67443 réponses à ce sujet

[mllrthyme]

Batteries wrote...

I did play one Renegade/Renegon fShep and I had so much fun doing it.

All my playthroughs are varying degrees of Renegon/Renegade and I love it!  My 1 paragon playthrough is such a goober.  I'm not too fond of her.
As far as renegade goes, though, I can see how a lot of players think it's douchy.  It really depends on how you RP a situation.  For instance, my Sheps tend not to leave any loose strings - some are quite strict with this rule.  My Uber-renegade always kills the colonists on Feros because not only are they a current threat to her survival and the success of the mission, but who knows if the gas will work?  She doesn't want possessed plant-husks continually hounding her steps, so she opts to eliminate the possibility of complications.  And yes, Kaidan does go nuts and shoots up the colony.  That man is great at following orders.

@Lyriel - happy Bday soon - later this week is it?
@ about Anderson - I think he stonewalled Shep simply because she was working for Cerberus, but the VS is a different story.  I don't think Anderson had all the facts.  Like Kaidan says on Horizon, Shep was just a rumor.

[meonlyred]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

meonlyred wrote...

From the leaked demo we do know the first words Kaidan and Shepard will probably exchange.
Shepard: "Kaidan?!"
Kaidan: "Shepard?!"

Vega: "Vega!"

LMAO! YES!!!!

Modifié par meonlyred, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[DarkPsylocke26]

I hope this picture works. It's Revan calling Carth a Hairless Wookie. That would be funny Shepard call Kaidan that. Then Kaidan asking what is a Hairless Wookie.

[shepskisaac]

Chylise wrote...

Didn't TIM start the rumors about Shepard being alive and working for Cerberus before Shepard had even woken up? Anderson says something about how he sent the VS to Horizon because of the rumors about Cerberus kidnapping colonists before they even heard the rumors about Shepard. For all we know, the stonewalling was before Shepard goes to meet with Anderson on the Citadel, and wouldn't really be stonewalling the VS because they were only rumors and Anderson didn't actually know anything. Without knowing exactly when the exchange between the VS and Anderson took place, it's hard to tell.


Apparently it's just easy to hate the VS, instead of people who created the circumstances for Horizon (Anderson, Liara, TIM, etc). <_<

The way it is written clearly implies IMO that Anderson already knew about Shep being alive when VS question him about and he deliberaely kept it from VS. And Anderson knew about Shep after Freedom's Progress. When you complete it, you already have Anderson's massage waiting. So I think VS questioned Anderson sometimes between Freedom's Progress & Horizon.

Ehh, really, as much as I sometimes try to make sense of it all, the fact Shep doesn't have an option to contact VS really is the worst part of the entire thing. It would make sense VS wouldn't just "blind-email" Shep based on crazy-sounding rumors, or that VS heard the rumors very late and didn't even have time to send an email. but it makes no sense why Shep couldn't just email VS. He was railroaded into this for the sake of VS having a reason to be more angry. And it actually was a good reason. VS reaction is realistic. But it shouldn't be mandatory. There should've been an option to email VS which would change the tone of the Horizon meeting. Nothing else would have to change in the game. The fact Shep is working with Cerberus and there is a possibility he MAY be controlled is enough of a perfectly logical and legitimate reason for VS (a high-ranking Alliance soldier) not to join Shep in ME2. So they didn't really have to railroad everyone into the additional conflict based on the fact Shep didn't contact VS. Cerberus thing alone would be enough. And giving players the opption to contact VS wouldn't have to change the timing/place of their first meeting either. It ain't like VS could/would just abandon their current mission and run to check on Shep. They could still wait till Horizon meeting which could go similar way, regarding the Cerberus thing, but without the 'why haven't you contacted me' part. And this choice (contacting/not-contacting VS) could be incorporated into the relations with VS in ME3.

So really, they should've just prepared more variations of the Horizon scene. And make Kaidan/As dialogues more different as well. It was such a short scene that creating different versions would require only a handful of extra dialogues, but would've changed so much for the better. But well, we have to live with it. And my Shep WILL say sorry in ME3 for not contacting Kaidan because as much as I may not like that he was railroaded into this, it is canon, part of the story and what he did... :/

EDIT: Ohh yeah, and there should've been a different email for non-VS-romance Sheps as well. Really, VS was just half-asses in ME2... Bare minimum was did with them........

