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[rapscallioness]

@Xilizhra I think the ppl that beg for Kaidan not to be gay or bi are just uncomfortable with the whole thing. Not because they like Kaidan so much.

Kaidan gets hated on and it's unfortunate because I thought he was an interesting character. The story of his birth and the corporate accidents. His time at Brain Camp. Him killing that Turian sob. How he felt about that. How he dropped out for awhile.

No, we didn't get a quest in ME1 that delved into his background. But even Wrex and Garrus were not that deep of a quest. They were actually pretty lame. You didn't learn anything more about them. And Tali..we didn't do anything with Tali in ME1.

ME2, hell, Kaidan wasn't even in there except for that cameo.

But that doesn't mean I hate on my alien squad. I love those guys, too.

[Kyakan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Really? Omg, I want your life. The hate I've seen him get has been...more colorful. Boring, whiny, useless, teh gayz, and some that refuse to even acknowledge his existence at all.

Teh gayz? All I've heard is people desperate to make him not gay. Or bi, rather.

Again, I want your life. You don't know how blessed you are.

Xilizhra wrote...
+

I think that, after ME2, it's a bit unfair to say that anyone has no place in the story due to lack of personal relevance. ME2's whole plot was pretty much collecting characters that were peripherally related at best - which may have been a good thing, actually. Shepard has to build an army, and that needs to be represented with lots and lots of characters. Making them all have some kind of individual, personal connection with the Reapers the way Shepard did would seem a bit contrived.
*giggles* And that just gave me a mental image of PROTHEAN BEACONS EVERYWHERE!!!

Granted, but then you got quests and suchlike that delved into their background, something lacking with Kaidan.

Huh?

But you did get to see Kaidan's background. And the ME2 characters' Loyalty Missions didn't have much to do with the main plot of the storyline, unless one of them happens to be relevant to your Shepard (like Kaidan was to mine).

I was probably being unclear again. I'll give some examples.
Ashley is closely related to the Reapers because...Saren killed her squad on Eden Prime, and she wants revenge. She has a very distinct reason to be on this quest.
Kaidan is not closely related to the Reapers because...BAaT was about his personal life as a kid, and was not caused by Saren/the geth/the Reapers. He just so happened to be one of the crewmembers on the Normandy SR1.
Samara is not closely related to the Reapers because...she's chasing after Morinth, who is an unrelated criminal, not a Reaper/geth/indoctrinated person. She just happened to be a powerful biotic that caught Cerberus' interest.

And yet, Kaidan and Samara can still be in the story because they're Shepard's friends. Depending on your Shepard, they may add some non-canon depth to the story. For example, I once saw someone talking about how Jack was a nice foil to their adept Shepard, who could have potentially ended up just as crazy had she not been so lucky growing up.


Edit: Eep, this thread moves fast.

Modifié par Kyakan, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:48 .

[rapscallioness]

TeenZombie wrote...

EDIT:  ToPs are stressful, omg:



by Sean-D-Omega

wow..that pic is gorgeous. Gorgeous work by the artist. It never ceases to amaze me the talent ppl have.

[Ellyria]

TeenZombie wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Really? Omg, I want your life. The hate I've seen him get has been...more colorful. Boring, whiny, useless, teh gayz, and some that refuse to even acknowledge his existence at all.

Teh gayz? All I've heard is people desperate to make him not gay. Or bi, rather.

If you're just hanging out in the For the Love thread and this one, maybe.  If you venture out to any other thread on this site, LiveJournal, DeviantArt, Penny Arcade, The Escapist, or the rest of the internet, Kaidan is hated, and his defenders are few.

From ME's release until just before they announced that some previous LIs from ME/ME2 were going to be made S/S, weren't Kaidan haters screaming about how gay he was? Now that there's a chance he might be bi, those same people are screaming that it would be a retcon? 

[Kyakan]

Chylise wrote...

From ME's release until just before they announced that some previous LIs from ME/ME2 were going to be made S/S, weren't Kaidan haters screaming about how gay he was? Now that there's a chance he might be bi, those same people are screaming that it would be a retcon? 

