67443 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

Bekkael wrote...

Chaos715 wrote...

I agree with you ZombieGeisha. I want the fact that my femshep and Kaidan developed a relationship throughout the first game, made love the night before Ilos and lost everything when she died, to actually mean something in ME3. That moment when Kaidan and Shepard are finally reunited needs to be unique. What might have been is different than what we had, and should be handled differently.

Yes. History and a shared past relationship should be shown differently. After all, if Shepard hadn't been blown to hell, they would have been together all that time (not necessarily physically together, but relationship-wise).

Also, if there are different scenes and conversation for those new to his romance, and those that import from ME1 & 2, that gives us double Kaidan romance, which would be nice since we had to go an entire game romance-free. How is this a bad thing?

Agreed also, I don't want to penalize people who are starting new romances (m/f or m/m) with Kaidan, but I do want it acknowledged that there is history with a character who had that night before Ilos, and managed to NOT move on to a shiny new LI in ME2, despite Casey Hudson assuring us that it would be so amazingly hard to stay away.

The relationship in ME1 might not have had much time to develop, but it did exist, and sticking with Kaidan should have some sort of unique scene, in my opinion.

[Fiery Phoenix]

TeenZombie wrote...

(...)

The relationship in ME1 might not have had much time to develop, but it did exist, and sticking with Kaidan should have some sort of unique scene, in my opinion.

It will.

Feel free to quote me.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[jeweledleah]

Eccentrica Gallumbits wrote...

It's inherently sexist because they make a point to satisfy the straight male fantasy of a hot lesbian sex but not the gay male fantasy of hot space sex. And I'm not going to be drawn into any more debates.

This thread is about love, and I support love in its varied forms, even in a video game.

I should have phrased it better.  why is it inherently sexist if they do NOT make Kaidan available for s/s romance, as long as there's m/m romance availabel in a game?  or did I misunderstand your original point and you mean m/m romance in general?

as for separat path for rekindled vs new romance?  I'm afraid its going to be almost the same as the new one, sorry.  I'm not even sure if "Horizon" conversation going to be in any way different.  at most I could see couple of extra sentences where you could aknowledge that you were still interested in trying again, and then - proceed down those same identical rails.  the only thing I can console myself with is at least that way- they could write that singular path to be longer isntead of couple of short convo's we got in ME2 romances.  I would have prefered if that romance was for "stayed faithful" shepards only. 

[mineralica]

TeenZombie wrote...

<...>
Agreed also, I don't want to penalize people who are starting new romances (m/f or m/m) with Kaidan, but I do want it acknowledged that there is history with a character who had that night before Ilos, and managed to NOT move on to a shiny new LI in ME2, despite Casey Hudson assuring us that it would be so amazingly hard to stay away.

The relationship in ME1 might not have had much time to develop, but it did exist, and sticking with Kaidan should have some sort of unique scene, in my opinion.

I totally see how two set of lines/dialogues can alternatively exist be played for romance: some comments/thoughts about past relationships OR buildup for new romance.

Speaking of lines, just noticed in Miranda thread:

Vertigo_1 wrote...

ME3 has 40,000 lines

twitter.com/#!/VectorWarrior/status/113481911447461888
"We do our best to keep consistency but it's tough with 40,000 lines! We've got new techniques on ME3 that improve it tho!"

ME2 had 25,000

Holy ****

Modifié par mineralica, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:58 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

sorry to be a bit of a downer

Lulz

jeweledleah wrote...
but it will be copy paste.  all 3 possible romances?  they will be identical to each other 85% of the time. 
[...]
so yeah, I think he will have his same sex romance and it will be 95% identical to  imported romance and 99% identical to new m/f romance (and if you think they are going to write s/s romance only for him?  think again)

So many assumptions in just one post.

[ChaplainTappman]

Bekkael wrote...