Modifié par IsaacShep, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:44 .

[LadyofRivendell]

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

I hope this picture works. It's Revan calling Carth a Hairless Wookie. That would be funny Shepard call Kaidan that. Then Kaidan asking what is a Hairless Wookie.
-snip-

Man, all the KotOR stuff has made me want to continue playing it! Curse you, Windows 7 *shakes fist*

[Ellyria]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

I hope this picture works. It's Revan calling Carth a Hairless Wookie. That would be funny Shepard call Kaidan that. Then Kaidan asking what is a Hairless Wookie.
-snip-

Man, all the KotOR stuff has made me want to continue playing it! Curse you, Windows 7 *shakes fist*

Awwww. 

It's funny for me because Windows 7 ran KotOR just fine, but then I put in a new video card and it stopped working. So my husband downloaded some program for the video card and it worked again.

[Mandalina]

Multiplayer? Don't play with me, I swear a lot. >:

[Avorous]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

DarkPsylocke26 wrote...

I hope this picture works. It's Revan calling Carth a Hairless Wookie. That would be funny Shepard call Kaidan that. Then Kaidan asking what is a Hairless Wookie.
-snip-

Man, all the KotOR stuff has made me want to continue playing it! Curse you, Windows 7 *shakes fist*

*de-lurks* 

I got it to work on Windows 7. If you follow the first and second post (Astro and Q )  here
--> http://lucasforums.c...ad.php?t=194296 then they give you very helpful (if very long) instructions on how to get it to work on Vista and 7. That's how I got it to work on my laptop anyhow, and I haven't had it crash on me at all either.

And...to keep it on Kaidan. Have a Shoko arts.  shoko86.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4avh5p

Anyways, I hope this is at least a little bit helpful.  Now I'm going to go back to the shadows of the internet...>.> 

*re-lurks* 

Modifié par Avorous, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[Soccerchic6]

meonlyred wrote...

Well why would Shepard contact Kaidan? Yes, if Shepard romances Kaidan they love each other and so on. But ME2 reminds you a million times that they are on a suicide mission. What if Shepard contacts Kaidan again? They get together. Have another loving moment. Then Shepard dies again in the suicide mission. What would that do to Kaidan? I like to think that Shepard understood that. Hints the the reason for the derpy dialogue on Horizon. They can't just pick up where they left off. Any good intentions got kind of messed up by the argument.

If Shepard isn't romantic then they are only friends. How much resources and time should Shepard waste trying to find one person?

Yes, this is what I believe, too. In a fic I wrote a long time ago, this is exactly how my Shep felt.  She tried writing back to Kaidan after receiving his e-mail but just couldn't put him through that again if she were to die.  It broke her heart to hear him say that it took two years to pull himself together.  He is the main reason she's fought to stay alive and come back from Omega 4, though. 

Gosh, I cannot wait to see him in ME3!  I saw video of the leak, and I'm anxious to know if that's what's going to remain in the final game.  I think the first time I see him in ME3, my heart is going to explode, lol.

[mineralica]

Chylise wrote...

Ooo, I just did ME1 so I know what you're
talking about. After the Citadel, Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and Ashley all
would talk to me, but Kaidan wouldn't until I completed Therum. However,
with Ashley that balanced out, because after I did Feros, before going
to Virmire, she gave me the "I have to clean weapons, can't talk" line.

The
way Kaidan is presented doesn't really give a good impression if you
play a male character, IMO. If you're female, after Eden Prime you can
talk to Kaidan and Ashley. If you're male, you can only talk to Ashley.
After the Citadel, Ashley will talk to you, but Kaidan won't.
Conspiracies afoot!

Yes, this! Ashley talks about aliens better not know all secrets of Normandy (CIC, engine).

MICHELLE7 wrote...


If any of you replaying ME1 are doing renegade and decide to kill everyone on Feros watch for Kaidan's behavor...he had me rolling on the floor. I told him to take out the civilians and he went nuts. Ran off and killed everyone before I could get in a shot...I was like waaaa...blew me away.

