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[meonlyred]

Batteries wrote...

he didn't blow up a chantry. that's light enough for me.

Kaidan blows up the Citadel.

In other news...

Wynnedfae

[MICHELLE7]

leborum wrote...

Batteries wrote...

he didn't blow up a chantry. that's light enough for me.

Oh god, he better not either.  I will rage if BW pulls an Anders with him in ME3.  But then again, even with the exploding chantry you can still have a happy ending.

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

[Lady Niltiak]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

Pitchforks at Bioware HQ at that point... 

[Fault Girl]

I agree with DA2, none of that Hawke leaving without their LI. At least they disappeared together!

Just hope with the end of ME3 there's none of that Warden/Revan syndrome.

Bioware are late in saying when the demo will be out they said late nov.

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:26 .

[Ellyria]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

leborum wrote...

Batteries wrote...

he didn't blow up a chantry. that's light enough for me.

Oh god, he better not either.  I will rage if BW pulls an Anders with him in ME3.  But then again, even with the exploding chantry you can still have a happy ending.

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

Ugh, honestly, when Anders blew up the Chantry, even though I had Hawke keep him alive and stay with him, I don't think I'd be able to if I were in Hawke's place. I mean, he's possessed, unpredictable, and does some very dubious things in Act III, how "happy" do you think the ending would really be? I'm gonna take a guess and say "not very happy". That's me though.

Just say NO to ILI: Indoctrinated Love Interests. <_< Of course, I'm sure if they were to make any of the LIs indoctrinated, it'll probably Kaidan/Ashley. Heaven forbid if any other LI were to get indoctrinated, but nobody cares about Kaidan/Ashley, right? *unimpressed face*

Modifié par Chylise, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:36 .

[Geirahod]

I'm very meh with the fact that some people now are declaring themselves as "fans" of Kaidan...now that ME3 will come out.

I'm guessing people forget very quickly one character...
Kaidan is awesome, in so many levels, that I think he don't deserve that kind of fans....Thankfully, he got us, we're loyal to his character, and we will love him anyways (I think even if BW does something against him).

[mineralica]

ZombieGeisha wrote...
<...>
Bioware are late in saying when the demo will be out they said late nov.

I thought "late November" referred to announcements of other ways to get early access to multiplayer part of game. More precisely, "late November - mid December". The demo itself was promised to January.

[Fault Girl]

mineralica wrote...

ZombieGeisha wrote...
<...>
Bioware are late in saying when the demo will be out they said late nov.

I thought "late November" referred to announcements of other ways to get early access to multiplayer part of game. More precisely, "late November - mid December". The demo itself was promised to January.

Sorry I meant they are late in telling us the announcement date for the demo

Serves me right for typing on my phone.

[leighzard]

Lady Niltiak wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

Pitchforks at Bioware HQ at that point... 

*Agrees wholeheartedly*

I was just wondering about when the demo was being released!  And since I didn't buy battlefield 3, will I still be able to get multiplayer access?

Edit: Found the answer.  Sort of.
http://social.biowar...53662/4#8555583

Modifié par leborum, 04 décembre 2011 - 07:04 .

[Jilinna]

Clara Shepard wrote...

-snips awesome argument about Horizon because I realized my response is very long-  

lol Clara, at least you didn't give him the foot of justice right?

Anyways, I agree with what you wrote. I think everyone can think about the VS situation any way they want to. Everyone has there own experiences and Shepards, so there will be a variety of interpretations, no one can deny that.

For instance I do play ME with my own personal feelings and self into each Shepard, I think to a varying degree everyone does that. Though at the same time I role play my shepard a lot differently each time I play  them. I base their personality on there psychological  profile and base how they would view things based on their personality, bias's, likes and dislikes I give each Shepard.

