67443 réponses à ce sujet

[helenovision]

 I have to give my two cents on this, so, this is just my take on the whole thing.


I've often thought, what if Liara kept it to herself in case the Lazarus Project failed?  She could have told the VS, or whoever has more of a "right" to the remains/know of the remains, but what if, in all honesty, it didn't work out?  Maybe she didn't want to jinx it, kept her mouth shut, and tried to bury herself in her work, and doing something that she could actually do - work on saving Feron.  It would be better than giving these other people false hope.  And you have to think, it doesn't seem as if Cerberus was keeping in touch about the whole thing.  


"Oh, Liara, just calling to let you know we grafted Shepard's face back on!  Just calling to let you know Shepard starting breathing on his/her own today!"


When she sees you for the first time in ME2, she seems genuinely surprised.  "Shepard, you're alive!"  Now, I'm not saying that it isn't a possibility that she didn't know how progress on the Lazarus Project was going, and maybe she was just playing along or something, but if you've read Redemption,  it kind of hints at the chances of restoring Shepard seeming very slim.  Maybe in that case, ignorance was bliss.  Focus on getting Feron back, and if she never hears about Shepard again, she can assume the worst.


And while I've never been a fan of the "Liara is forced on you" opinion, I definitely see why it is commonly held.  I think it's a matter of POV.  I think that no matter what, Shepard is a big deal to her, and always will be.  Yes, it's hero worshipping, yes it's a bit stalkerish, BUT, remember her background.  She had to put up with the ridicule from her own people because of how she was born, and I'm sure that had some responsibility for her recluse lifestyle.  So, assume little to no friends for her entire life.  And then, here comes Commander Shepard, pretty much on a white horse, to her rescue.  The fearless, much admired, Shepard, who not only saves her, but includes her as a member of the team afterwards.  I think that alone speaks volumes for Liara's "obsessing" over Shepard.  Shepard makes her feel like she somewhat belongs, that she is part of something so important.  


I think that if any of us have ever known that one person in their life, that socially awkward, somewhat of a loner, and you take the time to befriend them, make them feel special, they start to cling a bit, and similiar things occur.  I'm not trying to make any excuses for stalkers of any kind, or any of that, I just feel that it's a relevant comparision, and maybe one to make this relatable.  Sometimes, those kind of people end up being an absolute headache...maybe fair to compare that group to Conrad Verner.  You do something nice for them, you take a moment to make them feel important, and you regret it for the rest of your life.  BUT, sometimes, those people can end up being the most loyal of friends.  Someone who always has your back, someone who (because I can't think of a very good parallel) would go through hell and back to get your body back...well, that sounds as stupid as I thought it would, but I hope you get my point.  Those people are the Liaras.


And, I know, the whole Prothean Beacon thing, too, but details, shmetails.



Also, that moment when you realize that this probably would have been better suited for another thread...oh well...D:



KAIDAN DEFENDS LIARA'S HONOR...um SURE WHY NOT 

Modifié par helenovision, 11 novembre 2011 - 07:06 .

[Pax of Doom]

PMC65 wrote...
No Horizon.

That's a definite silver lining. 

Silverpearl1977 wrote...
I don't hate Liara. Like I said before. I do see where Liara is coming from. I know she feels guilty as hell cause Feron sacrificed himself and she has lived with that guilt of not knowing if Feron is alive or not. Also for the last 2 yrs she has held onto a secret. She is also scared to death that you might hate her. What is bothering me is that most likely in ME3 they are just gonna zooooom over that topic like it never even happened. Like Batteries said if you don't pick the right convo you don't even get a confession from Liara. I just don't want SB dlc to be like the ok so now Shep knows...we are done with that plot and move on.
I want them to bring Liara handing your body over to Cerberus in ME3 so it makes Shep life a little easier and also so if your with Ashley/Kaidan they know you weren't lying to them about not being dead. Liara can say yes I saw Shep dead. I'm glad she gave me a second chance! At some point in time she should of told the people who loved you. Even despite her fears of how angry Kaidan/Ashley or Hannah your space mom might get. They had the right to know. I think us poor Sheps romancing Kaidan/Ashley is going to have one of the most strained beginning(rekindling) love relationship and a little help from Liara would be nice. Liara/Shep relationship reunion in ME3 is going to be smoother(unless you cheated) than a Kaidan/Ashley relationship going into ME3. So I DO NOT hate Liara. I just will rage like a nerd if they just bypass that whole plot point in ME3.