Hopefully your chest is much happier for it.  I agree with you. Just because I have a favorite doesn't mean other fan favorites aren't just as wonderful. Different strokes...  (But surely you must admit, Kaidan seems to get a disproportionate amount of hate?)

Kaidan get a ton of hate, way more than I'd expect for a guy whose defining characteristic is being low-key. But I think the recurring LI characters, minus Liara, get about equal degrees of hate.

[Sialater]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

sorry to be a bit of a downer

Lulz

jeweledleah wrote...
but it will be copy paste.  all 3 possible romances?  they will be identical to each other 85% of the time. 
[...]
so yeah, I think he will have his same sex romance and it will be 95% identical to  imported romance and 99% identical to new m/f romance (and if you think they are going to write s/s romance only for him?  think again)

So many assumptions in just one post.

It may be an assumption, but that IS what DA did.  I don't honestly expect ME3 to differ on that.

[Chignon]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
but it will be copy paste.  all 3 possible romances?  they will be identical to each other 85% of the time. 
[...]
so yeah, I think he will have his same sex romance and it will be 95% identical to  imported romance and 99% identical to new m/f romance (and if you think they are going to write s/s romance only for him?  think again)

So many assumptions in just one post.

Actually the assumption that the same sex romance will be nearly identical to the heterosexual one isn't much of an assumption. I'd say it's a pretty accurate guess since that's the way BioWare handled it with Liara, Anders, Fenris, Isabela and Merrill.

I agree with you on the other ones, though. There's no way to tell yet.

[shepskisaac]

Sialater wrote...

It may be an assumption, but that IS what DA did.  I don't honestly expect ME3 to differ on that.

DA did what ME1 would have done if Kaidan & Ashley were available for both Sheps and what was done with Liara. ME3 is a different case with already existing romances unlike ME1 & DA.

Chignon wrote...

Actually the assumption that the same sex romance will be nearly identical to the heterosexual one isn't much of an assumption. I'd say it's a pretty accurate guess since that's the way BioWare handled it with Liara, Anders, Fenris, Isabela and Merrill.

But you base this assumption on another assumption that there will be a new o/s romance with Kaidan at all. That's the point.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[Chignon]

I thought we were discussing the possibility on the grounds of that assumption?

Modifié par Chignon, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:08 .

[Xilizhra]

You know... I've never played a male Shepard, so wherein lies the potential gay subtext with Kaidan?

I mean, he never said he wasn't into men, so there's no character retconning happening regardless, but if you did see something, I'm curious where.

[Bekkael]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

Hopefully your chest is much happier for it.  I agree with you. Just because I have a favorite doesn't mean other fan favorites aren't just as wonderful. Different strokes...  (But surely you must admit, Kaidan seems to get a disproportionate amount of hate?)

Kaidan get a ton of hate, way more than I'd expect for a guy whose defining characteristic is being low-key. But I think the recurring LI characters, minus Liara, get about equal degrees of hate.

I really don't understand that. If someone dislikes a character so much, why go onto a thread just to spew "lol, Kaiden sucks, I Virmired his arse!" If I don't totally love a character, I don't go into discussions about said character just to air my clearly superior and ultimate opinion and verbally bludgeon people who don't share it. <_<

That seems to be the way of things though, so what can you do?

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It may be an assumption, but that IS what DA did.  I don't honestly expect ME3 to differ on that.

DA did what ME1 would have done if Kaidan & Ashley were available for both Sheps and what was done with Liara. ME3 is a different case with already existing romances unlike ME1 & DA.

Chignon wrote...

Actually the assumption that the same sex romance will be nearly identical to the heterosexual one isn't much of an assumption. I'd say it's a pretty accurate guess since that's the way BioWare handled it with Liara, Anders, Fenris, Isabela and Merrill.

But you base this assumption on another assumption that there will be a new o/s romance with Kaidan at all. That's the point.

and you are assuming that they will not include new m/f romance for Kaidan in ME3 and only s/s.  Id' say my assumption has a lot more ground then yours. 