I have only 2 Shepard's that romanced Kaidan at the moment. One Shepard stayed faithful and the other Shepard moved on to Jacob. My canon Shepard, Arianna, stayed loyal because after she received his email, she finally cooled down and stopped being upset over the whole Horizon situation. She deceived to go through the events with Kaidan's view point. Basically this is how she thought of it...

Kaidan finds out Shepard does not survive the attack on the Normandy, and as Kaidan puts it, it "tore him apart", he ends up very distraught after Shepard's death, and it takes him awhile to put himself pack together and even attempts to start dating again. Then while Kadian is on the verge of healing and moving on, he finds out from reports and the alliance, that Shepard has been alive and kicking for 2 year, and is now working for a terrorist organization that is the Alliances prime suspect for the missing alliance colonies out in the Traverse.

First thing he would do is go in utter denial, and I suspect, defend Shepard and deny she is alive or would do such a thing. Later he finally finds out on Horizon that the reports were right, Shepard is alive and working for the enemy. Kaidan is now angry, like you see on Horizon, he is confused and cannot understand why shepard would betray the alliance or him, the facts and the Shepard he loved and thought he knew, don't add up.

My Shepard was a sole survivor, earth-born kid, and Kaidan knew that (my) Shepard would rather die than work for the people that killed and experimented on her squad back on Akuze, so to see her working for them didn't make sense, he didn't know what to believe anymore. To add insult to injury Shepard doesn't look like she hates being with Cerberus, she doesn't drop all of her things and leave with him, she instead tells Kaidan to drop all of his things and work for Cerberus. 

For my Shepard that is when he snaps, and just cannot understand why Shepard would be working for Cerberus, and all he is getting is still the same reports feed to him calling Shepard a traitor, and as a result doesn't know what to believe anymore.

His heart cannot believe that Shepard, whom he loved, is a traitor but his head cannot believe otherwise because all the reports and Shepard standing in front of him with Cerberus, just strengthen's Shepards guilt. That is how I explain Kaidan's behavior on Horizon for My Canon Shepard. (Each Shepard I have looks at it differently)

Based on her analysis, she would be mad at Kaidan too if the roles were reversed. She is still hurt by Horizon, but because she said the wrong things and made matters worst. Arianna Shepard still has feelings for him, and when she finally received the email, her hope is renewed and she just categorizes Horizon as a argument that was caused based on misunderstanding and time apart. So for that Shepard, she is hoping maybe their relationship can be rekindled during ME3.

Though for my second Shepard she saw it differently. She was a colonist, war hero, & I RP so her experience as a child reflects a lot of her experiences and love life. Kaidan leaving her literally tore her apart, it was like mindoir all over again but instead it was her death that drove her love, Kaidan, away and the not the batarians. She was very distraught and even the email just made her more upset over what they lost. She hated being stuck in a place she didn't want to be, she basically held it together just for the crew, at that point she didn't care if she lived or not.

It was Jacob that talked her through the whole ordeal, and made her feel special again. I see Shepard's very terrible first advances on Jacob, as a mask for what she felt, she was trying to act smooth and play off the Horizon incident as not a big deal to everyone else,  but in reality it was opposite.

It was Jacob that allowed her to open up, and was the only one that asked her what burdens she was carrying and if she wanted to talk about them. Gabriella was taken off guard by it and eventually fell for Jacob, she really needed Jacob to go through her time on the SR2 with, he was her stabilizing element, and the reason she made it out of the collector ship alive. It gave her purpose and so when ME3 comes along she will have a very hard decision to make between Kaidan and Jacob. Though at this point she will most likely stay with Jacob, though I will decide while in the moment and playing.

TL;DR - Point being every person plays there Shepard differently, saying one way is better than the other is petty, and does not encapsulate all the emotions Kaidan and Shepard could feel during the incident. Like for me, I RP my Shepard's differently so they each have their own view on Horizon, and honestly it keeps my games fun. Each view of Horizon is going to be different to each person, and so I think we need to be tolerant of each point of view.

lol I think this makes up for me not posting anything in the Kaidan thread for a week right?