LOL. So true.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

[jeweledleah]

Chylise wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Really? Omg, I want your life. The hate I've seen him get has been...more colorful. Boring, whiny, useless, teh gayz, and some that refuse to even acknowledge his existence at all.

Teh gayz? All I've heard is people desperate to make him not gay. Or bi, rather.

If you're just hanging out in the For the Love thread and this one, maybe.  If you venture out to any other thread on this site, LiveJournal, DeviantArt, Penny Arcade, The Escapist, or the rest of the internet, Kaidan is hated, and his defenders are few.

From ME's release until just before they announced that some previous LIs from ME/ME2 were going to be made S/S, weren't Kaidan haters screaming about how gay he was? Now that there's a chance he might be bi, those same people are screaming that it would be a retcon? 

they were using a different definition of gay.  as in "that's gay"= "that sucks"

[Ellyria]

jeweledleah wrote...

Chylise wrote...
From ME's release until just before they announced that some previous LIs from ME/ME2 were going to be made S/S, weren't Kaidan haters screaming about how gay he was? Now that there's a chance he might be bi, those same people are screaming that it would be a retcon? 

they were using a different definition of gay.  as in "that's gay"= "that sucks"

Oh yes, THAT definition. I've never been a fan of people using "gay" as an alternative to stupid/sucks/lame/etc. But nobody listens to me when I say that maybe they should use a more fitting word, but whatcha gonna do. *shrugs*

Then again, I have heard some haters say "I can't see Ash as gay, but Kaidan is totally gay. I knew he was gay since ME1." Ooooooookay.

[FireEye]

Dunno. Seem to recall having seen plenty of people claiming that Kaidan was gaying up their MShep and that they didn't like it and left him on Virmire because he was gay.

... I assume they were talking about the slow, sensual approach that Ashley does not get and that they meant "homosexual," rather than "stupid," but then I assume a lot.

... Also, I don't know how many of these people stepped up to defend Kaidan from turning teh ghey, but I know at least one self-professed Kaidan hater (or at least, vocal disliker) who stepped up against turning Kaidan gay because it... did... whatever... to his Mass Effect experience....  

Modifié par FireEye, 18 septembre 2011 - 02:25 .

[ChaplainTappman]

Chylise wrote...

Then again, I have heard some haters say "I can't see Ash as gay, but Kaidan is totally gay. I knew he was gay since ME1." Ooooooookay.

To be fair, that was my first impression of s/s romances, and I'm not a hater. I wouldn't put it that, well, haterish, but yeah. I always thought Kaidan and BroShep fit as a couple.

[Ellyria]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Chylise wrote...

Then again, I have heard some haters say "I can't see Ash as gay, but Kaidan is totally gay. I knew he was gay since ME1." Ooooooookay.

To be fair, that was my first impression of s/s romances, and I'm not a hater. I wouldn't put it that, well, haterish, but yeah. I always thought Kaidan and BroShep fit as a couple.

Ah, I didn't mean that anyone who thought Kaidan could be gay/bi since ME1 is automatically a hater. I know there's people who interpret MShep/Kaidan's interactions as attraction (where's Isaac when you need him! ), which is totally fine. I've seen allusions in ME/ME2 that FShep/Ashley or FShep/Tali could be more than just friends.


I'm talking about the people who go "I hate Kaidan, he's such a whiny, boring Carth clone! Totally coming on to my manly man straight Man Shepard and trying to rub his queer all over me. Thank god I nuked his ass on Virmire, I don't want him trying to get in my Shepard's pants in ME3. No wonder he didn't want a FShep/Liara/Kaidan threesome, it's cuz he likes dudes!" And then I proceed to facepalm so hard I think I dent my face with my rings. 

[Kyakan]

FireEye wrote...

... Also, I don't know how many of these people stepped up to defend Kaidan from turning teh ghey, but I know at least one self-professed Kaidan hater (or at least, vocal disliker) who stepped up against turning Kaidan gay because it... did... whatever... to his Mass Effect experience....  