Reminds of:

Citadel:
Wrex: So, your biotics are really impressive. At last fight you seem to surprise yourself.
Kaidan: I've hold back before Eden Prime. Was afraid to hurt someone, I guess. But now <...>

Immediately after, random colony:
Me (thinking): I hope "hold back own biotics" guy will generate Lift field for long enough to keep that nasty snipers busy while Shepard will get close with shotgun?
Kaidan: 'Lift' 'Throw' (mercs are launched to not so stationary orbit) YES!!!
Me: Okay:blink: Whatever you like:huh: Mr. "Permanent in combat squad":devil:

[MICHELLE7]

Most of my anger about Horizon was towards TIM...to me he orchestrated the whole thing...just the way I saw it.

About Anderson...And this is just my perspective...I kinda felt like he was afraid that if Kaidan found out about Shepard being alive that Kaidan would go join Shep.

I mean if you play it one way Shep and Kaidan are friends and he looks up to Shep as role model...and if he's romanced the temptation would be even stronger to go with Shep.

Of course and this is just going into speculation here...if the romance came into play just how much did Anderson know? How well did Kaidan handle Shep's death? And how did it affect him even physically? I know that stress can mess with L2's...think I read on the wiki that extreme emotional stress can even lead to insanity. He did tell Shep that she didn't know what she put him through.

If Anderson witnessed any kind of adverse reaction that Kaidan had over Shep's death he might simply of been protecting Kaidan. Maybe he wasn't sure Kaidan could handle it.

Then again any extreme reaction could have also raised the flag that Kaidan and Shep were more than just shipmates...another reason for Anderson to fear that Kaidan might choose Shep over the Alliance.

Sometimes I wonder if he'd let Shep know would it have made a difference...if Shep had been able to have a conversation with Kaidan before the showdown on Horizon would he have been able to get past it enough to join her after Horizon...guess we'll never know...unless we go to an alternate universe.lol

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:32 .

[Graceyn]

IsaacShep wrote...

noxpanda wrote...

Anderson doesn't stop kai/ash from investigating the colonies, he actually states that he ok'ed the mission to horizon.

You're right, but he does try to keep away the fact Shep is alive from VS. Kaidan talks how he stonewalled him and Ash says how he wouldn't say anything when she went to him. I get it may be because Anderson's concerned about the fact Shep is working with Cerberus, but then why he ain't getting any 'Anderson dares to question my Shep?!?!' rants VS gets constantly...

meonlyred wrote...

If you return to him after Horizon and talk to him again about Kaidan, he will explain why he didn't give Shepard full disclosure about Kaidan. He isn't sure Shepard isn't being controlled by Cerberus.

Ohhhh! I never knew that! Very interesting. Then he indeed tried to separate them. Still doesn't really make Shepard wouldn't contact VS some other way, but that's part of railroading Shep into conflict with VS by not giving him options to do things the players would want to do.

I'm dealing with this a bit in "If It Meant Living", not so much off-canon as expanding on what was implied by both conversations with Anderson and Horizon.  It does paint Anderson as kind of a bad guy of necessity, trying to do the right thing in his job but having to deceive Kaidan and Shepard to do it.  Which, I think, is mostly the truth.

Also, after reading the books I don't think Anderson would be conspiring with Cerberus (re LotSB vid) - it's either an Alliance mole or he's running an op against Cerberus.

As to why Shepard can't initiate contact with Kaidan, other than the fact that it's a video game and they can place whatever restrictions they want, I too find this quite absurd from a realism standpoint.  I'm really thinking that by this time each individual has a permanent, lifetime contact address (future email address).  For the fic, I've just chosen to accept that such a thing does not exist - but the Normandy messaging system sure as hell has a "Reply" button .

[meonlyred]

My Shepard doesn't contact Kaidan because she doesn't know what he has been up to. Its been two flipping years. He could be married and had kids. He could be be on some important mission (which he was). He could have even retired from the Alliance. Shepard doesn't know. She didn't feel it was her place to jump back into his life and make him feel obligated to be bound in a relationship with her after two long years. It might have only been a short time for her but she realized its been a long time for him.