EDIT: Holy! I didn't realize how much I typed, yikes! It's the first time I actually wrote about Horizon, I guess I got it all out of my system now!

Modifié par Jilinna, 04 décembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[Kaidan Fan]

Well said Clara and Jilinna.

[catgirl789]

leborum wrote...

--jacqui wrote...

OK! I'm back. Forgive my tardiness, please. Not to be a big bummer, but I spent most of this week at the hospital due to a family emergency. BUT, here I am. And Raphael and I wanted to bounce something off you all before we go crazy with it.

So the Christmas surprise? Is going to be auctioning off personalized MP3s from Raphael, to you (or your sister, wife, girlfriend, husband, boyfriend, brother, whatevs). The nitty-gritty:

-- All moneys raised will go to GreenWish, the environmental charity that Raphael founded.

-- The MP3s will be delivered via email by Christmas.

Our question: What type of message do you think people would want?

GREETING FROM RAPHAEL TO WINNER: "Hi, this is Raphael Sbarge, saying hi to [Bob/Bobbi]."

MESSAGE TO USE AS YOUR OUTGOING MESSAGE: "Hi. You've reached [Bob/Bobbi]. S/he can't come to the phone right now..."

Or, I'm guessing, something more Kaidan-y?

Ideas? Hit me.

First off, Jacqui, so sorry to hear about your family.  Hope everything will be okay.

Next...
Omigod, I am going to die of squee.
Something like above, with references to saving the galaxy (ex. Leigh can't answer the phone because she's saving your ass from Reapers) because I'm going to spend most of next year in ME3 playthroughs, obvi, would be amazing!

^^^^^
This please. Thank you for thinking of us, both of you.

Also I hope all is well with you're family.

[MICHELLE7]

Lady Niltiak wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

Pitchforks at Bioware HQ at that point... 

lol maybe Hawke could entice Anders to take vengeance for the injustice done to the VS.

[sesheta255]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Lady Niltiak wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

Pitchforks at Bioware HQ at that point... 

lol maybe Hawke could entice Anders to take vengeance for the injustice done to the VS.

Damn, now all my Hawkes will have to start dabbling in necromancy, or find a mage who does anyway, lol

Modifié par sesheta255, 04 décembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[foxtrotcharlie]

Mesina2 wrote...

Horizon is bad( the worst moment in ME2 as well) do to Shepard's horrible dialogue there.
Even worse if you romanced VS. 

A lot of people have varying opinions on their interpretations of Horizon, which arguably range from cold to lukewarm feelings, and I think that this is a telling aspect of the entire scene.  

I am going to be upfront here, and although I am usually Miss Optimistic, I have to voice my own true opinion. As a Kaidan fan, whose Shepard was in a romance with him, I was severly deflated after the encounter on Horizon.  But this isn't the same kind of deflated that happens after your favorite character dies, or betrays the main character in a well-written story, it's more of a '....that's it?' feeling.  

The worst part of this debate is that I truly understand other people's detailed interpretations of the scene: that Kaidan was confused and angry, Shepard truly did not comprehend the amount of time that had passed between them, ect. The list goes on.  And I have no doubt that your interpretations are correct.  However, what troubled me the most was how these feelings were expressed through the dialogue. 

What happened: 

• Kaidan is relieved to see Shepard.
• Shepard says something like, "How've you been, buddy?"
• Kaidan grows angry at Shepard's reason for her /his disapearence
• Shepard tries to explain that he/she was dead for 2 years.
• Kaidan explains his mistrust of Cerberus and loyalty to the Alliance

End Scene

In minimalist terms, it doesn't seem so bad (besides Shepard's intial dialogue...uggh<_<) But the execution of this truly comes out lacking.  Granted, the complexity of the emotions between the two is very great, but it was something that the talented Bioware writers should have taken into consideration.  