Seems he was infected with the Gay Virus. Unfortunately, there is no cure at this time, but there is a treatment. Keep in mind that this is experimental only and has a very low success rate. You must follow these directions very, very carefully.

Step 1: Play as a dude.
Step 2: ~VERY IMPORTANT, DO NOT SKIP~ Don't romance Kaidan.
Step 3: ~VERY IMPORTANT, DO NOT SKIP~ Continue to not romance Kaidan.

Godspeed.

Chylise wrote...

I'm talking about the people who go "I hate Kaidan, he's such a whiny, boring Carth clone! Totally coming on to my manly man straight Man Shepard and trying to rub his queer all over me. Thank god I nuked his ass on Virmire, I don't want him trying to get in my Shepard's pants in ME3. No wonder he didn't want a FShep/Liara/Kaidan threesome, it's cuz he likes dudes!" And then I proceed to facepalm so hard I think I dent my face with my rings. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Funny how you only get that scene after he's fallen in love with FemShep. Oh, irony.

Modifié par Kyakan, 18 septembre 2011 - 02:37 .

[syllogi]

FireEye wrote...

Dunno. Seem to recall having seen plenty of people claiming that Kaidan was gaying up their MShep and that they didn't like it and left him on Virmire because he was gay.

... I assume they were talking about the slow, sensual approach that Ashley does not get and that they meant "homosexual," rather than "stupid," but then I assume a lot.

... Also, I don't know how many of these people stepped up to defend Kaidan from turning teh ghey, but I know at least one self-professed Kaidan hater (or at least, vocal disliker) who stepped up against turning Kaidan gay because it... did... whatever... to his Mass Effect experience....  

Well...

[jeweledleah]

see, I never understood the whole "ghey vibe" thing people keep harping about, from Kaidan. he always seemed like a regular guy to me, who most definitely liked women, and was professional/friendly towards men. I play malesheps and femsheps, incidentally. but what do I know :/

and yes, there are many people who kept claiming that Kaidan must have been gay because omg, he's nice and soft spoken, with a subtle sense of humor, and has a hair bump that is actually curly hair with high definition, but it must be hair gel (and straight men don't use hair gel, ever), and he has feelings! because of course all of those things define sexuality, amirite?

personally, I don't want him to be expanded into bisexuality. heck, I'd rather he wasn't available for new romance all together (for variety of reasons, one of them being - its been 3 years. he has tried to move on on a romanced Shepard, you mean he hasn't found a single person he might have liked in that time when not in romance with Shepard? :/)

but I always liked Kaidan, before or after the announcement.

[Volus Warlord]

TeenZombie wrote...



Well...

:lol:Sorry, doesn't match your sig.

[Shoko86]

jeweledleah wrote...

see, I never understood the whole "ghey vibe" thing people keep harping about, from Kaidan. he always seemed like a regular guy to me, who most definitely liked women, and was professional/friendly towards men. I play malesheps and femsheps, incidentally. but what do I know :/

and yes, there are many people who kept claiming that Kaidan must have been gay because omg, he's nice and soft spoken, with a subtle sense of humor, and has a hair bump that is actually curly hair with high definition, but it must be hair gel (and straight men don't use hair gel, ever), and he has feelings! because of course all of those things define sexuality, amirite?

personally, I don't want him to be expanded into bisexuality. heck, I'd rather he wasn't available for new romance all together (for variety of reasons, one of them being - its been 3 years. he has tried to move on on a romanced Shepard, you mean he hasn't found a single person he might have liked in that time when not in romance with Shepard? :/)

but I always liked Kaidan, before or after the announcement.

Just wanna de-lurk for a moment and say I agree with you. I never got the "ghey" vibes from Kaidan playing as male or female.. I've always thought he was straight as well and would prefer him to stay straight. Nothing personal or against anyone, just a preference. Since it's "almost" confirmed he will be a bi romance, I just hope they make it clear if you play as female or male Shep... you'll know that he is bi, none of that DA2 stuff, using the term lightly here, but yeah the whole mono romance thing. It just feels soooo.. lazy.   :T

Modifié par Shoko86, 18 septembre 2011 - 03:24 .