She doesn't respawn to his message because she doesn't want to promise him anything she can't deliver. She still loves him and cares deeply for him but she thinks their relationship is over. She also understands that her own personal desires come second to saving the galaxy.

Modifié par meonlyred, 12 décembre 2011 - 09:07 .

[mineralica]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Most of my anger about Horizon was towards TIM...to me he orchestrated the whole thing...just the way I saw it.

About Anderson...And this is just my perspective...I kinda felt like he was afraid that if Kaidan found out about Shepard being alive that Kaidan would go join Shep.

I mean if you play it one way Shep and Kaidan are friends and he looks up to Shep as role model...and if he's romanced the temptation would be even stronger to go with Shep.

Of course and this is just going into speculation here...if the romance came into play just how much did Anderson know? How well did Kaidan handle Shep's death? And how did it affect him even physically? I know that stress can mess with L2's...think I read on the wiki that extreme emotional stress can even lead to insanity. He did tell Shep that she didn't know what she put him through.

If Anderson witnessed any kind of adverse reaction that Kaidan had over Shep's death he might simply of been protecting Kaidan. Maybe he wasn't sure Kaidan could handle it.

Then again any extreme reaction could have also raised the flag that Kaidan and Shep were more than just shipmates...another reason for Anderson to fear that Kaidan might choose Shep over the Alliance.

Sometimes I wonder if he'd let Shep know would it have made a difference...if Shep had been able to have a conversation with Kaidan before the showdown on Horizon would he have been able to get past it enough to join her after Horizon...guess we'll never know...unless we go to an alternate universe.lol

Never was a fan "I didn't tell you because I wanted to protect you":

1) it sounds like the person who have knowledge thinks that s/he's better / wiser / calmer than the one that left in the dark. Not knowing person can think and feel as well.
Ingame situation: what reason Anderson has to think that VS, who always were "duty comes first", will abandon the Alliance for Shepard AND Cerberus?

2) Villain can play this game as well.
Ingame situation: TIM might (and for some playthroughs he did) turn the situation into such where shocked VS alienates Shepard from Alliance. Not exactly the goal Anderson was pursuing.

3) Sudden revelation provides much more powerful impact than cautious explanation
Ingame situation: Kaidan's implant needs attention, sure - but if Anderson carefully explain what's going on, giving time to get used to situation and having a brigade of medics nearby, it would be much safer than random encounter with Shepard who-knows-where.

But maybe that's just me - I've always insisted on "people should have full knowledge".


My own idea on "why Anderson did this" is "because he's only human". He's not very good at politics while being forced into it, he's the rare person who believes in Reapers, human colonies are abducted, Shepard is rumoured to return; Shepard is rumoured to work for Cerberus; Cerberus does things on its own with Ascension; Kahlee is involved, too... and on top of that, Alenko asks question. It might be that Anderson just pushed back this one problem until "more info will be available - for now I can't confirm or deny anything (,despite Shepard was here)" - and it was misstep. Well, s**t happens.

[sesheta255]

I'm not trusting Anderson or Hackett fully at this point, both of them set Shepard up to a degree. I think they have more info on Cerberus and whats going on than they let on, especially Hackett. It may be just me but I was always under the impression that the Cerberus guy Anderson was meeting in the LotSB dlc might have been someone from the Normandy's crew. And it would be just plain stupid if the Alliance didn't have moles in Cerberus, but then I don't fully believe that the Alliance doesn't have fingers in the Cerberus pie either. I think it was originally claimed to have 'gone rogue' so that the Alliance could do questionable experiments etc and not get in trouble with the council.  Both anderson and Hackett were pretty quick to contact Shepard once she/he got the new Normandy but I guess they thought that shepard could take care of the collector problem and it wasn't really costing the Alliance anything and they aren't really welcome out in the Terminus systems, or their presence there is restricted by the council.

Modifié par sesheta255, 12 décembre 2011 - 09:45 .

[Fault Girl]

My Shepard only trusts them to a small degree. She knows there are events happening behind closed doors.

