Kaidan romance, Virmire him, and don't go for another romance for the rest of the series. Does the romance even register if you Virmire him?

that was asked on twitter the other day and if I recall correctly dead romances will be acknowledged somehow

I thought that was to do with the SM when the LI dies.

[Criz]

dunfall14 wrote...

Criz-Zone wrote...

Mandalina wrote...

I wonder what happens if you start the Kaidan romance, Virmire him, and don't go for another romance for the rest of the series. Does the romance even register if you Virmire him?

that was asked on twitter the other day and if I recall correctly dead romances will be acknowledged somehow

I thought that was to do with the SM when the LI dies.

oh right, Kaidan would be dead before you get intimate ... though it's still a romance, but I guess that detail wasn't covered in the tweet (silly 140 letters limit ... I DEMAND twitter XXL!)

does anyone know if the romance counts as romance when you pick the 'not now' option?
for the Kaidan romance at least it sounded like you do want to continue the romance, not end it, but right at this moment when you flew to Ilos didn't want to 'get physical' and Kaidan's reaction confirms as much. He will still say "I swear though if anything happens to you" etc. and doesn't storm off to calibrate the console again because of hurt feelings

[mineralica]

Criz-Zone wrote...

Mandalina wrote...

I wonder what happens if you start the Kaidan romance, Virmire him, and don't go for another romance for the rest of the series. Does the romance even register if you Virmire him?

that was asked on twitter the other day and if I recall correctly dead romances will be acknowledged somehow

This, I believe?

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/112941704641908736
"Most ME2 romances can die at Suicide Mission. Will dead romance take effect in ME3 or it will be like romance never happen."

"Are asking if you cheated in ME2 whether you can get away with it, IF the one you cheated with died? Hmmmmmmm?? #CaughtOnTape"


twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/112949941101527040
"Well not get away, just to acknowledge that. But even if you didn't cheat and romance died, will it be mentioned at all?"

"I was having a little fun... But yes, old romances will not be forgotten."

That's about dead on SM ME2 romances. Person who was dead on Virmire doesn't give a romance flag at savegame. Funny thing: romance flag and "dead on Virmire" flags presented simultaneously cause virmired person to survive... likely by Power of Love:lol:

Edit: ahh, my wish to speak about hate to characters was completely eliminated by this picture:


by Jhourney

Kaidan is always too much distraction

Modifié par mineralica, 13 septembre 2011 - 08:55 .