Well said, especially the bolded part.    And I'll echo what someone else posted, that my canon Shep's priority when accessing SB's files was to find any information on Kaidan.  Alas, no information.

And it's quiet in here!  Everyone must be playing Skyrim.  That's ok, more Kaidan for us. 



/not sure who made the gif, so credit goes to whomever it is.

[Jean]

Skyrim isn't even technically out where I am yet

I was talking to a friend who was going to go pick it up at midnight but he's gone silent lol



That particular scene with Kaidan/Ash defending the bomb while Shepard & co leave is awesome but depressing to watch.

Modifié par Batteries, 11 novembre 2011 - 07:22 .

[Clara Shepard]

Chylise wrote...

Pax of Doom wrote...

Chylise wrote...
I found it Pax, I found it!  It's a few posts up! (you'll need to zoom it) XD

Just saw it.  Sweet!!!  Poor Collectors, probably sitting through slideshow after slideshow of Kaidan's school years pre-BAaT, his military career...

Mama Alenko: And look, here's the time Kaidan took a bath in the kitchen sink.
Collectors: Awwwww.
Kaidan: ...Someone please shoot me now. *sigh*

Wait wait wait

Why have I heard something like that before.... except she was giving them pancakes!  I am somewhat starting to think these collectors visit often.   She's working for the collectors! :unsure:  but whyyyy?


EDIT: forgive my stupidity... I saw the comic... in other news I still believe Kaidan's mom to be evil  she told them where the cookie jar was... TRULY EVIL!!

Modifié par Clara Shepard, 11 novembre 2011 - 07:39 .

[Pax of Doom]

Clara Shepard wrote...
EDIT: forgive my stupidity... I saw the comic... in other news I still believe Kaidan's mom to be evil  she told them where the cookie jar was... TRULY EVIL!!

Yes, why would she make them pancakes?  Not to cast aspersions on her, of course, but making them breakfast, showing them baby Kaidan pictures... she's trying to hook Kaidan up with a Collector!    Now we know the real reason Shepard went after the Collectors.

[FireEye]

Pax of Doom wrote...

Yes, why would she make them pancakes?  Not to cast aspersions on her, of course, but making them breakfast, showing them baby Kaidan pictures... she's trying to hook Kaidan up with a Collector!    Now we know the real reason Shepard went after the Collectors.

... because they had pancakes.



... yum. 

Modifié par FireEye, 11 novembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[vulpesetuva]

Did someone say pancakes?



IF YOU ARE READING THIS AND DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED, SKIP THE NEXT PAGE!!! 

Trolls suck <_<

Modifié par vulpesetuva, 11 novembre 2011 - 06:18 .

[IdRatherBeSleeping]

^^Okay that is my favorite picture of Kaidan now.^^ And this is the best discussion of Kaidan ever; Kaidan and pancakes with hints of Pokemon!? Hooray! 

And maybe Mrs. Alenko is just rying to appease the collectors. Or maybe it's all a ruse and the collectors could be trying to use Mrs. Alenko decieve people into thinking they are no longer hostile . . . *ponders quitely while stroking an imaginary cat*

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

mineralica wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

Hahaha that's the first thing you did? I think people usually wait for the end game credits .

What can I say, RTFM (-ing?) is my way of life.

On a more realistic note: the closest normal game shop from my home requires 1,5 hrs on a tram. Freaking hour and a half. Alone. Sitting in tram. Had nothing to do. Have curiosity which always led me to strange places. Had box with just bought game with me.

That is long indeed. Still you know you're too smart for your own good when you manage to ruin the game on the ride home.

leggywillow wrote...

Naamah_bb wrote...

Have
you ever wondered why Shep didn't ask Liara anything about Kaidan when
she became the SB? I mean, she literally offers you ANY information
anywhere. The first thing my Shep would do is ask about Kaidan... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

I imagine that Shep was really side-eyeing Liara about that.  "Dossiers I might be interested in... you forwarded intel on Captain Bailey but couldn't even google Kaidan for me?  Really?"

I like
to think that Liara did it on purpose, since a romanced VS is obviously
competition for her: "Kaidan who?  I don't know anything about sexy
human men.  I did forward you an article on the health benefits of sex
with asari.  Just, you know, for purely informative purposes."