She still trusts Kaidan, but she's just kinda well not angry but annoyed with him. But she's also annoyed at herself and with everyone. Hell Joker still need's to say sorry. Hmph

Or maybe it's because shes gotta wait to march to save the galaxy? Haha.

[Ottemis]

I agree wholeheartedly with Red.

Aside from that I believe that the relationship between them deserves more attention then what little Shep could spare to give it at the moment of waking up and through the ****storm of events in ME2.
The situation with her having been dead for 2 years while he was left alone, a relationship that developed in a very unlikely and troubled time. Him needing to cope with that loss, not having a grave to really visit (no body), not having been able to tell her he loved her when they were still together.

He would logically be pissed, he would be lead by emotions and lash out at Horizon.
All logical, but also logical that she left it, that she didn't pick that up in a time where she most definately could not give it and him the attention he deserves.
The galaxy comes first, and with the realization that the situation is actually THAT dire, Kai will turn round and give it more thought. He'll need this time.

After two years Kai's reactions and emotions are heavy, and strong, and on a plane that we (shepard) can't fully comprehend, control or anticipate. Nothing you can say will change the fact that Kai needs time to process.
You can't be there to hold his hand and engage him on it, you are left to trust that he will think about it and turn around with time.

Modifié par Ottemis, 12 décembre 2011 - 09:49 .

[Soccerchic6]

Well, after EDI is "released", she mentions that some higher-ups in the Alliance fund Cerberus...or something to that extent. So the Alliance is not all innocent here. They claim Cerberus went "rogue", but did they ever really separate from the Alliance?

At this point, my Shep definitely doesn't trust Cerberus and is very, very iffy about the Alliance. I'm still on the fence about Anderson and Hackett. Hackett only uses Shep whenever he needs something done. As for Anderson, I'd like to believe that he's a "good guy" in all this mess. That the reason he's doing everything is to help Shepard and not hinder her/him.

[MICHELLE7]

mineralica wrote...

Ingame situation: what reason Anderson has to think that VS, who always were "duty comes first", will abandon the Alliance for Shepard AND Cerberus?

The VS (and Anderson as well) have gone against orders before...they stole the Normandy to go to Ilos. Their duty seemed to be more about stopping Saren(saving the galaxy) than a duty to the Alliance at that point. Shepard's in a similat situation with the Collectors (saving humanity this time). I think there is a presidence even in game for him to believe that the VS might bolt to help Shepard for a greater cause.

But like I said my view point in the previous post is just my own speculation...as for the actual game...I wonder if we'll ever know...they have so much to cover in this final game I wonder if they would even take the time to go back and rehash it.

[solvill]

I don't really like to dwell on horizon thing, it's just crap writing devs wanted shep and vs situation/relationship at this point ( accusation, distrust) and spend 5 minutes on 3 minutes cameo. however u will look at this nothing make sense. What makes me angry is sometimes ppl reaction specially the one who didn't play ME1 or read books or just read mass effect wiki , i just loath cerberus ( which is a big part why i don't like ME2) and all ppl going that VS dare call them a traitor or how cerberus is good makes me angry and now they will play ME3 where VS doesn't trust them ( or smth similar but i don't think they forget about Horizon or Shep working with Cerberus) do you really think they will make any effort to try to understand them?? I would really like if the devs could made them justice in ME2 so new folks would see the characters we fell in love with
I don't like that the devs didn't spend 5 more minuts on making the diffrent scene for romances and non-romances when i met Kaidan with my mShep he said the same things ( well less angry and without i Loved you part) which was quite weird he could be angry i understand that but he should keep his cool or dunno just not the same lines and every Shep should received a letter just diffrent

[MICHELLE7]

meonlyred wrote...

My Shepard doesn't contact Kaidan because she doesn't know what he has been up to. Its been two flipping years. He could be married and had kids. He could be be on some important mission (which he was). He could have even retired from the Alliance. Shepard doesn't know. She didn't feel it was her place to jump back into his life and make him feel obligated to be bound in a relationship with her after two long years. It might have only been a short time for her but she realized its been a long time for him.

She doesn't respawn to his message because she doesn't want to promise him anything she can't deliver. She still loves him and cares deeply for him but she thinks their relationship is over. She also understands that her own personal desires come second to saving the galaxy.