[Ellyria]

Shoko86 wrote...

Just wanna de-lurk for a moment and say I agree with you. I never got the "ghey" vibes from Kaidan playing as male or female.. I've always thought he was straight as well and would prefer him to stay straight. Nothing personal or against anyone, just a preference. Since it's "almost" confirmed he will be a bi romance, I just hope they make it clear if you play as female or male Shep... you'll know that he is bi, none of that DA2 stuff, using the term lightly here, but yeah the whole mono romance thing. It just feels soooo.. lazy.   :T

Honestly, I'm more worried that the "ME1 faithful" romance between Kaidan/FShep or MShep/Ashley will be the almost identical to the "new ME3" romance between FShep/Kaidan or MShep/Ashley. 


As for making him Bi, I probably won't use said feature, so it doesn't matter to me if it's added or not, but I'll agree that if they pull a DA2 and both gendered romances are identical, I'll be a little miffed. And by little, I mean a lot. Especially if the "faithful romance" import has the same dialogue.  I would like us import junkies to be rewarded. 

[Labrev]

jeweledleah wrote...

see, I never understood the whole "ghey vibe" thing people keep harping about, from Kaidan. he always seemed like a regular guy to me, who most definitely liked women, and was professional/friendly towards men. I play malesheps and femsheps, incidentally. but what do I know :/

and yes, there are many people who kept claiming that Kaidan must have been gay because omg, he's nice and soft spoken, with a subtle sense of humor, and has a hair bump that is actually curly hair with high definition, but it must be hair gel (and straight men don't use hair gel, ever), and he has feelings! because of course all of those things define sexuality, amirite?

personally, I don't want him to be expanded into bisexuality. heck, I'd rather he wasn't available for new romance all together (for variety of reasons, one of them being - its been 3 years. he has tried to move on on a romanced Shepard, you mean he hasn't found a single person he might have liked in that time when not in romance with Shepard? :/)

but I always liked Kaidan, before or after the announcement.

I'll admit that, my first time playing ME1, I didn't pay an awful loot of attention to the guy and got the "ghey" vibe because of how soft he comes across. But at that time, I was just taking in the new game after having played ME2 a few times before. Didn't think much of Ashley either, was more interested in seeing Garrus/Tali/Liara because I knew about them.

After paying more attention to those two I had a complete 180 on both of them. I now think Kaidan is one of the best characters in the series. People throw the Jacob comparison around but I think they are almost nothing alike. It's a shame how many people think he's a whimp because he doesn't act all hardcore about everything and yell his battle dialogue at the top of his lungs.

[Kyakan]

I highly, highly doubt that the imported romance will be identical to the new romance. Bioware may have shafted the VS in ME2, but they're not *THAT* mean.

[syllogi]

Chylise wrote...

Shoko86 wrote...

Just wanna de-lurk for a moment and say I agree with you. I never got the "ghey" vibes from Kaidan playing as male or female.. I've always thought he was straight as well and would prefer him to stay straight. Nothing personal or against anyone, just a preference. Since it's "almost" confirmed he will be a bi romance, I just hope they make it clear if you play as female or male Shep... you'll know that he is bi, none of that DA2 stuff, using the term lightly here, but yeah the whole mono romance thing. It just feels soooo.. lazy.   :T

Honestly, I'm more worried that the "ME1 faithful" romance between Kaidan/FShep or MShep/Ashley will be the almost identical to the "new ME3" romance between FShep/Kaidan or MShep/Ashley. 


As for making him Bi, I probably won't use said feature, so it doesn't matter to me if it's added or not, but I'll agree that if they pull a DA2 and both gendered romances are identical, I'll be a little miffed. And by little, I mean a lot. Especially if the "faithful romance" import has the same dialogue.  I would like us import junkies to be rewarded. 