You know... I've never played a male Shepard, so wherein lies the potential gay subtext with Kaidan?

I
mean, he never said he wasn't into men, so there's no character
retconning happening regardless, but if you did see something, I'm
curious where.

wistful interpretation, Xil.  yes, he doesn't say he's not into men, in general, but nowhere does he show that he might be crushing on maleshep specificaly.  people just like to interpret it that way.  I've seen it in reallife too, so I'm not surprised

Modifié par jeweledleah, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:15 .

[Sialater]

Chignon wrote...

I thought we were discussing the possibility on the grounds of that assumption?

That's what I thought, too.  That IF s/s was included it would differ only from the existing relationships by a few lines.  And IF any type of new relationship was begun, it would differ by only a few more lines.  Hence the 85% -95% similarity.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

and you are assuming that they will not include new m/f romance for Kaidan in ME3 and only s/s.  Id' say my assumption has a lot more ground then yours. 

And I'd say my assumption has a lot more ground then yours.

[ChaplainTappman]

Xilizhra wrote...

You know... I've never played a male Shepard, so wherein lies the potential gay subtext with Kaidan?

I mean, he never said he wasn't into men, so there's no character retconning happening regardless, but if you did see something, I'm curious where.

For me, it's not anything I can point to. Just a feeling I always had that the relationship would fit. I hope it happens, though I doubt I'll ever see it.

Bekkael wrote...

I really don't understand that. If someone dislikes a character so much, why go onto a thread just to spew "lol, Kaiden sucks, I Virmired his arse!" If I don't totally love a character, I don't go into discussions about said character just to air my clearly superior and ultimate opinion and verbally bludgeon people who don't share it. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

That seems to be the way of things though, so what can you do?

Ditto. Like I said, I expect nothing to change. But I apparently am determined to keep banging my head against a wall trying to point out that civility and humanity cost us nothing.

Modifié par ChaplainTappman, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:22 .

[jeweledleah]

Sialater wrote...

Chignon wrote...

I thought we were discussing the possibility on the grounds of that assumption?

That's what I thought, too.  That IF s/s was included it would differ only from the existing relationships by a few lines.  And IF any type of new relationship was begun, it would differ by only a few more lines.  Hence the 85% -95% similarity.

yes.  this.

I cannot see bioware adding to already heavy load of trying to juggle 9 existing relationships, which also include possibility of loyal vs moved on relationships.

40,000 lines of dialogue.  pretty sure it includes non romance dialogue and there's a LOT of variation to that depending on choices during loyalty missions,if those missions were even completed, which characters died in suicide mission, which ones lived and in what capacity, etc.  and then there are the promised consequences to side mission choices, and choices from ME1.

its a LOT to juggle and romances being optional subplots and all?  theyare going to go down the pass of the least resistance.

[Xilizhra]

Well, having bisexual people who don't make a huge difference out of whom they choose to sleep with has its own pluses.

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

its a LOT to juggle and romances being optional subplots and all?  theyare going to go down the pass of the least resistance.

And then you insist they're totally gonna add new o/s romance for Ash & Kaidan (apart from s/s ones) even though it would be easier and more cost effective for them just add new s/s one? Yeah.

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

its a LOT to juggle and romances being optional subplots and all?  theyare going to go down the pass of the least resistance.

And then you insist they're totally gonna add new o/s romance for Ash & Kaidan (apart from s/s ones) even though it would be easier and more cost effective for them just add new s/s one? Yeah.

sigh... and reduce the number of newly available romances for new and returning players?  think.  please.  try to.

they are not going to add s/s romance only.  regardless of who the characters are going to be, new or returning.  they are going to write a romance that's available for both genders.  its not cost effective otherwise, becasue not including m/f romance possibilityfor him measn they have to write a separate m/f romance with another character.

[KawaiiKatie]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

its a LOT to juggle and romances being optional subplots and all?  theyare going to go down the pass of the least resistance.