I think that this was a massive consipriacy constructed so that Shepard would be encouraged to hate the VA and move on to the vast array of new romances.  I am sure that I was not alone in that immediately after Horizon, I was so pissed at Kaidan, I considered romancing Garrus again.  I resited though, (as much as I love Garrus, my other Shepard will be happy enough with him. )

• For the scene to be more heartbreaking, more emotional, and all-arround compelling, I think that there should have been more conflict seen through Kaidan (Ashley as well). In game, he seems to hide his other emotions through his indignation and anger, thus making him appear (at least me me, and many other gamers) unreasonable, unlikeable, uncharacteristic.   He never seems to grasp the concept that Shepard's actions may be a necessary evil, that he/she was literally dead for two years, that the collectors are systematically killing off the human colony worlds---almost comically so, (because of how much the player knows is true, Kaidan seems almost like a guy angrly yelling 'La, la, la' with his hands over his ears). 
• First off, the scene should have been longer, with Shepard and Kaidan privately going off to wait for the shuttle, and to talk about what occured at Horizon, what occured after Shepard died, ect. This would have been a perfect opportunity for the vast array of emotions to come out:  intial anger at her compliancy with Cerberus, stoic understanding about Shepard's explaination about Cerberus and what happened to her/him, relief/happiness at Shepard's familiar self, confusion at his own moral feelings of her working for Cerberus, the list goes on.
• Through dialogue choices, I think that it would be a richer scene if Kaidan actually did begin to understand where Shepard was coming from, albeit not without his reservations of course, and he might even still harbor some anger or confusion. But if constructed in a way where Kaidan would voice very legitimate concerns about the suspicions about the strings attatched, perhaps which would remind the player of the true meanicing side of Cerberus, bringing about doubts about the Illusive Man and the collectors which are truly never completely apparent in the game.

Which leads to my other problem in the game with the organization of Cerberus.  Throughout the game, excepting in little instances where people would say that it was a terrorist organization, there is atoundingly little first-hand evidence that it truly is as horrible as people say.  (in ME2, not ME1)

• Jack wasn't experiemented on under the Illusive Man
• Project Overlord was going to be shut down by the Illusive Man before it went haywire
• They are the only organization willing to stop the Collectors
• They brought your back to freakin' life
• Everyone on the Normandy is kind, considerate, and either doen't fully know Cerberus's history, or doesn't care

On that note, if meeing the VA on Horizon could jerk Shepard awake, in that, they could truly show and explain the true face of Cerberus, this would be a great plot point.  

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 04 décembre 2011 - 09:52 .

[TheComfyCat]

Interesting Horizon posts today! I agree with a lot of what's been said, especially about Shep's derpy dialogue.

foxtrotcharlie wrote...

*snip*

Which leads to my other problem in the game with the organization of Cerberus.  Throughout the game, excepting in little instances where people would say that it was a terrorist organization, there is atoundingly little first-hand evidence that it truly is as horrible as people say.  (in ME2, not ME1)

• Jack wasn't experiemented on under the Illusive Man
• Project Overlord was going to be shut down by the Illusive Man before it went haywire
• They are the only organization willing to stop the Collectors
• They brought your back to freakin' life
• Everyone on the Normandy is kind, considerate, and either doen't fully know Cerberus's history, or doesn't care

On that note, if meeing the VA on Horizon could jerk Shepard awake, in that, they could truly show and explain the true face of Cerberus, this would be a great plot point.  

In ME lore (in the games and books), there is ample evidence that Cerberus is a terrorist orginization that will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals. In game, at least in ME2, I think the writers were trying to give us a first-hand view that had more shades of gray. We only got hints here and there of the true nature of Cerberus, but what seemed to be the best "first-hand example" of their questionable/ cruel methods is how manipulative TIM is. He's always pulling the strings behind Shepard's back, always directing Shepard while trying to orchestrate the outcome the way he wants it to go.