This is kind of the reasoning I had in the back of my head for why she greets him so strangely...I had to come up with something...she just seemed so unenthusiastic not like "Garrus how ya been!" or "Tali it's really me". I'm paraphrazing...can't remember the exact words.

I saw my Femshep as being afraid of finding him even though she wanted to because she still loved him...she was afraid to find out that he had moved on...that he didn't love her anymore. I guess I saw my Femshep as protecting herself from getting hurt as much as she might have been protecting him from "re-opening old wounds" Really she was kind of in a situation where there was no perfect answer. Whatever happened...if she waited or sought him out there was probably going to be pain.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:33 .

[meonlyred]

There is no one else who goes up to bat for Shepard like Hackett and Anderson. Shepard joins Cerberus and still Anderson helps her get her Spectre status back. In LotSB Hackett denies an Alliance officer who wants to arrest and interrogate Shepard. Hackett trusts Shepard on this important mission which she ultimately fails and ends up killing over 300k people. And he is still willing to help Shepard through the trial.

They can't completely support a Cerberus affiliate. They are Alliance officers!

[Ottemis]

meonlyred wrote...

There is no one else who goes up to bat for Shepard like Hackett and Anderson. Shepard joins Cerberus and still Anderson helps her get her Spectre status back. In LotSB Hackett denies an Alliance officer who wants to arrest and interrogate Shepard. Hackett trusts Shepard on this important mission which she ultimately fails and ends up killing over 300k people. And he is still willing to help Shepard through the trial.

They can't completely support a Cerberus affiliate. They are Alliance officers!

QFT
They never question Shep.
If they'd jepordize their position in the Alliance, they'd lose the advantages and power tied to the position, rendering them useless in helping Shep. What's the point?

Modifié par Ottemis, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:32 .

[vulpesetuva]

mineralica wrote...

Never was a fan "I didn't tell you because I wanted to protect you":

^This.

Kaidan's a grown-ass man, and if he's so mentally fragile or weak-willed that Anderson thinks he needs his feelings protected or has worries about him abandoning his duties, he has no business getting promoted to high-ranking officer and being sent on important Council/Alliance missions in the first place. As for Shep not being able to contact Kaidan... I can't think it'd really be any better for Kaidan's psyche to find out Shep died a second time, with no warning of the risk Shep was taking, after parting on such bad terms. But whatever, BW did way too much railroading in ME2.

I still think BW should have written it so that, depending on whether the player has checked in with Anderson and asked about the VS, you either get (A) the scene as is, so that people who dislike the VS or feel like they need an excuse to move on to a new LI can have the angry reunion, or get ( a much calmer version where the VS has had Anderson explain that Shep's back, working with Cerberus, the VS isn't happy about that association but they'll trust Anderson's judgment and sorry, they've got their own mission they can't abandon but be careful. There, something for everyone that still keeps the VS logically out the game.

As for Alliance/Cerberus connections.. First time I saw the Anderson SB vid, I thought it was Kenneth he was talking to, but I don't think it really looks like him anymore. I do still believe it's an Alliance spy, Anderson seems pretty genuine in his dislike for Cerberus, especially given his history. And I'd to think that around the time the Alliance realizes Cerberus has been  turning humans into husks and injecting people with thresher maw poison, Cerberus went from sanctioned black ops to completely rogue. I do play most of my Sheps, while recognizing it's far from perfect or free of corruption, as pretty much "my country, right or wrong" types when it comes to the Alliance.

TL;DR, have a Shoko Kaidan:

[MICHELLE7]

vulpesetuva wrote...

I still think BW should have written it so that, depending on whether the player has checked in with Anderson and asked about the VS, you either get (A) the scene as is, so that people who dislike the VS or feel like they need an excuse to move on to a new LI can have the angry reunion, or get ( a much calmer version where the VS has had Anderson explain that Shep's back, working with Cerberus, the VS isn't happy about that association but they'll trust Anderson's judgment and sorry, they've got their own mission they can't abandon but be careful. There, something for everyone that still keeps the VS logically out the game.

Really wish they had done this.

Only You by Jho

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:39 .