I'll never romance Kaidan (or anyone else) as a male character, but I do have (a teeny, tiny) hope that one or two female characters whom are already known will be available for f/f romance.  It would be hypocritical of me to want it for other characters, and not for him.  Also, I happen to think Kaidan is a very attractive character, so it makes sense for everybody to want him, male or female, LOL.  I would be very happy if it's confirmed that he's available for s/s romance in ME3.

Now, if it affects how he's written, and the new / same-sex romances are a carbon copy of the continuing romances, yeah, I will be sad.  But there's no guarantee that even if there are no other versions of his romance, that it will be epic and unique and well written.  We really can't judge, either way, until we've played the game.

The only Shepard I felt like playing ME2 with was the character who was staying single for Kaidan.  I had tried to be open to other LIs, but in the end, they did nothing for me.  Other people loved them, however, and I would never take away the legitimacy of their enjoyment of those storylines.  So it's entirely possible that what one person won't like in ME3 will be passionately loved by others.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[Caseshep]

I wasn't aware that Kaidan wouldn't be a "regular guy" if he preferred males or both genders.
And if he did prefer mShep and you didn't get "the gay vibe" from him...Well, people in everyday life have to hide their preference for the opposite gender for various reasons. He is a goddamn Marine and I don't think times have gotten more socially liberal in the ME universe.
Also, why does an attraction to Shepard have to automatically label Kaidan as strictly homosexual? Shepard's personality enthralls people. S/he's a natural leader and that is attractive to anyone. So yes, Kaidan may have seemed like "a regular guy" who "most definitely liked women," but then all that went out the door with mShep, because gender doesn't matter to him. Personality does.
I want LI's to be fair for everyone. I'm not going to tell someone that I hope they can't romance Kaidan with mShep when I'm romancing him with femShep if it degrades the quality of my romance. Because that's disrespectful and selfish.

[meonlyred]

Chylise wrote...

Honestly, I'm more worried that the "ME1 faithful" romance between Kaidan/FShep or MShep/Ashley will be the almost identical to the "new ME3" romance between FShep/Kaidan or MShep/Ashley. 


As for making him Bi, I probably won't use said feature, so it doesn't matter to me if it's added or not, but I'll agree that if they pull a DA2 and both gendered romances are identical, I'll be a little miffed. And by little, I mean a lot. Especially if the "faithful romance" import has the same dialogue.  I would like us import junkies to be rewarded. 

OMFG THIS! I will be beyond pissed if my Shepard who has been faithful every single playthrough I've done with her (Which btw it an embrassing amount) gets the same dialogue are an m/m or new romance does. Like burn down bioware HQ pissed... This is what I'm so afraid of. He will not be able to say "You're a hard woman to step away from." or "I've never meet a woman who could..." etc.

And I agree, I never got the gay vibe off a ManShep playthrough either. Seeing how flirtatious he is towards female Shepard vs how very much not he is towards male Shepard, I wonder how people got the "I hate him 'cause he is gay" thing. Its quite perplexing. Makes me wonder if we are playing the same game.

He might be a marine but he doesn't hide his affection towards FemShep, why would he hide it towards ManShep?

Modifié par meonlyred, 18 septembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[FireEye]

Ashley/Kaidan ficbit.

[Caseshep]

meonlyred wrote...

He might be a marine but he doesn't hide his affection towards FemShep, why would he hide it towards ManShep?

He's hesitantly flirtatious toward femShep. I imagine he would be way more hesitant if he preferred manShep, especially if he is supposed to be a stereotypically masculine marine.

[meonlyred]

But why? Its the future, I imagine almost 200 years from now we will be more open to non-straight relationships. If its okay for a human to have relations with a person who is not even of the same species, I can't imagine same sex being faux pas anymore. Or at least I hope that is the case.

It just seems like reconing him after them talking about having something for Rahna and seeing the difference between what he says and how he acts towards male vs female Shepard.

[Kyakan]

Why is everyone assuming that if he's bi in ME3, then he absolutely *MUST* have been attracted to ManShep in ME1? Lack of love-at-first-sight =/= Will never ever be attracted to them, ever.

Edit: Ah, balls, ToP.

Modifié par Kyakan, 18 septembre 2011 - 05:24 .