That being said, I'm not convinced that TIM didn't really know about Jack or Overlord. EDI said he didn't keep more cells open than he could monitor individually, after all. We only have the perspective of the people in the cells; who knows what TIM was actually aware of at that point, and whether or not he was willing to let it go farther if the projects had been more successful. Even if Shepard calls out TIM, it's quite easy for him to deny/ rationalize everything to make Shepard happy enough to keep working for him, and hopefully happy enough to deliver a Collector base.

Anyway, this comic by the wonderful Aimo seems appropriate in light of the Horizon discussion. Slightly NSFW so I linked it.

[Lyriel25]

--jacqui wrote...

OK! I'm back. Forgive my tardiness, please. Not to be a big bummer, but I spent most of this week at the hospital due to a family emergency. BUT, here I am. And Raphael and I wanted to bounce something off you all before we go crazy with it.

So the Christmas surprise? Is going to be auctioning off personalized MP3s from Raphael, to you (or your sister, wife, girlfriend, husband, boyfriend, brother, whatevs). The nitty-gritty:

-- All moneys raised will go to GreenWish, the environmental charity that Raphael founded.

-- The MP3s will be delivered via email by Christmas.

Our question: What type of message do you think people would want?

GREETING FROM RAPHAEL TO WINNER: "Hi, this is Raphael Sbarge, saying hi to [Bob/Bobbi]."

MESSAGE TO USE AS YOUR OUTGOING MESSAGE: "Hi. You've reached [Bob/Bobbi]. S/he can't come to the phone right now..."

Or, I'm guessing, something more Kaidan-y?

Ideas? Hit me.

Guess this is odd, but since I want to be hearing the message (without calling myself ), could it be something we could turn into a ringtone? Something like "Hey, Lyriel - I know you're busy saving the galaxy, but this call might be important..." or some such. But really, whatever he wants to do is great .

[sesheta255]

Yeah TIM is too much of a control freak not to have known exactly what was going on on Pragia. Not to mention Project Overlord as well. He was quite happy to subject an autistic kid to his experiments to further his vision of humanity. Shepard knew she was being manipulated but you virtually have to go with the 'any means to an end' line of thinking.

I really hate that line in LotSB where Shep says something along the lines of she knows what Cerberus is and what they've done but it doesn't matter. It damn well mattered to my Shepards, especially the sole survivors.

Shepard and Kaidan saw first hand what Cerberus were capable of in ME1., so I can't blame Kaidan for calling Shep a traitor for being with Cerberus. Hell, I was abusing my Shepard out loud and calling her much worse up until Horizon for working with Cerberus, much to the amusement of my sons, lol. I've always believed that Kaidan really didn't know or believe that Shepard had actually been dead, something that I think will be addressed in ME3, unless the writers want everyone to still keep hating the VS.

[Mandalina]

Getting ready to watch last weeks episode of Once Upon a Time... Mr. Sbarge is thread appropriate right?

[Ellyria]

senorfuzzylips wrote...
Anyway, this comic by the wonderful Aimo seems appropriate in light of the Horizon discussion. Slightly NSFW so I linked it.

O.O

*faints*

Mandalina wrote...

Getting ready to watch last weeks episode of Once Upon a Time... Mr. Sbarge is thread appropriate right?

Archie needed lots of hugs in that episode. *sniffle*

Modifié par Chylise, 04 décembre 2011 - 11:36 .

[MICHELLE7]

sesheta255 wrote...

I really hate that line in LotSB where Shep says something along the lines of she knows what Cerberus is and what they've done but it doesn't matter. It damn well mattered to my Shepards, especially the sole survivors.

Shepard and Kaidan saw first hand what Cerberus were capable of in ME1., so I can't blame Kaidan for calling Shep a traitor for being with Cerberus. Hell, I was abusing my Shepard out loud and calling her much worse up until Horizon for working with Cerberus, much to the amusement of my sons, lol. I've always believed that Kaidan really didn't know or believe that Shepard had actually been dead, something that I think will be addressed in ME3, unless the writers want everyone to still keep hating the VS.