I distinctly remember her saying vaguely saying something to that
effect(oxymoron?). At least, she indeed describes Mr. & Mrs. VS as
"competition". I was like ooh the whole innocence thing was a facade, I like you.

sweekeny94 wrote...

What great picks these all are! I once
silk screened the 'Thunder Cats' logo on a mirror but it broke a while
back and I have never been the same. I also have it on a T-Shirt. I miss
all the good TV shows . . . Where did they go? I want to show my kids
the wonderful results of being shot in face with a shot gun or being
flattened by an anvil (I miss you 'Lonely Toons'). I turned out fine . .
. maybe. I need to buy DVDs of this stuff now so my kids can watch good
cartoons, that I will enjoying watching with them like my Dad did with
us.

Oh, my brother would kill me, but he desperately wanted to be
the pink Power Ranger. What was her name? Kim?

Yeah Kimberly, and the yellow one was Trini- which my dad always favoured in the fighting game we had[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie] I have a photographic memory for useless things. I too have two brothers but that didn't stop me from enjoying friends, everyone loves friends [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I'm sure you could have persuaded the pink ranger at least. Though watching it with family members there could be, awkward.. moments. I know I was hooked on thunder cats but was too young to remember what thehell it was about beyond cat people, and things like the Pink Panther. Daffy and Coyote I can remember a little better along with the extreme violence that is Tom & Jerry. My favourite blast from the past has to be Digimon though, it was smart, funny, deep and touching with adorable charcters, great music and full of big tear jekers, it didn't seem like children's entertainment or merchandising like Pokemon was.






















GET READY TO DODGE SPOILERS ON THE NEXT PAGE. :happy:
This has been a public service announcement by fdgvdd... ah sod it.

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 11 novembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Hotaru29]

helenovision wrote...

/picandbeautifulpostsnip

Sorry for snipping, but I don't wanna stretch the thread. 

All I have to say is.... 

Well I could say "marry me" wich seems a bit obsessive, so I'll resign myself to an "I completely agree with you".

[IdRatherBeSleeping]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

sweekeny94 wrote...

What great picks these all are! I once
silk screened the 'Thunder Cats' logo on a mirror but it broke a while
back and I have never been the same. I also have it on a T-Shirt. I miss
all the good TV shows . . . Where did they go? I want to show my kids
the wonderful results of being shot in face with a shot gun or being
flattened by an anvil (I miss you 'Lonely Toons'). I turned out fine . .
. maybe. I need to buy DVDs of this stuff now so my kids can watch good
cartoons, that I will enjoying watching with them like my Dad did with
us.

Oh, my brother would kill me, but he desperately wanted to be
the pink Power Ranger. What was her name? Kim?

Yeah Kimberly, and the yellow one was Trini- which my dad always favoured in the fighting game we had[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie] I have a photographic memory for useless things. I too have two brothers but that didn't stop me from enjoying friends, everyone loves friends [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I'm sure you could have persuaded the pink ranger at least. Though watching it with family members there could be, awkward.. moments. I know I was hooked on thunder cats but was too young to remember what thehell it was about beyond cat people, and things like the Pink Panther. Daffy and Coyote I can remember a little better along with the extreme violence that is Tom & Jerry. My favourite blast from the past has to be Digimon though, it was smart, funny, deep and touching with adorable charcters, great music and full of big tear jekers, it didn't seem like children's entertainment or merchandising like Pokemon was.

Ha ha, well I not only had two older brothers to follow me around, I had a steady stream of at least 6 other boys to deal with, so I knew I wasn't going to win that battle. And now the pink ranger brother is a bit of a macho man and is happy my mother wouldn't let him wear the pink costume. And  they were the ones who would persuade me. Because I was the small one, I was in charge of lurking about and finding the Christmas presents (they were so happy when I found 'Legand of Zelda: Majora's Mask'). They also once had me decapitate a stuffed Barney.

But I think I turned better having older brothers. They got me into gaming and the pink ranger introduced me to Mass Effect which, in turn, led me to Kaidan.

[Kaidan Fan]

My son has taken over the xbox with Skyrim so I am in Kaidan withdrawls! 

[Negam]

Poll time:

http://social.biowar...38/polls/26554/

Modifié par Negam, 11 novembre 2011 - 02:22 .

[IdRatherBeSleeping]

starwarsfan68 wrote...