And then you insist they're totally gonna add new o/s romance for Ash & Kaidan (apart from s/s ones) even though it would be easier and more cost effective for them just add new s/s one? Yeah.

I think if Shepard is single, he or she will be able to start a new relationship with Kaidan, if only so that Bioware can cover all of their bases. Gay male Shepards who have been pining for Kaidan since ME1 will get to romance him, and newcomers who had a default ME2 or ME3 femShep will be able to romance him. The same goes in reverse for Ashley with lesbians femSheps (who didn't romance Liara for whatever reason) and default manSheps.

Since the Virmire Survivor is supposed to be this huge part of the story, I can't imagine that Bioware won't let newcomers romance him or her. There's not going to be a "Genesis" type comic before ME3 for newcomers (that rumour was dispelled, because making ME1 and ME2 choices would be "meaningless" to players new to the series) so we know that manSheps will be defaulted to Ashley, and femSheps will be defaulted to Kaidan. Odds that they will be romance-able by newcomers is, in my opinion, pretty high... and if default femShep can start a new romance with Kaidan, why can't my transferred manShep do the same? Meer and Hale record a lot of the same lines anyway, so it wouldn't take that much effort to make Ash and Kaidan swing "both ways" when it comes to starting a new ME3 romance.

All that said, I doubt that the "new" romance and the "faithful" romance will be too different, except that Kaidan will probably talk about Ilos with a faithful femShep, while with "new" femShep and gay manShep, Kaidan will instead say something like, "I can't believe it took us so long to get this far." And honestly, so long as that distinction is there in some form, I'd be completely okay with that.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:43 .

[shepskisaac]

jeweledleah wrote...

sigh... and reduce the number of newly available romances for new and returning players?  think.  please.  try to.

When there already is a romance available? Think. Please. Try to.

jeweledleah wrote...

 its not cost effective otherwise, becasue not including m/f romance possibilityfor him measn they have to write a separate m/f romance with another character.

Which is precisely what will happen as Mac Walters has already confirmed not all romances will be available for both gendered Sheps (which means some will have only separate m/f dialogues).

KawaiiKatie wrote...

There's not going to be a "Genesis" type comic before ME3 for newcomers (that rumour was dispelled, because making ME1 and ME2 choices would be "meaningless" to players new to the series)

That's not true Katie. First of all, it wasn't any rumor. Casey Hudson himself talked about 'something similar to Genesis for ME3' during GameInformer interviews. Second, the person who said there won't be Genesis type comic was David Silverman who's responsible for all BioWare games, not just ME, and thus has been often incorrect in the past. Heck, Mike Gamble, a ME producer himself was incorrect about dead-Shep imports. And then, Silverman said there won't be a comic like Genesis. He never said there won't be any kind of a choices generator in ME3.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:48 .

[RubyRed1975]

Well if they add s/s for Kaidan wouldn't it be just as plausible that they will add o/s also? Since it's going to be copy and paste, I guess it doesn't really matter.

[jeweledleah]

IsaacShep wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

sigh... and reduce the number of newly available romances for new and returning players?  think.  please.  try to.

When there already is a romance available? Think. Please. Try to.

jeweledleah wrote...

 its not cost effective otherwise, becasue not including m/f romance possibilityfor him measn they have to write a separate m/f romance with another character.

Which is precisely what will happen as Mac Walters has already confirmed not all romances will be available for both gendered Sheps (which means some will have only separate m/f dialogues).

please read what KawaiKatie said. (agree with that post 99%, with the exception of that part where you are ok with it.  I'm not ok with it, but there's nothing I can do about it at this point)

and what walters said is that old LI's will be available for new romances.  he didnt specify what type.  he only said that some of the old LI's would be available.  you are interpreting his post in a way that you want to hear.  I'm interpreting it in a way that actualy makes sence.

edited for top.

http://aisling88.dev...Kaidan-98931064

Modifié par jeweledleah, 13 septembre 2011 - 07:00 .