I think the devs said something about Shep being forced to work for Cerberus in ME2 but the player getting to decide in ME3 if their Sheps agreed with it. None of mine will. As for the second part...I wondered the same thing....if Kaidan really believed she had been dead...resurrecting a person from what was left of Shep is pretty hard to swallow.

Getting ready to watch last weeks episode of Once Upon a Time... Mr. Sbarge is thread appropriate right?

First episode of Once Upon a Time that I actually cried...best one yet.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 04 décembre 2011 - 11:44 .

[foxtrotcharlie]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

In ME lore (in the games and books), there is ample evidence that Cerberus is a terrorist orginization that will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals. In game, at least in ME2, I think the writers were trying to give us a first-hand view that had more shades of gray. We only got hints here and there of the true nature of Cerberus, but what seemed to be the best "first-hand example" of their questionable/ cruel methods is how manipulative TIM is. He's always pulling the strings behind Shepard's back, always directing Shepard while trying to orchestrate the outcome the way he wants it to go. 

You have a point with the fact that the Illusive Man is truly the puppetmaster in this game.  But, perhaps the biggest issue I had was the fact that Shepard always seemed to underestimate his true power, or their true intentions.  There was always suspicion, especially if you were paragon, but perhaps my biggest issue was Shepard's acting that the Illusive Man was under her/his control or that they were in control of the situation.  That, I think, in the Horizon scene, was Kaidan's biggest worry through Shepard's 'derpy' dialogue.  Shepard seems to act like, "Oh, Cerberus?--- Nothin important.  The Illusive Man?--- He's totally my ****.  I'm just using them for the time being until this whole situation is over with.
Shepard: 
Kaidan: 

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 04 décembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[MICHELLE7]

sesheta255 wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Lady Niltiak wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

The happy ending was one of the few things they got right. I guess indoctrination would be the reason for ooc behavior in ME3 as opposed to Justice in DA2. I just hope they don't indoctrinate the VS.

Pitchforks at Bioware HQ at that point... 

lol maybe Hawke could entice Anders to take vengeance for the injustice done to the VS.

Damn, now all my Hawkes will have to start dabbling in necromancy, or find a mage who does anyway, lol

lol if you need an Anders for the uprising you can always borrow one of mine...I've got 7 of them...all alive and crazy(some more than others) but still kicking.

[sesheta255]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

lol if you need an Anders for the uprising you can always borrow one of mine...I've got 7 of them...all alive and crazy(some more than others) but still kicking.

I might need to take you up on that, lol.  Anders didn't survive any of my DA2 games.  I really loved his character in DAA, and looked forward to being able to romance him, until I actually started playing DA2.  So I really hope that Kaidan stays true to character in ME3 and doesn't pull an Anders.

[MICHELLE7]

sesheta255 wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...

lol if you need an Anders for the uprising you can always borrow one of mine...I've got 7 of them...all alive and crazy(some more than others) but still kicking.

I might need to take you up on that, lol.  Anders didn't survive any of my DA2 games.  I really loved his character in DAA, and looked forward to being able to romance him, until I actually started playing DA2.  So I really hope that Kaidan stays true to character in ME3 and doesn't pull an Anders.

As luck would have it I played DA2 before actually getting Awakenings so for me he was a new character...I did go back and play DAA later and I understand why a lot of people were dissappointed in what was done to him. I think they would have been better off just bringing in somone new to fill that role than drastically change a character that had already been established in everyone's minds.

As for Kaidan not only am I hoping they don't change his character...I'm hoping they don't do to him what they did to Garrus...but what can I say I think Kaidan is the best looking male LI out there...I don't want to see his pretty face marred. Yeah, I know that's vain and shallow.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 05 décembre 2011 - 12:28 .