My son has taken over the xbox with Skyrim so I am in Kaidan withdrawls! 

Here have some Kaidans!:innocent:


^^Love this one, I don't know why^^

http://t0.gstatic.co...Z6mAltCreGwrvrA
^^I am laughing uncontrollably now ^^


^^Hehehehe:bandit:^^

Is it obvious I am in a goofy mood right now?:innocent:

Modifié par sweekeny94, 11 novembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Estelindis]

On the Liara thing, I rather wish that more characters had really acted like Shepard had died. I know that they didn't actually know Shepard was coming back (even Liara only suspected, she didn't know Cerberus would succeed), but the writers made them act in the way that someone who knew that the main character would eventually be back to solve everything would act. As far as Shepard's squad was concerned, Shepard was really dead, and her/his death left them as the main witnesses to the Reapers. Didn't it really fall to each of them to do more than they did? I understand that each of them had their own lives and responsibilities. I also understand that none of them knew how soon the Reapers would be coming. At the same time, I genuinely feel that, once they learned about a threat of such magnitude, nothing else should have taken priority. Liara (and, if alive, Shiala) were the last ones to hold remnants of the prothean beacon in their minds. They needed to be protected and to be part of the core effort to prepare for the Reapers, helped by the rest of Shepard's squad / crew and any governments who could be persuaded to listen to them.

So that's really what gets me about what Liara does or doesn't do, but it rather applies to everyone else as well, including, yes, Kaidan.

It does bear asking: what if Liara had told Kaidan? How would he have reacted? Would it ultimately have led to an Alliance team tracking down Project Lazarus? Would Shepard still have been brought back?

Setting those concerns aside, I would like to see a scene where Liara tells Kaidan that she's sorry he suffered because she couldn't tell him about Shepard, but she's not sorry that what she did led to Shepard being brought back. I'd like to see some reciprocal words from him: he's sorry she decided to trust Cerberus more than him, but he, too, is glad that Shepard is back.

A word on the characters of Mass Effect: they are drawn with very few lines. (Compare how little dialogue they have with, say, the amount that DA:O characters get.) Some of those lines are subtle and delightful, certainly, but a lot of what we love about them is filled in between those lines - things about the characters that we extrapolate about them rather than what we're told directly. It's very possible for people to fill in less or more pleasant things, as they interpret the character, and I think they're just as valid. I do think it's more enjoyable to fill in pleasant things, though. :-)

Modifié par Estelindis, 11 novembre 2011 - 03:51 .

[Jade5233]

soren7550 wrote...

Ok, skimmed the last few pages, but I just really wanted to post this!:
http://www.facebook....f_t=share_reply

*hopping up & down in excitement*

I had my husband program the DVR for me.  Although I dodged questions as to why I was interested in penguins all of the sudden. 

Wow.  Good points, Helen.
I've never blaed Liara either.  I don't even dislike her--except when she ninjamanced my Kitty, which somehow undid my Kaidan romance without even the confrontation scene.  Then I was annoyed since I had to go back several hours of gameplay to fix it.  But other than that, she saved your body from the Collectors.  She gives you a warm welcome when you see her again in ME2 and she asks how you are doing after LotSB.  She's a true friend in my book.

[nikkylee]

Estelindis wrote...

On the Liara thing, I rather wish that more characters had really acted like Shepard had died. I know that they didn't actually know Shepard was coming back (even Liara only suspected, she didn't know Cerberus would succeed), but the writers made them act in the way that someone who knew that the main character would eventually be back to solve everything would act. As far as Shepard's squad was concerned, Shepard was really dead, and her/his death left them as the main witnesses to the Reapers. Didn't it really fall to each of them to do more than they did? I understand that each of them had their own lives and responsibilities. I also understand that none of them knew how soon the Reapers would be coming. At the same time, I genuinely feel that, once they learned about a thread of such magnitude, nothing else should have taken priority. Liara (and, if alive, Shiala) were the last ones to hold remnants of the prothean beacon in their minds. They needed to be protected and to be part of the core effort to prepare for the Reapers, helped by the rest of Shepard's squad / crew and any governments who could be persuaded to listen to them.

So that's really what gets me about what Liara does or doesn't do, but it rather applies to everyone else as well, including, yes, Kaidan.

I couldn't agree more, this actually really bothered me the first time I played through ME2... like... woah, not ONE of them is bothering to follow up on the whole "destroy all life" thing? Go team.

[Estelindis]

Yeah. I tend to blame the writers more than the characters, as such, but it's hard to know where to separate the two at times. The characters wouldn't exist at all if not for the writers.

[Chaos715]

For me, the only problem with Liara is that I'm a Kaidan fan, not Liara. At this point Bioware has, imo, just shown Liara's character way to much favoritism, there has just been way to much focus on her. It seems like Mass Effect is Shepards story and to a lesser extent Liara's story, where I would like it to be Shepard's story and to a lesser extent Kaidan's story, because he's my Shepard's love interest. He is what she is fighting for, on a personal level (and why the hell Shepard couldn't tell Liara that I'll never understand) and their story is why I am playing this game.

I really just want to know that there's an actual good reason that Kaidan and Ash have been treated the way they have. I really don't think there is one, and even if there were I'm pretty sure I'd never be satisfied with it but still...why have you done this to these characters? They were almost completely ignored in the DLC, except to be mentioned negatively, completely ignored in the dossiers (seriously, the shadow broker doesn't even know Kaidan's birthday?) and basically treated as the same person in the opening and on Horizon. Maybe they really don't want us to start off in a good place in ME3 with Kaidan and Ash but they've really gone out of there way (to what seems to me) to alienate these two. It's just extremely frustrating and miserable me, takes it out on Liara.

Modifié par Chaos715, 11 novembre 2011 - 10:16 .

[Ellyria]

mineralica wrote...

Well, I don't like Liara (don't like? Hehe, underestimation of a year), but know that some people in this thread do. May we please tone down discussion how guilty she is and what she deserves for it?

Thought this needed reposting.

[Estelindis]

I understand how you feel, Chaos. I'm a bit resentful too, but my feelings in that respect are solely for whoever in Bioware made the decision not to treat Ashley and Kaidan equally (not identically, equally) to Liara. I try not to let that bleed onto the character herself. Otherwise, I feel I'd be no different to those who mock Ashley and Kaidan's characters just because of how Bioware has chosen to treat them. As a fandom, I'd like us to be better than that.

Modifié par Estelindis, 11 novembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[Jade5233]

I take the favoritism feelings toward Liara with a grain of salt. Remember how strongly we felt that way about Garrus and Tali not so long ago? Liara is likely the easiest to push because she is the only full LI that can be romanced by either gender through the entire game.

And Sbarge has told us that Kaidan is in it A LOT. He has a big role in the story of ME3. Yes. I would have liked more interaction and closure with him in ME2. But again, remember that this is true a triology. Empire Strikes Back was not a happy film with a happy ending. The characters in the middle act of classic storytelling are in a dark place. I'm willing to hold my judgement on ME2;s story until I've finished ME3.

That being said, I am frequently frustrated in ME2 by the dialogue choices and action choices. I feel like my hands are tied behind my back with not being able to say or do what I want. But in a way, so is Shepard. She is also severely hampered by her circumstances. So in a way, it is good for role play. The frustration we feel as players parallels the frustration the character feels.

EDIT:  And another poll
http://social.biowar...38/polls/26558/

Modifié par Jade5233, 11 novembre 2011 - 04:19 .

[Joisan]

@Jade I'll admit, I haven't been following the discussion here much, but if the spoilers regarding Kaidan are true... this is not about favoritism toward Liara in ME2. This is about continuing favoritism toward Liara in ME3.

[Jade5233]

Joisan wrote...

@Jade I'll admit, I haven't been following the discussion here much, but if the spoilers regarding Kaidan are true... this is not about favoritism toward Liara in ME2. This is about continuing favoritism toward Liara in ME3.

No.  I understand that.  But we're getting a lot of Kaidan in the next game.  He's a "permanent" squadmate.  Sbarge has told us he's in the game A LOT.  He's also told us that the romance is steamy.  We know that Kaidan has dialogue recorded for the end of the game.  I haven't read the spoilers at all (and we're not discussing them here) and if Sbarge hadn't told us these things, I'd be more worried.  But we're getting the things that we all hoped for.  Why are we getting pissy because Liara gets "more"?  Can't we be happy with what we have?

EDIT:  TOP pic needed.  How about what we are looking forward to in ME3:

Modifié par Jade5233, 11 novembre 2011 - 04:29 .